We have Fucked ourselves into a corner...every few years..like 11 to 14...we double our consumption

[opihimoimoi]

of Food/goods/energy... our population doubles due to a 1.75 % Annual growth rate.....This is NUTs...soon 600,000,000 American, 12 BILLION global pop.....

we shouod be talking, discussing, planning a humane way outta this upcoming MESS...

Where are our Leaders to address this aspect alone...??

never mind the Action or No Action of Climate Change Decision which is needed soon....more like ASAP....

Whats it gonna take? Florida under water? Famine? Anarchy? No fresh water? No Fuel?

The World cannot meet the Human needs...even now. We see starving peeps everywhere...

In 5 years when we add millions of mouths to feed, clothe, shelter....something is gonna give....

It will not be pretty

Unless we act soon.

[DarthDem]

1. Well

What do you suggest?

[petgoat]

2. Cell phone brain cancer would cull the herd pretty quick, nicht wahr? nt

[opihimoimoi]

4. using whatever resources we have left to rebuild our cities in GREEN ENERGY EFFICIENT WAYS

Using a nearly CLOSED SYSTEM we can do it...

Only the overall plans are missing

[DarthDem]

19. Nice!

Like your positive attitude.
:)

Maybe Obama gets it.

[Skittles]

3. I hear you Opi

but I tell you, this world is fucked - look at America - we have an entire political party who whose platform officially denies most of the problems

[opihimoimoi]

5. We knew them Pubs were Deaf and Dumb...But BLIND TOO????

Them Greedy bastids know that Over Pop is BAD...but they have used the word GROWTH as "its GOOD"

Well, we got way TOO MUCH OF A GOOD THING>>>>>Dats US HUMANS....

Every year we need, require MORE FOOD< ENERGY< ETC

The Ocean Fisheries, the Lake and River fisheries...all are collapsing....Farms, land and sea are not able to keep up...very soon, the tipping point...and in many regions...its in their faces.

Unless we do something,,,like Ban WAR....we are headed for some miserable times.

[Skittles]

7. what gets to me is

I have no kids yet I care more than the majority of the people I know with kids - I know this because just talking to them they are completely unaware by what is going on in this world

[opihimoimoi]

9. Ignorance and apathetic...this has to be reversed big time...come, we find a way...

[Skittles]

10. come! YEE HAW!!

takes me back, Opi :hi:

[opihimoimoi]

11. Its been a LONG JOURNEY....

:toast: :hi: :bounce: :luau: Sandy Beaches:

[Skittles]

13. I don't like what is happening to this board

I see more and more idiots - yes INDEED

[opihimoimoi]

18. Comes with the territory...more Pub trolls by the week....

[SammyWinstonJack]

25. Soylent Green?

:silly: :scared:

[bdamomma]

24. denies our problems.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

6. Population is the big elephant in the room.

But gawd forbid we suggest that people stop procreating. Heaven forfend!!

No, instead we have developed nations wringing their hands over "low birthrates", as if producing fewer resource-sucking humans is a TERRIBLE thing. Please. :eyes:

[opihimoimoi]

8. Education is the KEY ...at least to slow the rate until we reach zero growth, if ever.

With that in mind...food production, energy resources, etc has no choice but to keep up with demand...we need to be planting more soon....to store, to preserve, and to keep up.

we need everyone on board....only education can do it...

[mrreowwr_kittty]

12. Educating women inevitably leads to smaller families.

When women have the wherewithal to control their lives and economic situations, they choose to limit the number of children they have. Why wouldn't they? The plutocrats don't want that to happen because they want an excess of cheap labor and cannon fodder. Plus, they just like having lots of poor people around because it makes their wealth that much more satisfying. Why give it to them?

[opihimoimoi]

43. Yup...the answer lies in direction of effective ed....we can do it if we try

[Lasher]

14. Look at what China did to slow their population growth.

It's not fair for some to be responsible while others do this:

[opihimoimoi]

16. its simple arithmatic...too many peeps not enough food...its here

[lapfog_1]

15. Can't say we weren't warned...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Population_Bomb

Of course, the ZPG people back in the late sixties and early seventies were off by 2 or three decades... they didn't take into account that technology (especially oil production and exploration technology) would allow for almost a doubling of the population before the inevitable crash ( all that we eat today is mostly dependent on cheap oil ). Not to mention that even had they taken into account future technological advances, it wouldn't help their books and lectures to predict a disaster in 40 or 50 years... people, especially Americans, never think in that time scale.

