Dem Rep David Obey calls anti-war Dems "Idiot Liberals" in exasperation.

[cyberpj]

MSNBC showing YouTube clip now although I've searched and can't find it.

[porphyrian]

1. Ha! He's just ended his career, but we're the idiots? - n/t

[Name removed]

18. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[goddess40]

89. I don't think so - I'd vote for Dave any day

and I will next time he's up for election. He said he doesn't plan on retiring until we get decent health care for all.

[CrazyOrangeCat]

2. fuckwit.

[MADem]

19. See post 18. NT

[CrazyOrangeCat]

43. Okay. Guess I stand corrected . . . to a degree.

But I don't get to live in Mass. I live in a state where a lot of people think that liberals are baby-killers and troop morale-destroyers . . . the list goes on and on, I assure you.

I expect our leaders to not use the term "liberal" in a derogatory sense. For any reason.

[MADem]

46. He's actually a liberal, himself. He doesn't want the rest of us to look bad. NT

[Matariki]

72. Am I missing something?

apart from MADem telling someone to delete their post - what info are you standing corrected by? I don't get this thread.

[CrazyOrangeCat]

84. Don't even waste your time with this worthless thread . . .

. . . I wish I'd never even looked at it.

(Think I'll go play with my niece's LiteBrite.;))

[rurallib]

3. I don't know Obey well. I thought he is anti-bushwar?

I have a hard enough time keeping up with my own guy. But i thought Obey was one of the anti-bushwar leaders?

[cyberpj]

5. I believe they say he was exasperated with the Dems who want more than he feels they can get. nt

[lyonn]

52. Exasperation, exactly, that's is what he seemed to be expressing

when I watched the video. Obey is very anti war. He felt he was being accused of not doing enough to stop the war, etc. There are rules in congress he can't do away with just because his party is in control. He was not about to keep the guys in Iraq now without what they needed to survive. That is what I got from it. Yes, he wants Out of there.

Again, I heard pure frustration with the battle he is fighting in congress, the repubs and some in his party.

[Sammy Pepys]

6. He is....

...but they were challenging him on legislation that he is the chief sponsor of and got swallowed up in basic legislative process that Obey is obviously going to be an expert on.

[Mass]

8. He is anti-war. Listen to the video. He is trying to explain what is in the supplemental

and what is needed to people who are not ready to listen and try to understand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS4wHMCc57k

[MADem]

13. He is--the stupid people are the ones who insult him without knowing his position. NT

[me b zola]

27. Sorry, I've had enough slurs slung at us from people who are supposed to represent us

[MADem]

60. People who run around ignorantly bothering legislators who are PLAINLY on our side

are NOT helping "us"--they make "us" look like a bunch of dunces who don't even know which politicians support ending the war before they go shooting off their mouths.

Beating up on Obey, who is a liberal, is just stupid. It would be like a bunch of idiots calling the late Paul Wellstone a babykiller for HIS war vote. These people are uninformed nitwits.

[lyonn]

73. I didn't take Obey's comments as being against her

He was ranting on how difficult it was to get any progress going to stop this war through congress and against the presidential powers.

[MADem]

80. I agree with that assessment. NT

[tridim]

70. MSNBC's clip isn't helping

They never mention that he's anti-war, they just use it to "prove" that the Dems are supposedly in disarray.

[Sammy Pepys]

4. Let's be real, here...

You've REALLY got to know what you're talking about if you're going to put a Member of Congress on the spot while he's walking down the hall. Those folks got some very basic facts wrong, and pretty much asked for that kind of response. :-(

[cyberpj]

7. I agree. And too many get baited for YouTube purposes too. It's too bad but

anytime they speak now they can be filmed. I doubt he knew he was being filmed by the look of it.

[lyonn]

54. Hey, whatever, that was some honesty /frustration going on

Obey ain't anti Democrat. Sheesh

[LSK]

9. Why am I thinking about Pelosi-planegate or Kerrys botched joke

There has to be more to it.

[Mass]

10. I am sure MSNBC is happy to show that to discredit those who disagree with Bush, including Obey.

The video itself is worth watching to, though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS4wHMCc57k

[Sammy Pepys]

12. Have you watched the video?

I think Obey actually comes across very well on explaining the Dem plan for ending the war.

