HHS Moves to Define Contraception as Abortion

[margotb822]

In a spectacular act of complicity with the religious right, the Department of Health and Human Services Monday released a proposal that allows any federal grant recipient to obstruct a woman's access to contraception. In order to do this, the Department is attempting to redefine many forms of contraception, the birth control 40% of Americans use, as abortion. Doing so protects extremists under the Weldon and Church amendments. Those laws prohibit federal grant recipients from requiring employees to help provide or refer for abortion services. In the "Definitions" section of the HHS proposal it states,


"Abortion: An abortion is the termination of a pregnancy. There are two commonly held views on the question of when a pregnancy begins. Some consider a pregnancy to begin at conception (that is, the fertilization of the egg by the sperm), while others consider it to begin with implantation (when the embryo implants in the lining of the uterus). A 2001 Zogby International American Values poll revealed that 49% of Americans believe that human life begins at conception. Presumably many who hold this belief think that any action that destroys human life after conception is the termination of a pregnancy, and so would be included in their definition of the term "abortion." Those who believe pregnancy begins at implantation believe the term "abortion" only includes the destruction of a human being after it has implanted in the lining of the uterus."

<snip>

As the HHS proposal proves, the absence of fact or evidence does not slow anti-abortion movement attempts to classify hormonal contraception as abortion. With HHS' proposal they have struck gold. Anyone working for a federal clinic, or a health center that receives federal funding -- even in the form of Medicaid -- and would like to prevent a woman from accessing most prescription birth control methods has federal protection to do so. As the HHS proposal details,

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cristina-page/hhs-moves-to-define-contr_b_112887.html

Honestly, I don't know if we'll make it to November. The right is doing just about everything it can to get its last digs in before we vote them out. Absolutely crazy. And still, if they're so pro-family, where are their family policies such as universal health care, universally available day care, living wages, equal pay for equal work, etc.?

[niyad]

1. k & r for this most important topic

[margotb822]

139. Thinking about it

I would say that it is my most important issue because it represents so much more (and, that's big considering that I'm in the military). But, why would I want to fight for freedom in another country if I don't have it at home.

Unfortunately, I think we're in that generational lull where women today we're raised post Roe v Wade. There's a complacency that leaves us open to attacks that chip away at our rights.

[Iris]

2. My God. How far backwards do we need to go?

Just saw a report last week that the teenage pregnancy rate is up for the first time in years. Who thinks this kind of shit is a good idea?

[hootinholler]

14. I vote for 1776

Back then we could just shoot them.

-Hoot

[druidity33]

18. seen John Adams?

watching the HBO series now, via Netflix. Good stuff. 1776 was pretty harsh though.

:)

[salguine]

57. Personally? I vote for 1789. But in Paris. A good dose of that here, now, might work wonders.

[cliffordu]

59. Now you're talking.

[Art_from_Ark]

78. But the end result was the Reign of Terror,

and then the ascension of the dictator, er, emperor, Napoleon, then full circle back to the Bourbon family.

[Chulanowa]

128. Way I see it...

I'd rather have a dictator who comes out and goes "Hey, guys, I'm dictator now" rather than this sniveling behind-the-curtains shit. And at least Napoleon had a sense of style.

[salguine]

164. I'm very much aware of what followed, believe me. But the way

things are now, I don't see anything short of that being sufficient to return this country to the People. If I thought there was even a reasonable chance of such an uprising cleaning out Washington, I'd be willing to risk a Robespierre-esque aftermath; I think it'd even be worth the risk of my not surviving it personally.

[SammyWinstonJack]

91. !

:thumbsup:

[tridim]

3. The GOP is an abortion.

Fuck them.

[tblue37]

48. In the case of the GOP, maybe we could make abortions retroactive . n/t

[babylonsister]

4. Here's the NYT article on this; this is truly nuts.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3620456

[MadrasT]

5. Please

Please, please tell me I've slipped into the Twilight Zone. This *has* to be a weird parallel universe.

(doesn't it?)

k/r

[awoke_in_2003]

62. If it were only so

unfortunately, this is what this country is becoming:

Welcome to DU

[Blue Gardener]

74. Enough of the Red State-Blue State crap

Just because the repubs very narrowly won Iowa in the 2004, does not mean we live in "dumbfuckistan". I love my state, and wouldn't think of living anywhere else. The recent devastating floods proved to me just how wonderful and compassionate people are here in the Midwest. Nobody asked about politics, religion, or race when sandbags needed filled to protect homes and businesses.

[awoke_in_2003]

84. "compassionate people are here in the Midwest"

Yet they (just like the fucked up state, Texas, that I lived in) voted Bush into office twice. I am a resident of Dumbfuckistan, and wish like hell that I could afford not to be.

[emmadoggy]

125. Actually,

Iowa went for Gore in 2000 and Bush won by .67% in 2004. In the previous four elections, Iowa went for the Dem.

The red state/blue state map is a great way of just erasing and invalidating all of the millions of Democratic voters who live in those states.

[lark]

143. FL actually went for Gore in 2000

But because the Talahasee Repugs led by Jeb doomed us I guess we are Dumbfuckistan central? There are many things I love about FL, but if it weren't for taking care of my very elderly mom, I'd be so out of here.

[awoke_in_2003]

155. No

Texas is Dumbfuckistan central. Florida is close, though.

[Clark2008]

92. They very narrowly won most of those "red" states in the South, too.

The problem is a rural v. urban issue and includes:

1. Lack of factual news reporting in the rural areas. Most rural residents rely on News-Talk on their commutes into cities for work. Those News-Talk stations only offer right-wing programming. And, most rural newspapers are owned by giant corporations with conservative bents.

2. Lack of critical thinking. Why is it so important to prevent Joe and Steve from marrying or preventing a poor woman from seeking alternatives to an unwanted pregnancy if you can't find a decent-paying job, can't pay the mortgage and can't "put food on your family?" It just amazes me that people will constantaly vote against their own interests simply to deny others some rights. But... because of the lack of critical thinking, that's the way they think in the sticks (not everyone, mind you).

