More Public Schools Dividing Boys, Girls

[Connonym]

http://www.salon.com/wire/ap/archive.html?wire=D8MS6UNO0.html

HARTLAND, Wis. -- Lauren Panos was surprised when she walked into her ninth-grade English class in the fall and saw there were no boys.

Her parents had not told her they had enrolled her in a new all-girls class at Arrowhead High School in Hartland, about 25 miles west of Milwaukee. A semester into classes, Panos still isn't sold on the idea.

"All the girls there, they can talk out of turn," the 14-year-old said. "We get really off task and it's really annoying."

More public school systems are looking at separating boys and girls, whether for certain classes or by entire schools, after the federal government opened the door last fall. Supporters say splitting students by sex minimizes distractions, helps them learn better and allows boys and girls to explore subjects they may not otherwise take.

I can't decide if I think this is a good idea or a bad idea. I'm pretty sure my 13-year-old daughter would be more willing to participate in class if there weren't boys but how will that prepare kids for life in the real world where work (almost always) isn't segregated by sex? Opinions?

[Stuckinthebush]

1. Ed research does indicate

that girls at a certain age do better in all-girl classes. They may not like it, but it does seem to help them open up and not feel competition with boys. Socially, it may or may not be helpful, but from a learning standpoint there are fewer distractions for girls and they don't feel the male gaze.

As for boys, I am not familiar with that research but I'll look it up.

[Captain Hilts]

2. There are advantages and disadvantages. nt

[The2ndWheel]

3. Minimizes distractions?

I've been a 14 year old boy. Unless you mess around with the brain, we can still think. Not about the stuff on the chalkboard, but distractions are everywhere. Sometimes even a cool breeze can send your mind wandering.

It's just yet another attempt at control, which would do nothing but cause more complicated problems down the road. What did people do before school? How did they ever figure anything out? I'm sure we could learn a lot if we didn't have to spend all our time trying to behave in a chair.

[BoneDaddy]

16. Or unless you are a gay boy in

an all male school where it might become very distracting. :)

[fasttense]

4. It is a tricky thing to do fairly

(To answer your question an old study indicated that girls and boys benefit from having girls in the classroom. All girl classes tend to encourage girls but all boy classrooms tend to be very messy, and sloppy. All boy classes tend to get more hierarchical and bullying behavior increases. Discipline becomes more of a problem without girls in the classroom. But I understand some more recent studies showed all boy classrooms didn't always turn out bad. I'll look for the studies.)

But I have serious doubts that the segregation of the sexes is being promoted for the benefit of the girls. The religiously insane are doing it to keep the girls in their place. It really bothers me this separate but equal crap that quickly degenerates to separate but not equal.

From a feminist web site:

"Sure, some studies have shown that both girls and boys can benefit from being in a sex-segregated learning environment. But the right-wingers who are pushing for more single-sex schools don't have these benefits in mind. This is more of a tool to reinforce traditional gender roles than it is to improve learning.

Brad illustrates this with a great quote from the ACLU's complaint (PDF) against sex-segregated schools in Louisiana:

"Mr. Murphy briefly outlined the differences in instruction that would be given to girls and to boys. For instance, girls would receive character education and be subject to high expectations both academically and socially. Girls would be taught math through "hands-on" approaches. Field trips, physical movement, and multisensory strategies would be incorporated into girls' classes. Girls would act as mentors for elementary school girls.

On the other hand, boys' teachers would teach and discuss "heroic" behavior and ideas "that show adolescents what it means to truly 'be a man.' Boys' classes would include consistently applied discipline systems and offer tension release strategies. Boys' classes would also feature more group assignments."

So be very careful about these "same-sex" classes, they are a breeding ground for forcing gender stereotyped roles on children.

http://feministing.com/archives/005936.html

[DBoon]

5. I can see it as breaking out of gender stereotypes

for example, an all-girls math class, or shop class, or an all-boys class that is traditionally heavily female (do they have home ec anymore?)

[Connonym]

7. Here tech ed and home ec are required for everyone

I remember 20+ years ago when I was in middle school some of the parents were upset that their sons had to take home ec. Who'd have expected that in the 21st century people would STILL be upset about shit like that.

I'm naive enough that I would have taken them at their word it would be the same curriculum but I should have figured it was another way to screw women over. :sigh: what a world

[557188]

6. Moving backwards

It's neat how Brown doesn't apply to sex! One type of segregation is ok but it's different when it comes to sex? Doesn't make much sense. Traditional sexist bullshit about how men and women are oh so different!