Frankly, it's those folks who got him in the hall that look worse to me, and unfrotunately the media will probably use that as a broad brush....but I hope it brings Obey's efforts some much needed publicity.

[MADem]

I agree, and there's clearly a difference between smart liberals and idiot liberals

Just as there are reasonable conservatives, like Chuck Hagel, and batshit crazy conservatives, like Ann Coulter.

In the long run, he's probably done the liberal movement a service, by demonstrating that liberals do distinguish between positions and efforts that make sense and those that are just attention-seeking behavior to no useful effect. Some of us are actually PRACTICAL and TACTICAL, not windmill-tilting disruptors.

[Mass]

24. I have no problem with Obey. I did not see what MSNBC showed though.

Depending on how they edited that, it could come one side or the other.

[lyonn]

58. Where were the cameras when cheney told Leahy to

"go f**ck himself on the floor of the Senate?

[MADem]

81. Unfortunately, they were off. The exchange happened during "Picture Day"

when Snarlin'Dick gets his photo taken with the Senate. They weren't in session at the time, so CSPAN wasn't there.

Pity, that.

[Cameron27]

14. No, actually they had someone (can't remember his name)

describing what Obey's legislation was and why he was angry. I thought they did good this time.

[VP505]

51. They already

have run it, and yes it did look bad for Mr Obey.

[MADem]

11. It's in the video section here on DU

And people who are making idiotic, uninformed sarcastic comments about Obey's stance on the war need to get themselves a clue.

Obey is a liberal who knows how to count noses. When you do not have the votes, you do not have the votes.

But hey, way easier to shit on an ally with a keyboard than do a little research on the fellow's stances first.

Sheesh....

[myrna minx]

16. Exactly! Obey is one of the good guys, folks.

[myrna minx]

15. Rep David Obey is one of the outspoken good guys.

I need to know more about this. Just check his record, he is wholly anti-war.

[LSK]

17. a rough transcript...

We're trying to use the supplemental to end the war but you cant end the war if your going against the supplemental. Its time that these idiot liberals understand that. Theres a hell of a difference between defunding the troops and ending the war. Im not going to deny body armor, Im not going to deny funding for veterans hospitals so you can help people who have medical problems, thats what you do if you go against that bill.

There should be enough money in the regular defense bill.

No there isnt.

[lyonn]

59. That's a good rough transcript of what he said

He wants to end the war but can't cut funds for those already fighting the battle and in recovery from injuries, etc. He said there wasn't enough money to cover the needs he described. I have no idea what is in that budget but apparently he does.

[magellan]

68. I don't know why he's referring to the "idiot liberals"

...when it's the idiot conservatives who constantly misrepresent things by saying the Dems want to defund the troops. The "idiot liberals" want the war ended NOW.

[lyonn]

75. I believe the idiot liberals he was referring to were the ones

that were having a problem with understanding the obstacles in the Dems way to stopping the war. Dems in congress are not all on the same page. That is what it looks like he was frustrated with. Dems do have a hard time agreeing.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

20. The usual double-talk and CYA from a hack politician.

"There's not enough money in the defense budget.."

"Bullshit" doesn't even begin to cover the scope of that baldfaced lie.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/04/AR2006020401179.html

Similarly, the budget will contain an increase of nearly 5 percent in the Pentagon's funding for next year, defense officials said. The $439.3 billion includes $84.2 billion for weapons systems, an 8 percent increase in weapons spending. The military budget reflects a subtle shift in Pentagon spending priorities from existing weapons toward research and development.

In addition, the White House is continuing a pattern of leaving substantial military expenditures out of the budget; last week, the Pentagon announced it intends to ask Congress for an additional $120 billion -- not contained in the new spending plan -- to help pay for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq this year and next.

[MADem]

22. Why don't you do a little research on Rep. Obey before you shoot off your mouth? NT

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

26. So, you think the Pentagon doesn't have enough dough?

[LSK]

29. the pentagon gets plenty of dough, but they spend it stupidly

Think of the pentagon as a little boy sent to the store to buy his mother some milk but instead buys candy bars and eats them and returns with no milk. Well the milk still has to be purchased, doesnt it?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. And, Obey and the other sellouts want to give the little boys at the Pentagon more money.

