The Democratic Party no longer represents my best interests.

[Subdivisions]

They are complicit in retroactively legalizing the crimes of telecoms while minor street crimes are treated severly and harshly.

The elites break the laws, the Democrats pass legislation to let them off the hook.

I'm appalled and profoundly dissappointed.

[EFerrari]

1. Would you consider rewording that so this isn't locked and we can talk

about what just happened? Please?

[robinlynne]

4. SF. If they lock it, it would be proof that the OP is correct, more of what the

Senate just did. i think the mods will not lock this discussion. this is important.

[EFerrari]

6. Skinner's house, Skinner's rules. I just wanted us to be able to talk.

that's all. :pals:

[Subdivisions]

8. I reworded it. But I'm also giving up on voting and begging

for representation. The do whatever they want with our votes and they ignore our wishes while reaching into our pockets and taking our hard-earned money to do with what they please. Then when I protest, they marginalize me as a lunatic.

I've had it. It's time for action. Patrick Henry style action.

[EFerrari]

10. Thanks. And I hear you. I couldn't even call Pelosi on this --

that's how far I've come from the person who was happy she was Speaker all that time ago.

I'm so mad.

[Subdivisions]

19. EVERY LAST SINGLE THING I have called them on has gone

against me.

That's it! I've had enough!

[EFerrari]

21. I know. n/t

[philly_bob]

30. The sadness in that little two word reply... "I know." Yeah. n/t

[Ichingcarpenter]

29. We need a multi party system with coalitions

My representative and one senator voted how I wanted them to, however
my other Democratic Senator her highness queen Feinstein did not.

There something fundamental wrong with our two - party system.

[EFerrari]

31. I'm trying to hold onto the idea that before Howard took over at DNC,

there was virtually no DNC network in California. And we got out of the habit of finding ways to influence our reps.

We're starting from scratch and we better get our shit together because the corporate opposition,no matter their affiliation, have been serious as a heart attack all this time.

It may be the two party system but for most of us, it was the no party system because there was no way to engage at the state level in national politics.

[robinlynne]

85. We (PDA) went to Feinstein's office many times. We took hundreds of signatures

against FISA.

[RFKJrNews]

94. You know what they say about "taxation without representation"

It's TYRANNY!

The answer to 1984 is 1776. Wake up, friends.

[villager]

2. actually, they really haven't since the Reagan era...

n/t

[EFerrari]

13. What was the trigger? I was bringing up small kids

and not paying attention.

[Greyhound]

74. One example was Ted Kennedy ushering the Raygun agenda through the Democratically controlled Senate.

He's done much good, but that was just shameless.

[EFerrari]

77. Oh, cr@p. I missed that whole thing.

How did he do that? :(

[hfojvt]

81. you got that wrong

Reagan swept the Senate in 1980, it was Republican controlled

96th Congress (1979-1981)

Majority Party: Democrat (58 seats)

Minority Party: Republican (41 seats)

Other Parties: 1 Independent

Total Seats: 100

---------------------------------

97th Congress (1981-1983)

Majority Party: Republican (53 seats)

Minority Party: Democrat (46 seats)

Other Parties: 1 Independent

Total Seats: 100

---------------------------------

98th Congress (1983-1985)

Majority Party: Republican (54 seats)

Minority Party: Democrat (46 seats)

Other Parties: 0

Total Seats: 100

http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/history/one_item_and_teasers/partydiv.htm

Considering they lost 12 seats, I am not surprised they would be a little intimidated.

[Greyhound]

98. I write corrected. His duplicity is well documented, however. n/t

:kick:

[villager]

82. for another thing:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3590829&mesg_id=3590829

[fasttense]

3. The Democrats have the bushes back, especially Nancy and Harry, n/t

[ClassWarrior]

5. If you abandon the Dem Party, you no longer represent your best interests.

Because the alternatives to staying and working to change it for the better are disastrous.

NGU.

[Subdivisions]

17. WE'VE BEEN WORKING TO CHANGE IT FOR YEARS!!! How

much more of this are you willing to take?

