Nascar Hits a Wall as $4 Gas Makes Weekend Campouts Too Costly for Fans

[Purveyor]

By Gene Laverty

July 9 (Bloomberg) -- Allan Peer, a Southerner, a stock-car fan and an avowed enemy of drivers Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson, has attended 11 straight Nascar races at Richmond International Raceway dating back to 2003.

The streak may soon end as $4 gasoline takes a toll on fans, many of whom travel to races in fuel-guzzling recreational vehicles.

``It's pretty expensive,'' said Peer while attending a race in May. He has made the 70-mile (113-kilometer) trip to the Virginia track twice annually. ``I might just make it to one race this year,'' skipping Nascar's return to Richmond in September, he said.

The stock-car racing league and the more than 4 million fans who attend events at 22 tracks across the U.S. are feeling the pinch of the slowing economy, record gasoline prices and a jump in the cost of living. Peer, 34, tending to hot dogs on a grill and slugging back a cold Budweiser at the Virginia speedway, was without the company of two friends who usually make the trip.

Ever since Bill France loaded his family and gear into a car for the trek to Daytona Beach, Florida, in the 1930s, where he started the biggest U.S. auto-racing empire, stock-car events have depended on fans driving to the tracks and camping out.

Now, after gasoline prices have increased 39 percent in the past year and pushed the cost of filling a recreational vehicle tank as high as $500, more fans are staying home. Ticket revenue at Speedway Motorsports Inc.'s Las Vegas, Atlanta and Bristol, Tennessee, tracks declined 5.1 percent in the first quarter.

MORE...

BLOOMBERG: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a_3wbO7weiC4&refer=us

[MadHound]

1. Something positive today

If this continues, perhaps NASCAR will finally drift back into the fringe sport status it deserves.

[Eagles53]

4. What is wrong with Nascar?

I happen to find it entertaining. I don't think it is a sport that requires true athletic ability, but it is still competitive and interesting. See a race in person and many of you may have a different view.

[snooper2]

8. You know...the street mod races are better, I.E. Koni ,. etc

Real cars normal people drive, slightly modified...

And they are able to make right hand turns and drive when it starts raining a little :rofl:

[fla nocount]

9. It's just not the same with a shower and a shave. n/t

[mainegreen]

14. Nothing.

People just like to pick on it because of some of the people who enjoy it.

Just ignore those posts.

[Indenturedebtor]

16. No I pick on it because I think it's a very wasteful game

Boohoo people can't drive their mobile homes that get 2 mpg across the country to watch some other people drive around in a circle at .00000003 mpg for 12 hours straight.

Good riddance.

[Fumesucker]

19. Bzzzzttt . Wrong

NASCAR racers can actually exceed 5 mpg at 180 plus mph..

The are almost certainly more efficient at converting fuel into mechanical energy than your own car.

And no, I'm not a NASCAR fan, never watched more than a few minutes of a race on TV, I enjoy road racing, particularly motorcycles.

[Javaman]

30. Bzzzttt. Wrong.

You fail to take into account the 100 thousand plus fans that attend each event. And the huge RV city that forms in the infield. It takes gas to get these vehicles to each and every event.

[Fumesucker]

36. The post I was referring to did not mention the fans..

Only the race cars.

And a single Pro football, baseball or hockey team flying to a game uses more fuel than all the NASCAR racers combined.

[Threedifferentones]

95. Bzzzzt

you probably do something wasteful for fun or convenience. Ever flown on a plane? Transportation is not what we use most fossil fuels for anyway. There are so few stock cars compared to all the other things we do the waste is not more significant than a huge number of things. Why bitch about this one? That's an awfully high horse you are on...

[Javaman]

98. bzzzt!

I bitch about fossil fuels period. I don't care for people who defend their use.

Oh and before you decide to caste the "oh you don't use fossil fuels????" argument, I get my home power from wind, I bike to work and get my food from a farmers market.

so yes, I make a true effort not to use fossil fuels. Just like everyone should.

[girl gone mad]

104. I hope you don't watch movies, either.

Ever been on a film set? Even small budget films these days use tons of fossil fuels.

[Fumesucker]

105. Perhaps you can point to posts where you have criticized *other* professional sports?

For wasting fossil fuel..

I'll be awaiting your reply with bated breath.

[Javaman]

119. I was responding to the OP.

Not you.

And just because I haven't criticized in the past on DU doesn't mean I haven't on other sites and forums.

I have a life outside of DU, unlike yourself.

I maintain what I say, but if you want to get down to it, all nighttime sports are a waste of energy. Period.

And another thing, rather than attack myself, someone who actually practices what they preach, what have you done lately?

Good lord, get a grip. Nascar isn't the holy grail for christ sakes.

