Inmates in South Carolina could soon find that a kidney is worth 180 days

[Jcrowley]

S.C. may cut jail time for organ donors
By SEANNA ADCOX, Associated Press Writer Thu Mar 8, 4:59 PM ET
COLUMBIA, S.C. - Inmates in South Carolina could soon find that a kidney is worth 180 days.

Lawmakers are considering legislation that would let prisoners donate organs or bone marrow in exchange for time off their sentences.

A state Senate panel on Thursday endorsed creating an organ-and-tissue donation program for inmates. But legislators postponed debate on a measure to reduce the sentences of participating prisoners, citing concern that federal law may not allow it.

"I think it's imperative that we go all out and see what we can do," said the bills' chief sponsor, Democratic Sen. Ralph Anderson. "I would like to see us get enough donors that people are no longer dying."

The proposal approved by the Senate Corrections and Penology Subcommittee would set up a volunteer donor program in prisons to teach inmates about the need for donors. But lawmakers want legal advice before acting on a bill that would shave up to 180 days off a prison sentence for inmates who donate.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070308/ap_on_re_us/inmates_organ_donations

[RC]

1. No. This is sick.

I don't care if it is so called Dems or what.

Just another reason to lock up American citizen in jails and prisons.

[Jcrowley]

3. I find this to be

very disturbing. I also find it disturbing to think of how unimportant and expendable are the lives of the prisoners.

This simply violates all codes of human decency and ethics.

[robinlynne]

2. sounds kind of like China...

[rasputin1952]

4. This is horrendous, it is a form of coercion and would never be

seen as legal under the Constitution.

A "Get of Jail Free" card for a kidney.

You get out a lot quicker for a heart!

:wtf: is the matter with some people? Maybe some in the SC Legislature could donate their brains...but
then again what would one due w/something that small?

[sendero]

5. My wife...

... is on the kidney transplant list right now. Even so, I don't think I can favor this sort of thing, it just isn't right.

[rasputin1952]

18. My thoughts go out to you and your wife...

I am a donor, and I know a lot of others are as well. I hope your wife gets a match soon..:hug:

[Horse with no Name]

33. My sympathies to you and your wife

Is she listed in more than one area?
Even with UNOS, the hospital I used to work at got first dibs at kidneys because they were one of the top procuring hospitals in Texas.
Good luck to both of you.:hug:

[sendero]

40. Thanks..

... yes, she is listed at a hospital in Dallas and one in Ft. Worth.

The average wait is about 2 years, but she has a good profile (no antibody issues, common blood type) so we might get lucky.

[Horse with no Name]

45. She might check out Tyler

Tyler has a fabulous organ transplant center and it might be a chance to jump a little higher on the list. They have some top-notch nephrologists.
Believe it or not, their medical community rivals AND beats the metroplex in many ways.
Give it a whirl. I don't think you will be displeased.
Good luck.

[knitter4democracy]

48. I'll be praying for her and you as well.

After what I went through last fall, I know how hard the surgery to get it out is. A transplant is harder but so important.

[Book Lover]

6. And let's take it from the "jail 'em all!" perspective:

This proposal subverts justice as served by a judicial determination of length of punishment. Why should a convicted person serve less time due to an altruistic gesture on their part? That action does not mitigate the transgression they were convicted of.

And from yet another own POV, a human kidney is worth a hell of a lot more than 6 months off a prison sentence. I am reminded of the paltry $20,000 I see offered to egg donors on craigslist. You want to take my eggs, and all I get is an amount equivalent to a new Ford Mustang?

[karlrschneider]

7. That is insane! A kidney should be worth at least a year!

:eyes:

[knitter4democracy]

49. Considering they could die from it, yeah.

It's going to take me a year to recover from my nephrectomy.

Where are they going to find surgeons okay with doing this? I'm sure the AMA would be against it.

[karlrschneider]

51. I guess the rolling eyes weren't sufficient to indicate

:sarcasm:

[knitter4democracy]

52. My bad. I'm just so angry about this.

And I really wonder if they talked to the doctor associations about this at all. It's so unethical.

[noamnety]

8. It's disgusting

I'm all for a VOLUNTARY organ donation program - for anyone. Teaching inmates about the need for donors is great.

But coercion isn't voluntary. Imprisoning people unless they let you harvest body parts from them is a clear violation of human rights.

[Heywood J]

57. Christ.

How many prisoners share needles? How many tattoo themselves or each other with dirty implements? How many take it in the ass unprotected, voluntarily or otherwise? How many use drugs brought into the prison in orifices? How many get shanked or cut in fights? Prison is not a sterile place.

As far as I know, organs are shared nationwide. If that's true, this would be a SERIOUS risk to the pool of organs available for transplant, a risk of contamination. All there needs to be is a single slip-up.

Given the track record of agencies like the FDA, etc. responsible for safety and even if you weren't in SC, would you trust that your organ didn't come from an infected prisoner looking to shave some time?

[dysfunctional press]

9. so, if i donate a kidney without breaking the law- do i get 180 days credit...?

for when i do decide to do something illegal.