[Sherman A1]

86. As a Missourian, I really don't appreciate your map and commentary

What is it said about the word Assume? "They make as *ss out of You & Me".



:thumbsdown:

[ismnotwasm]

6. How sick

Just vile and sick.

[depakid]

7. That's been the far right's goal all along

But the Democrats are too weak and timid to have ever exploited the issue (of course, some of the Southern and lower Midwest "Democrats" probably agree on the point).

[Firespirit]

8. Off to the Greatest.

I was just on Kos and saw this horrible story. What they are promoting is nothing short of murder: I am not even heterosexual, but I am on the pill for a hormone disorder that, left untreated, can result in cancer. As are millions of other women.

The hell with us, I guess.

:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

[femrap]

55. I hope everyone now realizes

how much this administration and its supporters HATE women. And so many others don't care...it's just a 'women's problem.'

Just think of all of the bible thumpers that work at HHS...we've been paying their salaries and I bet they work 2 or 3 hours a day. All of the agencies are filled with them.

[jwirr]

156. Top level yes - ground workers are not rw - they do everything they

can to help even to breaking the law for their client if they have to to help. I know I have been on both sides of the desk.

[femrap]

168. Yes, of course. I feel

for the people who actually care and want to do right by the people.

I want to see a ton of RWers looking for jobs come 1/20/09.

[jwirr]

169. Definitely.

[Hawkeye-X]

176. And unable to find one, and unable to get on welfare

based on their fucked-up vision of the Rethuglican party. Let them eat cake, I say.

Hawkeye-X

[awoke_in_2003]

65. "Human life"

(and I bracket that because until it is born, it is just a parasitic being) only counts when it is in the fetus. Everyone else can go fuck themselves :sarcasm:

[Clark2008]

93. I would fine-tune that just a bit, though.

A baby stops being a parasite the minute it reaches viability. In other words, upon its being developed enough to sustain its life outside the womb (which happens at between 20 and 25 weeks), then it's no longer a parasite.

However, most abortions occur well before that time unless there is a true medical reason to abort beyond then.

[Lance_Boyle]

124. not true

Or would you say a mosquito is only a parasite when it bites, not when it flies?

[awoke_in_2003]

165. Your wording is better

[LiberalFighter]

137. Any medical doctor that is against contraception and prescribing should be board decertified.

[Maat]

9. Anyone who researchs my posts ...

can see that this retired social worker has been warning loudly that this is the direction in which things were headed.

It sickens me.

That's why whenever someone says, "Abortion should be safe and rare," my first question is, "Exactly how do you define abortion?" As both a retired social worker and an adoptive parent, I'm quite familiar with the ramifications. We simply do not have enough adoptive families - by the criteria that count. In other words, plenty of parents want to adopt an infant, but the majority of kids do not come into the system that way. We need many, many couples and single-parents to adopt the kids that ultimately are abandoned by their bioparents, among other situations.

We could eliminate all unintended pregnancies with birth control, AND STILL not have enough adoptive parents. That's why birth control is SO critical. It needs to be easily accessible and well-funded - available to all with no hassles.

By the way, when I was in the classes necessary to adopt, there weren't any "pro-life" conservatives. Funny that - they were more than willing to make the problem worse by precluding access to birth control and reproductive services, but not willing to help with the situation.

[beac]

46. I can't say I'm surprised to hear there weren't any right-to-lifers in your classes.

Their attitude seems to be:

1) Protect the "life" of the zygote at all costs-- including the life of the mother
2) Once born, that baby is on its own
3) Should that baby grow up with so few choices that it ends up making bad decisions, lock it away in prison for "life" and throw away the key!


Right to "life" indeed.

These people make me :puke: .

[Maat]

47. Exactly (n/t)!

[mac56]

94. We love the babies UNTIL they're born!

:banghead:

[eagertolearn]

114. Excactly! Why don't each of these right to lifers each adopt

an "unwanted" or "parentless" child or even better help a family to help themselves so they can take care of their kids. I just don't get it. Yes-occassionally someone doesn't have an abortion (when they almost were going to) and they get this wonderful child who is their reason to fight against abortion. But what about all these other people who have kids and then don't take care of them. Why aren't these people(the anti-abortionists) out fighting for the rights of these kids who are out of the womb and alive!!!! Many time's its these same people who are fighting against abortion who are judging these families unable to care for their kids and even cutting programs that help them.

[lolly]

146. One problem with that solution:

These people should NOT be given more (or any) children to raise in their Jesus Camps.

If I were an unwed mom trying to make the decision on giving my baby up, and I thought one of these bastards might get it, no way.

[eagertolearn]

175. You're right! You mean brainwashing camps! n/t

[lark]

145. They don't give a rats @ss about the fetus

The only thing they care about is power and maintaining that power by pandering to right wing groups. Oh yeah, they also want to accrue more power by giving women no option but to have children, deny them the right to a living wage and you've got a tired and stressed person who doesn't have time to read and discover truths hid by msm. their utilimate goal is them richer and every one else poorer and basically their slaves. These steps they are taking are to get us closer to that environment.

[kimmylavin]

54. I'm not surprised, either.

I always say that if you are anti-choice, you should be handing out birth control on the street.
I've recently amended this to say that you should also be putting massive effort into making adoption cheaper.

These nutters just want to punish people for having sex.

[Maat]

172. Exactly ....

and they want CONTROL and RIGID PATRIARCHY.

[Lorien]

67. Not surprised. I knew two anti-choice parents who said that the would

NEVER adopt a child. "You don't know that kind of people an adoptive child comes from, so why pollute your family with one?" said the wife. Her mother was in the room and she strongly agreed with her daughter (who had had three miscarriages at that point-thus the suggestion).