[Fumesucker]

135. You replied directly to my post

And you have no way of knowing what sort of a life I have outside of DU.

[Javaman]

139. as you don't of I.

because of your bizarre out look and really marginalized sense of self, I will now block you.

have a truly wonderful day.

I wait for your witty retort, not.

tool.

[Fumesucker]

144. LOL... Insults, the true sign of a winning argument....

:sarcasm:

[bkcc]

102. Forgive my ignorance on this one.

I have very little knowledge of the mechanics of auto racing, but 5 mpg doesn't seem like it's very good gas mileage...especially when you're going 500 miles total. Am I missing something?

No sarcasm intended at all in this post. I'm just curious about how this works.

[Fumesucker]

107. Aerodynamic drag varies with the square of the velocity..

So if you had a car that was as fuel efficient as a NASCAR racer, it would get somewhere around 20 mpg at over 90 mph and 80 mpg at over 45 mph.

There aren't all that many cars the size of a NASCAR racer that get 80 mpg at 45 plus, that's well up into Prius territory as driven by an experience hypermiler.

In racing you don't get time out for fuel stops, the fewer times you have to stop for fuel the more likely you are to win the race, so there is a very strong incentive for the engine builders to make the engines not only powerful but efficient as well.

[bkcc]

120. Thanks for the response.

So you mean that they are more fuel-efficient than the standard engine, but driving at the high speeds they do causes the engines to get low mileage per gallon. Am I understanding correctly?

[Fumesucker]

136. You have grasped the essence of it.. n/t

[jmowreader]

113. And it's a bigger car!

Most of the people on this board have one-ton cars. A NASCAR Sprint Cup car weighs 3200 lbs with no driver, or 3400 with one. Plus it's got a huge engine.

That's SUV territory.

[mainegreen]

24. Many sports are wasteful,

Just in different ways and using different resources. However, the impact of these sports use of resources compared to societies use in general is basically nil.

[Indenturedebtor]

32. Yes and the impact of SUVs and jet planes is nil compared to societies use in general

So is AC, wasting food, and so on.

[mainegreen]

40. I highly doubt AC would count as nil.

Mere AC use has caused brownouts.

And your right, I wouldn't single out SUVs. The state of MPG for almost all our vehicles on the road today, SUV or car is terrible.
They all need to be brought up. And that would have a significant effect.

[Indenturedebtor]

64. Stop skirting the point :P

Are there any sports that expend more of our precious energy and more thoroughly pollute our precious planet?

Now when sailboat racing takes a dive I'd be sad even though I don't watch it and I'm non too impressed with the majority of the super-rich who participate.

[mainegreen]

80. All factored in NASCAR isn't even at the top.

You've just got an ax to grind.
Hell, I hate NASCAR, but I don't hold any illusions about how horrible it is or how NASCAR is ruining the environment or America or any such crap.

But you asked for an example, so I'll just pick the first one off the top of my head:

Golf.


Golf beats NASCAR hands down for total environmental degradation. By at least an order or two of magnitude.



I win.

[MrCoffee]

117. Ever seen a golf course?

[Leopolds Ghost]

76. As long as people oppose spending serious money on mass transit it won't matter.

VMT has closely tracked improvements in fuel efficiency. If you look at overall cost of fuel per person per year you'd find it has gone up slightly. People using the same amount of fuel to drive more and farther -- because they oppose walking more than one block. Literally. Including most Democrats. And no rapid rail mass transit means they oppose it for other people as well.

IMO gas should BE for special occasions. Like NASCAR.

Not for commuting to work or going 4 blocks to the store.

[SmileyRose]

33. How is it any more wasteful than any other professional game?

If it was not cost effective the sponsors would bail, but in fact, more than one of these tracks generates more revenue annually that all other professional sport teams in the area combined.

As far as environmental issue - With baseball you have, what 180 games? So firing up how many stadiums 180 times? all the toilets flushing, energy for all the food sold, drive all those people there, transporting teams, water and chemicals to maintain the grass, maintenance on all those stadiums. With racing you have less than 20 tracks, 44 races total (each weekend has 2 races at the same track)

Just thinking about the numbers, it's highly probably MLB burns up more fuel and produces many more overall pollutants than NASCAR.

And we won't even start on soccer worldwide..............

[DS1]

71. truck pulls and drag racing

[LanternWaste]

44. I imagine that the money, time, effort and resources wasted...

"No I pick on it because I think it's a very wasteful game"

I imagine that the money, time, effort, and resources wasted on video games per year far exceeds that wasted on NASCAR. So, unless I'm missing a precise and relevant difference, I can assume you pick on people who play Grand Theft Auto or any other video game also, yes?

[Indenturedebtor]

65. I would be utterly shocked if that were the case.

But were it so, then yes I would.

