Prepare your family for the hard times ahead.

[SoCalDem]

No one is immune from the hard landing ahead.
Even with a democratic congress, we will still have almost 2 years left of this mal-adminstration to screw things up even more than they have.

As a boomer, I have lived through many recessions, and they are no fun..

The mini-recession (was it really even a real recession) in the post-Clinton /early Bush years was NOTHING compared to what may be looming on the horizon.

Many people are in way over their heads and a few missed paychecks can send them right onto the streets.

We all think that our family budget is carved in stone and there's no room for "adjustments", but in most cases that's not entirely true.



Easy stuff first:

1. Learn to cook:

......a) Even with higher grocery prices, it's still cheaper (and better for you ) to cook , than to order in, nuke a frozen dinner, or use prepared mixes
......b) grow some fresh veggies if you have some yard space
......c) stock up on bargains at the store when you see them
......d) shop with a list, and stick to it
......e) buy store brands whenever possible
......f) use coupons if they are for things you already buy
......g) Cook several meals at the same time and package your own "frozen dinners" for the rest of the week


2. GET RID OF YOUR CREDIT CARDS

.......a) If you cannot pay them off, please consider filing bankruptcy (if you qualify, and can do it). The deck is stacked against consumers, and it's only going to get worse, folks. The sooner you get "out from under", the sooner you can start rebuilding your financial stability .
........b) Keep ONE credit card with the lowest interest rate possible, and use it once a month (to keep it active)..and pay it in full BEFORE the due date..(If you need to rent a car or reserve a hotel room, you will need a credit card to avoid paying a large cash deposit.
.........c) If your bank offers it, use the online bill-paying service. This eliminates the cost of writing/mailing checks, and it provides a detailed record of what (and where) you are spending your money. It saves on postage too and gas..and time.
........d) Ask your bank for a checking account that comes with over-draft protection (ours has $1k) so if you ever screw up, you will not be charged a bunch of bank fees...or keep a savings account where you have your checking, so you could transfer (online) between accounts.
.......e) Buy a shredder and USE IT. Shred all papers that have any identifying information on them.
.......f) Pay your bills EARLY and pay extra if you can.

3. Examine your "extras".

.......a) Do you really "need" that cell phone package? Are your calls on it, the yak-yak killing-time calls or is it truly for "emergencies" like people tell themselves? Could you get by with a prepaid cheapo-phone that "lives in the car", and a cheaper "frill-free" land line for the yak-yak calls? (People managed this way for over 100 years)
.......b) Cut the cable bill by going to the bare-bones package and have friends tape the HBO stuff for you.
.......c) Take your lunch to work. Even $4-5 a day ends up being close to a Benjamin a month.
.......d) Send kids to school with a lunch too, It's better for them than what they get in the cafeteria. let them make their own, and they might accept it more.
........e) Shop the sales at upscale department stores, and you can often find better clothing/accessories than at Walmart/KMart/Target..and there is no stigma for shopping at resale shops/flea markets/yard sales.
.......f) PAY OFF YOUR VEHICLES (if you can) and figure out exactly what those extra cars are costing you. You have to consider insurance, gasoline, repairs, tires, finance charges.. the whole enchilada
.......g) Take a hard look at the secondary income job (usually the wife's). What are you actually getting to KEEP from that job, after the daycare costs, lunches at work, extra car expenses, extra costs associated with the job, and any income tax implications. Now figure out if it's actually worth the trouble. remember that you only get to spend what's left over, and often that part-time job ends up costing the family money in the long run.
......h) Start saying "We cannot afford that" to your kids. SHOW them the family budget and make them a part of the financial team.
......i) Cancel magazine subscriptions.. (Most probably don't even get read..or when family asks what you want for your birthday/xmas/etc , let THEM subscribe to your favorite magazine as your gift
.....j) When you eat out, go early and use coupons for meals if you get them