:banghead:

[comtec]

77. good for her, she gets a darwin award

for protecting the gene pool!
and not poisoning some poor kids mind with her bull shit kind of hate!

[MiniMe]

79. What would have been ironic justice would be if her Mom said "Dear,

I have something to tell you. You were adopted"

[keroro gunsou]

117. speaking as

someone who IS adopted, that lady needs to go fuck herself.

[Maat]

173. She does (n/t)!

[Maat]

171. That's the attitude I'm talking about - very disturbing.

:banghead:

By the way, two SUPERVISORS in Child Protective Services told me, "Why are you doing this - you know where those kids come from," when I adopted (they were 'pro-life' conservatives). It was disgusting.

[beyurslf]

99. So very true. Thank you for adopting.

I have adopted one teenager and I am in the process of adopting 3 others. I cringe every time I hear one of those holier than thou religious zealots say that there is no such thing as an unwanted pregnancy. I see how many kids are in foster care waiting to be adopted for years and years.

If any one tells you they have been waiting on a list for years to adopt a child, there are only a few explanations. If theyare willing to adopt a child from foster care, it is because they have very specific criteria or they have literraly turned down hundreds of kids who they could have adopted. If they are not willing to adopt form foster care, it is because they only want a new born. Most likely, they only want a healthy, non-drud-affected, white baby.

Children are considered "difficult to adopt" (ie: hard to find someone who wants to adopt them) at age 4.

[Maat]

170. Bless you and yours ( in a very upbeat, positive, Universalist way)!

Thank YOU for your positive influence on the World.

[Mister Ed]

10. It's extremely common for a fertilized, unimplanted egg to be expelled at the end of the cycle.

If the right holds power long enough, they might one day be prosecuting women for infanticide on those grounds.

I wish I were kidding.

[MiniMe]

80. Can they legislate against menstruation?

Not that they wouldn't try.

[f the letter]

134. You really have to wonder if they will at this point.

What an embarrassment this stuff is for Americans

[polmaven]

104. I, too, wish you were kidding

but I recall seeing a story a while ago about at least one state - I forget which one - trying to make a law requiring that all miscarriages be reported to LAW ENFORCEMENT! An investigation would allegedly then have taken place to rule out the miscarriage having been the fault of the "mother".

It would NOT surprise me one bit if some bright anti-choicer decided that every "fertile" woman be screened every month to be sure she had not expelled any fertilized eggs.

There are some truly sick people out there!

[madfloridian]

11. Well, we need to be on guard with our Democrats as well.

Be on guard: Sojourners and Democrats for Life abortion reduction plans...leave out contraception

Let us be clear: Reducing the need for abortion is sound policy, and we have both worked in our careers to do so. The pro-choice movement has been promoting such an agenda for the better part of two decades -- often, and ironically, over the opposition of the very people who now claim to espouse it. In fact, Sojourners, the organization headed by Wallis, does not include contraception as part of its abortion reduction strategy, and Democrats for Life, the political group most vocal about abortion reduction, refused to endorse the family-planning provisions of the bill it initiated, "Reducing the Need for Abortion Initiative," also known as the Ryan-DeLauro bill.

And as Howard Dean said in 2004...and maybe will someday be free to day again:

"Democrats shouldn't be crossing party lines to help Republican ideology dominate"

"..Our opponents in Congress are extremists. We're fighting now for the future of our country and the future of democracy. To vote with the Republicans is to let extremism get the upper hand. In the past, our party's own ideal about inclusiveness kept us from having the necessary tools to fight. We need to toughen up. We can't afford to be divided by members peeling off on issues that touch upon our deeply held beliefs.

We don't need to march in lockstep on every vote. But on critical votes that touch on our key issues, Democrats can not abandon their core values. The history of the twentieth century teaches that we must never compromise with extremists."

Page 64, You Have the Power, 2004

We need to be on guard with our own as well.

[defendandprotect]

39. Heard someone talking about a "Democrats for LIfe" group . . .

are they prominent now?

Have I mised something . . . ??

Of course Bonier and Gephardt were big "pro-lifers" . . .

[nosmokes]

12. These people cannot be trusted to do the right thing. It's all about

their agenda of god or jesus or morality or whatever the fuck they were spoonfed or mainlined by their masters on Sunday. I'm sick of it.

[polmaven]

106. Please let's not

turn this into an anti-religion thing. I am a religious person, and I am pro-choice all the way. Always have been. My denomination's "rule book", so to speak, recognizes that this should be left up to the individual woman, as a matter of fact.

[nosmokes]

135. I wish religion didn't hafta be part of this debate, polmaven

but that is where this stuff originates most of the time. My mother believed in choice but was ostracised by many of her socalled good christian friends in UMC for that belief. Thankfully her true friends stuck w/ her, whether they agreed or not. Would that all denominations were as open-minded as your's.

[polmaven]

138. Actually,

I am part of a UMC.

[nosmokes]

151. This was in Alabama where methodists are sorta baptist lite..

:hi:

[polmaven]

158. Well, yeah...

I guess I'm a little spoiled. My congregation is a "reconciling congregation", meaning that we have voted to make a public declaration that whomever you are or whatever your sexual preference may be, you are welcome with us just as you are.

We try, every 4 years, to change the wording in the BOD regarding homosexuality, and this year came within 80 votes!!! We will get there.

[NC_Nurse]

13. I'm so sick of these rat bastards.

:banghead:

[southern_belle]

15. What's next???

:(

[Justitia]

16. This "proposal" means rape victims do not receive emergency contraception at hospitals

because hospitals receive public funding.

[melody]

17. What's next? Compulsory chastity belts? n/t

[kestrel91316]

19. I'm glad I don't need contraception at my age. It would take serious

medical intervention to get me pregnant at age 51.

You young women of childbearing age are gonna have to be the ones to RE-fight this fight. I'm done.