[MadHound]

15. Actually I've done more than that,

I've driven stock cars at high speeds, and if you don't think muscling a two ton machine around a track at high speed, in high heat, for a few hours isn't athletic, well. . .

That aside, I find NASCAR in the stands and on television to be boring as hell, a bunch of cars going around the track while the fans in the stands wait with baited breath for a crash. Rather creepy and morbid if you ask me. If I were to do NASCAR again, it would only be down in the pit. I've always liked automotive mechanics.

Plus I'm having increasing ethical problems with the amount of gas used surrounding this sport, and the amount of pollution created. Originally, the track and the races weren't for entertaining the masses, they were to test out new car designs, new engines, etc. etc. But now they've just become entertainment fodder and no incentive for improving the cars. I would love to see NASCAR start going in for non-gas powered races, using hybrids, electric, fuel cells, biofuels, etc. etc. Start using NASCAR and other automotive races for the purpose that they were originally created for, to advance automotive science.

But simply sitting, either in the stands or at home, and watching cars run around an oval, sorry, but that's boring as hell to me and the less airtime devoted to it, the better.

[bullwinkle428]

47. Hybrid technology has been mandated for Formula 1 by 2013

http://gas2.org/2008/04/22/formula-1-racing-to-go-hybrid-from-2009-2013/

[dysfunctional press]

17. seeing a race in person is what turned me off it most...

i was right down by the track- it was LOUD, HOT, and the smell was nauseating.
it gave me one of the worst headaches of my life.

[snooper2]

20. "it was LOUD, HOT, and the smell was nauseating."

Those are the exact reasons I go to a local drag strip... :rofl:

[SteveM]

55. Yeah, and you should have smelled the cars...

I have been to 4 NASCAR races, many dirt-track round 'n' rounds and drag races. There is NOTHING like the omnipresent other-world sound of stock cars getting the green flag on Daytona's high bank. It remains a little frightening, even to a veteran watcher. (In 1970, A.J. Foyt's car blew an engine right in front of the old Barney Oldfield stands where I was sitting -- hood looked like the Alps.)

I think some of the reason for NASCAR's faltering was rapid expansion just before the oil crunch. Folks might want to consider chartering more busses and camping under the stars -- I've done that, too.

[izquierdista]

26. So is a bonfire

Like a dozen or so tanker trucks of gasoline, on fire, lighting up the night. Doesn't require any ability at all, just a match and an idiot who will get close enough to light it.

Wasteful you say? Not any more so than the typical NASCAR event. And people sitting up front can always bring marshmallows!

[Subdivisions]

35. I am a NASCAR fan and you're right. The majority of those who

have never actually been to a race become fans after attending a race - especially if that race is at a super-speedwar of 1 1/2 miles or more.

I have an ex-girlfriend who had never been to a race and always asked me and my friends what we saw that was so exciting about seeing a bunch of cars go around a circle. Then, when Texas Motor Speedway opened, we all went to the first race. She started getting excited on the parade laps and when they hit the throttles coming to the start line, she was the first. out of 250.000 people, up on her feet screaming!

After that, she learned the strategies, car numbers, and drivers and was just as knowledgable about the sport as we were.

[Skittles]

134. I've been

I will never go again :thumbsdown:

[onehandle]

21. It's a sport? nt

[SteveM]

56. Yes.

[leftchick]

27. I agree

I can not think of a bigger waste of energy, and all to entertain that crowd.

[cherokeeprogressive]

34. "that crowd". What fucking arrogance.

So, anyone who enjoys motorsports in the form of NASCAR is lower than you. Does that include this degreed veteran?

Check that. I don't want to know.

[leftchick]

41. the majority of 'that crowd'

sorry I was not more clear. I was forced to attend a race for business a few years ago and was appalled at the drunken, lewd, boorish, misogynistic and disgusting behavior exhibited by the majority sitting and screaming around me. "Go Darryl", "Show me your tits", etc.!!!!


:puke:

[Subdivisions]

49. "That" crowd also happens to be poplulated by whole families,

with kids and moms and dads who are NOT, I assure you, drunken, lewd, boorish, misogynistic nor do they exhibit disgusting behavior.

Furthermore, THAT crowd includes thousands upon thousands of people who ARE NOT drunken, lewd, boorish, misogynistic nor do they exhibit disgusting behavior. There are, however, thousands upon thousands of people in THAT crowd that contribute and volunteer in their communities. There are thousands who are apparently enough like you that they own businesses, their own homes, SUVs, boats, motorhomes, golf carts and country club memberships, and much more of the things that would bring them into THAT crowd YOU inhabit.

Your blanket characterizations are insulting and elitist.