[bobbolink]

10. I was afraid it was coming to this.

:cry:

WHERE'S MY COUNTRY, DUDE?

[struggle4progress]

11. Good thing we have lots of folk in jail for victimless drug crimes, eh?

:grr:

[w4rma]

12. These people have learned all the wrong things from doing buisness with China. (nt)

[rsr1771]

13. so wait...

...if a prisoner says he wants to give his kidney in exchange for 180 days of jail credit, who am I, or you, or anyone, to tell him he can't? I support individual choice and freedom. Do you really want to play "Big Brother" and tell him what he can or can't do with his organs?

[Jcrowley]

16. Is that satire?

n/t

[rsr1771]

20. absolutely not!

No I am completely serious. What makes you think you are in a better position than the inmate to make a decision about his body? Maybe he wants out sooner for whatever reason. But the bottom line is that it should be HIS choice- not yours.

[Jcrowley]

21. It's just that

when you are speaking about "choice" and "freedom" for prisoners who have neither of those things it is really so far beyond any serious consideration I just thought you had to be making it up.

Ultimately whenever anyone uses the facile qualifier of 'choice' in even a pedestrian setting it indicates a scant analysis of the situation. What are the range of 'choices'? How limited are those 'choices'? Who is deciding those 'choices' for those who get to 'choose'?

So when that post-modern fallacy, "Choice", is brought into a discussion revolving around the heinous practices of institutional incarceration one must assume it is satire or dark humor.

Evidently not.

[rsr1771]

23. i disagree

I am not saying I would give up my kidney for 180 days of credit. Frankly, I don't think it's a good decision. But we are not talking about me. We are talking about someone who, hypothetically, wants to do so.

And my position is that I would allow him. You, playing Big Brother, would tell him that he can't. That is a very paternalistic attitude.

[Jcrowley]

27. Um?

Big Brother is the one who put the system in place to put the folks in the prison and then declared, "If you give up some of your innards I'll give you a slight break, it's your choice."

That would not be me.

I'd be at a position that would preclude this so-called "choice" and would therefore take a deeper analysis that recognizes that what this proposal embodies is the height of depravity and exploitation.

[rsr1771]

32. that's great...

...that we have people like you telling other people what they can and can't do with their bodies.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

44. So you're saying...

if a convict killer wants to be let out of jail, he should be?

After all, if you're keeping him in prison, you're telling him what he can and can't do with his body.

:eyes:

[Kingshakabobo]

39. How much did you get for your brain? n/t

[Horse with no Name]

14. As an avid supporter of donation

I say not only NO but HELL NO!
To start with, it is very exploitive and organ donation is NOT without problems.
Petty drug crimes can turn into death sentences for those that are trying to shave a little time off their sentences to get home to their families.
It also reeks of human trafficking but that is a different rant altogether.:mad:

[ddeclue]

15. SC= Sick and Creepy.... n/t

[IDemo]

17. non-violent offenders --- America's renewable resource

"lawmakers want legal advice before acting". How about moral and ethical advice while we're at it?

[Rex]

19. They can work the fields and give their organs! Moral equivalency

for a reduced sentence! Sounds like a sweet deal for rich people! Do you get to pick your inmate?

[Straight Shooter]

22. Bone marrow, yes. Organs, no.

Bone marrow donations, IMHO, are somewhat around the same level as donating blood as far as the revulsion factor, and I wonder how people first reacted to that idea. I don't understand the process of marrow donation, but I believe it's quite painful. Someone else on DU with more knowledge can fill in on the procedure, and what its benefits are.

Organs? Nope. No way on God's green earth. That is super invasive, and it reminds me of the book, "Coma," where patients in a hospital are having their organs harvested, or maybe the movie "Dirty Pretty Things," which shows the exploitation of illegal immigrants who sell their kidneys. It's based on real life, and it's absolutely horrid to contemplate.

What next? Corneas? Pieces of your pancreas? Large grafts of skin?

A monstrous idea to sell one's organs for time off. Shame on the Dem Senator from South Carolina.

edit to add: by "revulsion factor," I am not revolted by the idea of bone marrow donation, per se, but it's wrong to use it as a bribe.

[Horse with no Name]

24. The risk of infection.

The majority of our prisons and jails are crawling with various germs.

[Straight Shooter]

25. You believe the donation would not be done in a sterile environment?

(As sterile as possible, anyway.)

I understand bone marrow donation is invasive, but I don't know to what degree. Definitely not as invasive as extracting a kidney. Are you saying that you think the prisoner would be returned to the prison too quickly after the procedure and thereby run the risk of sepsis perhaps?

I'm just trying to understand, because somewhere in the back of my mind I seem to remember reading that there is a serious shortage of bone marrow donations, it's something that most people don't think about. It would be nice if there were an upside to the Senator's idea, that it would at least get the issue on people's radar.

[Horse with no Name]

28. Absolutely.

But then they will be placed back in their cell while still recuperating from the transplant (they use a large bore needle which leaves a hole that takes a few days to heal completely).
They also put someone under general anesthesia. There is ALWAYS a risk of death associated with that.
I am 100% for donation (you can do a post search), but I absolutely object to our prison population being used as an organ farm.

