"Ga. Moves Closer on School Bible Classes" PUBLIC SCHOOL Bible classes.

[in_cog_ni_to]

Ga. Moves Closer on School Bible Classes
By DOUG GROSS, Associated Press Writer

ATLANTA - Georgia is poised to introduce two literature classes on the Bible in public schools next year, a move analysts say would make the state the first to take an explicit stance endorsing _ and funding _ biblical teachings. The Bible already is incorporated into some classes in Georgia and other states, but some critics say the board's move, which makes the Bible the classes' main text, treads into dangerous turf.

On a list of classes approved Thursday by the Georgia Board of Education are Literature and History of the Old Testament Era, and Literature and History of the New Testament Era. The classes, approved last year by the Legislature, will not be required, and the state's 180 school systems can decide for themselves whether to offer them.

The school board's unanimous vote set up a 30-day public comment period, after which it is expected to give final approval.

Senate Majority Leader Tommie Williams, the Republican who sponsored the plan, said the Bible plays a major role in history and is important in understanding many classic literary works.<snip>

http://www.comcast.net/news/index.jsp?cat=GENERAL&fn=/2007/03/08/605963.html

[Initech]

1. If it's not required, then what's the problem?

I honestly have no problems with schools teaching religious classes as long as it's an elective. If it's required, THEN I have a problem with it.

[Shallah Kali]

6. They need to teach all religions or none from Athiesm to Zoroastorism

Watch how fast they retract this plan if the kids taking it also were exposed to other religions.

[The Straight Story]

12. The bible has had a major influenece in this country and in it's

literature. Has Islam or buddhism, etc?

If people believe it is a work of fiction, I don't see what the problem is.

[Toots]

29. Islam has had a very fundamental influence in America

The very first war we fought after the revolutionary war was against the pirates off the coast of Africa. We entered into our very first Treaty called the Treaty of Tripoli which also states by the way that America is in no way a Christian Nation and according to the US Constitution a Treaty is the Supreme Law of the land..

[in_cog_ni_to]

7. Christians aren't the ONLY people who pay taxes for PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

Public Schools are the last place religious classes should be taught. What are churches for? Why is this NEEDED in our PUBLIC Schools?...which people of other faiths pay taxes for. If they want to teach Christianity, they need to teach all these too:

Baha'i Faith
Buddhism
Confucianism
Hinduism
Islam
Jainism
Judaism
Shinto
Sikhism
Taoism
Vodun (Voodoo)
Asatru (Norse Paganism) *
Druidism
Goddess Worship
Wicca
Witchcraft
Caodaism
Damanhur Community
Druze
Eckankar
Elian Gonzalez religious movement
Gnosticism
Gypsies
Hare Krishna - ISKCON
Lukumi
Macumba
Mowahhidoon
Native American Spirituality
Rom, Roma, Romani, Rroma, (a.k.a. Gypsies)
Santeria Elian Gonzalez religious movement
Satanism; The Church of Satan
Scientology
Unitarian-Universalism
The Creativity Movement (formerly called World Church of the Creator
Zoroastrianism

GO TO A CHURCH if you want to learn about religion.

The phrase "separation of church and state" is derived from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to a group identifying themselves as the Danbury Baptists. In that letter, quoting the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, he writes: "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between Church and State."

Another early user of the term was James Madison, the principal drafter of the United States Bill of Rights, who often wrote of "total separation of the church from the state" (1819 letter to Robert Walsh). "Strongly guarded . . . is the separation between religion and government in the Constitution of the United States," Madison wrote, and he declared, "practical distinction between Religion and Civil Government is essential to the purity of both, and as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States" (1811 letter to Baptist Churches). This attitude is further reflected in the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, which was originally authored by Thomas Jefferson, but championed by Madison. The Declaration guarantees that no one may be compelled to finance any religion or denomination.

... no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinion in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.

[AzDar]

28. Excellent post. n/t

[Spangle]

2. Have a Rabbi teach it

The Christians would be suprised. It wouldn't be what they would think.

[ElkHunter]

3. What else would you expect from Jesusland?

Perhaps the best thing we could do is cede the South to the Taliban.

[Clark2008]

26. Perhaps you need to take a class on history.

The South is less "fundie" than the mid-West. The Great Plains States are far more "red" than anywhere in the South.

Are you going to call for them to leave the union, as well?

[saltpoint]

4. 'Am finally getting around to Thomas Frank's WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH KANSAS,

and wonder if maybe some of these nutcase fundies in Georgia might want to pick up a copy.

It might do 'em some good.

[ComerPerro]

8. his theory of the so-called "backlash mentality" really nails fundiethink

[saltpoint]

9. It does. I was reading it waiting to pick up a friend at O'Hare and

Rahm Emmanuel walked by!

It was such a gas. He saw the book I was reading and we nodded and smiled at each other!

One of those rare celebrity sightings at the airport.

[ComerPerro]

10. I have mixed feelings on him. Good guy, too DLCish. But, that's a whole nother topic

[saltpoint]

11. I understand and share your ambivalence. I should have focused on

the Frank book. It's wonderful. Thomas Frank is spellbinding. What a writer! He could put out a book on fish vomit and I'd buy a hundred copies.

[ComerPerro]

13. well, he writes and approches the topic as a midwesterner

he bases Kansas relentlessly, but you can still tell it is a state and a people he truly loves.

[saltpoint]

14. Yes. And he seems to miss the good parts of it that have been threatened

or erased by the modern shift in public life.

His sentences are just splendid. There were several times I burst out laughing in the airport. Passersby must have assumed I was insane.

[ComerPerro]

15. its a very uplifting book, despite the grim subject matters

his thesis is amazing, how conservative fundies hijacked the populist movement and made it their own. His point that supposed pro-lifers see themselves as modern day abolitionists is spot on.