Did you forget how this 110th Congress came to be? Where has that gotten us. As soon as someone is elected, the neocons come to them with a vial of anthrax with that electee's name engraved on it and on top of that, their entire life is exposed to the Machine. They are OWNED. Give them a nice bonus check and that vial and they get whatever the neocons (or whoever TPTB are) want.

We can't do a goddamned thing about with puny votes and positions they care not a wit about.

[ClassWarrior]

34. Then YOU give up.

I'm sure there are plenty of real patriots only too willing to take up your slack.

How much I can take? How much did the White Rose Society take? How much did the people of India take? How much did Medgar Evers take? By their examples, I can take a whole lot more and not be defeated.

NGU.

[Subdivisions]

39. Who said I was defeated? And, where do you get off inferring that

I'm not a "real" patriot? I never said I was giving in to apathy.

Give up? I hardly think so. I'm giving up like Patrick Henry gave up.

We'll see if YOU are a "real" patriot when we see YOU in the streets!

GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH!!!

[ClassWarrior]

66. Yeah, stand in your corner and shake your balled-up little fists at the world.

As I said, people who really do care about the country will be working to make real change while you're stroking your wounded ego.

NGU.

[leftofthedial]

73. "real change"

-spit-

[ClassWarrior]

79. That about sums up your entire posting career at DU.

NGU.

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leftofthedial]

93. -spit-

-spit-

[Common Sense Party]

67. I wish I had a dollar for every time a DUer said it was time

to "take it to the streets" and time for a "real revolution."

Good luck at the barricades.

[TheWatcher]

48. Or you could wake up to the fact that NEITHER The Dem Party or the Republican Party

Represent ANYONE'S best interests. Save their own. Which, as it is becoming increasingly clear, have nothing to do with We The People.

That does not mean you should abandon the party, but it would help to approach things with reality and clarity.

We have been left on our own.

[Individualist]

51. DLC is all for government of, by and for the corporations.

[ClassWarrior]

64. What part of "staying and working to change it for the better" didn't you understand?

:eyes:

NGU.

[TheWatcher]

90. I understand it completly.

Where did I stay to stop doing that?

I merely stated that we need to face reality as to what we are dealing with.

Now what part of that did YOU not understand?

[Freddie Stubbs]

7. Crimes? This was only about civil immunity, not CRIMINAL immunity

[EFerrari]

9. There was no reason to provide civil immunity except to protect Bush.

Hopefully, the Courts will throw this out.

[Freddie Stubbs]

18. Bush would have been exempt from civil litigation without this legislation

[EFerrari]

20. But he would have had no way to suppress what came out in discovery.

That's the key here. That's what needed to be quashed.

[Freddie Stubbs]

24. It is already known what he has done

What is there that could be discovered?

[EFerrari]

26. Well, now we can't know that, can we?

And what you know or what I know isn't a matter of public record as it would be if civil suits could proceed. A shame.

[Occulus]

65. Evidence of what we "know", for starters.

Evidence of things we weren't aware of, for another thing. The discovery process, were there ever to be such cases, would be a beautiful thing.

Come on. At least discuss this honestly.

[Dr.Phool]

69. Feingold tried to tell them, they didn't have a clue as to what they were immunizing!

So, I guess there's something discoverable if you pull your head out of the sand.

[Subdivisions]

11. So what? They do whatever they want. They don't want their

donors sued and they won't let them be held criminally responsible. What would they do in a criminal case anyway? Go down and drag AT&T personnel and throw them in one of those Halliburton/KBR gas-piped influx of illegal immigrant detention concetration camps?

Nope, those prisons are for us.

[Freddie Stubbs]

23. Apperently Obama feels that it is pass ing FISA more important than suing telecoms

[Subdivisions]

25. FISA was fine the way it was. This was done specifically as a way

to get the telecoms off the hook.

Tonight they'll all be celebrating together and talking about whose phones and cables they're going to tap into first.

Also, I always fail to see anyone talking about how this opens TPTB to listen in on political and business opponents. NOTHING!