4. Maintain your appliances, cars & equipment. An annual "check-up" is cheaper than a complete breakdown.

5. Network and barter casually

.....a) Everyone has a special skill, so trade services within your group. (be careful how you do this, because the IRS is "interested" in bartering:).)..
......b) When you buy something pricey, show them cash and ask for a cash discount
......c) Shop in your community, with privately owned businesses, if you can. Often they deliver free and are eager to please you
......d) Ask your friends for referrals for things you need done (if you cannot do them yourself).
......e) If you have young kids, set up an "exchange" with other families..for clothes & toys.
......f) Set up or join a babysitting co-op (It's easy, fun and it's FREE babysitting (as in no money paid..just your time)

6. Consider "shared-housing" . If you are an empty-nester with a big house, you could "rent a room" to a single who cannot afford the high cost of an apartment..or you could incorporate a parent/grandparent into your home (cue fingernails on a chalkboard here)..but if it's the difference between losing your home or keeping it, you may need to consider this

7. Energy use can be cut down

....a) Obviously the new lightbulbs help, but there are other things you can do.
.....b) Do laundry & dishes at off-peak times
.....c) Close off registers in unused rooms
.....d) Set the turn-off timers on tvs incase you fall asleep
....e) Replace washers in faucets so they don't drip
.....f) Plan your shopping /errands in a circular trip.
.....g) Make sure your car has a locking gas cap




I've droned on long enough, but let me tell you, that when a REAL recession hits, and hits hard, many families will be hit hard. Most young folks have never experienced wage-freezes or 15% mortgage loans .. But when WE endured those things, there were no killer health care premiums or $25K cars or all the distractions we have today.

Start now and if it doesn't come to pass, you mightr only end up with a savings account & some good habits.. Wait too long, and you might be homeless and broke.

[babylonsister]

1. Recommend, and thanks for taking the time to spell it out. nt

[NNN0LHI]

2. And yes it is true never go grocery shopping when you are hungry

Good post.

Don

[dkofos]

101. or stoned

[NNN0LHI]

203. That too n/t

[Jamastiene]

250. Wow. I thought that rule was only for me.

When I came home with a jar of pickles and ate the whole jar (and it wasn't on the list), my mother told me never to go to the grocery store again when I was hungry. So now my family jokes about it. I thought we were the only ones who used that advice. It's cool finding out we are not the only ones.

[Kerrytravelers]

3. K, R and bookmarked!

[ulysses]

4. another R

We're working on doing more to save here, too.

[Treclo]

232. What a wonderful post!

Thank you! I would like to recommend a few exceptional books that support your post. My trifecta of sound financial advice, if you will.

"Your Money or Your Life", by Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robbins. This book really and truly changed my life, and my relationship with money. I recommend it for anyone trying to get out of debt; who wants to learn the true value of their time as related to spending and earning.

"Surviving Without a Salary- Learning to live the Conserver Lifestyle" by Charles Long. It's not about living without money, but about becoming a true conserver instead of a consumer.

"The Complete Tightwad Gazette", by Amy Dascyzyn. (sp?) The collection of all of her books, (based on 6 years of newsletters), from the self proclaimed blackbelt of frugality. She doesn't just offer tips, but actual systems- and the logic and reasoning behind these systems- for how to live a frugal, joyful life.

Again, thanks so much for the great post! (And BTW, Amy agrees with your assessment of looking hard at the income of a second job in the family, regardless of the sex of the job holder.)

[leftofthedial]

5. great advice

thanks for posting

K&R

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

6. K & R. Coming of age in the 60's and 70's, I endured two significant recessions.

(and I'm not counting GHWB's hiccup).

This "everything must be bigger, newer, shinier" connsumerism is unsustainable and I'm glad to see some no nonsense recommendations for weathering the times ahead.

Great advice. :toast: MKJ

[Monkeyman]

7. K&R

[Pierzin]

8. Good Advice, socaldem.

Everyone needs good habits. Paying off credit cards has to be the #1 on anybodies (Everybodies)list. Our parents and grandparents did not have all this crap that companies use to fleece us everyday. (Cable TV, Internet, Cell Phones, fancy cars, etc). I grew up with my grandparents who came through the Depression. They are gone now, but they would be astonished at how much I pay for cable, and my cell phone plan. (at least i don't have a car, so that's a plus).

