Question to Assist Research: Confederate Flag Perception

[litlady]

Hello all. I am working on some research that discusses issues related to teaching including regionality and specific subject matter. Rather than explain what direction I am going or the other issues associated with this subject, I was hoping as many of you as possible could answer my questions here to assist. This is a progressive forum so the answers may be indicative of that but I think it would be helpful to gauge the responses anyway.

Question 1: What region were you raised in? (Can be a general region or specific state or city, etc)
Question 2: What region do you live in now?
Question 3: What was your first exposure to the Confederate flag?
Question 3: What is your perception of the Confederate flag? - answer in any length you desire but the more thorough the better - you may use historical references or answer "why" you have that perception if you want to - that will assist as well

Please no flame wars! I know this is a controversial symbol but this is for research so less belligerent responses are more helpful. :)
Thank you for your assistance.

[aikoaiko]

1. The "battle flag" (I think it was virginia's) is not the stars and bars.

this is "stars and bars"



edited abit

[litlady]

3. Edited post to reflect the flag being discussed, thanks

:)

[aikoaiko]

2. Ok, here are my answers

Question 1: NJ outside of NYC
Question 2: Southeast GA
Question 3: Dukes of Harzaard
Question 3: Context is important, but most of the time I see people using it to denote that people are happy being rednecks or living the Southern lifestyle. Other times I see it used as an emblem of anticivil rights hate.

[Raine1967]

4. My answers

Question 1: What region were you raised in? (Can be a general region or specific state or city, etc)
New York State

Question 2: What region do you live in now?
Atlanta, Georgia

Question 3: What was your first exposure to the Confederate flag?
High School; Social Studies Class

Question 3: What is your perception of the Confederate flag? ("stars and bars" or "Confederate battle flag" - you know the one I mean)- answer in any length you desire but the more thorough the better - you may use historical references or answer "why" you have that perception if you want to - that will assist as well

I have lived down here for 2 years. I was taught that the civil war was a stain upon our nation. When I came down here I saw there was a celebration by some (not all... please bear with me, I am NOT a damn Yankee) that the war never really ended.

There is a group here in georgia that want the stars and bars BACK as the state flag. I am still trying to understand why people embrace an image that for me represents slavery.

As a person who grew up in the north, we were taught the Civil War is not the pride of the nation, and it seems to me, that many people embrace this image as southern pride without understanding what the war was really all about.

[nosmokes]

5. It's a sad piece of cloth

1)Alabama
2)Oregon
3.1)Very young
3.2)While it certainly has historical reference, that is far outweighed and overshadowed by the overt racist meanings the flag has come to symbolize. To continue to display it and claim it as a symbol of pride in heritage or ancestry is disingenuous in my book. Even worse is having it incorporated as part of official seals or current state flags or flown on public land in places of honor. It's a direct slap in the face of those who were enslaved and their descendants and for all of us who would like to sincerely seek racial equality in this country. The confederate flag belongs in a museum or in a box, not on a pole in the breeze.And I speak as someone eligible for membership in the sons of the confederacy.

[Obamanaut]

6. There are many in the South who don't know that there were

several designs adopted for the official flag of the Confederate states. Here is a good site for your perusal http://www.confederateflags.org/.

I am from the south. Often when I see a pick up truck with the flag in OP on its front bumper, it will be upside down (the pointy side of the stars should be facing up). From time to time I have pointed out this error, asking the person if he/she knows anything about the various confederate flags. The response is usually something like "Huh?"

questions 1 & 2 north central Fla
question #3 seems like they've always been around
question #4 it is simply a piece of cloth, but one that many who have it draped on their fences, hanging on poles in yards, along the interstate, or in various forms on their vehicles denotes some sense of racism rather than the common meme of "heritage, not hate."

