Democrats shelve plans to force Iraq pullout (Boston Globe)

[stevedeshazer]

WASHINGTON -- Congressional Democrats have dramatically scaled back their plans to shape the course of the Iraq war, bowing to pressure from Republicans and conservative Democrats to pursue only nonbinding measures, at least for now, as they push to bring the troops home.

In the House, Democratic leaders now concede that they do not have enough votes to use their control over federal spending to force President Bush to begin withdrawing troops. Instead, lawmakers are drafting a far milder bill that would include guidelines for troop readiness -- requirements that the president could waive at his discretion.

<snip>

The delay has only heightened liberals' calls for Democrats to force an end to the war, through steps such as blocking funding and mandating troop withdrawals by particular dates. But conservative Democrats and virtually all Republicans balk at such measures, making compromise elusive, Nelson said.

Democrats rode to power in November in large part because of antiwar sentiment. Party leaders vowed to quickly deliver on voters' desire to end the war, and polls have suggested that the public is growing more frustrated as US involvement in Iraq grinds on.

<snip>

"We're at a point where war becomes more familiar than peace," said Representative Dennis J. Kucinich, a liberal Ohio Democrat who is running for president. "This is really a pivotal moment for the Democrats, and for this country. . . . It's almost as if we're sleepwalking through the graveyard of history."

:grr: more at link: http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2007/03/08/democrats_shelve_plans_to_force_iraq_pullout/

[autorank]

1. K&R "I feel your pain" - WTF? Wasn't that why we won the election?

Oh, I'm sorry, what a stupid question and, anyway, if we're too assertive on this Old Joe might
take his 'JoeMentom' somewhere else. Couldn't have that, now could we.

Time to leave when over 60% of the people in the country think it's OK for their citizens to
initiate suicide actions against Americans. That's a clue, Cheney and * should take it.

:hi:

[stevedeshazer]

2. That's what really bugs me...Americans WANT Congress to stop this war

Poll after poll shows they do.

We voted 'em in to do it...and they're too afraid the Republicans will call them names. Bunch of candy-asses!

I'd like to see some primary challenges against some of these softies. Lead, follow, or get out of the way. Perhaps the latter applies here.

:hi:

[Apollo11]

5. It's all about the math

Democrats don't have the numbers, especially not in the Senate, to force a quick withdrawal from Iraq.

I think you need 60 Senators to overturn the President's plans. 50 just ain't enough.

Blaming Democrats in Congress won't change the situation or end the war.

But it seems that some people find that it makes them feel better.

[tom_paine]

13. Oh bullshit. The point is to try. The point is to make a principled stand

Even if it fails, MAKE the Busheviks force it to fail and hang it around their necks.

Jesus God, stop whining about the fucking math! Look at the goddamned Repubics now that THEY are in the minority. And forget about the veto, for our purposes it doesn't exist, for the Imperial Senate will NEVER allow it to get that far (some Bushevik marketing evil genius MUST have figured out that Imperial Vetos have a very low Q score).

Why haven't the Dems been able to get a single thing, INCLUDING raising the minimum wage, passed (no veto necessary)? Because the Repubics might be kinder and gentler Nazis, but they sure aren't cowardly battered wives afraid to make even a peep lest Bill O'Reilly in his sleeveless felafel-stained t-shirt might come out there and whomp them one.

And I have busted my ass and donated to these people for six years now. But I am growing sicker and sicker of doing so. Only one thing I loathe more than a Nazi, and that's the ones who go down WITHOUT A FIGHT to them.

We may go down, so in fact, may the entire Constitutional System (if it hasn't already), but if one of the greatest nations in the history of humankind is going to become a Kinder and Gentler Nazi Germany (already well on the way) or a 1970s Soviet Union, then at least let it be said that Old America didn't die easy.

But who can say that now? It is dying with scarcely a whimper.

[bklyncowgirl]

16. I'm with you, Tom they they should try.

There's nothing wrong with trying and failing.

[stevedeshazer]

18. That's exactly how I feel

We have many fine progressives willing to go out on a limb; the squishy middle sells them out.

Better to try and fail than to weasel out altogether.

[stevedeshazer]

20. Okay, then let's say they have 50

Or even 40.

Get everyone on record! Let the Repubs and the the centrists hang out for all to see.

I got numbers: close to 3200 dead Americans. $500,000,000,000,000.

We didn't elect them to cave, my friend.