[SoCalDem]

9. Yep.. all these "advances" crept up on us

Americans always want ...more...better..faster..shinier

I can still remember when people had irons and toasters FIXED..:)

and had shoes re-soled..

[yellerpup]

44. It isn't easy to find shops that can do these repairs, but it can be done.

And it's worth it. I also buy winter coats (when I need one) at a resale shop. I get much higher quality than I can afford (or choose to afford) at a fraction of department store prices. My best resale deal: Gucci boots with no visible wear for $10. Department store furniture outlets and Salvation Army stores for furniture.

[On the Road]

90. I Got an Ankle-Length Leather Coat for $40

at a thrift store. Had to be $500-1000 new. I was even stopped in the supermarket by another guy who told me how great it looked.

[yellerpup]

109. No fair making my tongue drag the ground!

Congratulations. Good buy! :hi:

[ncrainbowgrrl]

141. I got a blue wool Harve Bernard Dressy coat for $10

As good as new

Got a black Calvin Klein Wool coat that would be ~300 in the stores for 50= and it's warm enough to wear down to about 20 degrees F.

[Art_from_Ark]

309. Speaking of having shoes re-soled...

When I got my first job that paid more than minimum wage, I had to have work boots. Not being able to afford new ones, I got cheapie used ones that were practically falling apart, so I took them in to get them resoled. Standing in line in front of me at the repair shop was a man I could have sworn I had seen on TV, but I couldn't quite place him. Just then, the clerk came from the back room to the counter with a pair of shoes in his hand. "Your shoes have been fixed, Dr. Spock", he said.

Yes, it was THE Dr. Spock. Dr. Benjamin Spock, who had made millions with his child-rearing books, had taken his shoes in to get them repaired at Arkansas Street Shoe Repair, on the run-down side of town.

And I was too flabbergasted to even say Hi to him :banghead:

[SoCalDem]

311. My husband has very narrow feet and we always had to special order

Florsheims for him. Back in the day, they had thick leather soles, and once re-soled, they were like new.. Now we still have to special order, but he's gone in for the comfy loafers with flexible (non replaceable) soles .. But they still cost over $100 a pair... TRY finding inexpensive mens shoes in an A width :eyes:

[Art_from_Ark]

315. Your husband might have been able to wear those boots

They were two sizes too narrow for me. But they were the only things I could afford during the Reagan Recession.

And I'm still using those boots to kick myself for not trying to start a conversation with Dr. Spock. I was interested in Seabrook at the time, and my former girlfriend was good friends with his wife, who was involved with the ERA (we even rode our bicycles out to their house one time, 6 miles of town at the end of a dirt road, but they weren't home at the time). But I just stood there like a dork as he walked out the door of the shop.

[SoCalDem]

316. if you had actually talked to him, you probably would have said something that later,

you would kick yourself over..like

"Live long and prosper"..(Isn't that what he used to say.. I never watched Star Trek :)

A friend of mine met a celeb at a racetrack once.. what did he say..

"Dude, move .. you're in my way".. The guy turned around and my friend about fainted..

It was some music group guy..forget his name now

[Art_from_Ark]

319. Wrong Spock, I'm afraid

The doctor was enough of a celebrity there that only the densest of the dense would have confused him with a pointy-eared Vulcan :D

Besides, I was trying to think "Seabrook, Seabrook" (which was his pet project at the time, I think), and how I was going start a conversation with that theme, but it never came out.

Time to get the old boots out, again...

[SoCalDem]

322. Oh shit.. You're right.. I got the worng Spock

Can you tell I never read DR Spock either? My mother in law sent me books he wrote, but I was too busy raising 3 boys to have much time to read :)

[asjr]

10. Good advice. What frightens me most

is a depression rather than a recession. And I am depressed enough already. One depression in a lifetime is enough for me. I do not want to go through another one. And already I see news of grocery prices going up. We are now raising our corn to feed our autos rather than our stomachs. My DIL has to prop up my body when I get to the checkout lane.

