You can't take your monkey into wal mart? That's just not right.

[Philosoraptor]

http://www.kansascity.com/news/breaking_news/story/708770.html

...afterall, we have a monkey president!

SPRINGFIELD | A southwest Missouri woman has sued Wal-Mart, local health officials and Cox Health Systems, claiming they discriminated against her and her monkey named Richard.

Debby Rose of Springfield said in the lawsuit that the 10-year-old bonnet macaque helps curb a social anxiety disorder that can cause her to have panic attacks in public.

The suit contends the Springfield-Greene County Health Department lacked the authority to decide that Richard is not a service animal under the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Health officials in 2006 sent letters to restaurants and grocery stores, advising them not to let Rose in with the monkey.

[NightWatcher]

1. she should have put a "git er dun" shirt on the monkey and it would have blended in

have you seen the people in your average rural wallyworld?

[Philosoraptor]

4. My local walmart allows goats, & I got no problem with monkeys.

Last time I went to walmart, a monkey greeted me, so.

[Alter Ego]

2. What was Dubya doing in SW Missouri?

I was under the impression he was supposed to be blaming the Democrats for everything on TV yesterday...

[zanne]

3. Doesn't that make him a service monkey?

If she needs the monkey to function with a handicap, isn't the monkey something like a "seeing eye dog"?

[Philosoraptor]

6. I have a seeing eye kangaroo, but it's not working out too good.

[zanne]

10. Whatsa matter? Can't jump that high? nt

[Philosoraptor]

13. The kangaroo has a cheap walmart helper monkey, so...

[mainegreen]

19. ...

:spray:

[jobycom]

22. Yes.

It's a clear violation of the ADA unless there is some reason her condition isn't legitimate. The ADA requires businesses to make reasonable accomodations, including allowing service animals. I don't think Walmart would even have the right to decide whether her condition was legitimate, and the ADA is very broad--it forbids discrimination against any condition that could be used to discriminate against someone, or any condition that someone could perceive as a disability.

One could even argue that if the woman really believes she has such a social disorder that her belief itself is a form of mental illness which would be protected.

[LiberalFighter]

28. From ADA

Q: My county health department has told me that only a seeing eye or guide dog has to be admitted. If I follow those regulations, am I violating the ADA?

A: Yes, if you refuse to admit any other type of service animal on the basis of local health department regulations or other state or local laws. The ADA provides greater protection for individuals with disabilities and so it takes priority over the local or state laws or regulations.

[aspergris]

29. but

it's not

that's what needs to be adjudicated

there is a governing authority as to what IS or ISN'T a bona fide service animal

I could say I have compulsive shopping disorder, and my pet lizard relieves that disorder

but unless that animal is properly licensed/ceritified as a service animal, I can't assume I can bring it in your store.

Iow, nobody NOBODY is denying the rights of people with disabilities to use a service animal

but in THIS case, the health board DETERMINED it wasn't a service animal

her beef is with the health board, and she needs to appeal

NOT violate their decision and then sue the company that was relying on that decision

that's absurd.

due process matters

[jobycom]

33. See post 28

[LeftyMom]

51. I dealt with this as a property manager.

Unless there's an applicable local law or decision that says otherwise, a service animal is what the customer says it is, and the qualifying medical condition is whatever their medical provider says it is. In a rental property certain reasonable requirements can be made (that the animal has shots, does not pose a danger or annoyance to other tenants- that it's not biting or barking all the time or shitting on the property) but there's very little legal ground to eliminate even obviously bogus "service animals."

[aspergris]

27. but you can't just make stuff up

the health dept, can determine what is or isn;t a bona fide service animal.

or else you could just arbitrarily decide your pet unicorn is a service animal for your compulsive shopping disorder.

under the ADA, businesses cannot deny entry to people with BONA FIDE service animals

and that's a good thing.

But there HAS to be a governing authority for what is or isn't a bona fide service animal, or anybody could bring any animal into YOUR store because THEY decided it was a service animal

you know what? my cat relieves stress and depression. it services me in that regard. does that mean i can bring it into your store? no. it's not a bona fide service animal, despite what I may think

[LeftyMom]

53. If your doctor says it is, it is.

There is no governing authority except the patient's physician. The proper way to deal with this is for the health dept to contact the physician who signed her paperwork for her service animal and ask them where the hell the literature suggests a monkey companion relieves social anxiety disorders, and to ding them for providing questionable, unevidenced care when they can't back that up.