[Nevernose]

5. And I'm fine with that, Just not the intention behind it.

I teach a lot of Bible stuff. I'm a "secular humanist" and a Unitarian, mostly, but I still need to teach the stuff. To anyone getting a good liberal arts degree (or, in the case of public schools, planning on getting one), a good background in Christian mythology is important.

I teach quite a bit of the Bible right now, just so I can explain Mark Twain -- a well known iconoclast. In fact, it's hard to teach anything -- from Milton to Marx to Animal Farm -- if there's not some common understanding of Christian theology.

Of course, we all know it's a plot to put "Christian teachings" back into the schools. As if a lot of teachers would know what to do with actual Christianity it jumped up and bit them in the ass. More excuses for bringing THEIR brand of religion into the public schools.

And for the record: The Bible, King James version, is one of my favorite books. For those of y'all who are "heathens," it's worth a read at least once, even if it's just to see what the big deal's all about.

[rockymountaindem]

16. I often wish that they would have put them in my school a few years ago for one reason

I'd have been first on the list for that class, and I'd have gotten in there and messed it up for them so bad they'd want to cancel it. Why?

Because I'm Jewish. I believe in God and the "Old Testament", but not Jesus or the Gospels or Revelation. Now, the fundamentals in my experience (and I've got a lot living in Colorado Springs) know how to deal with atheists, which is to hate on them and tell themselves atheists don't matter because they just "haven't heard the call" or "can't wrap their heads around God". But as for people like me, they're totally stumped. They can't call me out, either, because they bend over backwards to be nice to Jews (because the Bible says that those who bless the Jews will be blessed themselves). So there's no way they would ever be able to confront me directly. None of them ever did.

Yep. Me and a handful of my Mormon friends (who were plentiful in supply at my school) could have made that plan completely backfire on them.

[Clark2008]

27. See - I don't think that would have "messed it up" for them.

I think you would have given an impressive argument that would have made class discussions more lively.

[rockymountaindem]

31. No, it would have messed it up for them

They only want to hear what they want to hear. Jews and Mormons make that very hard for them, since our interpretations of things are so different. Another thing: the fundamentalists always try to be nice to Jews, not so with the Mormons. Definately no love of any kind there.

[Solly Mack]

17. "era" is attached on the end for a very pointed reason

the class could have been called Lit and History of the OT/ NT...and been without doubt about the teaching of christianity...couldn't spin it any other way

but the era on the end allows the argument to be made that it isn't so much teaching the bible or christianity as the lit and history of that particular era ...that particular time(s) in history when the OT and NT were written...influences of and upon

I just think the added "era" isn't exactly unintentional.

[GreenZoneLT]

18. This could be a good thing, but they'll probably let the fundies screw it up

The King James Bible should be required reading in many literature classes; it's the source of innumerable allusions and storylines in later literature and is a classic piece of writing all on its own. Here's just one, tiny example: John Steinbeck's "East of Eden" is based on the story of Cain and Abel.

Man, history and lit of the Old Testament Era. Big topic. They going to include the Epic of Gilgamesh in that? History of the Roman Republic? Genesis begins at the beginning of the world; even starting at 4,000 B.C., that's a lot of freakin' history to cover, let alone literature.

Of course, the people behind this effort don't want to actually teach literature and history; they want to teach the BYE-bull, because Jesus wants them to.

[Solly Mack]

19. Of course they don't

wire your kids and expose them...I would.
..but then I'm not a very nice person :)

[in_cog_ni_to]

32. I love the way you think.

:evilgrin:

:hi:

[POAS]

25. So I guess they will include

writings by various Roman and Greek authors as well. Surely those, and many others, influenced the writings and mythologies of the day and must have influenced the biblical authors as well!

[Solly Mack]

30. Not likely

but it does seem to me they are trying to cover their butts with the "era" attached

[RiverStone]

20. More craziness from GA.

Just posted this today, I'm sure you will see the connection... :crazy:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=369745&mesg_id=369745

BTW, I grew up in GA. I miss the southern cookin, fireflies, and thunderstorms - but NOT the Bible Belt wingnut wacko mentality.
Damn, I left the GA heat 25 years ago and this fundie stuff is still going on!

[tsuki]

21. Are they going to teach it as literature, or the literal word of God?

However they teach it, somebody is going to yowl, fuss, fight and scratch. It will be interesting to watch.

[GreenZoneLT]

22. Supposedly as literature

I predict school systems putting this WAY on the back burner. If they teach it as literature, the fundie parents are going to raise unholy hell, and if they teach it as the word of God, the ACLU's going to sue their ass off. Lose-lose.

It's probably going to be one of those elective classes that is only available in alternate leap years, and will be taught in a disused lavatory in the school basement, behind a door marked "Beware of the Leopard."

Just re-read "Hitchhiker's Guide" yesterday; does it show?

[tsuki]

33. "Hitchhiker's Guide," eh? I was thinking damned if they do, damned if

they don't. Another issue for "values" voters.

[POAS]

23. So when they say:

"Literature and History of the Old Testament Era, and Literature and History of the New Testament Era" are they planning on teaching them in the original Hebrew or teach one of the many and varied translations and revisions? Will they also teach the writings that were deliberately omitted from what we, today, call "The Bible" such as the writings of Phillip and Bartholomew and discuss why those are omitted? Parhaps they weren't up to the literary standards of the day!

[Perky]

24. If this is Bible as Literature rather than religious instruction and if it is voluntary

I do not have a problem with it.


It is important literature and has has a profiund impact... I jsust don't think the line can be drawn broadly enough to make this pass a scotus sniff test.

[gatorboy]

34. "Mr's Beasley! I forgot my Bible for class...

"Will my Torah do?"