[badgerpup]

11. K & R

Being able...or learning...to sew doesn't hurt, and I'm not referring to quilting.
With a bit of effort and attention to detail you can make clothes that don't have a slip-shod appearance.
They won't have the expensive label for which you're forking over so much of the price of a garment, but if you follow instructions they will probably be of much better quality and last you longer.

This sort of thing is good for kids...clothes that stand up to wear and tear can be handed down- if not in your own family, to community services if they're in good shape.

[SoCalDem]

13. I almost added sewing to the list

but the 'fashion trends' are so quirky, and home ec probably has not been routinely taught for decades ,so probably most people don;t even have the interest these days.

I liked to sew when i was younger, but I cannot see well enough to thread the damned sewing machine needle these days, and I am getting pretty cranky :)...not sure if I could handle "goofs"

[NMDemDist2]

15. maybe not sew clothes, but you can sew curtains, pillows and slipcovers

if that old chair needs a facelift. or sew 'duvet covers' for that ratty old comforter and get several more years use AND give your room a fresh look for very little $$$$

being frugal doesn't mean you have to look that way

edit to add, anyone can sew the straight lines needed for this type stuff, just measure measure iron in the seam and measure again before you get close to the sewing machine

[LiberalEsto]

48. Dye your old towels

I had some yellow bath towels that were in good shape but faded almost white. For the price of a bottle of Rit fabric dye, I ran them through the washer and the towels look like new. You can do the same with sheets.

[Jamastiene]

251. My family used to do that when I was growing up.

Great idea, btw. It does wonders.

[Clark2008]

22. Also, there's little time for clothes-making.

I know after working 40-50 hours a week, I don't have time to create new fashions. I barely have time to patch, repair and darn, which I do.

[yellerpup]

49. Even if I have all the time in the world

I've still never made any garment that didn't make me look like 1) a serf or 2) a cafeteria worker. Sewing takes talent. Also, recycle clothing to homeless shelters, etc.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

42. Get easy thread needles

they are the ones blind people use when they sew. I started using them when I was a kid--the ones I used were my great-grandmother's. I still have some of her thread and beads and other notions that I use when I do sewing projects. And I never worry about goofs! I call my clothes "works of art" and say "Yes, making that seam a little crooked was part of the overall plan, doncha know!"

[SoCalDem]

47. I got a "D" on my home ec apron..

I hemmed it on the wrong side :rofl:.. the teacher said if I ripped it out and re-did it, she'd give me a "C".. I took the "D".

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

55. Comrade!!!

I completely messed up a sewing machine so bad they had to have a repairman come and fix it! I did equally poorly in Home Ec, but have found some wonderful books at the library on how to make clothes without patterns and even without sewing (using fabric glue and stitch witchery bonding tape). Anyway, since I've grown older, I've become bold and have found that I can, indeed, sew -- after a fashion. Wearing the winter coat I made, and a jacket--and my husband is wearing the robe I made for him out of a $5 blanket. Might not look perfect, but he says he can feel the love I put into it every time he puts it on.

[Individualist]

84. You too?

My "apron" was a disaster.

[SoCalDem]

86. and the first time I washed it, it ended up green because

my mother threw in a green shower curtain that faded all over it.. My home ec teacher laughed her head off at my streaky faded, hemmed on the wrong side apron.:)

[bread_and_roses]

200. Hello, Sister! I snuck mine home and bless my mother, she sewed it tor me...

to this day I won't sew a button. We must be of any age....an APRON, for goddess sake! And not even a sensible restaurant kitchen one, but one of those foo-foo little waist things....goddess, I hated "home ec."

[LiberalEsto]

214. I got a D too!

Worst apron in the class. The teacher held it up to show the others what NOT to do.

She knew I'd be a problem when, on the first day of class, I managed to drop a sewing machine on a finger.