[leftchick]

54. I said the majority that I have seen

are you touchy or what? :crazy:

[Subdivisions]

59. You made a blanket statement. Touchy? Actually, I could give a

shit about what you think about NASCAR. Has no bearing on me whatsoever. But you are the one who said "I can not think of a bigger waste of energy, and all to entertain that crowd." and then followed it up by saying that you are "appalled at the drunken, lewd, boorish, misogynistic and disgusting behavior exhibited by the majority sitting and screaming around me. "Go Darryl", "Show me your tits", etc.!!!!" I think that deserves some sort of response.

[leftchick]

75. my my

you are touchy. I apologized for my initial generalization and qualified my remark. I stand by my observations and they are hardly unique.

here are some examples.....






I also forgot the standard confederate flag displays all over the campsites....







yeah! A swell place to take the kids. :eyes:

[SteveM]

60. I've been to several races. Saw very little of what you experienced. (nt)

[Subdivisions]

48. wrong place. n/t

[LanternWaste]

39. I can-- video games.

"I can not think of a bigger waste of energy"

I can-- video games. Billions and billions of dollars spent worldwide on video games each year, all to entertain *that* crowd.


Seriously though, each little bit of entertainment we indulge ourselves with is a waste of time, energy and resource-- it's simply that we've learned to justify to ourselves why our own particular indulgence isn't a waste while everyone else's is.

[JackRiddler]

121. What's the gas mileage on a Wiii?

Caveat: If you consider it carefully, you may be able to come up with a figure for total energy consumption (absolute? per capita? per hour of play time?) and environmental impact involved in producing, operating and disposing of Wii consoles, end-to-end, that shows it to be, maybe not as outrageous a waste as having 100,000 people drive SUVs to congregate and be assaulted by noise and gas as they watch race cars burn a zillion gallons going around in a circle for a billion and a half hours (subjective time, sorry, results may vary), but an outrageous waste nevertheless.

[LanternWaste]

137. Well, that's partially the point I was alluding to

"...environmental impact involved in producing, operating and disposing of Wii consoles"

Well, that's partially the point I was alluding to. A cost-benefit analysis illustrating that more eco-waste is generated by the game consumer worldwide than NASCAR world wide. Just about entertainment or sport can be considered a "waste" by one person or another.

I wouldn't be surprised if more money is spent on gas going to movies by America throughout the year than is spent on NASCAR. Without justifications and subjective perceptions, who's to say that's not an outrageous waste also? The final benefit is the same-- simple entertainment.

[wuushew]

130. Nintendo appears to be getting ever smaller and more efficient

I don't buy your argument.

[LanternWaste]

138. As I said, we'll all justify our own "righteous" form of entertainment

As I said, we'll all justify our own "righteous" form of entertainment.

But in the end, w/o benefit of a comprehensive cost-benefit analysis, who's to say that the total sum of wasted eco-sources by the gaming industry-- its production and manufacture, its packaging, its shipping, its distribution, the gas we waste going to make the purchase, etc. is larger or smaller than that of NASCAR.

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MindPilot]

97. Couldn't have said it better myself. n/t

[JackRiddler]

122. Well, maybe you couldn't have, but now you probably can.

Whatever it was. ;)

[SteveM]

51. Auto racing is biggest spectator sport in U.S. Has been for generations (nt)

[JackRiddler]

123. Lies, damned lies, statistics.

That's NASCAR PR. The TV ratings, absolute paid-attendance figures, relative name recognition of teams and stars among non-fans, and sales of gear all say otherwise.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_professional_sports_in_the_US_rank_in_popularity

"Popularity" could be interpreted in a number of ways.
It could be the number of fans. If so, what qualifies someone as a fan? You might measure popularity by TV and radio audience ratings, i.e. how many follow the games, or how many people attend the games, via ticket sales stats. But these wouldn't be perfect gauges of popularity. Stadiums are different sizes, and the potential markets are different sizes. The best method of measuring popularity might be to survey people and find out how they rank spectator sports relative to each other.

According to ESPN's survey:

Football was first.

Baseball was second.

Basketball was third.

Those were followed by college football, college basketball, then NASCAR, which had something like 2.2 percent of the population. NASCAR is the biggest sport in certain areas, e.g. in Daytona and Alabama.

Notwithstanding that NASCAR is a technological display requiring exertion and strategy on the part of the drivers but no more a "sport" than being an astronaut.

[SteveM]

124. But if it's those damned live spectators, it's NASCAR...

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_ten_most_popular_sports_in_the_United_States

I'm not sure what you mean by "sport." Some say the terms is a corruption of the Spanish, having to do with diversions sailors might find in a "port." Hence, billiards is a "sport." Games like poker or at your keyboard? I don't know. But car racing is definitely a sport in my mind.

