Three cheers for Obey!

[SoCalDem]

I see his "outburst" as the only TRUE expression of sentiment about the war..

Shame on the rest who still speak in platitudinous, parsed group-speak.

It's way past time for REAL talk to occur.

Obey responded in an honest and straightforward manner, and I don't think he was a BIT disrespectful.

I believe that protesters SHOULD protest, but they also need to be reminded that the mess we are in will take a LOT more senators/congresspeople to actually accomplish what we all want.

A narrow margin will NOT override a veto, and we all need to stress this. In '08, we need to push the FACT that we need a VETO-proof margin to really do the "people's work".

it does no good to put one's head on the chopping block in a losing proposition, and unfortunately we are still not quite back to a place where republican blowhards can be fully disarmed.

MORE legislators need to go "Obey" and start talking like ordinary people .

[FiveGoodMen]

1. Keepin' their powder dry

:banghead:

[Donnachaidh]

2. activists need to do their HOMEWORK and go after the BAD GUYS

Obey is NOT the ones stopping the votes to get out of the war.

It's the SENATE that is filibustering everything trying to be put through. The S-E-N-A-T-E. You know, JOE LIEBERMAN, ARLEN SPECTOR, Whatsisname MConnell -- THOSE are the BAD guys.

Obey has worked for YEARS to bring oversight BACK to the Congress. And I don't blame him for getting upset. He had people parking in his office, stopping him in the hallways.

Filming him BEHIND his back! Now THAT was sooooooo courageous an act, wasn't it? :sarcasm:

The obvious lack of RESEARCH on the part of all the parties involved with this little video action is STUNNING.


David Obey DESERVES a PUBLIC APOLOGY.

[bullimiami]

5. Id like to know where the hell the so called gang of 14 members who are still there

have hidden themselves now that the republican minority feels its ok to block virtually everything with a cloture vote.

the gang of 14 were not moderates, they were republican operatives, half of them democrat sellouts, or they would still be demanding up/down votes on all but the most serious of issues.

[blondeatlast]

9. My thinking too. The smart move is to confront moderate and swing state Republicans.

They won't like having to answer to the increasing horde of anti-Iraq war constituents. If enough Rs can be persuaded, getting the Dem leadership to get our own to toe the line is a cakewalk.

I appreciate her intentions, but she has a lot to learn about how things get accomplished.

[liberaldemocrat7]

36. Pressure McConnell's contributors to get Mc not to use the filibuster.

and the chimp not to use the veto. Go to www.opensecrets.org and look up McConnell.

[LoZoccolo]

3. I second that. The idiot liberals are the ones who mistake their right to free speech...

...with the priviledge of knowing what they are talking about.

[sandnsea]

4. The number is 67

"Braude: So what it sounds like what you're saying is, quite overtly, is that nothing is going to happen until '08.

Kerry: I am saying it overtly. This President will veto whatever it is we do, but we have to have the fight and we have to have to do everything in our power to be able to change the attitude of people in the country and the debate, hopefully, sharpens the arguments and gives people a sense of what's really at stake."

We have to have the fight, but we do need to remember that the magic number is 67. We either need a Dem President or 67 in the Senate to have the full power to end this war. In the meantime, it's about changing the minds that need to be changed, not the ones already on our side.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=273x127017

[LSK]

6. BINGO!!!! VOTES IN THE SENATE, VOTES IN THE SENATE!!!

[bullimiami]

7. he cant veto everything. he will run out of money.

the democrats can control that with a simple majority.

[LSK]

11. you thought Walter Reed was bad???

Now you want to pull that funding too?

[bullimiami]

19. nope. you want to fund schools. send him a school bill.

you want to fund the v.a? send him a v.a. funding bill.

im so sick of the omnibus spending bills, earmarks, these other giant bills with bullshit slipped in nobody could ever read or does read.
enough already.

[Mass]

17. 67 in the senate and 2/3 of the House needed to overcome a veto.

