Is "Truth" Enough?

[Solly Mack]

Poll question: Is "Truth" Enough?

The truth about the Bush administration comes out. Every single step along the way is exposed. Every pair of lips a lie passed through is outed. Everything. Nothing left uncovered. From A-Z, every action and all the whys and the hows come out. All the crimes of all the guilty are made known.

Is that enough?

Or is accountability demanded as well?

Would the truth alone help to prevent such things from ever happening again?

Would truth coupled with consequences help to keep another wanna-be tyrant from ever happening again?

[B Calm]

1. Truth and Accountability or history will repeat itself

[Solly Mack]

2. I voted that way as well

I don't think accountability is a 100% guarantee against another criminal President from taking office again but I think it affords the best chance of preventing it.

The truth can be known and still denied - and a conviction is up for spin by those wishing to downplay what it means...but if government fears accountability because it is a given, the corrupt might think twice. Accountability is a weapon we have against a corrupt government. We should use it.

[Rock_Garden]

3. You can call me Pollyanna, but....

I do think that the lag time between truth and accountability is closing, as the years go by. We could argue that truth always has consequences. But instead of learning about them decades later from historians, we're closing the gap, thank goodness. I'm glad that we still live in a relatively free country.

[Solly Mack]

4. Goodness. Have you been called a Pollyanna before

for saying that?

I won't call you a Pollyanna for that.

Not exactly sure I agree that the lag time between truth and accountability is closing though.

I'll have to give all that some thought and I will - because it is a possible trend that bears examining.(some of the truth getting out there quicker - not convinced the entire truth ever does)

[Rock_Garden]

5. And I will give some thought to the group dynamics of dust bunnies.

:hi:

[Solly Mack]

6. I'm pretty sure it's the same thing

:)

[Rock_Garden]

8. After a bit of reflection....

I'm sure that Dick Cheney is cloning my dust bunnies. That explains everything.

[Solly Mack]

11. lol! That's bad - but I get the same feeling at times

what he's not cloning, he's converting

and even if it's not him actually, it's what he represents

Dusting doesn't help..they come back


Sometimes mine rumble...one group of dust bunnies against the other

One day while pondering what life would be like as a dolphin (and I do ponder such things), I saw my hallway dust bunnies pull a Trojan horse and invade the couch dust bunnies. I didn't intervene though. Seemed wrong to...

[Rock_Garden]

14. Wisely, you stayed out of the sectarian violence of the dust bunnies.

The current administration could learn a lot from you.

[Solly Mack]

22. To keep you posted: I've been thinking (be nice)

Currently I'm trying to decide if the faster spreading of information closes the lag between truth and accountability.

Certainly it seems it would.

But then disinformation can travel just as quickly and just as widespread.

In the age of these hi-speeds tubes both the truth and the lie can 'round the corner neck and neck

Lies mitigate truth. Odd statement but it seems to be true. (snicker)

Someone tells a truth and a lie comes along to lessen the intent of the truth told.

I'm basically stuck on why people would rather believe the lies..and I know all the arguments but I'm going through them again in my ponderings anyway

I digress a lot along the way :)

[Rock_Garden]

27. Well, isn't digression supposed to be good for the soul (ha)?

Since you're being semi-serious, I'll say that as a culture the media plays to the lowest common denominator. And if not the lowest, then the median, in some ways.

Just for example, the day that Libby got convicted I mentioned it to several people at work. Only two people even knew what I was talking about. Just for fun, I asked every single person in the company (about 55) what they thought about the verdict. Only two people had even heard of the case. Well, three more people said, "Oh, maybe I've heard of him. And who is he?" And the weird part is that most of them have college educations. I still can't believe it.

Gauging by that, maybe most people wouldn't know the truth from a lie.

[Solly Mack]

28. The media claims it only gives the people what they want

This is said with a straight face and without a hint of admission that they, the media, can influence what people think they want...

I really hate thinking it is a case of who has the better PR...'cause well, the media does.

So life is a dramedy and during commercial breaks people pay attention to other things...for 30 and 60 seconds at a time.

You're not a Pollyanna and if you are, you're not alone. My angst, and it is angst, is in knowing that in spite of it all, I still have hope. It really chaps my bippy too. I've got absolutely nothing to base my hope on - yet it persist.

Damn dust bunnies.

[Rock_Garden]

29. It chaps your....bippy?

You're a good egg, Solly Mack.

