Has anyone here heard of courses teaching you how to buy properties

[Skarbrowe]

that have tax liens on them or are tax delinquent? That might mean the same thing. I am totally ignorant on this subject. I have a friend that just spent a lot of money to learn how to buy either this type of property or foreclosures or both. I'm a bit worried about him because he paid a BUNCH of money to learn how to do this and he has to buy the property AND SELL IT. Actually, he has to buy and sell several in a year. Doesn't this sound really weird with us probably going into a depression and no one being able to buy anything?

Also, I didn't know what forum to put this in. So moderators could you help me out?

[Bluebear]

1. It's incredibly risky, no matter what "course" he went through.

Of course there are opportunities to be had out there, but if you truly don't know what you're doing, you could end up with a bunch of properties nobody wants.

[Skarbrowe]

6. Thanks Bluebear. He really thinks these people are going to

tell him how to buy these properties. Like they have some special list. It isn't really tax lien I've been told. Just properties that are being sold because the taxes have backed up. I don't know if that is always a tax lien. ??? I'm still trying to talk him out of this. Supposedly, if you can't sell so many in a year you get a full refund. Yeah, right. This guy is usually very smart. I'm truly shocked by this. He has a great retirement income coming in in a few short years and I think he's gone bonkers!! I told him I thought it was a rip-off real estate scam. It's from a dang informercial. Geez.

[RT Atlanta]

2. it's too late for your friend's $

But in many states, just because you own the tax lien, that does not give you clear title to the property in question, meaning you can't actually sell the property. IMO, he'd have been better off lighting cigars with his $ rather than buying into those property purchase schemes.

[Skarbrowe]

7. I think you're totally correct RT Atlanta. Sadly.

[Raven]

3. Be very, very careful! Properties subject to local property tax

liens are subject to a 3 year right of redemption and many of them have mold, underground tanks or other pollution problems. You don't get the right to inspect so you buy blind.

[Skarbrowe]

13. Yeah Raven. I've been listing all the negatives I can think of and

I don't even know the business at all. Common sense just tells me that you shouldn't have to pay to learn to buy property that everybody probably has already taken a good look at. And buying blind is totally ridiculous unless you're a multi-millionaire/billionaire who has "people" checking things out for you. I don't get it. I'm still trying to talk sense to this person. I think he might still have time to get out of it. He's very stubborn though, and the past two days that I have tried have been tiring and useless. uh, and this was a LOT of money....for nothing-like all of you are saying.

[exothermic]

4. There are dozens of scams of that nature. If you knew how to make millions with unconventional

real estate dealings, would you really sell the 'secret' for 50 or 100 bucks?
P. T. Barnum had something to say about it.

[Common Sense Party]

9. It's more like $1500 or $2000.

Some of these B.S. stock trading "systems" get people to pay upwards of $3000!

[exothermic]

16. Yep. Whatever the traffic will bear.

Get rich quick damn sure does work...for the scammers!
edit dumb spelling

[Common Sense Party]

19. Well, they DO have to pay for the hotel meeting room.

So, that's not all pure profit.

It's still pretty obscene, though.

[ben_meyers]

5. Generally speaking the only ones making the money

are the people selling the courses.

Now if you want to make $5000 a day working from home, send me your money and I'll tell you how!

[Common Sense Party]

10. Currency trading? Sign me up!!!

[Common Sense Party]

8. It's a scam. A ripoff. This is a way for the seminar presenters

to make a ton of money off of gullible people.

Your friend just learned an expensive lesson.

[Skarbrowe]

24. Yeah, Common Sense sure left my friend. :) I might still get him out of it.

Hopefully. But, like I said in another reply, he has said if he loses this money he will accept it as a VERY expensive lesson. This was not your usual "course" cost. I'm still in shock. guh

[Lex]

11. Paying delinquent taxes doesn't make one the owner

of the real estate in many states. Nor does it necessarily give one the right to foreclose against the owner.

Each states laws vary and someone could really step into a pile of poo if they didn't know exactly what they were doing.

Plus with the market downturn, if he's expecting buyers to line up to purchase properties right now, he might want to re-think that.

[pokercat999]

12. Suggest you check with your local States Attorney's Office

or if you have some type of local Consumer Protection Agency you could check with them.
I've looked at tax liens years ago in FL and back then you "bought" the property but the delinquent tax payer had the right to re-claim the property by paying you the lien amount (what you paid) plus interest. If I remember the interest was capped at 18% APR. If still true that would be a good rate of return IF the property was worth more than the tax lien AND you have large gobs of $$ to lay out while waiting for the interest or eventual actual deed to the property.

As far as a course teaching you how to do this, my guess is it was a poor investment if not an out and out ripoff.

[Skarbrowe]

17. Hey pokercat999! That's exactly what he found out about whatever

state he was discussing. He isn't trying to buy in Florida, though. He wants to get himself land out of this state. This is the crazy way he is going about it. He thought he would try and get a few acres or lots somewhere, sell one or two and live on one. Then it turned into this monster.

I don't know if this is just a tax "sale" or if it includes foreclosures. Believe it or not, I got so angry with him that I've told him not to talk to me about it. I came here to get the great DU's opinion because I was at my wit's end.
I did tell him over and over and over that these people are just selling a very expensive unneeded, unproductive course. He's very close to losing my friendship over this. I'm simply stunned to illness that he would fall for this crap.

Thank you very much for your reply.

[pokercat999]

21. "losing my friendship over this"

I'd like you to rethink that. If this person is truly your friend you can't afford to lose a friend over something as silly as money. You've done your best hang in there, suggest he check and double check OUTSIDE sources before investing. If he has invested back off and hope for the best. No matter, in the long run it sounds like your friend is going to need your support.

[Skarbrowe]

25. Sorry I made it sound that bad. ;) It's more complicated than I have

stated to, oh, uh, keep his identity a bit of a secret. Not to anyone here really. I should have been more up front. But, I wasn't, so I'll just leave it where it is. It won't kill the friendship as much as it literally blows my mind. Sorry. I should have been more honest.

[Quantess]

14. I think I need to start doing get-rich seminars.

Giving advice on how to get rich sounds like a great way to make money!

[Skarbrowe]

18. Tell me about it! Get yourself an infomercial going. They worked on this guy

and he's in the genius category. At least he was. :)

[pokercat999]

27. Fish'n lures.....don't have to catch fish, just fishermen! eom

[On the Road]

15. You Can Make Money in Tax Sales

but you have to know what you're doing. To save the cost of the course, you might consider going to a local real estate club as a first step. There are so many properties on the market, in foreclosure, or in tax sale that the pickings are good.

Not all properties are cheap. It helps to know property values in a specific area, probably one you live near. Occasionally bargains come on the market, and it is worth waiting a few months for the right opportunity.

I have bought six rental properties in the last five years and my girlfriend has bought twelve. All have positive equity even after the recent slump. However, some other investors we know have lost money and are trying to dump properties. So it can be done, but is not always easy, and there are definite risks.

Tax sales are a different animal and subject to local rules. You do not necessarily have to sell the property. In some cases, you pay the taxes and collect 18% interest if the owner decides to pay off -- some people do it specifically for the 18%. But they don't pay, you have to know what to do with the house. In others, you can take possession of the property and hold it (either vacant or rented) until the market recovers. Keep in mind that if you do take possession, you may have to evict the residents, which is uncomfortable for some people.

There are always hidden costs, so you need to be able to borrow or have deep pockets. If you're scraping by, it is best to avoid real estate because there are always surprises, most of them bad. having said that, it's a good time to begin looking.

[Skarbrowe]

22. He has a good friend that's a realtor. He didn't even check with her.

I told him to talk to her and get her opinion. He should have at least done what you suggested by going to a local real estate club. I know there are many, many houses that are being foreclosed on and properties out there that can be purchased if you have the money ( he thinks you can get them all very cheap ), but then you are supposed to sell them. I think that's part of this scam, excuse me, "program". He has come into some money and I think he's forgetting that very, very bad times are ahead. He's a total optimist. At times he can be a realist, but he isn't in this case.

Thanks for your reply. I can probably get a hundred warnings, opinions and good knowledgeable information here and I'm still not sure I can change his mind in time.

[On the Road]

26. It is Not a Foregone Conclusion

that we are going into a depression. Houses are still selling. If you can buy a tax sale for $100k and similar properties are listing for $200k, it can probably be flipped for a profit. The secret is to know the local values, be patient, and be in a position to handle costly surprises. It is not usually an easy road to riches, but it can work.

My girlfriend bought a house last year in Baltimore that we both had had our eye on for $167k. It had been foreclosed on, purchased by an out-of-town investor for $80k who did nothing to the property, and resold it less than a year later. That guy made a killing.

[flvegan]

20. You're in Florida, so I can help you out.

In Florida, if a person doesn't pay his/her property taxes, a Tax Certificate is issued to the best bidder (rate) for that certificate. After two years, if the property owners DON'T redeem the Certificate (pay the face amount plus the interest) the Certificate holder can then move for a Tax Deed sale. This is normally where the mortgage company steps in and pays the certificate off and goes after the homeowner for the money. See, a Tax Deed, if issued completely wipes out any liens, mortgages, etc on the property. You have clear (almost) marketable fee simple title to that property. You then (to make it marketable title) need to file a Quiet Title lawsuit (lawyers) to ensure all parties had notice, etc.

It's a fairly *safe* investment, if you can bid a good rate. Sooner or later, you'll either get your cash or the property. Bearing in mind, homesteaded property in say, Hillsborough County might have property taxes of $2k on a $150k house, that's not too bad. Lawyer fees for a Quiet Title action might run you $1k-$1500.

[Skarbrowe]

23. Thanks flvegan. I don't think he wants to buy in Florida. But all of

you are giving me some great information that I think he needs to know. He might be thinking that if he puts the time and effort into this it will work out for him in future years. He is thinking long term. His darn family lives to be about hundred years old and he can retire with a very nice pension with complete health benefits at the end of 2009 if he wants to. He can also choose to keep his rather decent paying job and try and juggle this stuff. ME? I'm ready to get under the covers with a good book and not think about anything. Maybe it's just too much for me to process. Still, he paid way, way, WAY too much for this course. I would imagine that their promise to give back all of his money if he isn't able to buy and sell 8 properties in a year is total bull and they'll be out of the country by then.

Oh, he did say he was willing to lose this amount if it came to it. Told him he should have gone to Las Vegas and at least had some fun instead of having to do all this work.

Thanks for your great reply. It's very helpful.

[ColbertWatcher]

28. Yes.

Trump was advertising it and I thought it was very bastardly of him, so I grabbed a picture of it, in case I would ever need it...

[RebelOne]

29. Absolute scam!! Check out this link.

www.infomercialscams.com/scams/john_beck_free_and_clear

[Skarbrowe]

30. OH god! I couldn't donate last session so I have to search for

this page. I sure wish I had ask all of you a few days earlier and that I would have had this site RebelOne. I even tried to stop his credit card( I help pay the bills) and I was two days too late. I wasn't told about this until two days after it was put on a credit card. And it's exactly what all those complaints are.

He's reading the print outs I made from the site right now and he's sayi..... HELL, I didn't mean to lie, I was just embarrassed and not wanting to let people know exactly who it was that fell for this. It's a female and it's my roommate.


Fuck, I'm moving.

Thanks again for all the information. You've all been great. I shouldn't haven't been evasive and used the wrong personal pronoun. Sorry. :) All of you were so kind and I was lying about who I was talking about. Geez.