[JackRiddler]

129. Well, it involves full-body athletic skill, anyway.

[SteveM]

141. True. Gone are the beer-gut drivers of old. (nt)

[JackRiddler]

132. Playing with the numbers?

Your link is on the same site, however unlike mine it does not cite a source for the claims, or even link to the wikipedia article it says it's from (as though that's a source).

"Beginning as regional entertainment in the Southeastern U.S., NASCAR has grown to become the second most popular professional spectator sport in terms of television ratings inside the U.S., ranking behind only the National Football League."

This is presumably based on the skewed NASCAR claims stacking their much more infrequent big events up against baseball regular season games only, or comparing network broadcasts to local stations.

No less an AWESOME authority than USA Today debunked this years ago:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/nascar/2005-09-22-nascar-baseball-ratings-claim_x.htm

"People can say whatever they want to say, but the facts speak for themselves," Brosnan (of MLB) says. "When it comes to network television, baseball is the No. 2 sport."

Brosnan cites research from Nielsen Media, saying in 2004 NASCAR's 26 races televised on NBC and Fox averaged a 5.6 rating; that includes ratings for races in the Chase for the Nextel Cup, the playoff-style championship format introduced last season.

Baseball's 43 Fox telecasts in 2004, including playoffs and the All-Star Game, averaged a 6.9. One ratings point is equivalent to 1% of U.S. TV households.

Beyond that, Brosnan says, if the comparison were expanded to include television audiences for locally televised ballgames, the disparity would be even greater in baseball's favor.

Imagine 162 televised stock car races a year on a local station vs. 162 baseball games. You care to bet which would get the higher average ratings?

Live attendance: NASCAR has no limits on it. What does a ticket cost? That puts the lie to your link's claim that NASCAR "holds 17 of the top 20 attended sporting events in the U.S." If they could fit 200,000 people into a football stadium at triple the price of a NASCAR ticket, the football would still sell out.

Baseball breaks attendance records and gets fatter TV contracts every year. Teams start their own networks. Anything comparable in stock cars?

When NASCAR events are selling out 60,000 tickets to playoff games at $100 and up, let me know.

Or when, like football, they're getting Dallas residents to shell out tens of thousands on "seating rights" for NASCAR races, before they even get to buy a ticket. Not that I like the naked capitalism either way, but this shows the popularity of baseball and football is both more widespread and has a larger core of fanatics.

[SteveM]

140. I dealt with "live" spectators, not T.V. and ticket cost...

Is there a sporting even which draws more to its facility than the Daytona 500? Yes. The Indy 500.

[JackRiddler]

142. Ticket cost is a factor in determining attendance, no?

I have no idea. For all I know, you'll tell me it's $150 - $2500 to attend.

[SteveM]

143. Do you have a quarrel with the attendance data or the price of tickets? (nt)

[JackRiddler]

146. Never mind.

[One_Life_To_Give]

2. Bristol Sprint Cup tickets still by lottery

Bristol's overall revenue may be off. But they still have drawings for who can get the priviledge oif buying tickets for next years Sprint Cup races.

[MindPilot]

3. Oboy! Here come all the "racing is not a sport" assholes!!

I was going to post that tennis is not a sport in one of the Wimbledon threads, but I'm not that much of a self-righteous prick.

[Ian David]

7. Golf is not a sport. Unless you combine it with NASCAR.

The 18th hole should be in the middle of a NASCAR track, while a race is going on.

In order to putt into the hole, you have to cross the track alive.

[Merlot]

10. Hey, that I'd watch!

[Buns_of_Fire]

131. And here I thought my idea for "Full-Contact Baseball" would be violent!

:evilgrin:

[Iggo]

28. Don't sell yerself short.

:hi:

[Submariner]

5. Nascar racing is for pussies

An oval flat track. Boring...boring...boring..

Now this is spectator sport racing!

[Fumesucker]

23. Strongly agree n/t

[One_Life_To_Give]

46. Get a Real Motorsport

This boring crap of running on a surface that doesn't move.

Powerboat Racing is the Real Deal!

[TheMightyFavog]

103. Powerboat racing, Pah!

Red Bull Air Race World Series FTW!



I had the chance to go see the race in London last year, but tickets were way too expensive.

[Ian David]

6. NASCAR Fans + Glorious People's Republic of Wal-Mart Shoppers = Repuke Base. n/t

[greenbriar]

11. oh really

I happen to like nascar. Jeff Gordon to be specific


and I certainly am NOT a repuke

[Ian David]

12. Not ALL NASCAR fans are.

But maybe you're wondering why every Zogby poll asks if you shop at Wal-Mart or are a NASCAR fan.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

25. Hmm...

You do realize that it's mainly the poor and working class who shop at Wal-Mart, don't you? Surely you're not being an elitist and looking down on them, are you?