On the other hand, the Chinese DO think in those time scales... and they have a very effective (though not perfect) ZPG plan (actually a negative population plan)... not to mention the hundred year lease they signed with the British on Hong Kong... and that worked out well for them, too.

[opihimoimoi]

17. We were warned and still the world ignores despite ongoing warnings being intensified

[natrat]

20. humans suck so bad it's not funy

[opihimoimoi]

29. It seems we cannot see the impending DANGERS of the combo of over pop and diminishing energy

We forget the dangers of being il prepared.

[alarimer]

21. We deserve what we get.

Americans in particular are just too selfish and ignorant.

[opihimoimoi]

30. but our innocent children...who is most to suffer? What if we don't prepare for them?

[Fumesucker]

22. If it were not for immigration, the US would be in population decline right now..

Series.

The US birthrate is below the approximately 2.1 per woman needed to maintain a stable population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_fertility_rate

[opihimoimoi]

31. we are but only 300 million out of 6.7 billion,,,we need global action asap

[Fumesucker]

39. I agree that global action is needed...

But I gathered that your OP was more about the US, since I don't think the world is doubling its use of resources as quickly as you mentioned in the OP.

The only thing that appears to seriously slow birthrates is becoming wealthy (in relative terms) and educated. I honestly don't foresee that happening to the parts of the world that really need to cut their birthrates by large percentages.

[JohnyCanuck]

23. Time to consider moving to a steady state economy (if it is not already too late)?

Why is economic growth a threat to economic sustainability, national security, and international stability?

To grow, an economy requires more natural capital, including soil, water, minerals, timber, other raw materials, and energy sources. When the economy grows too fast or gets too big, this natural capital is depleted, or "liquidated." To function smoothly, the economy also requires an environment that can absorb and recycle pollutants. When natural capital stocks are depleted, and/or the capacity of the environment to absorb pollutants is exceeded, the economy is forced to shrink.

National security, meanwhile, is a function of economic sustainability. The economic strife of a nation may result in insurrection or revolution, and eventually the nation-state may turn its agressions outward. From the Nazi doctrine of Lebensraum to the 21st century powder kegs, war invariably involves, and often revolves around, struggles for resources by nations that have exceeded their ecological capacities - or have had their capacities impacted by other states.


Can't technology alleviate the threat of economic growth?

Some economists think that, because a particular production process can become more efficient (more output per unit of natural capital), there is no limit to economic growth. These economists and “technological optimists” are disregarding the second law of thermodynamics, the entropy law, which tells us that we cannot achieve 100% efficiency in the economic production process. When the entropy law is applied across all economic sectors, or in other words when the limits to efficiency have been reached, the only remaining way to grow the economy is by using more natural capital (including energy).

Remember: to think there is no limit to growth on a finite planet is precisely, mathematically equivalent to thinking that you may have a stabilized, steady state economy on a perpetually shrinking planet. Both claims are precisely, equally ludicrous!

http://www.steadystate.org/CASSEFAQs.html

[opihimoimoi]

32. Steady State = Sustainable, = Stable = Surviving...

[dysfunctional press]

26. the Lord shall provide. stop your worrying and put your faith in Him.

THAT'S what were up against...and THAT'S why nothing will ever be done, until it's far too late.

and even if there IS some type of worldwide collapse of civilization- obviously some people are going to survive- thrive even. and they intend to be among those survivors, so they don't have to worry about staving it off...-it's called "anticipatory socialization", and it's why they always vote republican- because they plan to be filthy rich one day. even if they're 47 and living in a trailer park, or in a van down by the river.

[opihimoimoi]

33. Wishful thinking ranks with Delusional mind set...yup, you nailed it...Its all Ignorance's fault

He set us up big time....