[AllentownJake]

22. If you have a daughter

Niece, or even a friend with a daughter you shouldn't be done. I appreciate you keeping up the fight and I know as a man its none of my business but birth control is one of the keys that has allowed women to get as far as they have since the pill was introduced. Still a long way to go but no need to abandon the progress of the past 40 years.

[kestrel91316]

31. I have a niece. Put she and her generation are gonna have to do the

hard work of yelling and screaming and demanding rights. Been there, done that already.

[Alcibiades]

43. When I think I'm getting old, I think of Pete Seeger

A more relevant example here, though, might be Mary Dennett, who was 56 when they prosecuted her for obscenity for distributing sex education literature she had authored to teens. Older people, particularly women, have taken a leading role in progressive circles since long before any of us were born.

Maybe you can no longer do the screaming, but there's a lot you can do, even if it's only to educate other folks here at DU. :patriot:

[a la izquierda]

76. Why is it none of your business?

Well, actually, that might be none of my business, sorry.
Just sayin' that this is certainly important to my husband, as we do NOT want children any time soon. It is important to men, even homosexual men because they too have sisters, friends, etc., who will be struck hard by this should it ever, horribly, become law.

This government is an abomination.

[lark]

147. I'm 56 and still fighting for my daughter

and every other woman of child bearing age to have the right to control her own reproduction, or lack thereof.

[mudesi]

20. Eventually, masturbation will be considered abortion

I just murdered about 100 million babies. They're trapped between a few sheets of tissue paper.

:eyes:

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

73. 'Every Sperm Is Sacred' -- Monty Python

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47P59ha9k9s

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Let the heathen spill theirs
On the dusty ground.
God shall make them pay for
Each sperm that can't be found.

Every sperm is wanted.
Every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed
In your neighbourhood.

http://www.lyricsdepot.com/monty-python/every-sperm-is-sacred.html

[montanto]

129. And yet,

even if the sperm finds its way to the happy place and conception occurs, a couple hundred million others die in the process. Masturbation? forget about it. Mass murder on an epic scale. Sex should be against the law until God figures out a way for guys to only fire one bullet at the one target. So sayeth me.

[AllentownJake]

21. Contraception

has always and will always be part of the abortion agenda on the right. It's odd because I know many evangelicals on the pill because its ok now to have sex since they are married and they want to family plan and not have 20 children. Most of them are unaware or lied to about the true agenda.

[anitar1]

23. K & R n/t

[ladywnch]

24. there was an article from 2000 called "the only moral abortion is my abortion"

it talks about how many of these pro lifers/anti abortionists have had abortions or brought their daughters in for the procedure (in some cases have had multiple procedures) and literally got up from the procedure called the staff all kinds of names, told them they would all go to hell and the next day were back on the picket line!

I still have the article for anyone who wants it.

[One Taste]

26. i do

want the article that is :)

[ismnotwasm]

53. Here you go

http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.html

I keep that saved

[Nevernose]

56. Good article, and that's common among religious-types

Good article. DU is an amazing place, ain't it? Someone says "Did anyone read this article from eight years ago?" And, sure enough, someone has and hundreds of people get to read it again.

I've got a friend who's an ER nurse. Some of her favorite patients are Jehovah's Witnesses. They won't take the blood, they refuse the blood, they don't want to know about the blood. But that's only when their friends and family are in front of them. When they're talked to in private -- and they're always eventually talked to in private -- they take the blood. They ALWAYS take the blood, and the next day tell everyone they didn't take the blood and it must have been a miracle that they're alive. She claims she's seen this scenario dozens of times.

[ismnotwasm]

89. I've seen the same thing

I'm a nurse as well, and though we deal with JW's who do refuse blood products, a surprising number just don't want their family and friends to know. I'm a renal/transplant nurse, so it can't get surreal with either choice. We administer a lot of blood products.

[redqueen]

105. Thank you. (nt)

[leftynyc]

123. Thank you for that link and

for the foresight of knowing it would be needed to be saved. I will be passing that around and promise to credit a DUer.

[FloridaJudy]

71. Yup

I can personally attest to this. I worked in a clinic that did abortions during the 80's. The same people picketing our front door would sneak in the back when they had a inconvenient pregnancy. It took a major effort for me not to out the jerks when they screamed obscenities at me, slashed my tires and threatened my family, but we had strict confidentiality ethics.

It still blows my mind. If I were so deluded as to picket a clinic, and then needed an abortion, I'd travel out of state to get it, rather than brazenly patronize the very place I'd been picketing. Oh, but of course, when it happened to them it was "different". I honestly think there is something very wrong with these people's brains to be so totally lacking in empathy.

[Lars39]

25. .

[Ilsa]

27. They'll try to quietly get away with this, but way too many women and men

will fight against this. Any man with even a splinter of respect for women in his big toe would oppose this.

[Iris]

103. Any man that doesn't want to become a single parent might support this as well.

Just imagine if these people get what they want. No abortions; no exceptions. If the woman dies, she dies. If she has other children, daddy instantly becomes a single parent.

[ihavenobias]

28. K & R

[Nikia]

29. Do any of these people have medical degrees?

In most cases, hormonal birth control pills prevent there from ever being a fertilized egg. Occasionally, there might be and this might increase the chances that the egg will implant. The religious right people against this object to those occaisions. If they new more about the science of reproduction, however, they would find that even by conservative estimates that over half fertilized eggs by those not taking hormonal birth control don't implant. Most women who have sex regularly over a long period of time during their reproductive years will lose more fertilized eggs if they are not on hormonal contraception than if they are.
Sometimes I wonder what they think of women who serially miscarry. In their minds, would it be better if these women took hormonal contraception or not?

[briv1016]

30. It'll never happen

Contraceptives are big business. Unlike private abortion clinics who act independent of one another, contraceptive companies have money.

[Lars39]

33. We've heard that at every step backwards.

[defendandprotect]

40. Pressure can be put on them in many ways . . because they have so many products approved ...

by government.