[alarimer]

42. We know what side Obama is on and it isn't ours.

He bread is buttered by the telecoms obviously. They have more money than we do.

[robinlynne]

86. please don't mention that name right now.

[Gold Metal Flake]

12. We must build a new Democratic Party.

Recall that many Democrats in congress were not cooperative with FDR's New Deal reforms. Recall the Dixiecrats.

There will need to be more progressive Dems, and more incumbent conservative Dems have to be removed. It's a difficult process, but it's the best chance we have. There are no competitive third parties with any chance to outnumber Democratics or Republickers in Congress.

[robinlynne]

87. true. if it weren't for the stolen elections, and the DNCC committee who

pours millions of dollars into making sure progressives don't get elected, they would be in. How do we get rid of the blue dog coalition? Without them, we can talk about honest elections.

[Blue_In_AK]

14. Watch it, you're going to get tombstoned

with that kind of talk.

[alarimer]

43. If that's true, this place is worthless.

That kind of talk is exactly what we need. Fuck this "shut up and fall in line" bullshit.

[LVjinx]

96. Exactly. If I wanted to post somewhere everyone was drooling clones I'd go to Free Republic.

[Connie_Corleone]

15. This bill had nothing to do with criminal prosecution.

This was regarding civil liability.

[EFerrari]

16. It does, though. Because now what can be found in discovery

in a civil case won't be available to us.

More power in the hands of the government to decide what information we can have WHILE they are free to spy on us. So ironic.

[polmaven]

28. We don't really need

the civil case discovery to investigate or prosecute a criminal case.

[EFerrari]

33. Right. But criminal cases are tried by the government.

By attorneys subject to political influence.

By giving up the ability to try civil cases, we give up the opportunity to operate outside of a political environment. And that is vastly limiting.

[polmaven]

49. That is where we will hold President Obama

responsible. His judiciary must be one that will not BE subject to that influence. He will not, i am very, very sure, appoint judges the way the misadministration has.

[EFerrari]

50. Our justice system should never depend upon one person.

I also look forward to his appointees. But that's just one element in this situation.

[robinlynne]

88. And, aparently there were several casees agaisnt the govt already which were

thrown out for lack of standing, because the phone companies were the ones who needed to be sued.

[EFerrari]

89. There are, iirc, about 40 cases that stand to be tossed out. n/t

[Occam Bandage]

22. Your interests are stripping telecom immunity? Why, are you a trial lawyer?

[stray cat]

27. With a two party system - do the repubs represent you interest better?

[Disturbed]

36. Too bad the Founders didn't create a Parliamentary System.

The Electoral System

Repeal the 12th amendment, reforming the electoral college, standardizing party qualifications in the states, qualified and free access to public airwaves.

1.Uniform Ballot Access
2.Loosen Third Party Ballot Restrictions
3.Universal Voter Registration
4.Election Day Holiday
5.Equal Media Access/Debate Inclusion
6.Instant Runoff Voting (IRV)
7.Secure Voting Machines
8.Public Campaign Financing
9.Direct Popular Vote Election of the President
10.Congressional Representation

[HCE SuiGeneris]

59. OMG! A post that productively espouses ideas to initiate a better system!

Many, many accolades, Disturbed.

:applause:

[GreenPartyVoter]

99. Amen to most of that

I prefer other forms of ranked voting over IRV, but hey I'm still with ya anyway! *high five*

http://www.hostdiva.com/liberalchristians/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=116&Itemid=29&limit=1&limitstart=1

[Opressed]

32. Lesser of Two Evils

My view of American politics is very grim at this time. However, I would still choose voting Democratic over Republican, as the lesser of two evils.

The problem is, both parties are really controlled by a very small number of very powerful elite groups which have been slowly leading this country to-wards a fascist dictatorship for decades. Study of political, social and economic events over the past few decades shows this.

The Republican Party tends to push the US down this path faster but the Democratic Party has also been leading us down this path, just more slowly. Of course, Bush Jr. has sprinted us quite a distance down this path, but he didn’t start it.