[Juche]

27. China will probably lead the way

I'm serious about that too. While we in the US are bragging about 'being the bestest nation on earth at everything' China will slowly find newer and better ways to live a clean, renewable lifestyle. They have to unless they want to get stuck in poverty.

It sounds irrational today with all the pollution in China, but all the pollution is why they will do it, because they have much more incentive to find renewable ways to keep their society going. Not only that but they have to realize the brakes are going to be applied pretty harshly in the next 5-10 years unless they find cleaner, renewable ways to keep growing. There isn't enough metal, oil or wood for everyone to live like westerners. So China will probably become the world's go to source of green technology in the next decade.

World population is set to stabalize at 10 billion though. And US population isn't likely to ever hit 600 million because our TFR barely keeps up with the death rate. Each woman has an average of 2.1 kids per lifetime, since it takes 2 parents to have a kid that means our pop has pretty much stabalized. The only way we'd hit 600 million is if 300 million immigrants move in.

[opihimoimoi]

35. More Humans mean more consumption...China leads in stabilizing efforts. others follow soon we hope

Where will the food resources come from to feed the 3.3 extra billion while we stabilize?

Our Leaders are silent on these issues...beyond band aid small shit that is...

[Juche]

36. An African green revolution was talked about at the G8

That combined with better biotechnology, agricultural tech, hydroponic farming, etc. and hopefully we will adapt. We may have to start giving up meat for a while, as it takes about 7 calories of corn or wheat to make 1 calorie of meat.

Of course, a minor jump in food prices has already sent hundreds of millions scrambling. So we are far more vulnerable than we think.

[opihimoimoi]

41. Negative signs abound no end...at thge very least we have opened our eyes to the concept of GREEN

20 years ago...it was "THOSE TREE HUGGER TYPES" spoken in a derogatory tone....now its a rush to Green...we should all want to avoid die offs...like in large Famines due to various causes

[madokie]

28. There will continue to be a population explosion as long as fucking is more fun than dying

heard that somewhere one day

[opihimoimoi]

34. LOL...hence the "We have fucked ourselves into a corner"

More condoms more condoms.....ya don't to stop fucking....

[skip fox]

37. One of the worst periods for the human race stares us in the face

and we laugh and consume and dispose.

The sure sign of addiction. To engage in an activity which will result in one's disablement or extinction. To look the other way. To deny. Or to accept (as Fox News is even doing occasionally) and continue to do so (with the argument that since China and India might be so doing we would be stupid to do the responsible thing).

Juice junkies!

Our bumperstickers; "I Consume Therefore I Am," "I Am That Which I Can Displace" (a distension of the ego), etc.


We should be leaders in this and try to persuade emerging economies to be responsible.


We may be the first generation of humans who could be said to KNOW (and not simply believe) that life will change dramatically for our race in the near future.

[opihimoimoi]

40. Thank you for a thoughtful response....signs of a Planet gone wild

do we have a disposable Planet? signs point toward this perspective as we refuse to address its management and thus carry on using Destiny and not Opportunity...

It is time we reminded our so called leaders of our collective CONCERNS re these important issues

[The2ndWheel]

38. Really only one way to do that

Stop giving ourselves the ability to cheaply extract and harness more from the environment. We bitch about corporations privatizing the profits and socializing the costs. Well, as a species, we do the same thing.

Since there really is no way to enforce any measure that would stop giving us that ability, then good luck trying to turn the machine off. We have never used less energy as the years go by. The more efficient we make product A, the more people use product A. The more efficient we make product A, the more energy we have saved up to now make product B. The more efficient we make product B, the more people use product B. It never stops. The only way it might stop is if we get to the point where every person alive has everything they need all the time. Nobody can want or need more than that, and there can not be a single individual person added to the total after we reach that point. If even one more person is added, our consumption will grow. Again, good luck.

[opihimoimoi]

42. Should we give up then....? and the obvious answer is no...we should not.

We have our backs to the wall ...our Planet groans from our activities....

level One peeps cannot hear the Squeaky Planet

:toast: Thanks for the thought/comment

Am working on a hugh plan to address obstacles...