[Straight Shooter]

29. I didn't know it required general anesthesia.

That makes a big difference. Anesthesia is such a delicate physiological balancing act. What recourse would a family have if their relative died undergoing such a procedure? Probably very little.

I believe you when you say you are 100% for donation. I don't need to do a post search. Thanks for answering my questions. :)

[Horse with no Name]

34. My guess is absolutely no recourse

:(

[knitter4democracy]

50. Except for the infections. Hep C and TB are rampant in prisons.

Our prison population gets disgusting health care, for the most part. Scary places, those prison clinics and hospitals.

[tblue37]

26. In China, they used prisoners' organs after they were executed.

Maybe theys till do that. You can be certain that it led them to execute even more people, so those organs could be harvested for the rich and powerful.

It is illegal to sell your organs. How could it possibly be legal to "sell" them for time off on a prison sentence? This is so clearly wrong that I am sickened just to think of it.

[Cobalt Violet]

31. It's a booming business. Now they using "live" donors.

Live donors for corneas, livers, kidneys, and hearts.

[Generic Brad]

30. So would donating two kidneys get you out almost a year early?

Since livers can grow back they should only be worth a month.

[REP]

37. Two Kidneys Gets You Out Forever - Feet First.

[Cobalt Violet]

35. Around 40% of them wouldn't be able to donate because of HCV.

Prison healthcare is so bad. I don't' think this is a good idea for the few who could donate. What kind of aftercare would they get?

[REP]

36. Heroin and Other IV Drug Users Probably Aren't Good Donors

Since I'm on the "demand" end of transplantation with a rare blood type, I'm more versed on my chances of getting a donor organ (snowball in hell), but I do know for sure that heroin use causes a form of the kidney disease I have and IV drug use increases the risk of HIV and several strains of hepatitis, which would make for unsuitable donor organs.

Plus, of course, the coerced donation thing. I object to the non-incarcerated being guilt-tripped into donating (remember, my kidneys are failing and I have the worst blood type for tx); bribing inmates with six months off for undergoing invasive, high-risk surgery is a bit frightening.

[MazeRat7]

38. I say thrown in a lung with that kidney and make it a 2-fer - they ought to get a pardon...

Talk about paying your debt... gezzz I thought only lenders took body parts as payment... :)

MZr7

[salin]

41. There is a ban on $ being exchanged for organ transplants...

it strikes me that this sort of policy flows along the same lines of the $.

[dogday]

42. The rich will get their new organs and the poor will

have to deal with the criminal when they get out.... Sure this make real good sense...

[GeorgeGist]

43. They should have sought legal advice before ....

proposing this bill. It won't fly in this country unless federal laws are changed.

[NorthernSpy]

46. if prisoners cannot give uncoerced and legally valid consent to sex with a guard...

... how can they possibly give uncoerced and legally valid consent to "donate" parts of their own bodies?

You see, I don't think they can. When the state has custody of your body, there's probably no such thing as free and uncoerced consent -- and especially not in a scenario in which your jailers offer to unlock the door if you'll just let them cut out some of your organs.


You know what else? If it weren't for the efforts of people like us, this country very likely would lapse into the sort of institutionalized atrocity characteristic of unfree states such as China. We ourselves are the obstacle in the way of that.

[knitter4democracy]

47. I lost a kidney this last fall. It's a major surgery, and it sucks.

It's also going to take a year or so to recover from, and some people who donate have huge complications. One of which is kidney failure in the remaining kidney.

No. This is not okay. Those people have the right to keep their organs and not be chopped up, even to fill a huge societal need. Secondly, a freakin' huge number are infected with Hep C, so they shouldn't donate anything, even blood. If not Hep C, they have other communicable diseases (the TB rate in prisons is very high, too). Bad. Bad idea.

No one should donate a kidney to get a reduced sentence--especially if they end up dying from it.

[RestoreGore]

53. And how many who would "choose" will not live through the operation?

Or just be guinea pigs for "experimentation? THIS IS SICK BEYOND BELIEF. And I am sorry I didn't see this sooner or I would have recommended it.

[ToeBot]

54. What's next, organs for dept relief?

It would certainly redefine the nature of collection agencies and repo-men!

[stonebone]

55. kick

[Jonathan50]

56. I guarantee that this legislation will have "unintended" consequences

Larry Niven had this figured out in 1968. A shortage of available organs will lead to organ harvesting from convicted criminals which will then lead to more and harsher criminal statutes in order to provide more organs for transplants.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Gift_From_Earth

Much of A Gift From Earth revolves around Niven's idea that organ transplants would lead to a shortage of suitable donors, causing citizens to support widespread capital punishment for even trivial crimes, in order to ward off the effects of their own aging and death. This theme recurs in other Niven stories, particularly the Gil Hamilton stories.

[jmowreader]

58. Here's the next step

Creating a National Tissue Registry of all earning less than $25,000/year who aren't in the Republican Party.

When a Repuke or a $250,000/year citizen needs a transplant, the NTR will be searched to figure out who to arrest. "Donate a kidney and you'll be free!"