[autorank]

7. Well, I'll have a comment on that later today but ya know, we do work for them.

We're here to serve them, bow down, say one more please, right across the knees...oh, felt good.

It's getting ridiculous. We've got Hagel talking about IMPEACHMENT...but Feingold gets mugged
for mentioning censure...

I do think that Webb is doing a great job. He's out front on the resolution to take away funding.
That guy was "born fighting." This is easy for him, nothing all that dangerous but his son is in
the military in Iraq. How about that.

I'll be be your running mate in '08

:evilgrin:De Shazer - Rank "They put the 'tude in BAD ATTITUDE!":evilgrin:

[izzie]

3. I guess we will bleed some more on this one.

No one cares to get out in front and say just how silly the whole thing was and is. Not many heroes in Congress. It will be the next election that will finally end ot if we have any luck. Funny I am not shocked.

[youngdem]

4. Blame this on LIEberman, Landrieu and a few others

I am DISGUSTED.

Every single one of the dead from the election on hangs on the pro-war Dems' and LIEberman's neck.

:puke:

:banghead:


THE WAR IS ALREADY LOST !!!! QUIT WORRYING OVER WHO IS GONNA DECLARE IT DEAD, AND BURY THIS THING ALREADY !!

[tom_paine]

9. Ironically, when the Busheviks purposefully allowed New Orleans to drown

thus making it a future Republic stronghold which, along with continuing Republic vote-blocking and vote-stuffing strategies, should help offset whatever the Filthy Litle Nobodies (us) who make up the supine and cowardly Imperial Subjects of Amerika are feeling in terms of hatred towards the Ruling Tyrants, has doomed Landrieu in the next "election" she will be unable to counter vote-stealing with actual votes, as she did in her last "election" victory.

Landrieu will soon be gone from the Senate, thanks to the purposeful allowing of New Orleans to drown by delaying the rescue response by the Busheviks.

This is not good news, for the replacement Senator will probably be a Bushevik former gay male prostitute.

[youngdem]

12. I live in NOLA and I would not assume that it will automatically go Repuke here

The city is ANGRY at Bush...Trouble is Dem. Governor Blanco is even a bigger inept moron than Bush is, so there is enormous anger at her, particularly regarding her management of the Road Home program, disbursing billions in grants to get people home (less than 2% awarded).

Bobby Jindal is going to be the governor next, but it is because he is popular because of performance, not because of party necessarily...he has simply come to bat for the state while the governor has looked inept.

Landrieu is no real loss, except for women's rights issues, for which she is a pillar of strength. She is a pro-war wingnut on most issues.

But citywide, there is no assurance that a Dem would not have a chance. Bill Jefferson handily won reelection recently, and he is a black Democrat with a current Federal investigation ongoing (complete with video footage of him taking a bribe and cash in his freezer).

The only concerted effort I can see to keep anyone out of the city is the effort not to reopen scores of housing project ghettos across the city.

[tom_paine]

15. Two things: I bow to your personal experience and also I was speaking of statewide

I was also thinking of those 70,000 poor blacks who are still (or were six months ago, last time I heard of it) trapped behind barbed wire at FEMA Camp (some might say concentration camp).

I was also speaking of the African-American diaspora (don't kid yuourself about what not rebuilkding the projects means, regardless of what one thinks about housing projects in general) that is being encouraged by any number of means.

[youngdem]

17. I am curious why you think they are trapped in the FEMA camps

Can you tell me why you think they are trapped, please?

I work in building homes for Section 8 (HUD) recipients. There are jobs EVERYWHERE...Low skilled, high paying jobs...EVERYWHERE. People take refuse and prop up a piece of plywood and spray paint 'HIRING NOW...$15-20/hr' on it all over town, all over the region.

There are a gazillion charity outreach organizations here frankly eager to help people get what they need.

And the government is still providing rental assistance 18 months after the storm for thousands living across the country.

As far as the barbed wire, it is to keep people out, not in. Sincerely. New Orleans post-Katrina is an extremely lawless, violent place. At each park, there is a guard station at the front attempting to keep out all but those who live there, and the fencing is to do the same. Two nights ago, a guard was shot to death at a guard station while trying to prevent entry by an armed man seeking to settle a score. Frankly, the parks are the safest place to live in town in terms of violence (except for Old Metairie and loft buildings).

After Road Home money is disbursed, I will have a very short period of patience for those who still complain about not being taken care of, as Road Home pays the entire difference between the insured loss and the actual loss...everyone is being made whole, eventually. So, hopefully as that happens, things will improve.