Brilliant!!

[LSK]

36. did you read the bill????

http://www.rules.house.gov/110/text/110th_hjres20.pdf

[Beelzebud]

37. Here's the thing. Obey is right, but his approach to them was SHIT.

People would understand his position if he calmly explained it instead of calling them names, cursing, and yelling at them...

[LSK]

40. well when you get badgered by people who dont do the research

and dont know whats going on, you get pissed off.

Kinda like this subthread.

http://appropriations.house.gov/News/pr_070129.shtml

WASHINGTON - Today, Dave Obey (D-WI), Chairman of the House Appropriations Committee, filed a $463.5 billion measure to complete work on last year’s appropriations bills. He co-wrote the measure with Robert C. Byrd (D-WV), Chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee. The House is expected to consider the measure on Wednesday.

Last year, the Republican leadership passed a budget so unrealistic they were unable to complete work on 9 of the 11 annual appropriations bills.

In December, Byrd and Obey announced a plan to wrap up the bills in a joint funding resolution. Under the measure filed today, most programs will continue to be funded at the 2006 levels adjusted for increased pay costs. Limited adjustments were made within the confines of the Republican budget resolution to meet critical needs including: meeting new needs in Veterans Healthcare and Defense Health programs; making significant investments in public housing; increasing funding for scientific research; and increasing the Labor, Health and Education bill to keep up with inflation, a promise the Republican leadership had made but never delivered.

The recent explosion in earmarks has left Congress unable to ensure the integrity of the system and public confidence is at an all time low. Obey and Byrd decided to place a moratorium on the practice until the new, reformed process is fully in place.

The joint resolution is free of earmarks. Title I, Section 112 states:

Any language specifying an earmark in a committee report or statement of managers accompanying an appropriations Act for fiscal year 2006 shall have no legal effect with respect to funds appropriated by this division.

This decision does not come without pain. Many worthwhile earmarks were cut including the Boys and Girls Clubs, the Points of Light Foundation, and America’s Promise. Hopefully, whatever short term pain this causes will be more than made up for in the long run.

“I don’t expect people to love this proposal, I don’t love this proposal, and we probably have made some wrong choices,” said Obey. “But in contrast to last year’s Congress, which decided to duck these choices, at least we have made them in order to bring last year’s issues to a conclusion so we can turn the page and deal with next year’s priorities.”

[Beelzebud]

41. So what is the intelligent way to handle it? Calmly explain yourself, or fly off the handle?

Even though he's right, he comes off looking like an asshole. Period.

[LSK]

44. youve never been aggrevated before?

:shrug:

[Beelzebud]

45. I'm not a public figure that represents hundreds of thousands of people.

[LSK]

47. he wasnt exactly at an official campaign stop

[Beelzebud]

50. No he was just in a public building doing the business of the people.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

21. I watched the video and unfortunately, as they would MSNBC cut to the most contentious

part of it and unfortunately Obey has bought into the wrongwing propaganda by denouncing the questioners as idiot Liberals. He used Liberal in a derogatory term not once but twice.

He really does try to explain his bill as being the solution to end the war and couldn't get it across. From what I heard from Pelosi yesterday, it does end the war but down the line. Obey was treating it as if it ended the war the moment it would be enacted. Unfortunately this is all moot when Shrub has veto power and there at this time would never be a 2/3 vote to override it.

[LSK]

23. ok, my question, why would the bill rendering the war illegal pass?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

25. Frigging MSNBC is showing it again! Now with Alex Witless....

[librechik]

32. goes right along with the dems in disarray talking point

they'll always be digging for this kind of stuff, bastards

[Greybnk48]

28. For once we see someone who doesn't talk like a politician

and he's under attack?? David Obey is above reproach as far as I'm concerned. He IS one of the good guys. Period.

[Beelzebud]

30. If only those fucking liberals would quit screwing things up.

/me pukes.

He might be right, but he acts like a fucking asshole, and does the right-wing proud by using "liberal" as a smear.

[MADem]

31. Well, he is a proud liberal. And an intelligent one.

As differentiated from the idiot ones who make the rest of us look bad.

