I never knew what would follow the word faggot

[dsc]

Like virtually any gay person, I was called faggot more than once. When I was in middle and high school I got called it alot. The word itself wasn't all that bad. It was what would follow that I had to worry about. Would I be shoved? Would I be hit? Spat on? Nothing? Dragged to the restroom for a swirly? I grew to hate school. It was only the utter determination that I wouldn't have to live there forever that made me persevere.

I admit to being more than a little troubled by the twists of logic I have seen here about what faggot may or may not mean. I can't understand how calling someone a faggot isn't considered the equivalent of calling someone the n word. I know that in some circles, even some DU circles, there is some sort of difference between hatred racial or ethnic minorities and hatred of gays. I know that in some circles, even some DU circles, gays are considered unredeemed, and possibly even unredeemible, sinners. I know that makes us immoral in some of your eyes.

I honestly don't know what to say. It is hard to see a group of liberals who honestly seem to think it is perfectly OK to hate gays as long as you vote for us. It is hard to even know what ones reaction to that ought to be. It is hard to see a person who calls people faggot publicly repeatedly feted by the movers and shakers of one of our political parties. It is even harder to see people here try to justify her use of that term.

I guess I should be grateful to know how far I still have to go. Somehow I'm not. Instead I wonder what will come next.

[DRoseDARs]

1. Be quiet, you're going to ruin our chances in 2000 ...er '02 ...er '04 ...er '06 ...er '08 ...er...

eom

[cboy4]

30. You sound like me!

Funny. ;)

[Bunny]

2. There are all kinds of people here who also have no problem

with calling women bitches, and yes, even c*nts. They just don't see what the big deal is. All of these hateful words have very clear, specific meanings, and few of those meanings are as innocuous as they'd have you believe.

I don't know what the answer is, I gave up fighting the battle a while back. I get my pleasure here as I find it, and ignore the rest.

[dsc]

3. You have a very valid point

I try to address that whenever it comes up. It is at least as inexcusible as using faggot.

[Solon]

5. I like the term "asshole" myself...

Ann Coulter is a "Class A" asshole, of the 666th level, or something like that. Calling her a bitch is an insult to female dogs everywhere.

[nashville_brook]

7. check out this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x358015#363379

defending this ad:



as high art...

[nashville_brook]

4. here's their fallacy: racism, misogyny and hatred of gays is FREEDOM of SPEECH

...so their prejudice is the enlightened kind: they are prejudiced toward FREEDOM!

Shame on anyone who suggests hate speech is hurtful -- why, "you must be for CENSORSHIP! you are for book banning! you are no better than the nazis."

Their straw men burn bright when people light a fire under them -- that's what comes next.

[Solon]

6. When I was in highschool, some assholes actually painted "Faggot" on the street...

in front of my house. And I'm not even gay, I was just not socially acceptable because I hung out with the "rejects".

[nashville_brook]

8. that's a threat -- the message is, "you're not like us..."

"so you better watch out."

[JackBeck]

9. Why I was in college, freshman year,

a couple of the guys on my dorm floor wrote "faggot" in shaving cream at the foot of my door. I knew who did it, so I took a can of Spaghetti-Os and returned the favor. Not the best response, but I felt better. I also reported the incident, but no actions were taken. I was a shy kid at that time, but knowing myself as well as I do now, that shit would NOT fly today.

[dsc]

10. damn

I hope you caught them and prosecuted them.

[Solon]

12. Nothing came of it...

In fact, I'm not even sure if a crime was committed. Like I said, the message was written IN the street, so it wasn't vandalism of my parent's house, because it was off their property, but the message had my name in it, so no mistake there, it said: "Don McBee is a Faggot".

It was written in white paint, they were painted in a series of circles, about 1 foot in diameter, that spelled out that message.

[dsc]

13. damn dude

now that is harsh. I would think that defacing a city street would have to be some sort of crime but who knows. That sucks to have happened to you.

[Solon]

14. I imagine there is some penalty for it...

But the cops weren't that interested, and the county guys that came and cleaned it up had little trouble erasing all trace of it.

[dsc]

15. I just can't imagine

I would have hid out for a month had that happened to me. People can be so cruel.