(too lazy to do the math for the House).

We have to do this fight in both house.

[sandnsea]

27. Okay, Veto Proof

And in the meantime, yes, we need to continue the fight.

[tandot]

32. "...it's about changing the minds that need to be changed, not the ones already on our side"

Thanks, sandnsea.

Why not go after the people on the other side of the issue? Why harass guys who are already on our side?

[karlrschneider]

8. He was a bit rude but for chrissakes look at how frustrated he must be!

He wants to stop the madness as much as any of us DUers do yet he still doesn't have the support necessary.
If only he DID have a 'magic wand'....

[SoCalDem]

10. I don't see what he did, as rude.

he was more or less "ambushed", and filmed without his permission. he had a moment of honest anger and frustration.

She was angry because her own son will be going there this month, she's upset, agnry, scared..and y'know what? so is HE.

they had an ARGUMENT... MILLIONS of people have arguments every day, but somehow in congress that "normal feat" has been turned into a weird verbal kabuki dance..

Obey had a right to be "snappish"..and so did the protester..

no one said any "bad words"..no one called anyone any "bad names"..no tits were shown..

All's well that ends well..

No apologies necessary.. just a pat on the back for being HUMAN..

[karlrschneider]

12. Okay maybe not rude but perhaps a bit indelicate? Undiplomatic?

Not that I blame him but it's the sort of minor indiscretion the wingnuts will make hay out of.

[Donnachaidh]

15. the wingnuts were given the ammo -- is THAT appropriate?

The man had people parking their behinds in his office. He had people stopping him in the hallways.

And sometime during ALL of this he was working to get a bill passed to STOP the surge, and the war.

But here comes a group that literally videotapes him behind his back, with not one but TWO people asking him questions about his bill? And it was obvious they hadn't READ the bill, because they didn't even know he was the originator of the bill.

I think he was perfectly right to be annoyed. YOU try to work in that pressure-cooker.

And the videotaping without his knowledge? What is this -- MTV's Punked? It was soo mature and so courageous of them to do -- NOT.

[karlrschneider]

20. I'm on your side and on his side too. I'm just sayin', the tiniest lapse in

complete subservient groveling to a constituent gives the wingnuts something to bitch about. Hell, if I'd been in his shoes, my briefcase would have a large head-sized dent in it...which of course demonstrates why "in my wildest dreams" is a WAY too optimistic assessment of my chances of ever being elected to anything. :D

[Donnachaidh]

25. the sad part? This mother of a vet was USED to get this video

Read the transcript.

She probably DID write to Obey, and she probably DID need and want help with her son. But someone in this group probably talked her into going to his office unannounced, and then fed her questions to ask him regarding the war. So they could get Obey's reaction on tape.

The problem was - Mr. Obey has his facts straight and has no problem being upfront and open about his bills. He has a handle not only on this war, but he seems to have his good memory of other bills he's worked on. So he wasn't going to be *punked* on the facts.

What I find unconscionable is uploading a tape of his comments taken in SECRET, and then using that to get a nationwide spot on hardball. This was a setup, to get nationwide coverage for the *group*. It's a ploy I'd expect from Drudge. NOT from someone who calls themselves a Democrat.

Someone at grassroots needs to publicly apologize.

[karlrschneider]

28. Yes. I don't question the lady's motive or passion but it was a stealth attack

and something I would expect from the RW. It's the difference between 'hardball' and 'sleazeball.'

[Democrat 4 Ever]

26. They were demanding a filibuster from Obey. He had to teach them

that the filibuster was only in the Senate. Protest, complain, but do you damn homework before heading into the Halls of Congress. It dilutes your message if you don't have your facts down cold and you don't take on the correct enemy. Obey isn't the enemy.

Obey showed passion and concern - beats the hell out of the cold fish of the reichwing any day. If they HAD tried that with a Republic they would have been arrested ON THE SPOT. Period.