[Beelzebud]

34. Or maybe they were misinformed. He could have handled himself better.

They approached him calmly, and his response was to start calling them names and yelling at them...

Couldn't he have explained his position in a rational way, or is this how intelligent people communicate now?

[MADem]

42. If they didn't know who he was, and what his committee chairmanship is, and what his

stance was, they had NO BUSINESS approaching him in that fashion. They're the stupid ones, here. And stupid, uniformed "idiot liberals" do NOT help our cause. They're the small minority of lockstep, mindless DOLTS that the South Park shitheads make fun of, and they make the rest of us, who read, who research, and who actually understand both the issues and the players look bad.

How would you like to try to go about your daily grind with a bunch of shitheads following you around and chanting outside your workspace? How long before that might bug you a bit?

[Sammy Pepys]

48. The more I think about it...

...the more that really pisses me off. He's the friggin' CHAIR of the House Approps Committee! By virtue of his position it should've been clear that he would be the sponsor of the Supp if they knew anything about appropriations. They really showed their ass on that one, and with the current approps work going on now at hellfire pace I'm not surprised he lit into them...if they had even looked at a copy of the bill they probably would've seen that he was the sponsor. "Uh, are you going to vote for the bill you're sponsporing?" Just ridiculous.

I wasn't so ticked off about it at first, but it's really chapping my hide now.

[Beelzebud]

49. Sorry the shitheads that have lost children in this war bother you so much.

Maybe they're just lost because they're loved ones are dead and they really don't know what else to do with themselves.

Maybe they are just looking for answers.

Maybe they weren't blessed with all your wisdom, and don't know everything.

Personally I don't give a shit what South Park makes fun of, and if you knew their target audience it shouldn't bother you either.

[MADem]

53. You couldn't have come up with a cheaper (and more inaccurate) shot

if you tried.

First, you don't know shit about me, my family, or how many funerals of Iraq War dead I've attended.

But hey, way to go. You've done yourself proud. A few things are apparent. You not only haven't bothered to find out who those people were and why they were bothering the one guy on the Hill who was unequivocally on their side, you defend their stupidity (they clearly didn't bother to even read the supplemental) by attacking me.

What a prince!!!

The unidentified woman told Obey she was the mother of a Marine who had been deployed to Iraq who was experiencing post-traumatic stress disorder and wasn’t receiving adequate treatment from military hospitals. She then asked why Obey was not cutting off funding for the war.

Obey responded that the Washington Post has been running numerous stories on the inadequacies of military hospitals and that Congress is holding hearings on the topic, adding that the supplemental spending bill includes extra money for military healthcare.

A few moments later he grew angry and began attacking liberal groups for failing to understand how the supplemental bill, of which he is a sponsor, would affect the war.

“The liberal groups are jumping around without knowing what the hell is in the bill,” he bellowed. “You don’t have to cut off funds for an activity that doesn’t exist.”

“The language we have in the resolution ends the authority for the war,” he added. “It makes it illegal to proceed with the war. You don’t have to de-fund something if the war doesn’t exist.”

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/obey-berates-woman-over-war-funding-later-apologizes-2007-03-09.html

[Beelzebud]

55. Just using your words...

"How would you like to try to go about your daily grind with a bunch of shitheads following you around and chanting outside your workspace? How long before that might bug you a bit?"

And who would those "shitheads" be?

[MADem]

57. Shitheads who don't realize that you are on their side. Those shitheads. NT

[LSK]

35. the right wing will smear regardless of what he says - fuck them

We should not dance around because of what the right wing will say about something because they would just make up stuff anyways.

[MADem]

61. You got that right. If we have to moderate ourselves out of FEAR of those shits, we've lost.

Fuck them, indeed!!!!

[lyonn]

67. Did you watch the whole video?

At first he was considerate, trying to explain why he was doing what he was doing in a hallway conversation with someone he didn't know. He didn't need to try to explain to this person his position. He seemed to care, no matter who the person was asking the question. He cared or he would have done the usual blather most politicians use on people that are not influential. He was tell someone who had an injured or lost (?) son in this war. But when he was constantly accused of doing the wrong thing he explained and finally got exasperated/frustrated. Obey cares, not a politician running for president. He is representing the masses.