However, my daughters enjoyed and appreciated the many Halloween costumes I made when they were little. So Home Ec was not entirely wasted on me.

[wellstone dem]

241. Home ec failures of the world unite

The poor girls of today have no idea of the trauma of staying up all night to hem a skirt and then being told the stitch is wrong and you need to pull it out.

[SoCalDem]

243. Or that DAMNED baked apple we had to make in cooking

Someone always burned theirs and the whole place filled up with the "aroma" of burnt apple :puke:

[KoKo]

276. I too just made it through Home EC ....you wouldn't believe the

"dress" we had to make buying the pattern, choosing the style...and friends were buying Vogue Patterns (the hardest) and turning out an A Project and I chose a Simplicity and made a mess out of it. Friends mother had to help me fix it so I could even get into it...the seams were narrow where the hips were supposed to be and the waist was where my hips were supposed to be. We had to model the dresses...ugh... It was humiliating.

But, through the years I started sewing again and have made great balloon curtains, swags, bedspreads, kids clothes and great tops and slacks. I gave up on making the clothes when the fabric got so expensive that buying the Chinese imports was more economical than my time and effort and cost of supplies...but I loved it. And, I was working full time when I did those projects. I never ever used a Vogue Pattern though...settled on the Butterick and Simplicity.

I even used to make craft projects with a friend and we would sell at Holiday Shows our local YWCA used to have for crafters. I got very good and my Home EC Teacher would have had her mind blown if she knew what all I got into after "hating Home Ec."

The Chinese imports kind of killed the Craft Sewing for profit...and those of us who were making extra income off that had to find other employment. That's one of the reasons I know that our "Trade Deals" have hurt American workers and the lives of females who didn't have professional careers who still wanted to work but do things from their home while raising kids.

No one talks much about the Chinese Imports killing off "pocket money" jobs and taking away the independence of so many crafters...and when I've posted about it on DU the post goes to archives. I guess to some it seems like a concern from "another time."

But, anyway...I'm part of the Home EC Failures Club who somehow overcame my Scarlet Letter...:D

[lapislzi]

321. Home ec loser here

I stressed so much over that skirt that I threw up in class, all over the sewing machine!

[BluePatriot]

67. Basic sewing would be good.

I regret not picking up more from my grandma but my MIL can sew things like curtains at least.

[Hekate]

164. Sadly, sewing doesn't pay for itself any more, due to the cost of fabric...

...if you can find a fabric store not devoted entirely to crafts like quilting.

I have found that shopping deep sales at Macy's pays off for me.

My mom used to sew clothes for me and my brother when we were young, but she didn't work outside the home so she had a better block of time to do it in. And the fabric was a better deal then.

Once I went back to work full time I simply didn't have the energy to devote to sewing clothes, and I think that's true for most.

That said, designer sheets when discounted sufficiently make great yard goods for curtains, bedspreads, and pillows, which are a snap to make.

Hekate

[Manifestor_of_Light]

182. I mentioned sewing because I have lots of time on my hands,

I'm part of the college educated formerly middle class, and unemployed.
I'm calling it "early retirement".

If I hang out with artists, actors and musicians, or I create something, or practice my music, I feel sane and good.

If I try to get a job in the 9-to-5 world, I feel like there is something wrong with me because apparently, despite my extremely square credentials(12 years of college and 3 degrees), I can't get a job.

Then I realize that our society is sick and drives people so hard, the ones that do have jobs, that they don't have time to think, let alone do any crafts or handwork.

Today I auditioned for a part in a play, and when we came in and said hi to the playwrights/producers, my SO said he had been canned from his job last year, and they all said "Yayyyy!!! Now you have free time!!!".