And church influence --- especially intertwined with right-wing government --- is

corrupt and effective.

That's how they kept birth control products TABOO all those years til the mid = 1960's . . !!!!

I recall that like 20 years ago we were going to have a male contraceptive?

Where is it?

Could it be that we have 50 different kinds of soaps but only one pill ???

What's also interesting re the pill -- it sometimes is keeping a fertilized egg

from embedding in the lining of the womb . .. i.e., abortion.

Who'll be the judge of that? Or shall they simply outlaw the pill?

[Hekate]

61. Bush has already made it legal for PHARMACISTS to refuse to fill prescriptions for The Pill...

or for Plan B (the "morning after" pill), and anything else that "conflicts with their conscience." Doctors and hospitals are also entitled to refuse to give these prescriptions or to implant IUDs.

It is not now and never has been solely about surgical abortion. It is about the control of women's sexual lives, the punishment by pregnancy of women for having sex, and the control of our lives generally.

Believe it.

Hekate

[defendandprotect]

140. I think it shows their desperation . . . but I'm sure they'll have no problem with VIAGRA . . .

Absolutely ... what we're talking about is patriarchy and its continuing war on women --

birth control/abortion are erasers which the patriarchy doesn't want to be found about!

[MiniMe]

81. Their beef is anything funded by federal dollars. At least thats where they are starting

I wonder if you could oppose federal funding of Viagra for the same reason.

[MadMaddie]

32. And this is why there is a seperation of church and state..

This administration and it's cronies have poisened any program that helps those that need it so they can push their agenda.


No one paid attention when they did this to other countries.....it was destined to happen here. This is the same policy that this administration put in place soon after coming into office for any money given to third world countries, no sex education, no codoms and certainly no birth control.

[defendandprotect]

41. When we're passing taxpayer MONEY onto churches, Separation of Church & State . . .

has been moved to the "dungeon" . . .

[Demoiselle]

42. And this is why I am angry at Obama for touting government support for

..."faith-based" charities. And I'm not too thrilled, either, with his
statement that a woman's mental health is no reason for an abortion.

PLEASE can we not agree, firmly and bravely that church and state should be separate and
that reproductive health care is a matter for a woman and her
doctor and NO ONE ELSE!!!

[AllentownJake]

44. 2 things

Obama's faith based intiative is nothing compared to Bush's. It requires pretty much the old rules.

Most people are opposed to third trimester abortions in this country which what the mental health issue covers not the first and second. Obama has a 100% NARAL rating. Third trimester abortions are a fringe issue and a subject that is open to debate in the confines of Row vs. Wade.

[noiretextatique]

163. not really...3rd trimester abortions are a hot-button issue for religionists

and other control freaks. they are rarely performed, and usually done to save the life of the woman. obama was pandering to those folks, and i understand that he feels he needs to do that.

[MadMaddie]

49. Agreed but I will also add....if these church organizations

are up for governement tax payer money then they should be taxed and audited. The churches would rather be uninvolved then taxed.

[litlady]

34. Incredible - scary stuff.

So the don't want sex education - or birth control - or abortion... Only abstinence or procreation is okay, I know...

:shrug:

[rucky]

35. Every sperm is sacred...

sing it!

[progressoid]

36. Great.

just great.

[Liberal In Texas]

37. Just another reason to get the fundie zealots out of our government. n/t

[defendandprotect]

38. These are crazed people, but corrupt government is entangled with church now . . .

The Vatican at the United Nations acting in concert with Bush and vice versa --

Bush moving the "money-based" faith dollars into their tills . . . !!!

The lie to it all, of course, is as you state . . . the clear lack of concern

for families, women, children.



As long as we have patriarchy, we will have this violence and this war on women.

[earth mom]

52. Don't forget, Obama supports giving money to religious organizations too. nt

[Hekate]

64. Don't forget, Obama has been "blessed" by Planned Parenthood. nt

[defendandprotect]

174. That's good to understand . . . however . . .

Planned Parenthood is a one issue organization ---

they aren't directly interested in Separation of Church & State, though of course

they understand the pressures on government/UN from church.


Women's groups often would drive me nuts over the years because they would back

anyone supporting "choice" even if that person was a Republican -- at times Emily's

List did that! -- or if they were a fascist!

[CreekDog]

45. What's next? Rejecting a pick up line?

:eyes:

[givemebackmycountry]

50. To coin a phrase from our friend Mike Malloy

"Have I mentioned how much I hate these people?"

Remember people, these people are like roaches and they have infested every corner of every government office.
It will take years to weed them all out.

Thanks Monkey, for what you did to this country.

[earth mom]

51. WTF?! Is this even Legal?!

:grr:

[LaStrega]

58. *tears hair* this is unthinkable . thanks shrub et al for taking us to unfathamable depths n/t k/r

[Hekate]

60. Ahhh, the Global Gag Order comes home to roost. On Bush's very first day in the Oval Office...

... he reinstated the Global Gag Order.

That's the one where any US money given to other nations that is earmarked for family planning and women's health may not be used for abortions. But wait, there's more! Any doctor, nurse, or clinic using US money may not even MENTION the word abortion under any circumstances whatsoever. They may not even REFER the woman elsewhere. Rape? Too bad. Incest? So sorry. Fetal deformity not compatible with life outside the womb? Never happens. The life of the mother? You must be kidding.

On Bush's first effing day he slaps down the poorest, most voiceless, most defenseless people on the planet to make his fanatical religious base happy. You thought it couldn't happen here? Think again.

The Global Gag Order has come home to America.

It would be bad karma for me to say what I devoutly wish would happen to George W. Bush in this lifetime. Let's just say that what I pray for is his sudden enlightenment, such that he fully and painfully realizes the extent of the harm he has caused to each individual morsal of humanity.