[Ian David]

29. No.

There are other places to buy cheap stuff that are less-evil than Wal-Mart.

Costco.

Target.

The Internet.

[Selatius]

42. Costcos and Targets are more often located in metro areas anyway, where urban poor/working class liv

Wal-Marts typically dominate the countryside outside of metropolitan areas. They have trouble penetrating urban cores because of lack of space, antipathy towards the Wal-Mart reputation of union-smashing/poor treatment of workers, and stiff competition from multiple competitors.

[Clark2008]

74. There's no Costco within 300 miles of me, fwiw.

[RT Atlanta]

13. I used to like it, but not any more

It's turned into pro-rasslin' on wheels in my opinion.

[SteveM]

62. And much of it used to be "our" base. Wonder why they left (nt)

[Le Taz Hot]

72. Bravo!

Excellent response.

[Ian David]

79. NASCAR uses leaded gasoline. n/t

[SteveM]

83. If they do, they should change to non-leaded (nt)

[A HERETIC I AM]

89. According to this article, they did.

http://nascar.about.com/od/cars/a/unleaded08.htm

[Ian David]

91. March 9, 2007: NASCAR finally switches to UNLeaded by 2008

March 9, 2007: NASCAR finally switches to UNLeaded

I have two articles here. They are the similar but they both relate to the post about NASCAR’s switch to ethanol. Sense the beginning NASCAR used leaded gasoline and has only recently decided to make the switch to unleaded gasoline. A decision was made in Jan. of 2005 to make the switch by 2008, but it came much early at the end of February 2007 at the California motor speedway.

The initial announcement to switch came few days after Clean Air Watch urged the Environmental Protection Agency to begin checking for toxic lead in the air at NASCAR races. “NASCAR traditionally has been exempt from provisions of the Clean Air Act of 1970, which mandated use of unleaded fuel in automobiles. But that did not mean that NASCAR was comfortable with its use of leaded gas.” In recent years NASCAR has been even more concerned with the problems that leaded gas causes, as there has been an increase in the death from cancer among retired drivers, including the famous Benny Parsons. This is another case where organizations don’t worry about problems before it gets too late and serious problems begin to arise like health implications.

“By permitting the continued use of lead, your organization may be putting millions of spectators and nearby residents at unnecessary risk of suffering serious health effects, according to the US Environmental Protection Agency,” O’Donnell wrote. “Because of the clear public health threat, lead is being eliminated from gasoline throughout most of the world.” NASCAR has been working on safe fuel alternatives. Since there was a lot of engine problems at the race where leaded gas was used, NASCAR will be research other forms of fuel more intensively such as ethanol, which is discussed in the previous post.

More:
http://environmentalgeography.wordpress.com/2007/03/09/nascar-finally-switches-to-unleaded/


Didn't Bush's approval rating start to plummet right around March 2007?

[SteveM]

93. So noted. (nt)

[MrCoffee]

118. Wow.

Best. Response. Ever.

[Political Heretic]

68. God, could you make bigger dickish generalizations?

I LOVE auto racing.

Screw you.

[Ian David]

78. I COULD make bigger dickish generaliztions...

But I'd have to use really small words for your tiny-little NASCAR-fan mind to understand.




I'm kidding.


Relax, dude.

[SeattleGirl]

99. Sorry, but this NASCAR fan bleeds Dem blue, and always has.

Stereotyping people is so stupid.

But where NASCAR is concerned, seems there are a ton of DUers who do exactly that. :eyes:

[Ian David]

108. Tell that to Zogby. n/t

[tularetom]

18. Let's see - 40 cars 500 miles 5 miles to the gallon fuel consumption

that's 4000 gallons of gas used just by the competitors on race day. Yeah that's something we should be encouraging while we all whine about $4 a gallon gas.

[krispos42]

38. And compared to the private jets used to fly around NFL teams?

They tried that argument back in the 70's during the oil crisis. Except that the charter jets the teams fly around in use more fuel each than an entire NASCAR race. A midsize airliner line a 757 holds over 11,000 gallons of fuel, and probably burns 8 or 9 thousand of them on a cross-country flight.

Each way.

[tularetom]

52. WTF do NFL teams have to do with anything?

Last time I looked the topic of this thread was nascar. I agree with you about flying the teams on charter flights. Jet fuel costs less than gasoline to distill but still it's a waste of scarce resources.

[Fumesucker]

53. Jet fuel and diesel are remarkably similar..

In fact diesel engines can often run on jet fuel.

How much is diesel these days?