[windbreeze]

233. Isn't that the truth....$$$$$

I went into our little variety store...O M G.....$10 a yard for cotton fabric??? Is this what outsourcing all our manufacturing jobs did for us??? I have a chubby little g.daughter...store bought clothing just doesn't fit her right...soooo, I figured I would sew her an outfit or two....crap...could have bought bigger sizes and shortened them, cheaper...$28 for fabric to get maybe 2 shirts, one pr pants out of...not cheap that sewing...and to think I used to make all our clothing, including dress shirts, formals, and jeans...
windbreeze

[SoCalDem]

249. We used to have a fabric outlet in town.. I LOVED that place

I re-covered 8 dining chairs for about $20.. and I made two gorgeous shower curtains for under $5.

The last time I bought fabric was when I bought "fuzzy" stuff for a kitty hammock.. $6.95 a yard :grr:

[jwirr]

262. I agree, we wanted to make insulated roman shades to help with

heating costs - they cost more to make than to buy.

[haele]

302. I have bought large size clothes at the thrift store

Take them apart and re-sew the good pieces into some pretty nice upscale looking clothes for the kidlet, not that she cares. They end up going to her friends, who appreciate wearing something that looked like it came from the upper levels of Nordstrom's or Macy's. I've done something of the same myself, taking advantage of the fact the "crafty" look that looks pretty decent on me - as well as the sleek 30's retro look. I'm a bit big myself, and I've found I can cobble down men's suit jackets for a stylish professional look for me. A nice thrift store $10 Armani jacket cut down with a plain black or grey pencil skirt (I've got a nice light grey skirt made from $2 thrift store curtains) can look pretty nice.

The nice thing about using thrift store clothes is that you already have the "pattern" cut out for you.

I was also horrible in Home Ec class; but a stint in the SCA learning costuming basics and some background in engineering helped my sewing skills immensely.

Haele

[femrap]

165. I wish I could sew....only because I hate the

fashions of today. And does everything have spandex/lycra in it? I wonder if I have the patience to learn.

Another way to save $ is to take care of the clothes you already have. I wash my clothes in cold water in a perma-press cycle...and then throw in the dryer until they're damp. Stretch them out (my way of 'ironing') and hang up. I don't even dry underwear or socks or towels bone dry. That hot air from the dryer is very hard on fabrics...and increases the electric/gas bill. My clothes last forever and the colors stay bright.

Thanks for posting...it's only a matter of time before the sh*t hits the fan.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

173. Sewing advice

My mom sewed and I inherited FOUR Singer machines -- two Featherweights (the little black ones) and two Slant-O-Matics (1956 with zig zag and cams).

All these machines are all steel and will last forever, and make fab buttonholes with the attachments. I also have boxes of rufflers and other attachments that I need to sell.

My daughter started sewing and made a skirt for her prom dress that had a hoop skirt and a soft bustle. Kinda like making curtains. A black corset was the top.

Learning to sew is very good for individuality. Even buying the material and taking it to a tailor to sew, for more formal stuff, can be affordable.

Sewing can be very relaxing if you don't try to do it all in one sitting. Spread it out over several days. Clothes today have less shape to them and are thus easier and faster to make.

I'm planning on turning my country house into an artists' commune. Musicians welcome too!!!

[KoKo]

280. LOL's....I have used my "ruffler" many times......

It came with an old sewing machine from an aunt from the 1920's. There was also a "piping" attachment and both of them came in handy for making designer type pillows through the years. I loved learning how to use them...made me feel so professional. It was a simple pleasure that would seem laughable to many in the culture we live in today, though.

Learning how to use a "ruffler and piping attachment" would have folks :rofl: But, it was great fun for me. Haven't used them lately and don't think anyone would want them if I passed them down...but I keep them...just in case.

[ozymandius]

176. I like to shop at thrift stores.

It's amazing what people will toss out. I have some shirts that would cost $45 new - but only cost me, on average, three bucks and look as though they've hardly been worn.

[Lefty-Taylor]

254. We do, too.

We got our daughter a cute little dress for a dance for about $2. She looked like a million bucks!

[TygrBright]

202. Maybe not sew new garments...

...unless you have some time to invest and are really committed to it, but DEFINITELY learn to do simple tasks that extend the life of your clothes:

...sewing on buttons. Always clip off those "extras" that come on your new garments and keep them in your sewing box/basket, sorted by light/dark/bright colors. I use glass jars that I save in the kitchen. If you have a garment that just CAN'T be saved/worn again, salvage the buttons. More on that, later.

