Dems Silently Killing ANY Effort To Hold ANYONE Accountable-BECAUSE They KNOW They Are Guilty Too!

[kpete]

Glenn Greenwald
Tuesday July 15, 2008 08:16 EDT
The motivation for blocking investigations into Bush lawbreaking

"An additional complicating factor is that key members of Congress sanctioned this program, so many of those who might ordinarily be counted on to lead the charge are themselves compromised."
From: The Dark Side-
http://harpers.org/archive/2008/07/hbc-90003234

"Well, there's no question in my mind that there is an obvious level of collusion here. We now know that Democratic leadership knew about the illegal surveillance program almost from its inception. Even when they were campaigning about fighting for civil liberties, they were aware of an unlawful surveillance program as well as a torture program. And ever since that came out, the Democrats have been silently trying to kill any effort to hold anyone accountable because that list could very well include some of their own members."
from: Jonathan Turley
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25283004/
http://www.theseminal.com/2008/07/14/jim-webb-speaks-out-on-fisa-and-the-role-of-bloggers-in-legislative-fights/

So,of course key Congressional Democrats who were made aware of these illegal torture and surveillance programs are going to protect the Bush administration and other lawbreakers. If you were Jay Rockfeller or Nancy Pelosi, would you want there to be investigations and prosecutions for torture programs that, to one degree or another, you knew about? If you were Jane Harman, wouldn't you be extremely eager to put a stop to judicial proceedings that were likely to result in a finding that surveillance programs that you knew about, approved of, and helped to conceal were illegal and unconstitutional?

When President Bush and Vice President Cheney celebrated the signing of the new FISA bill at the White House along with Jay Rockefeller, Steny Hoyer and Jane Harman (see the wonderful photos here) http://www.sacbee.com/838/story/1073350.html#more_images , they weren't just celebrating with the political officials who helped protect them from consequences for illegal acts. They were celebrating with those who were participants in those acts, and who were therefore just as eager for immunity and an end to judicial proceedings as Bush officials themselves.

more at:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/07/15/complicity/index.html

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

1. There is no doubt in my mind about this.

[leveymg]

63. Exactly what I wrote weeks ago. Reluctantly.

The implications are enormous. I don't think anyone in DC knows what to do about this problem, except to try and sweep it under the rug, and hope we all lose interest. The problem is, even if we don't do something about it, the rest the world is going to press for arrests and war trials. Inevitably. It's better if we take care of it ourselves, before it comes to that.

On 01/20/2009, President Obama has to make an address to the nation. Either EVERYTHING gets revealed (including the details of how the CIA and Bush White House screwed up the warrantless surveillance of the 9/11 hijackers, and they release a copy of the tapes of the waterboarding interrogations of the double-agents -- KSM, Abu Zubaydah, etc. -- who ran them) to the public voluntarily, or there has to be trials. If they simply tell us what REALLY happened, we might be willing to, maybe, try to forgive them and work something out. Some of them. Maybe. Not Cheney - he goes to jail.

Anyway, this what I wrote a month ago:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/19/64543/8922/739/538265

FISA Reform Bill: Here's What They Aren't Telling You
by leveymg
Thu Jun 19, 2008 at 03:56:20 AM PDT

The Senate and House leadership (majority AND minority leadership, and heads of both Intel Committees) were in on warrantless wiretapping from 2003 on, just as they were briefed about new torture doctrine long before it was revealed in the media. Like the CIA’s "enhanced interrogation techniques", FISA violations went on for years with the Congressional leadership's knowledge before the public learned about it.

Under present law, without change, that makes some very powerful Senators and House leaders – along with White House figures and telco executives -- criminally and civilly liable, and subject to years of being named in law suits and, possible indictment. They know this, and so should you.

The push for amnesty is pure CYA, all the way around. That's why the senior members are now pushing for telco amnesty, while the incumbent President will sign it, knowing that the next one – President Barack Obama -- has vowed not to.

MORE BELOW . . .

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

65. And this is one of the reasons why they will only hold hearings on Bush taking us to

war with lies. The earlier 35 articles of Impeachment included the illegal surveillance, and the beans would be spilled....

[leveymg]

70. Haven't the beans already been spilled?

It's not like we're the only ones who've figured this out.

We don't really need more hearings to connect the dots. It's been clear for years. The major remaining question is: why did Bush refuse to roll-up the al-Qaeda attack cells when Tenet was trying to talk him into ordering that action in July and August, 2001? Just obstinate, pigheaded reckless endangerment, or something far, far worse?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

73. Others might have figured it out but most Americans who get their news from teevee

don't have clue.

As to Al-Qaeda...something far worse IMHO. Although, that in the least would be LIHOP, I have been for years a believer in MIHOP.

[burythehatchet]

2. I have become so disgusted with that botox filled Pelosi

:mad:

[TonyClifton]

33. I agree with you

With a 9% approval rating, you would at least think that something might be done instead of throwing that same blank stare into the cameras everyday.

[Individualist]

3. K&R

[loveable liberal]

4. so do the right thing and sacrifice your political career.

I'm sorry but it is way more important to uphold laws than individual careers. If you are letting criminals skate because you might lose your job you are the biggest scumbag I can think of.

[formercia]

6. They're 'too important' for that.

What would they do on the outside? These people are too institutionalized to survive on the street like the rest of us.

[bdamomma]

14. the media is doing the same thing too.

afraid to loose their jobs, so again selfishness and money are key factors.

[tbyg52]

23. Ain't that the truth?

Most of them have enough money to live on for the rest of their lives, which makes it all the more disgusting that they are hanging on to power while shredding the Constitution.

[kentuck]

5. These folks need to at least be challenged in their leadership positions..

Pelosi and Reid need to be challenged by someone with a little more backbone and a little more respect for the Constitution. Are you listening Senator Feingold?

[Blackhatjack]

7. So Who Does The Democratic Party Belong To? The People Or These Compromised Reps?

Quite frankly, when they covered up the torture program and acted in concert to head off hearings to disclose the nature and extent of the wrongdoing --they no longer represented the Democratic Party and its ideals and its members. Period.

There is no room for sugar coating it. Aid and abet torture ----> Go directly to jail.

[Fresh_Start]

8. The two party system is leading the charge

to kill every single principle the US was founded on

[alllyingwhores]

37. CORRECTION: ONE party system.

[TechBear_Seattle]

47. No, we still have a Two Party system

... unfortunately, it has become effectively a single political organization called the Two Party.

[Quantess]

54. What possible reply can ever be suitable, when you're replying to "alllyingwhores"

:rofl:

[1776Forever]

9. I hear that! Remember Senator Bob Graham? Read on - He is one of a few we can admire!

I think this is one reason he quit the Senate:

Intelligence Matters - Mother Jones

Bob Graham
Interviewed By Jeff Fleischer

November 23, 2004

http://www.motherjones.com/news/qa/2004/11/11_401.html

In his recent book, Intelligence Matters, Graham provides an inside account of what this inquiry found. Graham details examples of the agencies failing to connect the dots or adapt to the new threats represented by global terrorism. He shares his experiences researching intelligence failures and offers some recommendations for preventing future ones. And he takes the Bush administration to task for disengaging from the war against Al Qaeda in order to invade Iraq, a decision Graham voted against and memorably criticized on the Senate floor.

“Ultimately, I would reach the conclusion that September 11 was the culmination of a long trail of American intelligence failures both at home and abroad,” Graham writes in his introduction, “an almost bewildering array of mistakes, missteps, and missed opportunities caused by warring governmental cultures, bureaucratic incompetence and neglect, lack of imagination, and perhaps, most tragic of all, a failure of leadership at the highest levels of government.”

..............

Hmmmm I wonder if he will ever tell the whole story and who will be the main characters? I think we have a good idea!

[sammythecat]

10. Our country is no longer a democracy.

It has been hijacked. We now live in an oligarchy. We the people, have very little, or no, control anymore of what happens to us. Our leadership, both Democratic and Republican, is corrupt and/or compromised to the extent that they no longer represent the people of this country.

We have owners now. They have their own agenda. The consequences of these agenda for the people of the country, the serfs, are of secondary, or no, importance.

The idea of a real revolution no longer seems like a loony idea of some fringe radicals. Something radical has to happen. We just can't put up with another generation or more of this. I don't know if Obama has it in him or not, but if he's going to right this ship, he's going to have to become one of the best, and most heroic, presidents in our history. Something less than that isn't going to be enough I'm afraid.

[bdamomma]

16. but Obama needs us too to help him.

when we unite we can get things done.

[sammythecat]

17. Agreed. Absolutely.

There's millions of us just yearning for a proper leader to support. I just hope there's enough of us and I also hope Barack is skillful enough using the bully pulpit to persuade millions more that we have gone way, way, off track. He's going to need a huge amount of popular support to counter the resistance of the corrupt/compromised/self-serving Congress we have now.

edit to add: Thank God this is an election year and we have hope. If we had to look forward to another couple years of this administration, I think I'd lose all hope.

[Frisbee]

22. Right now people are just too complacent...

but if the economy continues sliding right through recession and into depression, with mass unemployment, the masses may finally be ready for a change. I can't say I know what that change would look like, or how it would come about, but sooner or later the public will reach a breaking point. Of course that is probably why the mass detention centers (concentration camps?) have been built, and what Black Water has been training for. The military might be hesitant to round up or fire on American citizens, but an army for hire would have no such reservations. We might see this coming, but I think they do too.

[Fumesucker]

24. Obama voted to bury this ...

That's what FISA was all about, getting telecom immunity so the crimes would not come to light.

I wish it wasn't so, but there you are.

[sammythecat]

28. Well, I'd say since the 80's the middle class has been disappearing,

Slowly at first, but every year the rate of decline increases. I don't think it exists in any real substantial way today. The days of a single blue collar worker supporting a family in a relative security are pretty much gone. There are still some exceptions left, but that's what they are now, exceptions. Most blue collar families now require two incomes and even then, many, if not most, are really struggling. What are they going to do in the Northern states this winter when their heating bills are 2, 3, or more, times bigger than they were last winter? And, of course, as the price of oil goes up virtually everything else is going to cost more as well. A whole lot of people are going to be facing a real crisis this winter and I haven't seen any evidence that things are going to get any better any time soon. I'm afraid it's going to keep getting worse before it gets better. Our leadership has failed us completely and we are totally unprepared for what comes next.

I agree with you when you say, "I can't say I know what that change would look like, or how it would come about, but sooner or later the public will reach a breaking point." I don't know how it will happen either, but I think this country has to make some radical change in direction or we're going off a cliff. I still find it difficult to imagine any kind of violent revolution actually happening in this country, but I certainly don't scoff at the idea like I would have even a year ago. I've seen some mention of these "detention centers", but I really don't know anything about it. Is there truth to that? I'll have to do some googling.

Other than a few exceptions, we haven't had a reliably honest press in this country for at least the last 8 years. They simply can not be trusted. The Legislative branch of our government is largely corrupt and no longer serves the people, they serve themselves. The Judicial branch has demonstrated their partisanship. Another Republican/Neocon administration and they'll be lost for the rest of our lives. The Executive branch, forget that! We could hardly be worse off with Genghis Khan in the White House.

I guess our only hope right now is Barack Obama. I'm all for him and I sure hope he turns out to be an exceptionally strong, determined, courageous, and good, leader because that's what we need to have right now. If he becomes a disappointment, then we're in real trouble. I don't think there's any margin for error left. I'm no expert by any measure, not even close, but I'm finishing up my 5th decade here and I've never, ever, been this concerned about the country before. It's almost surreal how whacked out everything is and how scary the future has become.

[Golden Raisin]

56. I wish I shared your hope.

Elections are carefully stage-managed smoke and mirrors now. Conventions are grossly expensive, bloated, televised Bread and Circuses (cue the zillions of cascading red, white and blue balloons!) Candidates vetted and pre-picked for us by the One Party with "super delegates" to stomp us down and reverse our choices if the peoples' wishes don't mesh with the Beltway Crowd. By the way, where are super delegates mentioned in the Constitution or did I miss that little tidbit? Results rigged and manipulated, either Diebolded, disenfranchised from the old-fashioned smoke-filled room and right up to and including installation of presidents by the Supreme Court. MSM works 24/7 spewing talking points and propaganda masked as "news" on behalf of the puppeteers. Votes for sale on K Street. It increasingly looks like the national economy (and possibly the global) is heading fast towards an implosion/meltdown a la 1929. Should the financial s**t hit the fan that might finally provide the impetus for the wakeup call. I fear it's too late.

[alllyingwhores]

40. ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? I don't know if you're following the news...

...but...OBAMA VOTED TO COVER IT ALL UP...oh yeah, and destroy the Fourth Amendment.

[Larkspur]

67. Obama sanctioned the coverup for his Dem buddies with his vote on the latest FISA bill

Obama will not seek justice for the People. He will be a good steward to the oligarchs.

[Winston.]

76. It's so obvious !

"Obama will not seek justice for the People. He will be a good steward to the oligarchs"

This plutocracy would never allow anybody they do not OWN near the White House. We cannot vote our way out of this mess.

[Winston.]

77. It's so obvious

"Obama will not seek justice for the People. He will be a good steward to the oligarchs"

This plutocracy would never allow anybody they do not OWN near the White House. We cannot vote our way out of this mess.

[Rocky2007]

19. Come here and let me make you purr

Like the way you think Sammy--spot on I fear. Mr Obama is just what we need at this point in time -- as if by magic but without the smoke and mirrors.

Obama, I think, will find a gathering of Congress persons of both parties and Houses. He will not be alone while he cleans house. Plus the American people are REALLY fed up after 8 years of *ss wipe * and will be more than inclined to support Obama -- pied piper effect me thinks~~~

Yep. Barack's on a roll and this white guy is ready to rock with him!

Hugs to all~~~~

edit: had to get my pied pipers proofed

[sammythecat]

39. I have high hopes that Obama will rise to the occasion.

He better, because, as I just said earlier, I just don't think there's any margin for error now. I'm hoping lightning doesn't strike twice though, because I had very high hopes for Bill Clinton too. Although I still like him, and he had very powerful forces working against him, he was a big disappointment for me. I thought he'd be great and he turned out to be good/ok. To use a football analogy, he was like a first round draft pick that never realized his enormous potential.

Obama will have the very same forces working against him as Clinton did, but at least their evil intent is beginning to be exposed to more and more people despite the best efforts of the mainstream media. If only we had an honest, diligent, and responsible press in this country I'd feel a whole hell of a lot more confident. That actually may be the key to everything. I don't know how we fix the press, but that has to get done somehow, and soon. We sure can't afford to wait for them to slowly die off or retire when their 70.

As far as the pied piper notion goes, I hope Barack is working on some catchy tunes. Look how so many followed the discordant neocon tunes of fear and aggression. And now that we've been led to the edge of a cliff, I think even a lot of Republicans are ready to follow a piper that will lead us ANYPLACE else, just so it's the hell out of here. Our spineless, self-serving legislators will never grow a backbone, but maybe if Obama can inspire enough strong support from the people they'll switch allegiance out of self-interest. They'll still be scum, but they won't be a hindrance anymore.

[alllyingwhores]

41. ARE YOU DELUSIONAL? OBAMA VOTED FOR THE FISA BILL..remember, a couple of days ago.

[sammythecat]

46. I know that.

I think I mentioned the words "if" and "maybe" a lot. I'm in no way certain that Obama is going to be the leader we need. I'm hoping. I'm not convinced of anything other than we're in desperate need of some serious changes.

I don't THINK I'm delusional. It's hard to tell from in here. I might be wrong though. I was wrong in 1992 and got burned. It might happen again, but I sure as hell hope not. We can't afford him being ordinary or ineffective, or just plain bad. What, or who, is the alternative? I don't know who else to root for. Any ideas? What are you're thoughts?

[JBoris]

11. Is there any action that can be taken against congress for refusing to uphold the law?...

And for being accessories to the chimp's crimes?

[rateyes]

21. They can be charged with crimes. Other than that, we can

VOTE THEM THE HELL OUT!!

[underpants]

12. All of them need to go

All of the ones who helped cover it up

All of them

[earth mom]

43. Couldn't agree with you more. nt

[The Backlash Cometh]

13. Isn't there something called a good faith doctrine,

stating that you can't personally benefit from your own vote if you committed a crime?

[Imagevision]

15. Like the Dem's are goody-too shoes - most likely, they are simply exposed less?

[yodermon]

18. There's got to be at least *one* of Kucinich's 30+ articles of impeachment

that the Dems *aren't* complicit in....
right?

[lonestarnot]

20. Now about that blackmail bullshit.

:D

[Uncle Joe]

25. I don't see this as eliminating the use of blackmail, I believe a combination of motivations

led to this, different strokes for different folks.

Two things are for certain Cheney/Bush had both opportunity and motivation to blackmail certain members of Congress.

Apparently Q-West was approached about illegal wire tapping without judicial approval within months of Cheney/Bush coming to power, up to six or seven months before 9/11. This would present a strong opportunity to gather dirt, whether major or minor, unless someone believes Cheney and Bush's ethics are above wiretapping political opponents.

Iraq was on the the war schedule within 24 hours after 9/11, in spite of no evidence they were behind the attack against us. If nothing else I imagine that would be enough motivation for Dick ( Halliburton) Cheney and George (Saddam threatened my daddy) Bush.

I have no doubt some members of Congress were bought and paid for anyway, but considering the circumstances, I certainly can't eliminate the strong possibility of blackmail and if blackmail was used in the past, it's the gift that keeps on giving.

[BlueJac]

26. Aiding and abetting is their crime.............

plain and simple we have been sold out!! I have had it with the whole fuck bunch of them. It is so easy the know which ones are the crooks. They will be talked about in the history books!

[mmonk]

27. I intend to expose them as much as possible.

[Breeze54]

29. The House must have read this article.

;)

The Kucinich Impeachment Resolution

- Yeas = 238

- Nays = 180

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll492.xml

[Political Heretic]

30. Yup. I am pretty sure this is true. :(

[Canuckistanian]

31. It's Occam's Razor

All things considered, the simplest explanation is the most likely.

The principle states that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor

I believe that kpete's hypothesis is the only logical conclusion.

[Phred42]

32. It is the ONLY thing that explains their behaviour in the past 8 years

"If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains however improbable, has to be the truth."

- Sherlock Holmes

[defendandprotect]

34. Pelosi, Rockefeller, Torture . . Spying . . sickening. .. HOWEVER. . .

is it reasonable to believe that the Democrats agreed to be spied on by Bush

from day one?

Because obviously they would be really stupid if they didn't think this included them!

[KoKo]

35. What's that old "Pogo Thingy?" "We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us.... Sad...n/t

[Greyhound]

36. Do these people have to actually print an open letter to America stating

that they have not, nor will, ever serve The People?

They rolled over, period, and the price will have to be paid.

BTW, isn't this the same strategy that turned government over to the republiks in the 80s.

[spanone]

38. disgusting....a rogue government.

[bertman]

42. Okay, I agree with the premise stated here, what I don't understand is why

THE REST OF THE FRICKIN DEMOCRATS WENT ALONG WITH IT.

There were a few who resisted, but most went right along with the plan. That is an indictment of every one of them who was willing to stand with Pelosi, Reid, Rockefeller (God knows if we don't have a clue that a FUCKING ROCKEFELLER IS A FASCIST then we have lost our collective minds), Harmon, Hoyer and the rest of the bastards.

THIS IS SYSTEMIC. It's gonna take an ENEMA OF BIBLICAL, EPIC PROPORTIONS TO CLEAN OUT THIS FESTERING MESS.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EnviroBat]

62. Thank you for having the cajoles to say what many of us are feeling.

I'd personally like to see them all suffer massive brain hemorrhages. With the power of remote viewing, and a collective conscious, all things are possible.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

45. who exactly is going to hold the Bush admin. accountable then?

[jazzjunkysue]

48. The dems are complicit and Barack knows that. Remember that when you're

ready to crucify barack for not being librul enough-He's all out there on his own.

It won't help if he doesn't win by a landslide.

[MonkeyFunk]

49. No

they can just count to 67.

[mdmc]

57. thank God for that

[opihimoimoi]

50. I guess I am going to vote for Bob Barr then...fuck um all...go Barr

[Imagevision]

51. Is this the reason the Bush has gotten away with so much for so long?

Creating a war for oil, that wins the grand prize but the dipshit hasn't even secured the oil rights yet and Obama is getting ready to put his lights out on taking over Iraq. (or, "until we win in Iraq")

[Missy Vixen]

52. kpete, thank you for this

I was wondering if I had to adjust the fit of my tinfoil chapeau, but it seems I have lots and lots of company.

It's time to throw the bums out.

Julie

[Winston.]

53. Alternatives

Maybe it's time to stop making excuses for them and at least look at alternatives such as Cynthia McKinney and the green party.

[EV_Ares]

64. Thats kind of what I am thinking. I mean when you those such as Pelosi leading this congress the

way she has and they have made the choice to follow her down that path. That is where you have to make individual choices not party choices and I don't mean those Independents such as Lieberman. It is really disappointing to me how Pelosi turned out and the democrats in this congress. However, what do you do? You do as you have suggested.

[Double T]

55. The truth hurts a lot! "D"emocrats acting with and like rethugs.

I will always be a "d"emocrat and NOW with no political party affiliation; the 'do less than nothing' congress controlled by "D"emocrats are a disgrace to core "d"emocratic principles. ANY "D"emocrat voting in favor of the FISA bill should be removed from office! GREAT POST, thanks!

[biermeister]

58. there's no way things could have become so fucked up

without a lot of help from people in both parties.

[disndat]

59. We should support

Cindy Sheehan's candidacy running for Pelosi's place in San Francisco. Don't get mad, get even!

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

60. Through process of elimination, this is starting to look like the answer.

Sad, creepy, scary.

It makes you believe that the majority are compromised in some form or another.

Lately, I have been most annoyed and irritated with Conyers. He loved to pretend to be the big truthfinder with his basment hearings when the Dems were the minority - now that he's the head of the Judicial Committee and has actaul supoena power, his fire breathing is just bad breath.

[geiger]

61. I have said this repeatedly on this forum. eom

[mntleo2]

66. Here's what a high profiled Dem should do ...

...confess they knew, but emphasize with all they've got that, at the time, they were being steamrolled with a 12 year Republican majority ~ 7 years in all three branches of government where Democrats were left out in the cold and not allowed to participate. They have a ton of examples of that to use: Cheney's ultra-secret negotiations with the Enron-types around energy where he refused to allow to be open and even say who was there, literally being pushed out of committee meetings with the doors locked leaving them standing outside, hearings on important issues such as war crimes that were relegated to the dark rooms in the basement (such as when Randi Rhodes testified before the hearings that Conyers ran), the administration's refusal to even respond after the Dems WERE in control, the list goes on and on.