I can cook up studies to support anything I want. I could just as easy find something to support a white only class/school. Should we go back to doing that? Hooray racism! Hooray sexism!

A girl has to learn to deal with a world full of boys. Protecting them from boys is the type of mindset from the a different era. It's incredible people still want to do this in the 21st century! All it teaches girls is they are inferior and must be protected and separated. That is not the type of message I'd want to send my children.

[BaltoDemGurl]

8. Just My $.02

I went to an all-girls school, and taught at an all-boys school and a co-ed school. I also wrote my Master's thesis on single-sex education for girls. Studies have consistently shown that BOTH genders do better when separated in an academic setting, and I tend to agree with their findings.

The hardest environment to teach in was the co-ed one, because the girls were constantly distracted. Girls outnumbered the boys 2-1, and they were unable to focus. They also displayed a lot of what is called 'learned helplessness' in front of the boys-if I got them alone to help with their classwork, they knew exactly what they were doing. They showed a lot of reticence to show their intelligence and their capability to hold their own with the boys.

The reason it's so important during the adolescent years is that it helps the young people develop self-confidence. If a girl is in an all-female environment, where she knows that it's okay to be wrong, to engage in cooperative learning with other students, and can ask questions without fear of being seen as stupid, she develops a sense of self-esteem that is important in college and beyond, where she will have to deal with men who may question her abilities because of her gender. The self-confidence she will gain will enable her to be assertive and assume positions of leadership with ease, not to constantly doubt herself and her abilities.

Frankly, I think an all-female eduation is the best thing you can do to raise a healthy, feminist woman. Just my $.02.:-)

[Connonym]

9. in an all-girls school or in single sex classes in a regular school?

Would it make a difference if the entire school was same gender or if just the particular class was same gender?

[BaltoDemGurl]

10. From What I Remember

even just certain classes being single-sex in a co-ed school showed a benefit to girls, especially in science and math. I'll have to see if I can dig up my thesis for citations...since I'm not a student anymore, I don't have access to the databases like I used to. :(

[Connonym]

11. No, no, don't go to any trouble please

I was just wondering if you remembered off hand. I don't want you to have to look for anything. I'll do some more research on it. Thanks :)

[BaltoDemGurl]

12. Amazon

has a list of books-many of which I have read on the subject-which discuss single-sex education for both sexes.

http://www.amazon.com/Same-Different-Equal-Rethinking-Single-Sex/dp/0300108311/sr=8-1/qid=1169742141/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-0692911-3029231?ie=UTF8&s=books

http://www.amazon.com/All-Girls-Single-Sex-Education-Matters/dp/B000CDG874/sr=8-3/qid=1169742141/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/105-0692911-3029231?ie=UTF8&s=books

http://www.amazon.com/Separated-Sex-Critical-Single-Sex-Education/dp/1879922169/sr=8-7/qid=1169742141/ref=sr_1_7/105-0692911-3029231?ie=UTF8&s=books

The last one was published by the AAUW, a reputable organization. They have LOTS of information on single-sex eudcation.

This is one of my favorite topics, in case you hadn't noticed. :D

[Connonym]

13. Thank you :)

I'm going to read up on this because I'm torn as to whether or not my daughters would benefit from it. I personally felt like an uber dork in front of boys AND other girls at school so I'm not sure if I buy that argument but otoh I hear a lot from my daughter about boys acting out and disrupting class (including a story of a boy allegedly masturbating in class although this was heresay, she was not actually in that class) so I wonder if perhaps it would make the learning more about the learning and less about controlling the classroom.

[NewJeffCT]

14. I'm open-minded on this issue overall, but

While you have examples of adolescent girls feigning learning helplessness in front of boys, how do you explain that adolescent girls generally outperform boys when it comes to academics? And, young women are getting more degrees from college now by a fairly wide margin...

I'm not saying that all boys and all girls classes are not a good idea (I don't know enough to make that call either way) I just wanted more information.

[Justitia]

15. I loved my years in an all-girls school (went to both), great camaraderie, good grades, less pressur...

to fit-in, look good, etc.

I made some incredible friendships there. I did focus so much more on the classroom stuff.

Of course, we all watched the clock tick soooo slowly in that last class as our boyfriends from the all-boys school were outside waiting for us!

It was a wonderful, nurturing environment and really a lot of fun too.