...bar-tacking pocket corners, reinforcing armholes, etc. Sometimes a little "preventive maintenance" on a garment that is going to see heavy wear can extend its respectable-looking lifespan by quite a lot1

...simple mending like seams, hems, belt loops, etc. As SOON as you notice a rip or frayed or weak spot. Set a few stitches and it will keep a small damage from becoming a garment-destroying mess.

...patching. Buy some sheets and/or rolls of double-side iron on interfacing and learn how to use it to anchor patches. There's a whole art to patching neatly and sometimes even invisibly, working from the inside of the garment, using extra fabric culled from facing, wide seam allowances, etc. Also learn how to sew patches neatly, this is useful for play and hard-working work garments, reinforcing knees, etc.

...if you're feeling ambitious, learn how to replace a zipper. It's not that hard in many garments although sometimes you can't restore the "new" line. You can usually make it look respectable.

...get in the habit of doing the "garment recycle cycle." Buy good quality new garments, best you can afford, not too trendy so you won't feel silly in them a couple of years down the road. As good maintenance and mending finally fails, or an ineradicable stain sets in, but the garment is still usable, put it in the "working in the garden" or the "messy playclothes" pile. Periodically raid this pile to adapt garments: Make shorts out of trousers whose knees are too disgraceful to patch, make shells out of t-shirts by ripping off the sleeves and the neckhole binding, and rolling the fabric under and setting a plain stitch to hold it, etc. Kids need costumes? Here's your pile.

...revive the ragbag! When a garment in the "working in the garden" pile is on its absolutely last legs (can't patch that seat one more time!)deconstruct it. Deconstruct all garments instead of throwing them away. A seam ripper and a fabric scissors will do wonders. Save the best, least-worn bits in one pile to use for patches. Salvage buttons and zippers and save for re-use. Rip off flat-felled and bound long seams intact, they can be braided for rugs or used in the garden to tie up floppy plants or a dozen other things. Cut off cuffs and collars separately, they make the best shoeshine rags and other "small places" utility rags. Pile rags according to light and dark, and separate according to utility. Use, wash, and re-use rags instead of paper towels.

You don't need to be a sewing fanatic to do any of this. It's easy to do while sitting in front of the telly watching reruns of your favorite show (you already know what happened anyway, right?) Invest in one of those lighted magnifiers that stand on the floor or on a table next to you, with a gooseneck, if you (like me) have gotten to the 'rather rip out fingernails than try to thread a needle' stage. Rags are wonderful, rags are great!

Oh, one last tip-- try to buy as much cotton, wool, and linen as possible and avoid too much synthetic, etc. The natural fibers make way better rags!

I buy comparatively few new clothes anymore.

mingily,
Bright

[Treclo]

226. you only forgot one thing in your "life of a garment"...

When your 100% cotton rag finally fails, compost!! :):):)

[TygrBright]

234. Amen!! n/t

[Jamastiene]

252. I don't know what the little doohickeys are called, but they

make a little gadget that looks like a coin with a loop of wire out the end of it. You stick that through the needle (much easier than coercing thread into it) and stick the thread in the doohickey (which has a much bigger "eye" if you will) then pull the doohickey back through the needle to get the needle threaded. I do some small time patches and repairs of my clothes and I'm not much of a sewer, but I do have one of the little doohickeys. I don't know what they are called though. I would imagine a search on sewing accessories would help to find one. I just call it one of my little doohickeys for sewing.