[Cameron27]

69. He took a hell of a lot more time than

most, listening and explaining...in an impromptu meeting...about something that should have already been known. Then once that person finally seemed to understand, up pops someone else asking why he doesn't filibuster???

I'll cut him some slack on this. He's one of the good guys.

[LSK]

38. Democrats File Joint Funding Resolution for FY 2007

WASHINGTON - Today, Dave Obey (D-WI), Chairman of the House Appropriations Committee, filed a $463.5 billion measure to complete work on last year’s appropriations bills. He co-wrote the measure with Robert C. Byrd (D-WV), Chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee. The House is expected to consider the measure on Wednesday.

Last year, the Republican leadership passed a budget so unrealistic they were unable to complete work on 9 of the 11 annual appropriations bills.

In December, Byrd and Obey announced a plan to wrap up the bills in a joint funding resolution. Under the measure filed today, most programs will continue to be funded at the 2006 levels adjusted for increased pay costs. Limited adjustments were made within the confines of the Republican budget resolution to meet critical needs including: meeting new needs in Veterans Healthcare and Defense Health programs; making significant investments in public housing; increasing funding for scientific research; and increasing the Labor, Health and Education bill to keep up with inflation, a promise the Republican leadership had made but never delivered.

The recent explosion in earmarks has left Congress unable to ensure the integrity of the system and public confidence is at an all time low. Obey and Byrd decided to place a moratorium on the practice until the new, reformed process is fully in place.

The joint resolution is free of earmarks. Title I, Section 112 states:

Any language specifying an earmark in a committee report or statement of managers accompanying an appropriations Act for fiscal year 2006 shall have no legal effect with respect to funds appropriated by this division.

This decision does not come without pain. Many worthwhile earmarks were cut including the Boys and Girls Clubs, the Points of Light Foundation, and America’s Promise. Hopefully, whatever short term pain this causes will be more than made up for in the long run.

“I don’t expect people to love this proposal, I don’t love this proposal, and we probably have made some wrong choices,” said Obey. “But in contrast to last year’s Congress, which decided to duck these choices, at least we have made them in order to bring last year’s issues to a conclusion so we can turn the page and deal with next year’s priorities.”

http://appropriations.house.gov/News/pr_070129.shtml

[Xenotime]

39. What a fucking asshole! Who does he think he is?

You are the idiot, jerk.

[winter999]

56. WHOA, WHOA, WHOA!!! Fighting on the video, fighting here!

Can't we all just get along?

*runs for cover!*

[yurbud]

62. It's in the video forum (LINK)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x18941

[dogday]

63. This From AfterDowningStreet.Org

Congressman Obey Says "Idiot Liberals" Need to Support War Money


House Appropriations Chair David Obey (Dem., Wisc.) ran into woman in the hallway in Washington recently and ended up yelling at her and her friends, accusing them of "smoking something that's not legal" if they disagreed with him, and denouncing "idiot liberals."

The woman, Tina Richards, introduced herself to Obey as the mother of a Marine about to depart for his third tour of Iraq, and as someone who has tried to communicate with Obey but received no response. Then she…

Well, watch the video yourself. It may be depressing, but it's certainly entertaining (just like network television): http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/19392

Obey claims in this video that the only way to end the war is to fund it, because

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/19393#comment-84232


I don't care what anyone else says, the Mother of a soldier doing his third term in Iraq deserves a hell of a lot respect, more than Obey was willing to give

[Beelzebud]

64. Ah, she's probably just a dope smoking hippie idiot liberal.

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

Thanks Obey. Thanks for acting like an immature brat that uses right-wing memes when things aren't going your way.

[dogday]

65. Who has tried numerous times to contact him

Imagine that, a constituent who wanted representation....:sarcasm:

[MADem]

86. She isn't from his district, OR his state. And maybe people would be

more willing to listen if that crowd didn't pull their bullshit disruptive nonsense in the offices of working antiwar legislators.

Why doesn't the woman go see a few Republicans, and try to change their hearts?


Oh wait....that would be a HARD thing to do. Better to go beat up Murtha, Obey, and Pelosi.

Gimme a break.

[dogday]

88. What crowd is that?

Oh right Obey calls the Mother of a soldier on his third term to Iraq a liberal... My son has only been once, and I am a flaming liberal....