This is just ridiculous that they would be shaking in their boots because they "knew". So what? They had no power at the time, the power had been confiscated at the door and Dems were merely window dressing.

Yes they could have spoken up and raised a ruckus ~ but who would have heard them? The media was intent on missing white girls and shark attacks. Anyone against Bu$h and his ilk were demonized by the Rethugs AND the press. All it would have done is ruin the Democratic positions they clung to. They would have been labeled as kooks ~ as some have been and are, like Dennis Kucinich and Ted Kennedy. The Democratic Black Caucus was completely ignored, nobody was listening, and whomever got a mentioned was sneered at ...


Sometimes I wonder at the short memories of people ~ particularly the ones who personally lived through it as these Dems have experienced. As someone with little power who has been watching politics for a l-o-o-o-on-g time, I will never forget those times!

Sheesh!

Cat In Seattle

[kmac3]

68. Sad but true . . .

Put all of these comments in a bag and when blended the results come down to 1 major point.

This is the end result of allowing Unitary Executive Power. Over the past 7 1/2 years Bush and his cabal have everything sewed up tighter than a tick to prevent any of these criminal acts from ever being prosecuted. :rant:

[windoe]

69. New lines should be drawn over this issue-

Democrat and Republican do not apply, only 'Corporate and Constitutional' or something of that nature. This calls for new language, in order to have a more precise discussion about this. We need to do our own 'framing.'

Americans either are for the rule of law as previously agreed upon or not. I think that if most Americans were made to understand this crucial issue framed in a way that appealed to both parties, without any form of divisive language about race, class and lifestyle and understood that the government and military have been infiltrated by a diseased rogue element, they would join in with us to impeach and indict.

This fight to get our country back must include everyone, everyone must know what is at stake for the future of their children.

edited to add: This issue is also not about whether this is a Christian nation or not, or whether or not gay marriage is legal or not, or abortion should be legal or not, or whether medical marijuana should be legal or not. All of these issues relate to ONE agenda, and this is complete control over the population-- and the FIRST people that need to get in line are the ones who are the hardest ones to control, the ones that live the most free lifestyles, people who are the most free sexually, people who use mind expanding drugs, and people who live the most independent lifestyles. Also people who do not speak the language, or who have been subjugated due to race in the past are the hardest to control.

This would explain their tolerance, enabling and support (and dare I say invention) of the most fundamentalist cults in this country--because these organizations MANUFACTURE true believer types who are the most ruthless, programmable and controllable humans. These people, (including fundamentalists like the Taliban, Al Queda) can be incited to fight their dirty wars and create chaos in the world so they can grab power.

We have got to get a clue and spread the word so people understand the big picture. :rant:

[slipslidingaway]

71. Torture and illegal wiretapping, nobody cares about that...

:(

Jonathan Turley

"I mean, the Democrats never really were engaged in this. In fact, they repeatedly tried to cave in to the White House, only to be stopped by civil libertarians and bloggers. And each time they would put it on the shelf, wait a few months, they did this before, reintroduced it with Jay Rockefeller's support, and then there was another great, you know, dustup and they pulled it back.....


Well, there's no question in my mind that there is an obvious level of collusion here..."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25283004/

[orleans]

72. shit. one minute too late to recommend. well, i'm doing it in spirit. n/t

[redqueen]

74. Yes - THIS is why they don't want to only discuss the ONE article of impeachment.

They helped lie us into war.

[ladywnch]

75. this is the conclusion I came to some time ago. If the Dems bring down the Reps

the Dems will go down too. Time to just clean house and start fresh with fresh new bodies. won't happen, but needs to.