[A HERETIC I AM]

86. They are similar but jet fuel is basically Kerosene, not Diesel. n/t

[Fumesucker]

106. Kerosine is more expensive than gas.. n/t

[SCBeeland]

58. NASCAR's as much a business as it is a sport

And like any other company, they're going to use fuel. Plus, its not like the gas at a gas station is what racing teams even use, they use a specially designed fuel.

[krispos42]

63. The complaint was about wasting fuel for a spectator sport

I'm pointing out that one round trip on a chartered airliner for an NFL team could use up to four times as much fuel as an entire race. And with 16 teams traveling any given week, this travel will use up dozens of times as much fuel as a NASCAR race.


No reason the teams can't fly commercial like the rest of us. Hell, maybe ticket prices would come down with all the money they'd save on airfare.

(yeah, right...)

[Political Heretic]

69. IRL's on ethanol

[Dukkha]

22. It would be more enjoyable if they put random snipers in the stands

then they'd really have a need to drive fast. Like the Tusken Raiders in the pod race.

[EOTE]

57. Poor Quadranero. The guy never stood a chance.

Pod racing seems far more entertaining than NASCAR. I love motorsports in general, but NASCAR is as boring as can be for me. Give me F1 or even IROC any day. Once NASCAR starts throwing in some right hand turns and has cars capable of more than a couple of Gs while cornering, it will be a far more interesting sport.

[Missy Vixen]

31. Obviously, the decline in fan attendance

costs real people real jobs.

I'm not a NASCAR fan, but even I can see that this is not a positive development. One might also muse on the fact that this may be making one of those RV-driving fans wonder what's next.

Julie

[AndyTiedye]

37. Awww

:nopity:

[Mopar151]

43. Geez, whatta bunch of snobs

OK, so I'm a lifelong racer - fan, crew, offical, driver, wrench, car & engine builder. If you don't think that racing requires athleticisim, highly developed skills, and a fair amount of bravery - you just don't know what's goin' on - even in the beater stocks at your local short track.
I'll grant that some of this isn't particularly exciting to watch - But nobody is makin' you watch it! My dirt-racin' buddy Artie calls it "NAPCAR - its' what's on TV while I'm asleep on the couch!" But if Artie has to sleep through the ball game instead - how does that benefit anybody?

[underpants]

45. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[devilgrrl]

50. Nice broad paint brush you got there Mr. Natural

:eyes:

[Mopar151]

81. Look at post #1

Just tryin to match the width and stroke...

[devilgrrl]

84. Why wouldn't he say such a thing? Grand Prix is so way better.

:P

[Political Heretic]

70. DIE HARD fany if Indy Racing

Sorry there are so many snobbish assholes here :( But not everyone is like that!

Next Race Saturday at 6PM Mountain time on ESPN.

http://www.indycar.com/

I am indy! :P

Look, I really personally detest NASCAR, but not because I detest the people who love it. I just don't enjoy stock car racing. Open-wheel all the way.

[cherokeeprogressive]

73. Perfectly reasonable. Hate the game, not the fan.

There aren't many motorsports I don't like. As far as Indy goes, are you old enough to remember when the race was played on a tape delay late on Sunday night? The ONLY reason I was able to stay up that late to watch was because of the Memorial Day holiday on Monday.

[Political Heretic]

87. Hell yes! Sometimes my Dad and I would do that, or sometimes we would listen to it on the radio...

...those are some awesome memories I have of me and my dad.

I'm 31, so I got to see Rick Mears win Four Indies, which was awesome. He was a favorite driver of mine. That is until I "met" (meaning watched) Al Unser Jr. The finish between Scott Goodyear and Little Al at the indy in.... gosh, I think the 90s sometime was the greatest finish in motor racing!! (I think)

These days I'm a big fan of the drivers of Andretti Racing - Kanaan, Danica and Marco. But I love so many of the drivers in the field these days. Grahm Rahal is cool because of the family history. I dislike, but respect Dan Wheldom. Lots of good racers to watch.

[A HERETIC I AM]

90. 1992. .043 seconds. I was there.

Worked for the company that built the engines in both Jr's and Goodyear's cars.

Attended 7 Indy 500's, 6 as a participant and one as a guest of the team owner I worked for (1988 - Kenny Bernstein)

[Political Heretic]

94. YOU LUCKY BASTARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[taterguy]

85. Did you intentionally wait to post so your post # would also be Richard Petty's car #?

:yourock: :yourock: :yourock:

[Political Heretic]

88. LOL that's awesome!! :)

[Swamp Rat]

101. MOPAR Rules!

:hi:

[reflection]

109. Now THAT is a pretty machine.

Where's that drool smilie?

[PfcHammer]

61. prolly, when all's said and done they're gonna be racing

solar golf carts downhill.no way you can justify racing now.