[Edweird]

7. *

1. Memphis Tn.
2. South Florida (Fort Lauderdale/Miami area)
3. At home as a child. Stored in airtight containers in a closet next to weapons my ancestors fought with. It wasn't glorified or revered, but it was discussed. It was also covered in grade school. Tennessee history was a required class.
4. I have very mixed feelings about it. I don't own one or possess any civil war swag. It is a very controversial symbol and some today are using it to bully others and I think that's wrong. I'm a freak, I live on the "wild side" and I'm married to a brown girl. The bullies that use that symbol have no love for me. Nor I, them. On the other hand, my grandparents (Father's side) ingrained a strong sense of pride in my family name, it's history, and my ancestors accomplishments. That symbol (good or bad, right or wrong)is a part of my family's history.

[Clark2008]

10. Can I basically "ditto" you except that I was

born in Knoxville, TN and still live here.

My husband is "brown," as he's Jewish - but the part about it provoking mixed feelings is true to my case, as well.

[underseasurveyor]

8. Answers

1) Born and raised in Southern California. Have lived in Arizona, Colorado, Iowa.
2) Currently live in Southern California.
3) First exposure, damn that was long ago but I'm pretty sure it was in the early 70's when I first started hanging out with the biker crowd. It was quite common to see on the walls in houses and hung in garages.
4) My initial perception and understanding was that the c-flag was more a symbol of a rebellious nature and life style which, sadly I admit, lasted into the late 80's or early 90's.

Of course I have since amended my perception and opinion of what that flag is.

[crickets]

9. .

Question 1: What region were you raised in? (Can be a general region or specific state or city, etc)
SW Georgia

Question 2: What region do you live in now?
Have lived in several other regions of the US since, some for extended periods, but now live in SW GA again

Question 3: What was your first exposure to the Confederate flag?
Learning/reciting the "pledge of allegiance" to the Georgia flag for grade school assembly

Question 3: What is your perception of the Confederate flag?

I've never been comfortable with it. I wasn't quite sure why, but something bothered me about it from early on, long before I knew where it came from. That symbol was the front license plate, the rear window sticker, and the T-shirt of choice for people who made me nervous when I was small and who still send me walking the other way now that I am grown.

When I as in my early twenties, I got a letter from the Daughters of the Confederacy. I threw it away, partly because of the mindset of people who continue to fly that flag for all that it stood for then, as well as those who fly it for what it stands for now. I'm aware of my family's history and have no wish to erase or forget it, but my family is club enough for me on that score.

Not all, but most of the people who loudly claim that flag as historical relic strike me as the people who aren't willing to let history go as part of the past. It was a relief when my state FINALLY got rid of it, yet there are still people who fly it on their cars and in their yards out of stubborn refusal to admit that they themselves are part of the crowd who have changed it from war relic to racist symbol.

It could have been an historical flag much like any other historical flag in our country, albeit one with a sad history. It isn't, and now it never will be. Any sad or bad feelings I have about it should be because of the war it was flown in, but for the most part they aren't.

I hate that flag.

[Brewman_Jax]

11. Answers

1) Decatur, GA (metro Atlanta area)
2) Dunwoody, GA (metro Atlanta area)
3) TV shows
4) Hate, anti civil rights, revisionist history. This chagrins me more because I am a member of one of the targeted demographic groups.

[treestar]

12. Answers

Question 1: What region were you raised in? Mid-Atlantic seaboard, border state (Civil War - slave state that did not secede)
Question 2: What region do you live in now? Same
Question 3: What was your first exposure to the Confederate flag? School.
Question 3: What is your perception of the Confederate flag? - It is a negative symbol, certainly, not the swastika, but still stands for a way of life that included something as wrong as slavery. There's no reason for a present day Southerner to feel ashamed about that, but it does seem wrong to me to insist on any use of this symbol today. I don't believe it means states' rights for a minute, and it is obviously offensive to African Americans, so it should be treated like a swastika would, in the sense of not being used or being shunned.

[Winterblues]

13. IMO this is a symbol of TREASON of the highest order.

I was born in Tennessee but raised in Pacific Northwest and to me the flag and any other Confederate flag represents TREASON. It has also generated into a symbol of unadulterated hatred the same as the Swastika. IMO it is an utter American disgrace to fly such a flag..

[DearAbby]

14. Symbol of Rebellion

Question 1: What region were you raised in?

Colorado

Question 2: What region do you live in now?

Colorado (I can't stray from those mountains.

Question 3: What was your first exposure to the Confederate flag?

Mom was a History buff. She passed the bug onto me. She took me to a museum as a child. It was old Fort Garland. It had some Civil War exhibits. I gazed at a letter from Abraham Lincoln. And I was fascinated. From that day forward, I started a hobby of reading anything regarding the Civil War.

Question 4: What is your perception of the Confederate flag?

The Confederate Flag is a historical part of our history as a nation, but is not a part of it...It is a flag of rebellion, insurrection.
Today it is a symbol of those who can't let go of the past. Also a symbol of hate. That flag should never be flown. The Southern states are a part of this country, and only ONE FLAG should be flown.

[LeftinOH]

15. My answers

1. Northern Ohio

2. Northern Ohio

3. Elementary school era (1970s). I saw it on stickers on cars, in pickup truck rear windows, on iron-patches that were put on kids' denim pants and jackets, etc.

4. Puzzling, because we were living nowhere near the South, and by then I was learning the fundamentals of the North vs South struggles in their historical context. Also, the ROOTS miniseries was all the rage, and all the kids were watching it and talking about it at school. I asked my parents why there were so many confederate flag images in our area, and the response was 'beause there are so many damn hillbillies around here.' As I grew up I began to realize that all too well.. especially when other kids would talk about "going UP to" Kentucky/Tennessee/West Virginia, etc to see their relatives. Yes- an alarming number of them always went 'up' South on their summer vacations. I clearly recall one kid in later elementary school who occasionally made comments like "the South's gawn' raahze agin"..which I found baffling, since I simply felt that, hey -you live here now, you're 11 years old.. get over it. Thing is, our relatives were also from those same areas, but I had no special affinity (nor antipathy) for the South, or for Southern culture in general. Maybe it depends on the parents.

[csziggy]

16. My answers

Question 1: What region were you raised in? (Can be a general region or specific state or city, etc) Central Florida
Question 2: What region do you live in now? North Florida
Question 3: What was your first exposure to the Confederate flag? It was so far back I can't remember. There were always those who had one around, especially during the late 50s and early 60s when desegregation was taking place.
Question 3: What is your perception of the Confederate flag? I do not understand either the people who cling to it as a symbol of an attempt to tear apart this country or the people who use it as a symbol of racism. I see it as a symbol of treason and intolerance, two things that should not have a place in this country. I do not believe that anyone can realistically call it a symbol of American history - it is a symbol of insurrection.

[ForrestGump]

17. Just the good old boys...

Question 1: What region were you raised in? (Can be a general region or specific state or city, etc)
Outside the US.

Question 2: What region do you live in now?
Las Vegas, NV.

Question 3: What was your first exposure to the Confederate flag?
Can't remember...way back, on TV and in books and so on.

Question 3.5: What is your perception of the Confederate flag?
When I first came to the US I spent a bit of time traveling through the South, and when I was in Plains, GA, I bought a little confederate (battle) flag as a souvenir. I stuck it on the outside of the little car I was in at the time, traveling for that time with an American dude I knew from overseas, and called it a 'Confederate staff car' (I was 20 years old and the irony of representing a long since lost and dead cause seemed interesting). The dude with me pointed out that perhaps I should stow the flag, and that it was not liable to endear us to any locals of African heritage. The thought of that quite literally did not even begin to occur to me, though when he pointed that out I realized the link.

Where I was born and raised, the Confederate flag was exclusively a symbol of rebellion...you know, the idealized James Dean and Elvis kind, usually tied in with one of those pop icons or someone similar or linked to the kind of southern rock that was produced by southerners who were definitely not paleolithic racists. Its appearance on the General Lee, in The Dukes of Hazzard, only compounded the idea that the flag was by then relegated to the role of prop for harmless fantasies of generalized rebellion, the kind associated with people like the Dukes 'sticking it to the Man.' In fact, someone even gave me a patch that had a representation of Elvis' head superimposed on the flag, and I've seen the same for James Dean (who wasn't even southern) and others. Now, working on the Las Vegas Strip, I see a lot of confederate flags as tattoos or adornments on clothing worn by people from Europe and japan, especially, most abundantly among the many ardent rockabilly fans I encounter here. I suspect these people have a perception of the battle flag that's like my original one. And, really, such symbols only have the power that we accord them and, at least overseas, that flag does not generally seem to be a racist symbol but a symbol of that general sense of rebellion (never mind that, usually, it's all played for mere effect and there's not much real rebellion going on).

