Has Fitz ever used the word "covert" regarding Plame?

[Tennessee Gal]

I have heard him use "classified" both after the Libby indictment and after the Libby conviction. Right wing nuts are using that to say that not even Fitz has said Plame was "covert."

Need ammunition against them.

[Tennessee Gal]

1. I found one.

Feb. 13, 2006 issue - Newly released court papers could put holes in the defense of Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby, in the Valerie Plame leak case. Lawyers for Libby, and White House allies, have repeatedly questioned whether Plame, the wife of White House critic Joe Wilson, really had covert status when she was outed to the media in July 2003. But special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald found that Plame had indeed done "covert work overseas" on counterproliferation matters in the past five years, and the CIA "was making specific efforts to conceal" her identity, according to newly released portions of a judge's opinion.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11179719/site/newsweek/

Does anyone have a link to the judge's opinion mentioned?

[papau]

23. That was the one I saw - The DA agreed see was covert. n/t

n/t

[razorman]

2. No one seems to know for sure.

However, I tend to believe that she was not actually covert, else Fitzgerald would have had no ohoice but to prosecute Richard Armitage, who eventually admitted to being the one who leaked her name.

[Tennessee Gal]

4. I don't think so.

One of the elements of the law requires that the "leaker" has to know that the CIA agent's status is "covert." I think Fitz said that Armitage was not aware of Plame's status.

[razorman]

9. That could be the case.

So, if she was indeed covert, perhaps Fitz couldn't prove that any of the people who mentioned her name actually knew her status. At this point, it is so convoluted, that I do not think we will ever know the complete truth about it.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

27. Not knowing is no excuse and of all people Armitage? He must have known she worked

in counter proliferation. I don't buy that.

[Dawgs]

7. I agree, but..

why would Libby lie if she wasn't covert. Was he scared because he wasn't sure, or did her "covert status" change at some point?

[BOSSHOG]

8. "No one seems to know for sure?"

A little research and you will have your answer. The CIA knows, she knows, her contacts know. "No one seems to know" is exactly what limbaugh said on Tuesday. That's a move in the right direction though. The right wing noise machine not too long ago insisted that she was not covert. If she was not covert, why the need to out her? If there was no underlying crime, why the need to lie?

[razorman]

10. Acutally, it was Patrick Fitzgerald himself,

who told the jury that no one knows Plame's status, so it would not be factor in the trial, which was about Libby's perjury.

[kikiek]

15. Once someone is covert how can you ever not be? As in this MSNBC news article

that someone else has pointed out she is reported as having still been covert http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11179719/site/newsweek/ Even if she was not going to go overseas anymore why would you expose her? Her contacts and information are still being used. Their little politically based hissy fit ruined those contacts, and surpressed information that our country needed about Iran being a nuclear threat. Lets face it, Iran wasn't until Bush got into office. Now everyone wants a nuke. Way to go. Think that wasn't done on purpose? That they didn't have a plan in place from the day of the Iraq invasion to invade Iran? They didn't want anyone gathering intelligence on Iran in my opinion. They tried to kill two birds with one stone. Get rid of credible intelligence and get even with someone that exposed their lies. The bottom line is Libby lied and he got caught. He deserves whatever he gets. I hope it is 24 years.

[mmonk]

16. If she wasn't, there would be no grounds

for an investigation request by the CIA in the first place. There would be no obstruction of justice if Fitz wasn't investigating an activity considered illegal.

[Marie26]

36. It was if her identity was classified.

Fitz has said catagorically that Plame's identity was classified. Leaking classified information could violate the Espionage Act.

[BOSSHOG]

3. Her status was irrelevant

to the charges against libby. He was guilty of perjury and obstruction of justice, not exposing her identity. She was covert on the day Novak's column came out; per the CIA. If she weren't covert, why expose her? If there were no underlying crime, why the need to lie?

Her husband told the truth, an incredible enemy to the likes of bush and his band of criminals. Obviously the folks you are talking to are in support of criminal activity.

[Justice]

5. Agreed. Judge did not allow evidence of her status into evidence because

it was irrelevant to the charges.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

22. Irrelevant to the charges yes, but although they convicted on 4 out of 5 charges, 2 of the

jurors would favor a pardon for Libby. One in fact said he didn't think Plame was covert.

[KharmaTrain]

12. Bingo...Eye On The Ball, Folks

The case wouldn't have gone forward had it been agreed to by the another Judge (the one that approved the Grand Jury) that Plame's status waranted the investigation. Covert or not...NOC or not...her status had been judged to be one where the disclosure of her name had violated some law. That was long determined...and most importantly, Libby knew that was the case when he went in to testify in front of the Grand Jury and deliberately lied.