[Mopar151]

82. I would beg to differ

Even at my lowly level, we are developing and testing technology that can save fuel TODAY in some cases, in other casesthe next generation of cars, scooters, or what have you - like low drag wheel bearings, tires and lubricants, safer/lighter/stronger chassis structure, seats and components.. Maybe someday, you'll be lucky enuff to be allowed to use the safer, more comfortable restraint systems that racers have been using since the '50's.
And then there is the Honda point of view - that racing is an invaluable tool for training engineers. So why be a hater?

[SteelPenguin]

66. NASCAR made me stop watching racing

When I was growing up we had lots of different races shown on TV. Indy. Monaco Grand Prix. Etc. Honestly Nascar just bores me. The tracks bore me. Stock cars bore me.

Give me races through cities and interesting locales (like Monaco), or Rally Races, with teams able to use any kind of car they want under say a certain weight and over a certain weight. Make it more interesting.

I'd watch that. Nascar just puts me to sleep. In fairness though, so does golf or baseball these days. All sports I enjoy participating in, but not so much to watch other people do it.

[Political Heretic]

67. IRL for life.

[opihimoimoi]

92. As Energy costs rise....most, if not all, non essential travel will decline...its LOGICAL..

If and when gas reaches $5 to 6 a gal....most rec driving will see a dramitc drop.

We are ignoring the BSA's motto....Be Prepared......

[Fumesucker]

96. Which reminds me of this song...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=758awAebvzI

[opihimoimoi]

100. ROTFLMGO...thanks, very funny...LOL 5X

:toast:

[Fumesucker]

112. Tom Lehrer was a Harvard professor and mathematician

That is far from the only "odd" song he did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f72CTDe4-0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TytGOeiW0aE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhuMLpdnOjY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NOZH0y7VxE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxuLAuVc4qQ

[opihimoimoi]

127. Thanks....the man is clearly gifted...book marked...again...Thank you

[SammyWinstonJack]

110. Returned from the Texas coast yesterday, saw license plates from

as far away as Kentucky and Illinois. Lots from OK and AR, even Arizona. Parking lot was about half full with trucks and SUVs. Driving down, many people were doing well over the 70mph limit. And the hotel was full.

[opihimoimoi]

126. AS gas goes higher...this will change...non essential travel will be minimized

[alarimer]

111. "Camping" just isn't the same without satellite television.

Camping in an RV is NOT CAMPING.

Stupid assholes can't afford to drag their houses with them? Well, buy a tent. Boo hoo hoo.

[Ganja Ninja]

114. Perhaps NASCAR should start an electric car racing series. n/t

[jmowreader]

115. I wonder...

Has anyone bothered to calculate, or even estimate, the Nascar Redneck Tradeoff?

This is how it works: A NASCAR race has 43 drivers in it going around in circles for three hours. While they're doing this, five million rednecks who own two-stroke engines (which are installed in things like watercraft, dirt bikes, weedeaters and chainsaws) are sitting in front of their televisions with cans of beer in their hands cheering for Their Driver to win the race. While all this is going on, the two-stroke engines are NOT running.

Let's say that the five million rednecks own a combined total of six million engines--many people who own personal watercraft and dirt bikes have more than one, and two-stroke engines pollute more than any other kind.

I have this strange feeling that the reduction in environmental impact from all the two-stroke engines that aren't running more than mitigates the impact from the 43 stock car engines that are.

[JMackT]

116. Why all the NASCAR hate?

I will never understand.

NASCAR is one of my favorite sports

[ProfessorGAC]

125. Conveniently Hatable, Or Something

There is an element of resentment of the south in liberal circles because, in fact, the Reagan and Nixon southern strategies actually worked. So, it's easy to paint everyone south of Indianapolis as a dumbass hillrod.

And we know that all dumbass hillrods are into NASCAR, right?

See what i mean?
GAC

[Phillycat]

128. Awww, I feel so sorry for them.

They can't drive their behemoth RV's to a racetrack, clog up traffic for miles, and then run them 24 hours a day? But isn't that one of the BASIC RIGHTS OF AN AMERICAN?? :cry:

[jakefrep]

133. This has been coming for a long time....

and I think it has less to do with gas prices than with greed of the NASCAR tracks when it comes to tickets. Some tracks require you to buy tickets for a whole season worth of races if you want to go to the NASCAR event. I know at least one longtime fan who quit going for this very reason.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the ascendancy of NASCAR has paralleled the decline in the fortunes of the Big 3 carmakers. NASCAR, as it presently exists, with identical car bodies and virtually identical carbureted engies, offers no value in the development of future car models.

[lonestarnot]

145. Tee hee. Waste of gas in more ways than one.

[Pastiche423]

147. Aww...

:applause: