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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 11:14 AM
Original message
Scientists Question FBI Probe On Anthrax (WAPO)
Edited on Sun Aug-03-08 11:15 AM by kpete
Scientists Question FBI Probe On Anthrax


"USAMRIID doesn't deal with powdered anthrax," said Richard O. Spertzel, a former biodefense scientist who worked with Ivins at the Army lab. "I don't think there's anyone there who would have the foggiest idea how to do it. You would need to have the opportunity, the capability and the motivation, and he didn't possess any of those."

Another scientist who worked with Ivins acknowledged it would have been technically possible to manufacture powdered anthrax at Fort Detrick, but unlikely that anyone could have done so without being detected.

"As well as we knew each other, and the way the labs were run, someone would discover what was going on," said the scientist, "especially since dry spores were not something that we prepared or worked with."

Scientists, co-workers and people who for years have researched the anthrax investigation, only to encounter frustration, misinformation and false leads, say law enforcement authorities should lay out their case as soon as possible. They want authorities to explain how Ivins, who led a seemingly normal life as a family man, churchgoer and volunteer, could have been responsible for one of the nation's most notorious unsolved crimes.

more at:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/02/AR2008080201632_2.html?nav=rss_email/components&sid=ST2008080201962&pos=
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. k&r. nt
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Vanje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
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FredStembottom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
3. self delete
Edited on Sun Aug-03-08 11:39 AM by FredStembottom
too hyperbolic.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
4. me think, M-m-m-m-Mukasey had better have more than just Duley up his sleeve
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
5. Good! because this looks like a murder and a cover-up.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
6. K&R, case NOT closed n/t
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
7. Oh fer Chrissake.
:kick:
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judasdisney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
8. Dead Microbiologists
Nov. 16, 2001: Don C. Wiley, 57--Expertise: One of the foremost microbiologists in the United States. Dr. Wiley, of the Howard Hughes Medical Institute at Harvard University, was an expert on how the
immune system responds to viral attacks such as the classic doomsday plagues of HIV, ebola and influenza.--Circumstances of Death: He had just bought tickets to take his son to Graceland the following day. He had just left a banquet for fellow researchers in Memphis. Police found his rental car on a bridge outside Memphis, Tenn. His body was found Dec. 20 in the Mississippi River. his family said he was in perfect health. There was no autopsy.
Nov. 21, 2001: Vladimir Pasechnik, 64--Expertise: World-class microbiologist and high-profile
Russian defector; defected to the United Kingdom in 1989, played a huge role in Russian biowarfare and helped to figure out how to modify cruise missiles to deliver the agents of mass biological destruction.--Background: founded Regma Biotechnologies company in Britain, a laboratory at Porton Down, the country´s chem-bio warfare defense establishment. Regma currently has a contract with the U.S. Navy for "the diagnostic and therapeutic treatment of anthrax".--Circumstances of Death: The pathologist who did the autopsy, and who also happened to be associated with Britain´s spy agency, concluded he died of a stroke. Details of the postmortem were not revealed at an inquest, in which the press was given no prior notice. Colleagues who had worked with Pasechnik said he was
in good health.
Dec. 10, 2001: Robert M. Schwartz, 57--Expertise: Expert in DNA sequencing and pathogenic micro-organisms, founding member of the Virginia Biotechnology Association, and the Executive Director of Research and Development at Virginia´s Center for
Innovative Technology in Herndon.--Circumstances of Death: stabbed and slashed with what
police believe was a sword in his farmhouse in Leesberg, Va. His daughter, who identifies herself as a pagan high priestess, and several of her fellow pagans have been charged.
Dec. 14, 2001: Nguyen Van Set, 44--Expertise: animal diseases facility of the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization had just come to fame for discovering a virulent strain of mousepox, which could be modified to affect smallpox.--Circumstances: died at work in Geelong, Australia, in a laboratory accident. He entered an airlocked storage lab and died from exposure to nitrogen.
January 2002: Two dead microbiologists: Ivan Glebov
and Alexi Brushlinski. Glebov died as the result of a bandit attack and Brushlinski was killed in Moscow. Both were well known around the world and members of the Russian Academy of Science.
January 28, 2002: David W. Barry, 58--Expertise: Scientist who codiscovered AZT, the antiviral drug that is considered the first effective treatment for AIDS.--Circumstances:
Feb. 9, 2002: Victor Korshunov, 56--Expertise: Expert in intestinal bacteria of children around the world--Circumstances: bashed over the head near his home in Moscow.Feb. 14, 2002: Ian Langford, 40--Expertise: expert in environmental risks and disease.--Circumstances: found dead in his home near Norwich, England, naked from the waist down and wedged under a
chair.
Feb. 28, 2002: Tanya Holzmayer, 46--Expertise: a Russian who moved to the U.S. in 1989, focused on the part of the human molecular structure that could be affected best by medicine.--Circumstances: killed by fellow microbiologist Guyang (Matthew) Huang, who shot her seven times when she opened the door to a pizza delivery. Then he shot
himself.
Feb. 28, 2002: Guyang Huang, 38--Expertise: Microbiologist--Circumstances: Apparently shot himself after shooting
fellow microbiologist, Tanya Holzmayer, seven times.
March 24, 2002: David Wynn-Williams, 55--Expertise: Respected astrobiologist with the British Antarctic Survey, who studied the habits of microbes that might survive in outer space.--Circumstances: Died in a freak road accident near his home in Cambridge, England. He was hit by a car while he was jogging.
March 25, 2002: Steven Mostow, 63--Expertise: Known as "Dr. Flu" for his expertise in treating influenza, and a noted expert in bioterrorism of the Colorado Health Sciences Centre.--Circumstances: died when the airplane he was piloting
crashed near Denver.
Nov. 12, 2002: Benito Que, 52--Expertise: Expert in infectious diseases and cellular biology at the Miami Medical School--Circumstances of Death: Que left his laboratory after receiving a telephone call. Shortly afterward he was found comatose in the parking lot of the Miami Medical School. He died without regaining consciousness. Police
said he had suffered a heart attack. His family insisted he had been in perfect health and claimed four men attacked him. But, later, oddly, the family inquest returned a verdict of death by natural causes.
April 2003: Carlo Urbani, 46--Expertise: A dedicated and internationally respected
Italian epidemiologist, who did work of enduring value combating infectious illness around the world.--Circumstances: Died in Bangkok from SARS (severe acute respiratory syndrome) - the new disease that he had helped to identify. Thanks to his prompt action, the epidemic was contained in Vietnam. However, because of close daily contact with SARS patients, he contracted
the infection. On March 11, he was admitted to a hospital in Bangkok and isolated. Less than three weeks later he died.
June 24, 2003: Dr. Leland Rickman of UCSD, 47A resident of Carmel Valley--Expertise: An expert in infectious disease who helped the county prepare to fight bioterrorism after Sept. 11.--Circumstances: He was in the African nation of Lesotho with Dr. Chris Mathews of UCSD, the director of the university's Owen Clinic for AIDS patients. Dr. Rickman had complained of a headache and had gone to
lie down. When he didn't appear for dinner, Mathews checked on him and found him dead. A cause has not yet been determined.
July 18, 2003: Dr. David Kelly, 59--Expertise: Biological warfare weapons specialist, senior
post at the Ministry of Defense, an expert on DNA sequencing when he was head of microbiology at Porton Down--Helped Vladimir Pasechnik found Regma Biotechnologies, which has a contract with the U.S.
Navy for "the diagnostic and therapeutic treatment of anthrax"--worked with two American scientists, Benito Que, 52, and Don Wiley, 57.--Circumstances: 'Suicide'
Oct 24, 2003: Michael Perich, 46--Expertise: LSU professor who helped fight the spread of the West Nile virus. Perich worked with the East Baton Rouge Parish Mosquito Control and Rodent Abatement District to determine whether mosquitoes in the area carried West Nile.--Circumstances: Walker Police Chief Elton Burns said Sunday that Perich of 5227 River Bend Blvd., Baton Rouge, crashed his Ford pickup truck about 4:30 a.m. Saturday, while heading west on Interstate 12 in
Livingston Parish. Perich's truck veered right off the highway about 3 miles east of Walker, flipped and landed in rainwater, Burns said. Perich, who was wearing his seat belt, drowned. The cause of the crash is under
investigation, Burns said. "Mike is one of the few entomologists with the experience to go out and save lives today." ~ Robert A. Wirtz, chief of entomology at the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
November 22, 2003: Robert Leslie Burghoff, 45--Expertise: He was studying the virus that was plaguing
cruise ships until he was killed by a mysterious white van in November of 2003--Circumstances: Burghoff was walking on a sidewalk along the 1600 block of South Braeswood when a white van jumped the curb and hit him at 1:35 p.m. Thursday, police said. The van then sped away. Burghoff died an hour later at Memorial Hermann Hospital.
December 18, 2003: Robert Aranosia, 61--Expertise: Oakland County deputy medical examiner--Circumstances: He was driving south on I-75 when his pickup truck went off the freeway near a bridge over the
Kawkawlin River. The vehicle rolled over several times before landing in the median. Aranosia was thrown from the vehicle and ended up on the shoulder of the northbound lanes.
January 6, 2004: Dr Richard Stevens, 54--Expertise: A haematologist. (Haematologists analyse the cellular composition of blood and blood producing tissues eg bone marrow)--Circumstances: Disappeared after arriving for work on 21 July, 2003. A doctor whose disappearance sparked a national manhunt, killed himself because he could not cope with the stress of a secret affair, a coroner has ruled.
January 23 2004: Dr. Robert E. Shope, 74--Expertise: An expert on viruses who was the principal author of a highly publicized 1992 report by the National Academy of Sciences warning of the possible emergence of new and unsettling infectious illnesses. Dr. Shope had
accumulated his own collection of virus samples gathered from all over the world.--Circumstances: The cause was complications of a lung transplant he received in December, said his daughter Deborah Shope of Galveston. Dr. Shope had pulmonary fibrosis, a disease of unknown origin that scars the lungs.
January 24 2004: Dr. Michael Patrick Kiley, 62--Expertise: Ebola, Mad Cow Expert, top of the line
world class.--Circumstances: Died of massive heart attack. Coincidently, both Dr. Shope and Dr. Kiley were
working on the lab upgrade to BSL 4 at the UTMB Galvaston lab for Homeland Security. The lab would have to be secure to house some of the deadliest pathogens of tropical and emerging infectious disease as
well as bioweaponized ones.
April 12, 2004: Ilsley Ingram, 84--Expertise: Director of the Supraregional Haemophilia Reference Centre and the Supraregional Centre for the Diagnosis of Bleeding Disorders at the St. Thomas
Hospital in London.--Circumstances: unknown
May 14, 2004: Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, 56--Expertise: Mallove was well respected for his
knowledge of cold fusion. He had just published an open letter outlining the results of and reasons for his last 15 years in the field of new energy research. Dr. Mallove was convinced it was only a matter of months before the world would actually see a free energy device.--Circumstances: Died after being beaten to death during an alleged robbery.
May 25, 2004: Antonina Presnyakova--Expertise: Former Soviet biological weapons laboratory in Siberia--Circumstances: Died after accidentally sticking herself with a needle laced with Ebola.
June 24, 2004: Dr. Assefa Tulu, 45--Expertise: Dr. Tulu joined the health department in
1997 and served for five years as the county's lone epidemiologist. He was charged with tracking the health of the county, including the spread of diseases, such as syphilis, AIDS and measles. He also designed a system
for detecting a bioterrorism attack involving viruses or bacterial agents. Tulu often coordinated efforts to address major health concerns in Dallas County, such as the West Nile virus outbreaks of the past few years, and worked with the media to inform the public.--Circumstances: Dallas County's chief epidemiologist, was found at his desk, died of a stroke.
June 27, 2004: Dr Paul Norman, Of Salisbury, Wiltshire, 52--Expertise: He was the chief scientist for chemical and
biological defence at the Ministry of Defence's laboratory at Porton Down, Wiltshire.--Circumstances: He was killed when the single-engine Cessna 206 he was piloting crashed in Devon on Sunday. A father and daughter also died at the scene, and 44-year-old parachute instructor and Royal Marine Major Mike Wills later died in hospital.
June 29, 2004: John Mullen, 67--Expertise: A nuclear research scientist with McDonnell
Douglas.--Circumstances: Died from a huge dose of poisonous arsenic.
July 1, 2004: Edward Hoffman, 62--Expertise: Aside from his role as a professor, Hoffman held leadership positions within the UCLA medical community. Worked to develop the first human PET scanner in 1973 at Washington University in St. Louis.--Circumstances: unknown
July 2, 2004: Larry Bustard, 53--Expertise: A Sandia scientist who helped develop a
foam spray to clean up congressional buildings and media sites during the anthrax scare in 2001. Worked at Sandia National Laboratories in Albuquerque. His team came up with a new technology used against biological and chemical agents.--Circumstances: unknown
July 3, 2004: Dr Paul Norman, 52--Expertise: The chief scientist for chemical and biological defence at the Ministry of Defence's laboratory
at Porton Down, Wiltshire--Circumstances: He was killed when the single-engine Cessna 206 he was piloting crashed in Devon.
July 6, 2004: Stephen Tabet, 42--Expertise: An associate professor and epidemiologist at the University of Washington. A world-renowned HIV doctor and researcher who worked with HIV patients in a vaccine clinical trial for the HIV Vaccine Trials Network.--Circumstances: Died of an unknown illness
July 21, 2004: Dr Bassem al-Mudares--Expertise: He was a phD chemist--Circumstances: His mutilated body was found in the city of Samarra, Iraq and had been tortured before being killed.
August 12, 2004: Professor John Clark--Expertise: Head of the science lab which created Dolly the sheep. Prof Clark led the Roslin Institute in Midlothian, one of the world's leading animal biotechnology research centres. He played a crucial role
in creating the transgenic sheep that earned the institute worldwide fame.--Circumstances: He was found hanging in his holiday home.
September 5, 2004: Mohammed Toki Hussein al-Talakani--Expertise: Iraqi nuclear scientist. He was a practising nuclear physicist since 1984.--Circumstances: He was shot dead in Mahmudiya, south of Baghdad.
November 2, 2004: John R. La Montagne--Expertise: Head of US Infectious Diseases unit under Tommie Thompson. Was NIAID Deputy Director.--Circumstances: Died while in Mexico, no cause stated.
December 29, 2004: Tom Thorne and Beth Williams--Expertise: Two wild life scientists, Husband-and-wife wildlife veterinarians who were nationally prominent experts on chronic wasting disease and brucellosis--Circumstances: They were killed in a snowy-weather crash on U.S. 287 in northern Colorado.
December 21, 2004: Taleb Ibrahim al-Daher--Expertise: Iraqi nuclear scientist--Circumstances: He was shot dead north of Baghdad by unknown gunmen. He was on his way towork at Diyala University when armed men opened fire on his car as it was crossing a bridge in Baqouba, 57 km northeast of Baghdad. The vehicle swerved off the bridge and fell into the Khrisan river. Al-Daher, who was a
professor at the local university, was removed from the submerged car and rushed to Baqouba hospital where he was pronounced dead.
January 7, 2005: Jeong H. Im, 72--Expertise: A retired research assistant professor at the University of Missouri-Columbia. Primarily a protein chemist.--Circumstances: He was stabbed several times and his body was found in the trunk of his burning white, 1995 Honda inside the Maryland Avenue parking garage.

Masterlist: www.nogw.com/download/2005masterlist_dead_scientists.pdf
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Judasdisney, what do you take from this?
I mean, here are all these deaths. What does it mean.
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judasdisney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-05-08 04:20 AM
Response to Reply #13
28. Operation Condor, Operation Phoenix,
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-05-08 04:30 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. It's an ugly world. nt
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #8
25. there are some very good people on that list
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
9. The powder form of anthrax is rare. If that guy wasn't working with it
in the course of his job then he probably didn't do it.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. An ex co-worker says they weren't doing power at that site.
:shrug:
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lutherj Donating Member (788 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
11. The other thing that seems a little suspicious is the assertion that he
was a "revenge killer" who had tried to poison several other people, according to the therapist. It seems that there would be some kind of record of this. Why wasn't he prosecuted?
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rainy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #11
23. Yes and her fear seemed to stem from recent events. He was convinced
they were about to indict him and it drove him to anger and want to take a bunch of people with him. If people were accusing you of stuff you didn't do, were harassing you, bullying you and threatening you how would you feel? Not you personally but anyone.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #11
26. Because it's not true. It sounds like the FBI scared the cr@p
out of her to gain her confidence and it worked.
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Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 01:11 AM
Response to Original message
12. kr
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 05:02 AM
Response to Original message
14. NYT and NY Daily News
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/04/us/04anthrax.html