So, yeah, my initial view of the flag was pretty much one of cluelessness. And this was on the heels of my studying American history, with a further course of study of black American history, in university in my home country. I understood a great deal about the USA, pretty much understood its structure and history, but the whole Confederate flag thing eluded me...just never crossed my radar screen. On top of that, it's a fairly striking and attractive design that's aesthetically appealing regardless of its history.

That little epiphany in Georgia 23 years ago stuck, though. As fate would have it, I was living in that great state during the debate over the State flag, and its transition to the new design, and I was one who thought perhaps they should just leave the battle flag on there for the sake of history UNTIL I learned that it was only added in 1956 as a transparent response to Federal desegregation efforts. Again, it's the intent of the representation of the flag, not the mere fact of it, that I think is important. I'm glad they changed that state's flag, because what I thought was an artefact of history turned out to be a symbol of hate and divisiveness.

These days I tend to remain a little open-minded about the flag popping up here and there. People from other countries, and even people from places like the West coast and similarly removed areas, aren't necessarily ardent racists for showing the flag in some way or another. The Harley posers I see who have the flag emblazoned on their silly little 'helmets' or on those leather vests may or may not be racists (in my experience, many are -- more likely to be terrible misogynists, though -- but for some I suspect it's just an element of their poserness). And I'm sure that some (the Duke Effect...Luke and Bo, not David) use it as a symbol of pride in their southern heritage or in their benign redneckiness, with no overt racist message intended. In general, though, I see the Confederate battle flag as a symbol of intolerance and hatred, mostly racial hatred, and I tend to think the worst of drivers of trucks and so on that have the flag as a sticker or flying from the antenna. By now, it seems that most Americans should have caught at least a whiff of the controversies over the flag as a component of state flags, so I think the odds are decent that those who fly them these days do so either because they pride themselves on being obnoxious or because they're racist scum. Again, though, I've seen too many exceptions to this -- myself included -- to totally rule out giving the offender the benefit of the doubt.

Basically, I see the battle flag as a sad thing: an honorable symbol (and, yes, though the Confederacy were essentially the bad guys as history proves out, the men who fought and died under this flag cannot be considered evil) that was co-opted by the Klan and other hate groups and is now, like it or not, entrenched as a symbol of racial and other intolerance and hate.

[JerseygirlCT]

18. Answers

*Northeast

*Northeast

*I don't know the first time I saw one.

*Entirely negative connotations. Usually signals to me in this day someone who steadfastly and proudly holds to a bigoted point of view - and more than that, one that's intentionally hurtful and "in your face".

[litlady]

19. Thanks for all the responses so far!

:)

[williesgirl]

20. Answers:

1) Youngstown, OH
2) Mid-Atlantic Region - rural, 1-1/2 hrs West of Wash DC
3) Grade/High school - not much emphasis on it as I recall, never actually saw one in NE OH growing up
4) I find that flag very offensive. To me, it represents not only slavery but oppression of all minority groups including women. I'm only 30 minutes from Fairfax County (used to live there while still working) and yet, it's like the deep South in many ways. Beautiful, rural mountainous area but you still see many of these damn flags. There's one down the road from me and it pisses me off every time I have to drive by. It's changing very slowly, but only because many from Fairfax County are retiring out here. The locals still cling to the old ways - there are churches on every corner, high Repuke voting turnout, get them going on abortion/gay rights etc and they'll come in droves to vote. I think that flag is symbolic of alot more than racial bigotry. We have a very popular local flea market and it's displayed prominently by the owner in the middle of everything. Not sure but my guess is that lots of local high school girls still get pregnant/married very young here. The few who go on to college never return. I first moved here because I took in two abused teens from Wisconsin and didn't think they'd survive in Fairfax County high schools due to wealth and drug issues there. So I moved us out here. I was shocked at the so-called values of their new friends. A real eye-opener for an original feminist!