We are all frustrated and fed up with the war but going after one of the good guys is just another example of shooting a good cause in the foot. Waylay, debate and film the reichwing neocon fascists excusing away this war, not someone who is trying to solve the problems.

I can't imagine what this woman is going through. I wish her and her son all the best. May this horrible war end soon and he returns to his family safe and sound. I admire her passion, concern, worry, pissed-off-ness, just direct it at the correct target.

[proud2BlibKansan]

47. It's not rude to call someone an idiot?

It's not rude to accuse someone of smoking something illegal?

You and I have a completely different understanding of rude.

Tina (the mom who Obey called an idiot) is a very good friend and has basically given up her life to end the war. Obey should have thanked her for her dedication and calmly explained his bill to her. Instead, he called her and liberals "idiots".

Chris Matthews was more courteous to her than this fucking US congressman. Obey should be embarrassed that he was so rude to a military mom.

[Beelzebud]

13. Yeah it was perfectly fine to suggest they smoke dope, and call them idiots.

[karlrschneider]

21. I know several dope smoking Democratic idiots.

You probably do too.

[Cha]

23. I don't any.

I know it's an insult.

[poiuytsister]

14. We cheeseheads are proud of our boy, Dave!

He really is one of the good ones. It's too bad she didn't go after someone more deserving of our ire.

[Cha]

33. IT's too bad obey

didn't show respect for a mother of one of bush's cannon fodder.

[Cameron27]

16. I watched the video and he just looked

exasperated and considering the questions, I don't blame him. They went after a good guy today.

[Malikshah]

18. Liberals as an epithet is wrong.

Plain and simple. No excuses.

Obey should know better. He may be forgiven by me, but he better step up and stop that shit.

[Cha]

34. obey is trying to perpetuate that myth

that Liberal is a bad name. Shame on him for that and insulting a mother of a Soldier sent by the bushits to die, or be maimed physically or mentally or both, in Iraq.

[spanone]

22. I think the Obey 'incident' just showed how frustrated all liberals are.

Like Obey says, 'we don't have the votes'. He's trying to craft legislature that the congress will actually sign on to.

We won the battle (election) but they are still winning the war, so to speak.

[HardRocker05]

24. and since dems couldn't stop IWR there was no point in voting against it. sarcasm. nt

[karlrschneider]

29. I think you're misremembering the mood of the country back then.

And that the bogus intel hadn't yet been exposed (will it all ever be?)...

[tandot]

30. Thanks. Why did they pester guys who are on our side?

Why not go after the guys who are at fault for the whole mess?

He is apparently extremely frustrated about not being able to stop that f#$%ing war. People who have the energy and time to go to Capitol Hill should pester people who are pro-war.

[Greybnk48]

31. Thanks for posting this SoCalDem

I couldn't agree more. All we do is bitch that the pols don't talk straight, and when one does he's excoriated by some. It's ridiculous BS.

[Cha]

35. Fuck Fuck Hooray.

[Gregorian]

37. The suffering is much greater than we know.

I also saw a union.

He would never have spent eight minutes if there hadn't been a union. An intersection of concerns.

When they say support the troops, I almost never get it. But this is a case of supporting the troops. Get this over now!

And it's far more than troops. It's Iraqis. They have the worst of this deal.


I won't judge Obey. Chances are, if I knew him I wouldn't like him. It's not about him. Let's hold our noses and work together, as silly as that sounds.

It's the noble and humane thing to do.

[Jonathan50]

38. I'm surprised that a veteran politician would so easily lose his temper.

One of the first things a politician learns is to keep his temper, losing almost always causes him grief one way or another.

I don't condone personal slurs in general, they are counterproductive and only serve to inflame emotions.

[sandnsea]

39. The Horror!!! He's Human!

There's nothing wrong with losing ones temper. In many instances, it's the NORMAL response. The name calling was unfortunate, but I doubt anybody has ever lived on the planet and not done it. Self-righteous judgmentalness is just as ugly as name-calling, in my book, it's worse.