The question is how far these elite groups want to take us down that path and how far we might go past where even they want us to go, because such trends can easily spiral out of their control.

Hopefully, not only would the democrats proceed down this path toward a fascist dictatorship more slowly, maybe they would not plan on going too far down that path, just far enough to assuage the goals for power that the elite groups behind the democrats have.

Regardless, if the public does not begin to realize it is being strongly manipulated through multiple moral panics and fear over multiple exaggerated enemy threats in the creation of a permanent state of war time mentality, then it is extremely likely the US will slide into a true fascist dictatorship in the not too distant future. Just because we are the United States of America, it does not make us immune from the possibility we will lose the freedoms we have fought so hard for and cease being a democratic republic.

We have been losing our rights for the last couple decades and since Bush Junior, the rate we have been losing rights should panic people who desire freedom.

We are at risk of becoming this centuries New Nazi Order, though we would almost certainly call ourselves something else. The US is currently the undisputed superpower of the world. Should the US fall into such a fascist dictatorship, the result would be vastly worse that what happened with Germany in WWII.

The only way to prevent this is through the efforts of US Citizens through political activism.

[endarkenment]

35. The disappointment has been around for like 25 years.

Nothing much has changed in that department. Certainly we have seen this same crap repeated ad nauseum since 2006 on the same and related issues, from war funding to contempt to impeachment. Our party has no spine. Well not entirely true. It has a very small and under-developed spine: its progressive base. Walking away from us is not going to help. Naderizing yourself does appear to result in a spine, but it is an illusion, a big-fish small-pond illusion. The path back to a party that represents working families rather than corporate interests is long, frequently goes in the wrong direction, and we have just gotten started. I'm sorry if anyone convinced you this would be easy, or that we could make lots of progress in a few years. I personally doubt that I will see a major change in my lifetime, absent a '29 level crackup. But I will not quit. I will not give up. I will not let every corporate media amplified division deter me from working to make this shared vision of a progressive party that represents working families, that rescues this republic from the corporate cabal, a reality.

[glitch]

37. Slightly over 40 years, but still we have to fight. Otherwise, we're just sheep. nt

[EFerrari]

44. On this day, Teddy Kennedy was wheeled onto the floor of the Senate

got out of the chair and walked into the well.

*THAT'S* the falling off we have seen in our lifetimes.

[glitch]

92. Yes. :( nt

[EFerrari]

38. We're like the frog trying to find a better place to kick

in a pan of warming water.

[redqueen]

40. Can you make that an OP?

And maybe put "naked" or "child porn" in the title, so people will bother reading it.

[alarimer]

41. Mine either.

I no longer call myself a Democrat, that's for sure. I sure as hell am no Republican. I just don't fit in anywhere.

What has done it for me is the caving in every single time on every single issue that Bush wants. Now with the FISA thing, I am definitely sitting out this election. I cannot stomach voting for anyone who voted for that piece of crap.

[Disturbed]

45. I joined the Green Party after the 2000 RWing Coup.

I vote Green, except for Pres. My vote doesn't count for much since I'm in CA.

[TexasObserver]

46. The Republicans favorite kind of Democrat - The Kamikaze!!

This sure sounds familiar. Oh yeah, I remember. The year 2000. A bunch of assholes running around saying "Bush, Gore - what's the difference?! I'm voting for Nader!!"

It's politics. You don't get to win on every issue. Your Democratic representatives will always cut more deals than you would have them cut.

This kind of OP represents the petty, petulant, pathetic wing of the Democratic party - the babies, who can't ever make it to the finish line because they're too busy crying about not getting their way.

[Individualist]

47. Damn the DLC!

[EFerrari]

54. And your post represents the Republican Wing of the Democratic Party

that can only respond with personal attacks and name calling and not reason, with mindless bullying and not issues.

That's what politics are all about, calling people names and trying to degrade them into submission.

That'll work.

[TexasObserver]

60. No, it represents the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party.

Now, rejoin my Ignore list. That's what I get for removing your name from it.

If you're a Democrat, you certainly don't show it in your posts.

[EFerrari]

62. I apologize for not being mindless enough for you. n/t

[LVjinx]

97. Ah, you're one of those pro-censorship, anti 1st ammendment-type "democrats"

aka Republicans.

[Fumesucker]

61. It would be nice to win on an issue at least every once in a while..

That hasn't been happening lately, at least for the most important issues.

[TexasObserver]

63. It would be nice to see a post from you that isn't attacking Obama.

Your hatred of Obama hasn't gone unnoticed.

[Fumesucker]

71. Ummm... I post about a lot of things.. not just Obama

I don't hate the man, just his actions in this particular case.

On edit: It really doesn't make any difference to me, I'll be dead before the shit really hits the fan, but I have grandchildren I love dearly and the idea of them living in the even more extreme police state that is on the way makes my blood boil.

[RFKJrNews]

95. Texas Observer, methinks many of us would take issue with that

I'm not crying over FISA because I didn't get my way.

I'm crying because I want my Constitution back.

They've trucked with it, friend!

[Runcible Spoon]

52. sympathetic hugs to you. I ALMOST reached my breaking point when...

a bunch of people here criticized a linked article as being from a source that was "too leftist/too progressive". It happens very rarely, but I was at a loss for words, so I went and took the dog for a walk to get perspective. I came back and was STILL fuming!

[katty]

53. nope, and haven't for a long time - i'm done with them

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

55. Yes, they do.

But that's OK, there are all sorts of people who vote against the Democrats despite their own better interests.

[EFerrari]

57. There is no vote today so maybe we should back off the "Go vote for Nader" thing.

I've been just as angry as the OP on many days.

If we don't get angry over this stuff, we aren't paying attention.

[Maureen1322]

56. My feelings today are the same as after Katrina.

They just don't give a shit. None of them.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

58. They vote, I vote.

They vote with the Republicans, I don't.

Politics as usual isn't "change", it's Politics as usual.

[derby378]

68. The majority of "Democrats" on Capitol Hill no longer represent my best interests...

I am not yet at the point where I'm going to paint the entire party with that brush.

[EFerrari]

75. That's a good point. Most of us who are the party don't work there. n/t

[ForrestGump]

76. Took the words right out of my mouth. Unless you're a corporation, of course today's Democrats

don't represent you, as a collective, but there're still a few good ones left in DC. Very few, admittedly, but still a few with conscience and ideals. And there are a few more out in the hinterlands.

[Help_I_Live_In_Idaho]

70. You obviously can't win with...

Either party. They all work for the wealthy aristocrats and corporate criminals.

[HughMoran]

72. I am disappointed too

Today is a day that will go down in infamy

[deacon]

78. It's Pelosi and Reid. They are HORRIBLE. They are destroying the party.

Man, if you can't rally a party against a 23% opponant. You stink. And they caved in every time.

We went backwards with these two and they've left us to expect absolutely nothing good from them in the future.

[kenny blankenship]

80. Best interests? I'd settle for them representing my average, middling, so-so interests

I really would.

[ColbertWatcher]

84. False. Oh, wait this isn't a poll? Sorry. n/t

[Fireweed247]

91. We need to reclaim the Democratic party

They cannot however, legalize illegal wiretapping. They do not have the power to write legislation that violates the Constitution. This legislation is illegal and the entire US Congress are criminals.

[TexasObserver]

100. The Republican Party no longer represents my best interests.

And they never have.

The choice is between the GOP and the Democratic party, not between the Democratic party and choices that exist only in your head.

Until you focus on the choices for president and the choices for congress, you'll never find happiness in electoral politics. It's not about getting your way. It's about minimizing the damage the forces of evil will try to commit.

[Tyler Durden]

101. If what you say is true, then the Revolution is overdue.

We are all the new serfs, and the government has become the new Romanovs.

It's 1917 all over again with no Bolsheviks.

[Enrique]

102. then you're probably not a homeless veteran

and probably not dependent on Medicare. The dems have just passed two major pieces of legislation crucial for such people.