Hekate

[Overseas]

63. K&R also because it is hard to believe this happens in 2008. /nt

[awoke_in_2003]

66. What kills me about these nutcases

is the ones that thing birth control is against god's natural order have no trouble with people taking fertility drugs. If taking birth control is tampering with that, isn't taking fertility drugs?

[pipi_k]

90. And the really screwed up part...

Many of the women who got pregnant after taking fertility drugs gave birth to at least a few healthy infants, then gave their praise to GOD for allowing it to happen.

WTF?????????


It was God's plan that they be unable to conceive.

Mankind/Science made it possible for them to override God's plan


these people are seriously messed in the head.

[awoke_in_2003]

167. "Science made it possible for them to override God's plan"

shhh, people might think you are an intellectual elitist:)

[Dukkha]

68. time to start retroactive aborting them

:mad:

[JPettus]

69. Actually, I don't think of it as last ditch digs

I think they are making a play on emotional issues to their pro-life base and then will point to the Dems to say we will overturn this issue.

Then, they can get the pro-lifers out to the polls.

In an election year where there isn't a gay marriage or abortion issue on the ballot in the majority of states, they need to try to find something that will get their base out to vote.

The pro-lifers will see this as proof that the GOP needs to stay in office (they won't see it as a bone thrown to them to get their vote in this election) and will come out to fight for the GOP.

[progdog]

107. I have to agree with you.

Abortion and gay marriage are their biggest wedge issues. I don't think they really want to lose them. If they accomplished their goals what would they have to drag out every four years in the last months of the race? JMHO

[Fox Mulder]

70. I'm so fucking sick and tired of these religious whackjobs running...

and ruining our country. :grr: :grr: :grr:

[snot]

72. If they want to remove a foetus

with the I.Q. of a carrot and raise it outside a woman's body, or inside some willing woman's body, fine.

Otherwise, I do not understand why requiring anyone against their will to host another living being within their own -- at great risk to their own health (for many years, the risks to the mother of abortion have been much less than the risks of childbirth) is not the most abject form of slavery ever invented. We have an amendment prohibiting involuntary servitude. I do not understand why it does not apply when it comes to requiring women to subject their bodies to pregnancy and childbirth.

If it were technologically possible to require fathers to host foetus's in their own bodies for 9 mos. at significantly increased risk to their own health, let alone the impact on their job performance and careers, there would be no debate.

[VWolf]

75. Good lord

I read the title and assumed "HHS" stood for some fringe right-wing group. I didn't even consider that it might actually be Health & Human Services. This is insanity.

[bunkerbuster1]

82. The more we expose this crazy shit, the worse McCain and the GOP look

This is the mother of all loser issues for these backward, sexist creeps.

You can get a certain percentage of center-left types to respond to appeals about late-term abortions, and "killin' babies."

That support evaporates and takes a buttload of right-wingers along if you tell women they are going to have to go all over hell's half acre to find a pharmacist who'll fill their prescription on account of said pharmacist's tender sensibilities.

I'd like for us to aggressively persue the slippery slope argument. Start pointing out what'd happen if we allowed any pharmacist to be derelict in their duties and refuse to fill prescriptions because, say, they objected to one company's animal cruelty when testing the product, or another one's contribution to promiscuity (think Viagra...)

[raccoon]

83. If they're going to do that, hand jobs and bj's should be outlawed too.

After all, you're wasting what COULD HAVE BEEN instrumental in the beginning of a human life. :sarcasm:


Betcha that would go over like a lead balloon, huh?

[pleah]

85. K&R n/t

[RainDog]

87. Female control over contraception is probably THE MOST IMP. indicator

of the health of a modern democracy, according to demographic studies of emerging nations... those whose birthrate is falling and whose females have some control over their own parental destinies are those that are moving toward democracy.

so this proposal would indicate yet a further move away from modern democracy for the U.S.?

This would bring both men and women out into the street. This would be a travesty for population control at a time when the planet needs fewer ppl, not more.

I so detest the religious right I could and would spit in the faces of these folks if I got close enough. They are the ENEMIES of females. ENEMIES. There is nothing to say to or about them other than to acknowledge the fact that they want to enslave females and create a sick society.

What is it going to take to rid this nation of the infestation of talibornagains? I hope it doesn't take another civil war, but I will take up arms and fight for the right of my fellow females to live as free citizens in a democracy.

what about you?

[windoe]

88. Women will have to fight for their freedom all over again it seems

and educate the ignorant as to why this is important.

Unwanted pregnancies will never go away, the choice is whether women will be forced in back alleys and self induced deadly methods, or
will they have access to have this done by a clinic with anesthesia, sterility and antibiotics.

In an overpopulated world where women are treated like fair game, is this the world we wish for here, because this is the direction we are going in. Rape by military contractors goes practically unpunished, and films are full of women as prey--as entertainment.

Abortion and contraception are not religious issues, they are human rights issues, to provide women around the world, including here apparently, who live in an environment where men rule and are given license to do as they wish with women, some form of control over their lives.

If you are a man you are entitled to an opinion, by by GODS you are not allowed to dictate to women what to do with their own bodies.

[pipi_k]

95. I sit here and daydream

about a time and place where women who have enjoyed access to birth control no longer do, and they decide to rebel and not have sex with men unless and until the insanity stops.

Lots of different scenarios come to mind, including...


Men are reduced to enforced celibacy or masturbation

or

Men who don't like either of those options decide that Jack in Accounting is looking pretty cute these days

or

All those women who actually agree that birth control is a tool of Satan are going to be awfully busy (and pretty tired out) taking care of the sexual needs of the millions of men who would be affected by this.


I'm still on the fence, though, about whether innocent men (those who advocate for birth control) should be included in the punishment. Although I'm thinking yes, because if they got pissed off enough, they just might decide to murder the idiots who think contraception is Evil Incarnate.

Drastic, I know...

But it's my friggen daydream....


:evilgrin:

[Coexist]

96. so every time my bc prevents a fertilized egg from implanting, its an abortion?