The Libby trial was never about "Wilson's wife" or her status. That's the smoke screen Comstock and the Repugnican spin machine is trying to throw to confuse the issue. Libby lied to a grand jury...he committed perjury. To use the Clinton analogy, it was the lie about the blow job, not getting the blow job. In Libby's case, Plame's status was ascertained as the reason to convene the Grand Jury...Libby knew it, blew it and now is going to pay for it.

So much for these hypocritical Repugnican "law and order" types...who felt a lie in the discovery of a civil suit is worthy of impeachment, but a lie in front of a grand jury in a national security leak investigation is considered trivial. We need to expose these frauds.

Cheers...

[Lasher]

6. Sounds like you're in an email battle.

I haven't seen a case where he used the term "covert". But I think this might be what you're after:

Early in November 2005, posting in his own personal blog No Quarter, former CIA officer Larry C. Johnson responds further to the ongoing dispute about Valerie Plame's status as a CIA NOC:

There is the claim that the law to protect intelligence identities could not have been violated because Valerie Wilson had not lived overseas for six years. Too bad this is not what the law stipulates. The law actually requires that a covered person “served” overseas in the last five years. Served does not mean lived. In the case of Valerie Wilson, energy consultant for Brewster-Jennings, she traveled overseas in 2003, 2002, and 2001, as part of her cover job. She met with folks who worked in the nuclear industry, cultivated sources, and managed spies. She was a national security asset until exposed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Plame#Subsequent_press_reactions

This is a definition of "covert" according to the law. Her identity was "classified" because she was "covert".

I'm having an email battle of my own, and put this up yesterday in hopes that it would help others:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=365005&mesg_id=365005

[Tennessee Gal]

13. Great!

Thank you!

[Lobster Martini]

11. It's irrelevant

Scooter was convicted of obstruction and perjury. Whether or not Valerie Plame was a covert CIA operative is irrelevant to his conviction.

[Tennessee Gal]

17. Yes, you and I know that, but

right wing nuts say that there should have never been an investigation because .........

Here is what someone posted on a site I visit:

Just as a little "aside" Valerie Plame was classified but NOT COVERT. The law is only about COVERT agents...

This jury was a joke. This "investigation" was a joke...considering that Armitage had told the Justice Dept that HE was Novak's source AND the JD TOLD FITZ the day he started the job.

FARCE. All of it.

[blogslut]

14. covert shmovert

Semantics. Her status was classified. Ask them what part of "classified" they don't understand.

"...her relationship with the CIA was classified — I have 100% confidence in this information."
Patrick Fitzgerald -March 6, 2007

http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/03/06/fitzgerald-post-trial-press-conference/

[Tennessee Gal]

18. The IIPA says "covert" ................

It doesn't say "classified."

[blogslut]

21. and I'm saying

...whoever you're dealing with is trying to baffle you with BS. Covert/Classified, it's the same thing.

[BOSSHOG]

24. Its similar

to choosing a description for a conservative:

- a jerkoff moron, or
- an ignorant motherfucker

A covert operatives status would certainly be classified. Or ask a conservative to explain why it wouldn't be. If they weren't such a danger to our security, fucking with conservatives would be fun.

[Marie26]

30. I don't think that's true

All covert officers are classified, but not all classified officers are covert. They're not identical terms.

[blogslut]

31. It doesn't matter

The CIA asked the DOJ to investigate the outing of Valerie Wilson. That investigation was impeded and obstructed by I. Lewis Libby. Libby was found guilty on four out of five counts.

We don't know if there was a crime because the investigation was ruined by Libby. What we do know is that the CIA asked the DOJ to investigate.

If you know somethng about CIA agent statuses, now's the time to pipe up.

[Marie26]

32. That's all true

What I'm saying is that someone can be classified w/o being considered covert. It's right there in the IIPA statute.

[blogslut]

34. Can you cite that passage?

My brain is still asleep. :)

Is it not true that public is uninformed as to whether or not Mrs. Wilson was covert? Was that evidence not quelched in the great grey mail battle?

[Marie26]

35. Sure

The term “covert agent” means—
(A) a present or retired officer or employee of an intelligence agency or a present or retired member of the Armed Forces assigned to duty with an intelligence agency—

(i) whose identity as such an officer, employee, or member is classified information, AND

(ii) who is serving outside the United States or has within the last five years served outside the United States.