[Solon]

17. I thought about it....

But then I realized how much time they wasted painting this shit in the middle of the night, I mean, how obsessive do you have to be to do that? What's really messed up is that I still don't know who, exactly, did this, no one mentioned it when I went to school, and no one bragged about it. My Dad wakes up at the crack of dawn to go to work, and by the time I wake up to get to school, I saw a crew from the county cleaning it up in front of my house. My Dad was late to work that day, stayed till I woke up, my parents even said that if I wanted to skip school that day, I could. I decided not to.

[dsc]

18. That really sucks so bad

but at least your parents were cool about it. Sadly more than a few parents would have blamed their own kids.

[Solon]

20. Looking back on it, I felt more foolish by being embarrassed at the message...

than I should. I went to school, yeah, but damn was a paranoid for weeks after that. I was constantly looking over my shoulder, shit like that. But then it hit me, no one at the school knew what happened, I mean, no one saw it, and, apparently, the kids who did it were too lazy to take a picture. This was before digital cameras and camera phones were common, in the middle of the 1990s. Besides, it was even sillier when you consider that, at the time, I had a hot gothic girlfriend, and we made no secret of our affections at school, much to the dismay of the administration at the time. ;)

Oh damn, haven't thought of her in years, maybe I should look her up? ;)

[dsc]

21. I can understand your embarassment and frankly fear quite well

being a target is no fun at all.

[Solon]

23. That much is true...

Its no fun at all, but being a target also let's you develop a thick skin.

[KansDem]

11. Think "bassoon"

Fagot(to), the name in many languages of the musical instrument bassoon

[dsc]

16. I admit to not knowing that

[Solon]

19. I think the "t" in it is silent...

at least in the first spelling, either that, or pronounced "Fagoat", with a long o. I forget which, but what do I know, I played the Clarinet.

[Thothmes]

33. Fagot/Faggot

I remember in some of the English Literature we read in school, a faggot was a bundle of sticks used in fires, such as burning at the stake, etc. My mom use to refer to cigarettes as fags. Also, some of the old farmers in the area used to use the term "fagged out" when they tired.

[Ishoutandscream2]

37. Yes, my late granddad

born in 1910, grew up as a poor farm boy. When Grandpa was really tired, he would say he was "fagged out." I hadn't thought about that until you mentioned it.

[KansDem]

42. You know, I wonder if that's how the fagot (bassoon) got it's name

If you look closely, it does look like a "bundle of sticks," or at least two sticks, tied together.

Of course I haven't checked any authoritative source on the history of musical instruments, so this is just my observation.

[mzmolly]

22. On a positive note, Coulter has been dropped from publication in various news papers,

and advertisers have pulled funding from her website. I think we are making progress as a society, though it is slower than we'd like.

[David__77]

24. The best response to such things as a fist in the face.

That's the reasoning I have come to. It'll shape most people up rather quickly.

[HardRocker05]

25. most people on this site have no idea what it is like to be gay, and how those words cut

right to the bone. as you said, it's not just the 'name-calling;' the words often go hand in hand with threats or actual assaults, and gay people live with this every day, not knowing when they are going to cross paths with the wrong bigot and things could get ugly. there's nothing like a drunk redneck at an alabama rest-stop late at night telling you that he'd like to kill you to make you realize the type of minefield you're walking through everyday.

[LostinVA]

45. Excellent post

And, how disconcerting it's been to see "Faggot" repeated over and over again in the GD subject heads. Which is what I suspect some of the posters wanted.

[TheWraith]

26. I feel for your suffering, but you force me to rebut.

I'll preface this by saying that I'm not trying to undermine your life's experiences, or your perception of bias in the world around you. But the truth is, you're attacking DU for something it hasn't done. Period. I'm the first person to say that DU can be pretty loopy on the whole at times, but one of the most steadfast things you'll find about here is that nobody is going to attack you for who you are, and certainly no one is going to accept even quiet bias against you.

Yet, for some reason, certain people go out of their way to complain about some phantom of homophobia here. I, for one, have yet to see these reams of posts and DUers who find such behavior acceptable and even to be encouraged. I haven't seen a single DUer who has justified Coultergeist's statement--have you? Or are you simply inventing a reason to feel put upon?

The way I see it, some people have been so scarred by discrimination elsewhere that they're subconsciously determined to find it everywhere. That they're unwilling or unable to let down their defenses and think that yes, there are other decent human beings. So rather than accept that, even here they find things to attack.