Nice to meet you, by the way...Have read your posts for a long time.

[tom_paine]

21. Again, I bow to your firsthand, personal experience

It is also very nice to meet you, youngdem.

I hope that the things you are saying are 100% true, because it gladdens my heart for the victims of Katrina. I would caution, however, that the Busheviks have a repeated habit of promising money and then failing to deliver.

As to why I think they are trapped, much of the reason is this article and the accompanying video, as well as some other reports I have read who's links I can't find at this moment.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/04/24/1346217

As I reread the article, I see that the number in that camp is 2,000 not 70,000. Perhaps my memory is faulty in this matter, but in any case...sorry, my bad.

I am glad you are throwing cold water on my assertions, particularly that it made me revisit the article and see the number 2,000 instead of 70,000. Perhaps 70,000 refers to the total amount of African-Americans not yet returned or perhaps something else. In either case, thanks because I am very appreciative when I get my facts wrong and someone shows me, so that I won't get them wrong the next time.

Also, I very much appreciate your eyewitness testimony. What can I say? A person sometimes gets too accustomed to assuming the worst, and that is not always true.

Thank you again for your replies. Good luck to you and to the city of New Orleans.

[tom_paine]

6. God damn their cowardly souls to hell!

I am trying to be patient. But it is quite certain that we are in a pre-1776 condition. The System of Check and Balances has been replaced by a defacto system of Imperial Will and we have seen a Triumph of the Will.

It has been seen before.

I want to be patient, but I am so goddamned sick and tired of our German Social Democrats, of a Democratic Congress that either has a substantial number of Bushevik Moles or is simply filled with people who are unable and unwilling to discharge their duty.

Do you think these (w)ussies could EVER muster the guts to impeach? Even if Bush an Cheney were vidotaped skipping down Pennsylvania Ave holding Howard Dean's severed head?

No, they couldn't. I know it and now we all know it.

And I have busted and donated my ass off for these feebs the last three "elections".

Fuck all co-dependant "battered-wife" German Social Democrats and the Hitler who beat the shit out of them!

(no disresepct intended towards the victims of domestic abuse, who deserve our sympathy and not our contempt as these Congresspersons do)

[lostnotforgotten]

8. Gutless Wonders!

eom

[blitzburgh55]

10. The AP is reporting this..

House Democrats to Unveil Iraq War Plan

By DAVID ESPO AP Special Correspondent

WASHINGTON Mar 8, 2007 (AP)— In a direct challenge to President Bush, House Democrats are advancing legislation requiring the withdrawal of U.S. combat troops from Iraq by the fall of next year.

Democratic officials who described the measure said the timetable would be accelerated to the end of 2007 if the government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki does not meet goals for providing Iraq's security.

The conditions, described as tentative until presented to the Democratic rank and file Thursday, would be added to legislation providing nearly $100 billion the Bush administration has requested for fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The officials who described the measure did so on condition of anonymity, saying they were not authorized to speak until after it was presented to the Democratic caucus. They also stressed the provisions were tentative until then.

Underscoring the debate among Democrats, several opponents of the war issued a statement late Wednesday saying they "have had a constructive dialogue with members of our party's leadership. … However, at this time, we have not reached any final agreement."

The statement was issued in the name of Reps. Lynn Woolsey, Barbara Lee and Diane Watson of California; Rep. Jerry Nadler of New York; Rep. Lloyd Doggett of Texas and Rep. Keith Ellison of Minnesota.

Even so, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's office announced plans for a Thursday news conference to unveil the measure, providing no details. The announcement said she would be joined by Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., and other key lawmakers. Murtha is chairman of the subcommittee with jurisdiction over the Pentagon's budget and is among the House's most outspoken opponents of the war.

Pelosi and the leadership have struggled in recent days to come up with an approach on the war that would satisfy liberals reluctant to vote for continued funding without driving away more moderate Democrats unwilling to be seen as tying the hands of military commanders.

The decision to impose conditions on the war risks a major confrontation with the Bush administration and its Republican allies in Congress.


http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=2933536

[mmonk]

11. Kind of like my vote is non-binding?

[mmonk]

14. The comment by Kucinich is true.

[Ms. Clio]

19. This is when it becomes the Democrats' war, too

in many ways it already was, but this is the crucial turning point, as Kucinich notes.




(typo edit)