The evidence amassed by F.B.I. investigators against Dr. Bruce E. Ivins, the Army scientist who killed himself last week after learning that he was likely to be charged in the anthrax letter attacks of 2001, was largely circumstantial, and a grand jury in Washington was planning to hear several more weeks of testimony before issuing an indictment, a person who has been briefed on the investigation said on Sunday.


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2008/08/02/2008-08-02_fbi_was_told_to_blame_anthrax_scare_on_a.html

In the immediate aftermath of the 2001 anthrax attacks, White House officials repeatedly pressed FBI Director Robert Mueller to prove it was a second-wave assault by Al Qaeda, but investigators ruled that out, the Daily News has learned.

After the Oct. 5, 2001, death from anthrax exposure of Sun photo editor Robert Stevens, Mueller was "beaten up" during President Bush's morning intelligence briefings for not producing proof the killer spores were the handiwork of terrorist mastermind Osama Bin Laden, according to a former aide.
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tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Over and over again, the Bush administration functions with a believer mindset
rather than a scientific mindset. And I'm talking about more than religious issues here. No matter what the problem is, a scientific mindset would seek to uncover more and more information until they arrive at the truth. The Bush administration starts with what they want the truth to be and they try with all their might to make the information fit their pre-determined scenario.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #14
27. Cheney and Bush never got the Anthrax Vaccine
and yet our soldiers were guinea pigs and got Anthrax with scalene in it which has many bad effects and all because Saddam was thought to have Anthrax which he didn't

Lies and Lies and the one man who could be questioned is dead
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 07:52 AM
Response to Original message
16. "USAMRIID doesn't deal with powdered anthrax,"
That tells you all you need to know. It wasn't some lone scientist gone mad. Powered Anthrax = Weaponized Anthrax from Army stockpiles.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. not necessarily
the U.S. govt. has private cos. making anthrax... isn't that interesting to learn?

I think the facility that people wonder about is Dugway. Dugway used to send its anthrax to Ft. Detrick via FEDEX!! - to have Detrick irradiate their anthrax to make it -- inert, or whatever it makes it (again, real the link, don't trust me) and then the stuff was shipped back to Dugway.

IOW, this could also have been industrial sabotage... and Bayer was saved from bankruptcy because suddenly everyone wanted to buy Cipro. The govt. refused to break the patent on Cipro, btw, at this time, tho Canada did, so that inexpensive generic versions could be made available to the American ppl. Just one more possibility, as horrific as the idea may be.

http://letters.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/03/journalism/permalink/6aeafc3d9831f3b53eac93486c6a8b4b.html

Jim White, the person writing the above in Glenn Greenwald's comments, is knowledgeable about bioweapons issues.

You really should go to Salon.com and read Glenn Greenwald's posts about this issue -- and the comments, tho there are a lot of them. but there are ppl who comment who are prosecuting attns and ppl with knowledge of various aspects of this issue. I haven't gotten through all of them yet, but they're well worth it.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
17. We can, alas, trust nothing the republicon homelander government says
For they have lied so often, and about so many important things.

k and r.
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screembloodymurder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Sadly, the media is now a part of the government.
Edited on Mon Aug-04-08 09:19 AM by screembloodymurder
They too, can no longer be trusted. So where does that leave us, as citizens, in what is supposed to be our government and our country?

“Hear me: an unconscious people, an indoctrinated people, a people fed only partisan information and opinion that confirm their own bias, a people made morbidly obese in mind and spirit by the junk food of propaganda is less inclined to put up a fight, ask questions and be skeptical. And just as a democracy can die of too many lies, that kind of orthodoxy can kill us, too.” Bill Moyers
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stubtoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Isn't that the truth.
:(
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
18. Thank you for that incredibly depressing list, Judasdisney. We must demand
an autopsy and a continuation of the investigation. These Bushistas are so inept that they cannot even stage an end game, much less the truth. This man is innocent. The original distribution of the anthrax has the Cheney insignia all over it. Ivins should not be labeled in death in this way after his contributions.
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MadrasT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
20. How do we stop the lies?
:kick:
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
22. Cheney-Rove-Bush Death Trail nt
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-05-08 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
30. Ashcroft has his Thomas Butler, Gonzo his Hatfill, Mukasey - Ivins??
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