The last thing we need is a situation where every WalMart night manager and health department paper pusher thinks they're an expert on the myriad and frequently very novel uses of service animals, or the medical conditions that lead people to need them.

The responsibility lies with the physician who signed off on such a thing, and the best, least invasive method of controlling the abuses is to impress upon them that they shouldn't sign off on service animal paperwork for every random weirdo who wants a pet but isn't willing to adapt to the restrictions on where that pet is allowed.

[Gato Moteado]

5. it's easy to understand why they don't want monkeys in the store....

the average walmart shopper feels very insecure when they see a more evolved species shopping in the same store.

[Philosoraptor]

7. Primate discrimination is what that is.

[Canuckistanian]

8. Free the monkeys! n/t

[Philosoraptor]

11. hey hey we're the monkeys, & people say we shouldn't be allowed,

but we're too busy shopping, to put any feces down...

[harun]

9. A co-worker of mine a long time ago used to try and pull this "social anxiety disorder"

con with a little toy poodle his wife had. He wanted people to not let the dog in so he could sue them. Nothing new.

[zanne]

12. Social Anxiety Disorder is very, very real. nt

[Toucano]

21. But walking around with a wild animal is not an acceptable treatment.

Service monkeys are troublesome even in their most useful capacity - with severely physically disabled people.

They are not appropriate treatment for a psychological disorder, especially not in a public place.

Monkeys are not domesticated animals. They are wild animals.

[zanne]

42. Are you a psychiatrist? nt

[aspergris]

31. so what

that's not the issue

the issue is, WAS the macaque a bona fide service animal

the health dept said no.

her venue for redress is in the courts and to appeal their decision

not VIOLATE their decision, and then sue the deep pocket business that was RElying on the health dept.

that's ridiculous crap

[cloudbase]

14. If I had a monkey,

I wouldn't take it to WalMart. I hear that there are lots of folks there that like to spank monkeys.

[Philosoraptor]

15. I'd monkey in the mornin, I'd monkey in the evenin', all over this land...

[dysfunctional press]

32. if i had a monkey-launcher...some son-of-a-bitch would die.

nt

[yellowcanine]

16. I can see why they don't want monkeys - monkeys have been known to scratch their butts and then

handle the merchandise. On second thought maybe they should ban men also?

[Philosoraptor]

17. Personally, I'd like to see an all monkey walmart someday.

Just a life long dream of mine.

[jobycom]

18. Interesting lawsuit.

The ADA forbids discrimination for any disability or for any condition that someone could take for a disability or discriminate against, and businesses have to make reasonable accomadations for that disability. If anyone ever diagnosed her with a social disorder, she may have hit the jackpot. Even if not, she's got an interesting case.

This story was written so poorly, though, that it's impossible to know what the heck the story is about. They don't discuss whether the plaintiff's illness was diagnosed, or whether the monkey was suggest by medical professionals, or what exactly the county health officials said in their letters. Did they claim that the woman had no valid condition, or that the monkey was not a service animal, or that the monkey was a health risk around food sources, or all three of those things? If they claimed all three, Walmart can argue they were just following local official's orders, so I wonder if they are included in the suit just to force them to side against the local officials. They could testify that they wanted to let the monkey in the store, but were ordered not to, which would make the county look bad.

Just my random thoughts. Probably wrong, as always.

[Philosoraptor]

20. There's an interesting precident in 'Kong vs. Piggly Wiggly' in 1933.

Wherin King Kong was suing over Piggly Wiggly's refusal to let him carry a blonde lady into the store to buy him a case of beer. The case was thrown out.

[jobycom]

25. Yeah, but that was before the ADA was passed

And anyway the court ruled that blondes were not animals and Kong's need for service did not constitute a disability.