[Jonathan50]

41. "idiot liberals" does not carrry a touch of self righteous judgmentalism?

Like I said, keeping one's temper in check is a very basic lesson for a politician.

If I lost my temper at work and called my boss an idiot I would be hitting the streets very quickly.

[sandnsea]

43. Your choice to live that way

I've called more than one boss an idiot, never gotten fired for it. Bosses actually like people who will challenge them when they're about to do something incredibly stupid.

But if you like living in your rigid realm of perfectionism, that's up to you.

Most people get mad on occasion. Lighten up. You'll live longer.

[Jonathan50]

45. I get mad sometimes.

But I'm not a veteran politician.

Obey has given the "left wing media" a nice clip to use as ammunition against "idiot liberals" who the "left wing media" will paint as *all* liberals.

[SoCalDem]

42. Exactly.. there would be a lot of dis-inherited kids if Mom & Dad

thought the kids really DID "hate" them..

Things said in anger to people we respect and sometimes "love", is a very human experience..

[Jonathan50]

48. Are you implying that the anti war folks are children?

Maybe if it was *your* child who was going to be sent back to Iraq you might feel a little differently.

[SoCalDem]

49. not at all.. Just that people often say things they don't really mean

:)

[bleedingheart]

40. but calling people "idiot liberals" may hurt the Democrats

when they need us "idiot liberals" to walk, donate, and work the polls.

It was us "idiots" who gave them the majority in the Senate and the House...it was our work and our constant reminder of what a mess this war is ...

[Laurier]

44. I don't think it was intended that way, though.

What I got from the clip is that he was - eventually - frustrated by the fact that fellow liberals were attacking him for no good reason after he had explained his record, his views and his beliefs, and the "idiot liberals" comment was meant in the sense of "sheesh, it's bad enough that I have to deal with idiot republicans who don't know anything about anything, but I shouldn't have to deal with idiot liberals who don't understand the obvious that they should understand because we're smarter than that".

(Okay, I didn't word that all that well, but I think the point is clear)

I don't think he was at all dissing liberals in general. I think he was exasperated with those who were being rather deliberately obtuse and who were obviously not knowledgeable about the facts or about his record or even about how government works. I can't say that I blame him for losing patience with them in the circumstances.

Just my $0.02

[moondust]

46. Reality vs. dreamers.

Thank you, Rep. Obey. I, too, am weary of pundits and dreamers who refuse to recognize the reality of the situation. It's so much easier to sit back and call somebody spineless and divided than it is to come up with the votes in Congress needed to make something happen.

[OneBlueSky]

50. yeah, let's just play the "business as usual" game while more people die . . .

in an illegal war . . .

don't have enough votes, Mr. Obey? . . . then work your ass off and GET 'EM! . . .

and if you can't, at least have the decency to introduce a Bill of Impeachment to maybe slow the carnage down a bit . . . and begin the process of stopping this rogue executive from turning our country into a fascist corporate state . . .

[FyurFly]

51. Some folks just don't understand

How politics work. Our good reps and Senators are working hard, they cannot however magically stop the war.

[Luminous Animal]

52. You have got to be kidding

He treated that woman like shit. Sure he might be frustrated but...

He treated that woman like shit. He shouted her down; he belittled her. He gave her, a taxpayer and a citizen and a person who pays his salary, no respect.

Do you think that Obey, a millionaire, treats lobbyists, representatives of millionaires this way. No fucking way.

[w4rma]

53. Ignorant "liberals" tick me off too. Imho, if you're going to go to the trouble of talking directly

to a Congressman you should, at the very least, do enough research to know what a filibuster is and who is cosponsoring the bill(s) you plan to talk about.

Spend a couple hours on research before wasting the time of one of the good guys who have been trying to end this failure since before it started. (And even helped end the Vietnam failure, to boot.)

If you're a liberal and you don't do your research and then you go pull this BS, you're an idiot liberal.