[margotb822]

110. Even if you're not on bc

While it's hard to measure, it is likely that many fertilized eggs fail to implant regardless of bc. So, you're guilty of murder every time nature doesn't work perfectly...

[Joanne98]

97. This has been their goal all along! It's not about abortion, it's about the birthrate.

They're trying to force white woman to have more children. They don't like immigration (brown people) and they need more slaves for "growth". It's always been about MONEY!

[The Backlash Cometh]

98. When will they go away?

[liberal N proud]

100. Are they going to ban Condoms too?

[no_hypocrisy]

102. Probably on the second list.

[sweetpotato]

109. Condoms protect men

No need to ban something that protects men.

Condoms give MEN the choice - so we need them.

[Alter Ego]

101. Does anyone not realize how important it is that we get Barack in the Oval Office yet?

Otherwise we're going to end up back in the era where they made you wash in a boy's urine for a headache.

[Pacifist Patriot]

108. Oh let me guess. My beloved Dave is behind the Weldon amendment.

The man has a hard-on for forcing women to bear children they cannot afford, do not want, will endanger their lives.

[Sheets of Easter]

111. It's only a matter of time until they determine that masturbation is genocide.

[margotb822]

112. Well, that would even it out

Birth Control murder for women, masturbation genocide for men. :sarcasm:

[Terry in Austin]

116. Life begins in the gonads

I think the pro-lifers haven't gone anywhere near far enough -- they are way too soft on the issue, with all their talk about how life begins at conception and "fetal rights" and so on. Since there's no real scientistical measure as to when "life" begins, it's a great opportunity for more right-thinking people to make their stand.

Therefore, I say LIFE BEGINS IN THE GONADS: for every second that you are not busy conceiving, it amounts to murder!

Think about it -- you're killing a whole oak tree when you step on a acorn; how much more awful it is when a human seed goes to waste! Each and every one of those little sperm and egg thingies has a soul, you better believe it.

Furthermore, these facts have been confirmed by divine revelation, which means that I'm right and you're not. So boys, if you go spilling that seed, you're murderers pure and simple, and girls, you are, too, if you let that monthly thing happen

- Jim Bob Billy Roy Custis

Mr. Custis is my favorite source to quote on this issue.

[Karl_Bonner_1982]

150. Therefore ovulation is murder!

We need to either insist that every ovum is fertilized, or sterilize the woman altogether! Stop the murder of meiotic cells!

[Indenturedebtor]

113. Look you cretins! Every sperm is sacred!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47P59ha9k9s

[Vidar]

115. K&R.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

118. Ugh! What the crap is wrong with our HHS?

Basing their definitions on POLLING DATA...?? And we know how reliable THAT is, :eyes:

"A 2001 Zogby International American Values poll revealed that 49% of Americans believe that human life begins at conception."... Morons. How can you define a zygote as HUMAN life? "Life", okay... but "human", I'd take exception to. It seems like 49% of Americans haven't taken a philosophy class either.

[lark]

152. 49% of Americans are idiots?

That would seem about right.

[williesgirl]

119. We need to outlaw organized religion in the US. It makes as much sense. This is BS. rec'd

[Voice for Peace]

120. that would mean outlawing spermicide. ought to outlaw viagra, too, in order to prevent

excess old man sperms from becoming victims of pre-implantation abortion.

[The Doctor.]

121. Someone WANTS the US to be a third-world country, and they're using the idiot religious right

to do it.

Get enough morons whipped up over something and you can do all kinds of damage.


My God... I thought we'd become a society that used facts and reason.

[leftynyc]

122. Has anyone asked Mccain how

he feels about this? After his stammering earlier this week, this should make for some good theatre (not that I want to downplay this at all - it's stuff like this that makes me view republican women as freaks of nature).

[Proud Liberal Dem]

161. Yeah, let's get McCain's position on this issue ON THE RECORD

And then see what happens. He's either going to repudiate this nonsense and take a piss all over the religious whackjobs pushing this BS or he's (gulp) going to come out in support of it which will almost certainly alienate female voters that he so desperately needs. Frankly, IMHO this is a losing issue for him either way, although my guess is that if he's ever challenged on this, he will probably express the same kind of "clarity" that he demonstrated when talking about insurance coverage of viagra as opposed to birth control.
There are so many women out there on the pill (Republicans even I'm sure) and I simply can't imagine that there is suddenly going to be a mass repudiation of "the pill" nor support for "redefining" it as tantamount to getting an abortion (I would love to see a poll conducted on THIS). Maybe we can get some of those so-called former Hilary "supporters" on TV to weigh in on THIS topic and see how badly they really want somebody like McCain and the company he keeps (god forbid) in charge of setting health policies for women for the next 4 years just because their woman Hilary didn't win the Democratic nomination (if they were indeed genuine Hilary supporters to even begin with)?
I wonder if any of the 49% who responded to whatever poll that was about whether or not life begins at conception had any idea about the actual implications of that particular statement and what it might be twisted around to justify?

[xxqqqzme]

126. Are they advocating a return to

the Comstock Act?

'...In 1965, the U.S. Supreme Court case Griswold v. Connecticut struck down one of the remaining Comstock laws, the bans on contraception in Connecticut and Massachusetts....'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comstock_Law

[jeff30997]

127. And here's the next step:

Bunch of insane bigoted morons!!!

:nuke: :grr: :nuke:

[suffragette]

130. Bush has stacked government departments with rightwing appointees

and this type of atrocious policy is the result.

In the case of the appointments of Deputy Assistant Secretary for Population Affairs at the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), there is no requirement for Congressional confirmation over these appointments, so Bush was able to easily place people in these positions who would further the rightwing agenda. This position has oversight of



There was Eric Keroack, who opposed birth control, abortion and comprehensive sex education, was entirely unqualified, and who resigned in 2007 "after Massachusetts officials launched a formal investigation into allegations of Medicaid fraud during his tenure in private practice.
"http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Heckuva_job_Bush_Administration_vaunted_bogus_0515.html

After he had to resign, there was/is Susan Orr.
From http://www.womenshealthresearch.org/site/MessageViewer?em_id=5201.0

Susan Orr Appointed Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary for Population Affairs
On October 15, President Bush appointed Susan Orr Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary for Population Affairs at the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), a position that gives her oversight of federal family planning programs.