[aspergris]

30. No

walmart was included because they have deep pockets

as the article points out the health dept determined
1) thaqt the macaque was NOT a bona fide service animal
2) and notified local businesses

her issue is with the health dept. and her means to seek redress is through the courts.

that's how due process works.

but instead, she violated the determination, and now she is suing

typical whiny crap that gives REAL victims who sue a bad name

[jobycom]

35. That's innaccurate

The county health boards do not take precedence over the ADA (see post 28 above). So Walmart would still be in violation for disobeying the ADA even with the health department's orders to do so. If the county health department told Walmart that the plaintiff had no condition, or that a doctor had determined that she had no condition, then Walmart might have a defense. If it turns out that the plaintiff did have a diagnosed condition, then the health department would be in a lot of trouble, and Walmart could be used as a witness against them.

The ADA is very broad, and puts the burden of proof on businesses, not the individual. Businesses are not allowed to decide what they believe is a valid disability.

[aspergris]

36. but that's insufficient

the issue is not merely that she has a condition

the issue is

1) she has the condition
2) the macaque is a bona fide service animal for that condition

1 is apparently not inquestion

2 is.

believe it or not, service animals are not whatever a person with a condition says they are.

if you are diagnosed tomorrow with schizoaffective disorder, that doesn't give you the right under the ADA to determine that your chinchilla helps relieve your condition and give you the right to take that animal into my store.

do you really think that it should be the case taht whatever animal YOU think assists in servicing you is automatically a service animal?

how absurd is that?

[jobycom]

40. No, that's exactly the opposite of what the ADA says.

2. Q: What is a service animal?

A: The ADA defines a service animal as any guide dog, signal dog, or other animal individually trained to provide assistance to an individual with a disability. If they meet this definition, animals are considered service animals under the ADA regardless of whether they have been licensed or certified by a state or local government.

3. Q: How can I tell if an animal is really a service animal and not just a pet?

A: Some, but not all, service animals wear special collars and harnesses. Some, but not all, are licensed or certified and have identification papers. If you are not certain that an animal is a service animal, you may ask the person who has the animal if it is a service animal required because of a disability. However, an individual who is going to a restaurant or theater is not likely to be carrying documentation of his or her medical condition or disability. Therefore, such documentation generally may not be required as a condition for providing service to an individual accompanied by a service animal. Although a number of states have programs to certify service animals, you may not insist on proof of state certification before permitting the service animal to accompany the person with a disability.

6. Q: My county health department has told me that only a guide dog has to be admitted. If I follow those regulations, am I violating the ADA?

A: Yes, if you refuse to admit any other type of service animal on the basis of local health department regulations or other state or local laws. The ADA provides greater protection for individuals with disabilities and so it takes priority over the local or state laws or regulations.

http://www.ada.gov/qasrvc.htm
-------------------------

The one point that might work in your favor is this: Service animals perform some of the functions and tasks that the individual with a disability cannot perform for him or herself.

They could argue that the animal did not actually perform a function that the plaintiff could not perform, but that's a narrow interpretation. There is a ton of information on the Internet about service animals used for social disorders and mental illness.

So your point 2 is not the issue. Point one is the only issue. If she's been diagnosed with a social disorder, she's going to win. You might not think that's right, but it is the law.

[aspergris]

47. actually

thank you for the cite. that's excellent information.

I would need to see some case law on this, but I am sorry I do not believe that whether a not a service animal is a service animal is SOLELY in the eyes of the person with the animal.

Again, is your claim that ANY animal that the disabled person BELIEVES is a service animal is automatically a service animal, and that no govt. agency has authority to determine otherwise?

Sorry, I don't buy it.

Was the macaque "individually trained" to "provide assistance"?

etc.

[jobycom]

50. No, but no one is claiming that.

First, her condition would have to be real, or at least justifiable. Second, she would have had to train the service animal in some specific way that assisted her. Third, the health officials who claimed the monkey was not a service animal were county officials not authorized to make that decision, but that doesn't mean that there aren't health officials or federal courts qualified to make that decision. And notice that the story doesn't give any information on whether the monkey was trained or was considered a service animal by any third person.

But the ADA does put a lot of the burden of proof on those who are required to follow it, rather than on the claimant of a disability. The ADA describes disability very broadly, specifically stating that if someone has a condition that can cause others to consider them limited by the condition, then they are to be considered to have a disability. For instance, if a person has allergies, and an employer decides that an employee can't perform some task because she has allergies, then the allergies would be considered a disability in that case. (That's mostly hypothetical, but you get the idea).