[Swamp Rat]

7. The "Truth" has taken a beating

[Solly Mack]

9. Yeah it has....

Everybody's got a truth and some folks got ugly ones.

[Swamp Rat]

10. HAHAHAHA!!!! ... "The Rotten Eggs Episode 2"

:rofl: ... the S&M Alberto Gonzales! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Solly Mack]

12. I've got 4 more episodes I need to post but haven't converted them

to the proper format yet...been lazy.

And I keep changing them dammit.

I am rather proud of my Torture Czar egg...I think it resembles him :)

LOL

[Swamp Rat]

13. I love the wild eyes of Ari Rotten Egg Fleischer too.

I can't wait to see the rest! :D

[Solly Mack]

15. Aww, Thanks, Swamp!!! Means a lot coming from you

I'll get busy this weekend and get them up on YouTube.

[Gap Spanner]

16. Truth without Consequences is like Toast without Jam - Forgettable

...and we can't afford to forget the vile things that have been done by this administration.

Yes, the truth is vital, so much so that in some cases a prosecutor will agree to let the perp go free just to get at at the truth. But those are small time cases. What W & CO. have done is so vile, so incredibly obscene that we cannot simply say, 'Thanks for the info, have a nice day.'

There are some crimes for which the Truth should not 'set you free.'


=====
Forget the 3 R's, it's time for the 3 I's:

Indict
Impeach
Imprison

[Solly Mack]

17. Good post!

I agree

[newyawker99]

25. Hi Gap Spanner!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[cyclezealot]

18. we like to believe the truth will set you free.

[Solly Mack]

20. My Mom prevented that belief from ever taking hold a long time ago

Telling the truth just meant you didn't get into additional trouble for lying.

[H2O Man]

19. Interesting question.

I would suggest that there is no such thing as Truth without consequence, just as there can be no Lies without eventual accountability.

We remember that Plato said, "Who then are the true philosophers? Those who are lovers of the vision of Truth." Using that as a starting point, let's examine one of humanity's great lovers of Truth, Gandhi.

"There should be truth in thought, truth in speech, and truth in action," Gandhi said. "Devotion to truth is the sole justification of our existence. It is impossible for us to realize perfect truth so long as we are imprisoned in this mortal frame."

Regarding the relationship between his search for Truth and politics, Gandhi noted, "To see the universal and all-pervading Spirit of Truth face to face, one must be able to love the meanest of creation as oneself. And a man who aspires after that cannot afford to keep out of any field of life. That is why my devotion to Truth has drawn me into the field of politics; and I can say without the slightest hesitation, and yet in all humility, that those who say that religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion means."

The same path to Truth can be taken by "non-believers" as by a Gandhi disciple. Truth is the sun that causes all good things to grow. In the case of the current criminal administration, we can see that the neoconservatives are a fungus or form of mold, that grows in the darkness of men's hearts. The Truth shines a light that eventually wipes out that mold, although this does not mean that there will not have been damage done by the degenerate growth of lies. But the Truth regenerates life.

Chief Paul Waterman said that we own our lies, and although we may think that we have left them somewhere in the distant past, our lies are always closer to us than our shadow. There is a consequence for lying.

Gandhi often said, "Truth is God." That is a wonderful statement, which is significantly different from "God is Truth."

The denial of Truth is sickness. Sickness has consequences.

[Solly Mack]

21. I've been asking myself that question for years

Once, a long time ago, I was in tears explaining why I "needed" the truth. That I wanted the truth in all things. That I wanted to know the truth about every lie we've ever been told as people. I wanted the truth about history and not just what people believed to be true, or some historian said was true, and I had no desire to go on faith. I wanted the truth - unvarnished and without commentary.

I was talking with my Mom and she had such a look of pity on her face.

She told me I would be forever lonely in my quest for the truth, as most people want anything but that kind of truth.

So I ask....don't have the answer yet. Maybe I do and just don't like what it is. :)

Even still - I wouldn't kill a mockingbird

I'm hopeless

[genie_weenie]

23. Sadly, there will be no accountability. The Bad sleep well.

Leading members of the Regime, will retire with their free front of the line health care for life, security details, and $50,000 speaking engagements...

[Solly Mack]

24. Yes. That is a source of my pain right there

Gnaws at me even

[Beelzebud]

26. For the 2 that voted no consequences - With cowards like you, who needs republicans...

MUST....KEEP......POWDER....DRY....AT......ALL....COSTS