Before joining HHS, Orr served as senior director for marriage and family care at the conservative Family Research Council, which opposes family planning, and was an adjunct professor at Pat Robertson's Regent University. In her new role, Orr, who considers contraceptives part of the "culture of death," will be responsible for HHS's $283 million reproductive-health program, a $30 million program that encourages abstinence among teenagers, and HHS's Office of Population Affairs, which funds birth control, pregnancy tests, counseling, and screenings for sexually transmitted diseases and HIV.

Orr has a long record of being against family planning. For instance in 2001, Orr embraced a Bush administration proposal to stop requiring all health insurance plans for federal employees to cover a broad range of birth control.

Given this record of opposition to comprehensive family planning services, women's rights and reproductive health advocates are speaking out strongly against her appointment. Representative Henry Waxman (D-CA) called her appointment "absurd." Unfortunately, Orr’s appointment does not require Senate confirmation


The reason I said is/was is because there's something odd going on with that position. Orr is still listed in it at HHS website:http://www.hhs.gov/opa/about/index.html

However, ThinkProgress ran an article noting she resigned in May: http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/21/orr-resign/

Womenshealthnews picked up TP's article and noted plans that were in the works. Please read this article, it points to the larger plan behind what was just implemented.

http://womenshealthnews.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/why-did-susan-orr-resign-from-population-affairs-post/

The hardest part of all of this is that, as you note, they are actively shoving through major policy changes as rapidly as they can before the election. In addition, they've been politicizing these agencies for a long time now, just like DOJ and Civil Rights Division, by placing people in charge who are against the basic tenets of these areas (very Orwellian). Got to think that the people in charge then hired like-minded staff and forced out through attrition or purged the civil servants who had worked there.

That's how deep this goes. And it will be challenging to root this out, a bit like pulling weeds and needing to be sure you get it all since if you just get the top, it will regrow.

[KrazyinKS]

131. discussion on the Catholic Channel about the Birth Rate

I was channel surfing the other day and heard a question on
what I call the Catholic channel that verified a suspicion of
mine. They asked one of the ministers if they were concerned
about the falling birth rate in Europe and the rising birth
rate among Muslims.  They wanted to know if they were
concerned that Christians would be in the minority soon.  I
think this whole thing is about the politics of birth rate. 
Sounds like a losing game to me. 

[BrklynLiberal]

132. 100 recs for this indication of how important it is to get the Repukes out of the White House

and out of Congress, out of the govt agencies...and eventually out of SCOTUS. We are becoming a backward, third-world nation in every way possible.

[JackDragna]

133. The ridiculous extremes to which this can be taken..

..should scare any American. Does this mean the right is tacitly asserting that married couples have a legal obligation to try to produce children if they're sexually active and of childbearing age? After all, if they're not, aren't they just trying to "prevent life" from existing? Dear God, I hate these people.

[lark]

154. Totally agree and am with you in hate

Think about this - what would happen to someone like a friend of mine? She is relatively healthy but has very high blood pressure and each time she got pregnant she ended up in the hospital, the fetus died and she nearly did. Would she be forced to continue trying to have children and die? I too was told after the birth of my 2nd child that if I had any more children I stood an 85% chance of dying and a 100% chance of never being able to walk again. Would I be allowed to have my tubes tied?

These right wing, nut job, control freak people are pure evil!!

[Boudica the Lyoness]

136. I hate the right wing

I hate them so much it's not healthy for me. Why are they so hell bent on fucking up America?

[RainDog]

141. I hate them too

I think they are enemies of this nation and should be treated as such.

[Cant trust em]

142. Wouldn't that be a nice little lame duck gift to the RW.

How unscrupulous.

[Karl_Bonner_1982]

144. This shows the real agenda.

They're not against abortion, they're against family planning.

If you're opposed to abortion on moral grounds, why not hand out condoms and pills left and right so that there aren't very many unwanted pregnancies to begin with? And then the few that DO happen would be easy to place in adoption.

As someone here already said, this is more against non-procreative, pleasure-centered sex than anything else.

[elehhhhna]

148. So they're quoting a poll from 2001 to justify redefining legitimate medical terms?

Why don't they also cite the % of Americans who "believe" abortion should be safe and legal? They might also cite the % who 'believe" contraception should be widely available and affordable. Wonder why they left that stuff out. Hmmm.

[tyon517izhere]

149. HERE COMES ANOTHER TEENAGE PACT!

OMG! Are we here for self-destruction? HIV IS REAL! Herpes ARE REAL! Teenagers having sex, IS A FACT! Unwanted pregnancies IS HAPPENING! People are still dying from AIDS ! .............. Please visit yes to democracy.com . A new founded group contending with the masses of Anti- democrat, Anti - Obama Racist groups! Join and spread the word. Thanks!

[jwirr]

153. This is blatantly political - they are out after the Roman Catholic vote

as most other denominations do not consider birth control to be abortion. I hope this backfires on them.

[mrs_p]

160. most catholic women

I know are on the pill or use contraception in spite of what the church says...
including me

edit - for clarification

[jwirr]

166. I know but I doubt that the repubs know that.

[Mendocino]

157. So I'm nine months older than my birth date?

Then I can retire from my federal job 9 months earlier. Thanks George!

[Sunnyshine]

159. There are no nice words to describe what is going on here and everywhere, other than...

Fascist agenda.:argh:

[mrs_p]

162. ugh

this makes me so unbelievably angry. i've been gone for a two days and just read this. what can we do to these people? does this have to go before congress first?