It's homophobia that Brokeback Mountain didn't win the Oscar for best picture, and it's more homophobia to say that maybe it just didn't win. It's gay-bashing to honestly say that Gavin Newsom's gay marriage stunt boosted evangelical turnout in 2004. It's anti-gay bias if you're not terribly offended by a ridiculous candybar ad.

My advice to you would be to wake up and relax. Martin Luther King didn't ignore Jim Crow in order to march against the lack of black movie heroes. The real fights that you have to win to be treated fairly are quite large enough without making up little ones out of whole cloth.

[dsc]

27. We had a thread about the meaning of the word faggot

I would link it but that is illegal.

[Jamastiene]

28. Here is an example: use of a variation of the word, "faggot" on DU.

Here is an example of someone using the word "fag" when talking about Tucker Carlson.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=355488&mesg_id=361203

How is it justified exactly?

[Puglover]

32. " It's gay-bashing to honestly say that Gavin Newsom's gay marriage stunt "

What is utterly breath taking to me is that you can type this sentence and smugly lecture people about YOUR perception of homophobia. You can kiss my gay ass pal.

On edit. I'm intrigued. How exactly does the OP "force" you to rebut? Are you just being a clever wordsmith here or it is really your need to get in yet another dig at the people who took issue with the Snickers ad among other things?

[swimboy]

35. You lack empathy and capacity to understand this issue and your eyesight is not all it should be.

You lack credentials to school progressives on this topic.

[Jamastiene]

29. Hear here. Well said.

I couldn't have said it better myself. So much of it has been said lately on DU, it almost feels like an infestation of trolls, but after noticing time and again that some of the people trying to justify homophobia are 1000+ post posters, one has to stop and realize there is plenty of homophobia on the right AND the left.

Great post, dsc. :thumbsup:

[LWolf]

31. I struggle with this professionally.

I'm not gay, although I know that some of my adolescent students have privately thought so. I'm not submissive, I make no effort to be decorative, and I'm no longer married. I'm too strong and independent to be their idea of female. Since I can't be bullied into submission, I must be a lesbian. :eyes:

The word "faggot," though...I am so troubled when I hear it. My students don't use it often, but I've heard it enough to know that there is an underlying foundation of homophobia in this little rural community. I've worried about the adolescents who may be, at this point, discovering that they are gay. It's sure as hell not safe for them to say so around here. I'm wondering if they are some of those who use the "f" word, to publicly establish themselves as "not gay," and therefore keep that closet nailed safely shut.

I did have one student stand up in the middle of class recently and yell "faggot" across the room to another. That gave me a chance to publicly address the word with the class. It didn't give me a chance to lecture on sexual equality. I'd be crucified, and then fired, in this community to publicly bring up the subject of homosexuality. I did give a heads-up to the health teacher, who can address the subject without professional risk, if not parent censure. This situation was a little different, though. The student called "faggot" was the speaker's twin. It was a sibling put-down, which allowed me to discuss bigotry, put-downs and epithets in general.

When my sons were becoming men, I used to pray that they weren't gay. Not because I'd love them less, or think less of them. Because I'm their mom, and I want them to be safe. I knew they'd be at risk, and I knew their lives would be diminished if they couldn't be themselves safely, with respect from the world.

I KNOW that the U.S. is not a safe, accepting place for gay people. I'm sorry that more Americans don't see how that conflicts with the principles of freedom and equality.

[Irreverend IX]

34. Someone was defending Coulter?

Link? I know you'll run into wacky viewpoints on DU now and then, but I can't imagine someone here backing Ann Coulter up.

[swimboy]

36. The Wraith, not the OP, brought up this issue.

You addressed your question to a person who did not put that out here.

[Irreverend IX]

38. "It is even harder to see people here try to justify her use of that term." nt

[swimboy]

39. I guess that does refer to Coulter

my bad. Sorry.

[IronLionZion]

40. Who hates gays?

Let us know who and what they said so we can deal with it.

Who justified Coulter's use of the term?

Who thinks you are an immoral sinner?

If there's homophobia on here, I want you to show me the links.

If you want to call me names like "homophobe" for asking these questions, now who's the hater?

[dsc]

43. We are not allowed to link threads

but a few days ago there was a thread which stated "I get disgusted when I think of gays but I vote for you". Numerous people have stated in marriage threads that our relationships are less moral than straight ones. The defending Coulter is refering to some posters who "didn't know what faggot meant".

[Kablooie]

41. Maybe there are a lot of Brits here who bundle up sticks a lot.

[LostinVA]

44. Excellent post