An interesting aside - I was lucky to be raised by two parents who felt skin color didn't matter. I also raised my daughter similarly. She's now 25 and is even more offended by that flag than I. She has many very close black friends who surprisingly aren't as offended by it as she. They say they're used to it and have learned to ignore it. When they come out here to visit me, they just keep a low profile. I guess it's ingrained by now, but very sad that they automatically are leery of our local sheriff dept etc. They actually laugh at being the only black folks in the restaurant when we go to dinner - not used to it, but expected it. I'm not sure that their reaction is indicative of all black young adults or not. None are educated beyond high school if that helps you any. But remember they were raised in either Fairfax County or DC where that's definitely not the case.

Hope this helps your research a little.

[litlady]

23. Interesting points, thanks.

[Rockholm]

21. My Answers....

What region were you raised in? (Can be a general region or specific state or city, etc)
Charleston, South Carolina (where the whole shebang started)

Question 2: What region do you live in now?
The North Shore of Boston

Question 3: What was your first exposure to the Confederate flag?
Grew up with the flag. I was a Citadel brat. My blood ran Bulldog Blue until it was my turn to go to college. The battle flag was everywhere during football games.

Question 3: What is your perception of the Confederate flag? - answer in any length you desire but the more thorough the better - you may use historical references or answer "why" you have that perception if you want to - that will assist as well
My perception has changed. As a kid, there was nothing wrong with it. As other folks have posted, along with US history, we learned South Carolina history. I was taught that "we" were right. Anyway, I have been in the North since the mid 1980's, my thoughts on the flag have changed. Yes, it is a historical flag, one that does bring pride to many. It is a flag with deep meaning and symbolism. It means different things depending on where you are. I get that. There is a vehicle that I see around town. This person probably left Massachusetts and now sports New Hampshire tags. On the back window of his truck is a confederate flag, the entire back window of his truck, mind you. Screen prined or something. To me, he is nothing but a racist. A white-trash racist. Anyone from New Hampshire with a Confederate flag is sporting that as a racist symbol. If some "good ole boy" in Horry County, SC has one on his truck, he is probably a redneck. Maybe not a racist as the guy in NH.

As I have been know to say, a southerner by birth, a yankee by choice.

Good Luck with your research!

[IndianaJones]

22. heh, VMI here. I'm thinking we both saw plenty of the stars and bars. nt.

[Book Lover]

24. My answer

1: NYC
2: SF Bay Area
3: Probably the Dukes of Hazzard
4: Makes me think of a white southern man. Note I do not say gentleman.

[ColbertWatcher]

25. My answers, thank you for the question.

Question 1: What region were you raised in?

American west

Question 2: What region do you live in now?

American west

Question 3: What was your first exposure to the Confederate flag?

don't remember, but lately it has mostly been online

Question 3: What is your perception of the Confederate flag?

stubborn racism and hate

[litlady]

26. Any more?

:)

[RB TexLa]

27. Mine

Question 1: Louisiana
Question 2: Texas and Louisiana
Question 3: Don't remember
Question 4: It's just a sign of ignorant or stupid trash.

[ieoeja]

28. Answers

1. Raised on a farm in southern Indiana.

2. Spent four years in college then 2 in suburban hell before moving to Chicago in 1987.

3. I do not recall my first exposure to the confederate flag. Most likely in history books. Possibly as decoration.

4. Outside of obvious historical context, I originally perceived the flag in modern day society as symbolic of a rebel spirit, e.g. hippies, James Dean, American, etc. However, I am 46 years old, have met a lot of people who are fond of that flag, and without a single exception they have been racists. Or to quote them they are, "not racist, but...".

[scheming daemons]

29. Same reaction I have when I see a swastika.

It represents a world-view that is despicable.

Symbols matter.


And why do we tolerate the flying of flags on our government buildings that represent countries that we defeated in war?

The Confederacy is a nation we defeated in war. We should not be flying their flag.... not anymore than we are flying the swastika or the Japanese rising sun.

[litlady]

30. Good points...

[litlady]

31. Forgot to mention... you can message me if you don't want to write your responses here.

Whatever works. :)