So, basically, the plaintiff does not have to prove she is disabled or that her animal is a service animal in order for a store to apply the ADA regulations in her favor. And Walmart or any business is not allowed to take the word of county health officials over the plaintiff on what is considered a service animal, unless the county health officials have some clear proof. And any employer of that size knows that.

The article doesn't tell us enough to know what's going on. If the letter the health officials circulated says only "Don't allow the monkey in your store because monkeys are dirty and disruptive and violate health standards and they can't be considered service animals," then they have violated the law every which way to Sunday, and Walmart violated the ADA by obeying their letter. If, on the other hand, the county health officials wrote "This person's claim of disability has been rejected in federal court, and that same court ruled that her monkey is not to be considered a service animal, after testimony from numerous health officials and government attorneys considered experts on the ADA," then Walmart is likely off the hook, and the country officials might be if they are telling the truth. Anything between those two possibilities is possible, too.

There's just not enough story in that story to know.

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. Oops didn't see this and just posted this article

Pretty hilarious, eh?

[predfan]

24. Fill in the blank...........

" all the hair's coming off my monkey! "

"SELL THE ---------!!!!!!!"

[aspergris]

26. Classic deep pocket lawsuit

Iow, if the HEALTH dept. determined (rightly or wrongly) that the macaque was not a service animal, then Wal Mart or any local business, was correct in relying on that determination.

I have NO idea what the clinical data for using macaques as animals to "curb anxiety disorders" is. iow, is the health dept wrong? who knows? But if I owned a business, and the health dept said your pet snuffalufagus WASN'T a service animal, then I'm not going to let it in the store. and if i did, and the snuffalufagus trampled a customer, guess who would be liable?

iow, catch 22 d00d!

[cherokeeprogressive]

34. I don't think humans should be allowed to own monkeys for any reason.

"The chimps chewed off most of Davis's face and tore off his testicles and foot, Chealander said.

Davis was taken to Loma Linda University Medical Center, where he had surgery. The hospital would not release information on his condition.

Primate specialists say chimpanzees, which typically weigh 120 to 150 pounds and are much stronger than most humans, are known to kill chimps from neighboring groups, hunt other primates, even attack humans in the wild.

''This episode highlights some of the dangers of privately owning primates," said Steve Schapiro, who studies chimpanzee behavior at the University of Texas. ''When you maintain large, strong animals in captivity, you think you know what they're going to do, but in the end they're unpredictable."

So you think it's funny because it involves Wal-Mart.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/03/05/chimpanzee_attack_probed/

[Lorien]

39. An ape and a bonnet macaque monkey are two very different animals

bonnet macaques are all over India, and while they do a lot of thieving in urban areas, they generally don't attack anyone. However, I've never heard of that particular species being used as a service animal. Capuchin monkeys are usually trained for paraplegics; they're about half the size of the macaques.

[Gato Moteado]

37. so, what you're saying is....you can no longer spank......

...your monkey in a walmart store?

[behave]

38. there's a crazy monkey in the white house

[KamaAina]

41. Wal-Mart's "macaca moment"?

Seriously, the Dept. of (In)Justice is in the process of drafting new regs that would exclude non-domesticated animals, including monkeys, from the definition of "service animal".

[libnnc]

43. his name is Richard...

that made me giggle for some reason

[Philosoraptor]

44. I have a wart hog named Brian, & a guppy named Claude, who calm me

[libnnc]

45. I love it.

Claude is a fine, fine name.

:D

[annabanana]

46. "Everybody's got something to hide. . . . "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1IoQJ_PVoM

YAY!!

[Philosoraptor]

48. 'I'm a faded, jaded monkey & all my friends are junkies'...Mick Jagger

Mick shops at walmart, but Keef refuses to.

[Philosoraptor]

49. Yet they allow unruly children in there all the time!

At least they should be leashed.

[mitchum]

52. Maybe if the monkey were obese...

it would be all right

[Oldtimeralso]

54. I'm getting so old that I suffer from CRS

So the next trip to Wallyworld can I bring an elephant? It is said that an elephant never forgets.

[DFW]

55. As the OP noted, one species is still allowed:

[Philosoraptor]

56. .........