Why don't you give all of us with family in Iraq a break?

[leftchick]

85. exactly

he was swearing, rude and boorish to her. He yelled at her while she quietly asked him questions. Apparently he isn't a liberal like some suggest, he seems to find liberals pot smoking idiots. What an absolutely shameful appearance for a congressional rep.

Disgusting :puke:

[yurbud]

66. THE SILVER LINING: if he is this exasperated, public pressure is working

[tinfoilinfor2005]

71. Of course everyone is frustrated.

Young men and women are dying every day and each and every one of them have families and friends who are beyond frustration. Legislators trying to find a way out of this horrible mess and hitting a brick wall time after time...more frustration. Arguments here; who is doing enough, who is not, who is saying the wrong thing or the right thing.

DEEP BREATH.

Work The Problem. Write the angry letters to the people who are holding up the progress. Not to each other.

Peace.

[HardRocker05]

74. yeah, it's 'smart' dems like him that got us into the iraq war and lost the 2004 election. nt

[walldude]

76. Well after watching the clip while Obey may be correct he

was kind of an asshole. He was only talking to the woman for 60 seconds before he used the term "idiot liberals". Calling people idiots because they don't have the time to research and read every bill that's put before Congress is not conducive to gaining momentum.

Ok after a bit of research I have found that number one, Obey lied. He claimed in the video that he did not vote for the authorization to go to war. Here is his less than stellar voting record and in it you can see he voted yes on the Iraqi war resolution: EDIT: My mistake he did not vote for the war resolution, the one I was looking at was to go after the 9/11 perpetrators. He did not lie. Sorry folks my bad!

http://votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=H4320103

He's a moderate that leans slightly left. Here is my biggest issue relating to what he had to say to this woman. He berates "idiot liberals" for not knowing what is in the bill he is proposing. Yet in Oct of 2001, he felt the need to vote YES on the Patriot Act. A bill that was rushed through so fast that according to most Congressmen and Senators, they didn't have a chance to read it. Now how can he stand there and call people idiots for not knowing what is in a bill when he voted yes on a bill that he never had a chance to read in full? A bill that fundamentally dismantled many of our civil liberties. Smells like a bit of hypocrisy to me.

[lyonn]

78. Checked your site and saw where on 10-10-02 he voted no

Am I missing something?

Under Military Issues, H J Res 114, the Iraq war issue he noted no.

[walldude]

79. Scroll down to National Security Issues

10/24/01 U.S.A Patriot Act vote: Yea

Now he did vote against re-authorization in 05' but the whole point is he's berating someone for not knowing what is in a bill and he originally voted yea on a bill that he didn't even know what was in it.

He also seems to be a pro-life voter and he voted for the marriage amendment to make marriage between a man and a woman. There are a number of other votes on his record that IMHO are questionable.

[walldude]

82. Oops my mistake, the vote was authorization to go after

the 9/11 criminals.. thanks! Goes to show though calling someone an idiot because they can't keep all these bills straight is self defeating.

[bobbolink]

77. Good. I'm glad to know where I'm not wanted.

Way to get lots more votes.

Shit.

:mad:

[deutsey]

83. I'm about as anti-war as you can get and I sympathize with Obey

Our grassroots groups really need to become more politically savvy.

[MADem]

87. To put it kindly.....bless their hearts...!!!! NT

[nosmokes]

90. well, i'm in the mom's camp. splain to me how to keep voting to give

them money is gonna end this war any sooner? me, i don't give a flying fuck if it doesn't have the votes to pass. if someone like obey doesn't have the balls to stand up vote nay then it damn sure won't ever have the votes to pass. i have an idea. let's talk about it some more! hell it ain't congress that's over there bleeding and dying. it ain't even their kids other than webb.so yeah, talk some more. have some tea. a cocktail party is good for talking. meals meals are conducive to talking. of course, you poor schlubs hafta pay for your own now, huh? not nearly as attractive an option i guess even though you're almost all millionaires. but y'all definitely keep on talking while the
GIs are bleeding and dying and being traumatized for this idiotic fucking war y'all allowed bush to get us into because ya din't do your jobs in the first goddamn place.

that's your cue for more excuses about your vote hillary.