So, there's two requirements to be a covert agent under IIPA - 1.) classified identity AND 2.) served outside the US. Classified status alone is not enough to make someone a covert agent.

The public is uninformed about whether Ms. Wilson was a covert agent or not when her identity was leaked. It seems like the CIA & Fitz haven't definitively stated that she was, the evidence is sealed as classified, and it's so secret that people who know couldn't tell. She was undercover, and her identity was classified information. But was she a covert agent, as defined under IIPA? I dunno - maybe we'll never know for certain.

[MannyGoldstein]

19. Her Status Was Classified

Here's part of the transcript from Fitzgerald's press conference after indicting Libby:

"Valerie Wilson was a CIA officer. In July 2003, the fact that Valerie Wilson was a CIA officer was classified. Not only was it classified, but it was not widely known outside the intelligence community.

Valerie Wilson's friends, neighbors, college classmates had no idea she had another life.

The fact that she was a CIA officer was not well- known, for her protection or for the benefit of all us. It's important that a CIA officer's identity be protected, that it be protected not just for the officer, but for the nation's security.

Valerie Wilson's cover was blown in July 2003. The first sign of that cover being blown was when Mr. Novak published a column on July 14th, 2003.

But Mr. Novak was not the first reporter to be told that Wilson's wife, Valerie Wilson, Ambassador Wilson's wife Valerie, worked at the CIA. Several other reporters were told.

In fact, Mr. Libby was the first official known to have told a reporter when he talked to Judith Miller in June of 2003 about Valerie Wilson."

[Tennessee Gal]

20. The law uses the word "covert"

TITLE 50--WAR AND NATIONAL DEFENSE

CHAPTER 15--NATIONAL SECURITY

SUBCHAPTER IV--PROTECTION OF CERTAIN NATIONAL SECURITY INFORMATION
Sec. 421. Protection of identities of certain United States
undercover intelligence officers, agents, informants, and
sources
(a) Disclosure of information by persons having or having had access to
classified information that identifies covert agent
Whoever, having or having had authorized access to classified
information that identifies a covert agent, intentionally discloses any
information identifying such covert agent to any individual not
authorized to receive classified information, knowing that the
information disclosed so identifies such covert agent and that the
United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such covert
agent's intelligence relationship to the United States, shall be fined
not more than $50,000 or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

http://foi.missouri.edu/bushinfopolicies/protection.html

[MannyGoldstein]

29. So What?

They blew the cover of a secret CIA agent. It may not be illegal, per se - but it's awful and dispicable. Lying to cover it up is flat-out illegal, and Mr. Scooter would be going to jail if Bush hadn't pardoned him (which he will).

[City Lights]

25. I found this at truthout:

Fitzgerald said Libby and Cheney were incensed at Plame's husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, who publicly accused the Bush administration of manipulating intelligence to win support for a US led invasion against Iraq. Fitzgerald said Cheney was "obsessed" with Wilson and had taken the former ambassador's attacks against the administration personally. "Cheney," Fitzgerald told jurors, "enlisted Libby to act as his surrogate and personally respond to reporters' queries about the veracity of Wilson's allegations by authorizing his chief of staff to leak classified information to journalists. The classified information that was leaked may have included Plame's covert status," Fitzgerald said, "in retaliation for her husband's stinging rebukes of the administration's Iraq policies."

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/022107A.shtml

[Tennessee Gal]

26. That's good, but ....................

right wingers argue that Cheney had the legal authority to declassify.

[alcuno]

28. Then he needs to come forward and say that he did that.

Classified means that they can't tell you her status because it's.....classified. Mr. Cheney can come forward at any time and say that at the time, he declassified Mrs. Wilson's status witht he CIA. He has never done it and he cannot declassify material retroactively.

Can you imagine the furor if the VP of the US came out and said that he had to decided to declassify the status of a covert operative of the CIA? If the right-wingers think the uproar is bad now, that would make it ten times worse.

In conclusion, Libby tried to get the original CIA referral to the Justice Department but the judge ruled that he couldn't have it. Why? Because it contained classified material. End of story.

[Me.]

33. I Can Neither Confirm Or Deny

Is how the status of a noc is handled. Even if, as in the case of Plame, the agent has been outed, they will never ever discuss it. That she is classified is all the public will ever hear.

[Tennessee Gal]

37. WITH TODAY'S NEWS WE MAY KNOW FOR SURE VERY SOON!

WAXMAN to hold hearings!

PLAME will testify!

[H2O Man]

38. Try this:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11179719/site/newsweek/

You can also visit Mr. Fitzgerald's web site, and find the federal judge's opinion referenced in the above article.