[SoCalDem]

253. Yep.. I don't know what they are really called, but i do use them

It's just a pain to have to always "use" something to do simple tasks :grr:

[juajen]

264. Hmmm, I believe the name you're looking for is "threader"?

N/T

[KoKo]

307. Those things are for "sewing needles," though...not Sewing MACHINE Needles

which are a bitch to get a magnifier or threader into. But, hey....maybe it's worth a try. Creative/Innovative minds can always find a way to do what they are compelled to do. Maybe some DU Sewers have found a way to use the "manual threader" in the Sewing Machine slot. :shrug

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

37. You don't even have to buy patterns

If you have a shirt or pair of slacks you like but that are starting to wear out, carefully cut the threads along the seams. Iron out the pieces and use them as a pattern to make a new garment. Save buttons from old clothes, too--sometimes I've bought a blouse at a yard sale for a quarter not because I could wear the blouse but because I needed buttons that size and shape. Can't get four or five buttons for a quarter otherwise.

[SoCalDem]

43. "Modern" buttons are crappy too.

I "inherited" a coffee can full of buttons circa 1920-1960 from my aunt, and let me tell you ...some of those buttons are works of art :)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

58. I have some mother-of-pearl

buttons on a card from my great-grandmother's shop she had about 100 years ago. I know what you mean about vintage buttons!

[knitter4democracy]

154. Amen to that.

They fall apart, break more easily, and drive me nuts. I have replaced too many buttons on store-bought stuff. Often, they're the entirely wrong size, too. Drives me nuts!

[jwirr]

260. We bought a sewing machine and are buying accesories. My

granddaughter and I are going to a church quilting group to learn how to quilt. I have done it before but have forgotten a lot of things.

[raccoon]

284. Even if you don't sew a whole garment, you can save a lot by mending

your clothes.

[ocd liberal]

12. Our family has been credit card free since 2000!

Great advice! Good job putting it all down there where I can SHOW MY HUSBAND what I've been saying all this time!
k & r!

[SoCalDem]

17. We got rid of our cards in '05, and it's been like a breath of fresh air.

I have all my bills online, and all we pay is:

mortgage
elec
gas
phone (land line)
trash
cable
internet hook up
insurance
water

Those are our ONLY recurring bills, and I set them up to "pay" online and what's left is what we have available for spending.

I "round-off" and pay extra each month, so at some point in the year I have credits in almost all of them, and usually it's in Nov-Dec:)

and if things are ever "tight", I can go in and adjust things so I can even skip a month for bills with a credit balance :)

[Lars39]

301. Good idea, but by letting them have the 'round up',

you might be losing some interest. Any way you could shift the rounded-up amounts to your savings instead? :hi:

[SoCalDem]

303. We save too, but I still like to be "ahead" on my regular bills

It's a psychological thing.. And I don't get "sticker-shock" when we start running the A/C...(Yikes it's running right now:scared:..)

[Lars39]

308. Anything that keeps you in the frugal spirit is worth it. :^)

[NMDemDist2]

14. done, done and doing it

out of debt, own the house/land free and clear, own both cars, have no CC debt and am starting a garden this spring

we're hoping to be able to afford to add some solar power to the roof in the next 18 months too

[Subdivisions]

16. Great post, advice and ideas! K & R

[Speck Tater]

18. Enter a three-year retreat at a remote Buddhist Monastery

When you come out of retreat everything will be all settled down again.
And if it's not, go back for another three-year retreat.

[Hekate]

166. I have been SO tempted by that notion since 2000!

Ommmm -- breathe -- ommmmm
I am calm. There is no George Bush. Chop wood, carry water.
Ommmm
:hi:

Hekate

[jwirr]

263. Just remember that out of sight out of mind does not make *ss go away.

[Hekate]

274. You don't have to tell me that, but I did burn out and needed some rest, so fantasized...

...about going on a retreat for, say, 10 years.

We all need spiritual as well as physical renewal at times, and need to know when to seek it out or we cease to be effective.

However the number of people I run into who think for various reasons that their participation in the world is not required, just amazes me. Some are so-called anarchists who claim they don't want to "feed the beast." Others are spiritual seekers whose choices I do respect, but wish they would respect mine in return.

On the whole, I think most people at DU do what we can.

Hekate

[jwirr]

291. That is for sure. I cannot get away from the pressure because I am

often hurt by some cut to my families needs. But I do understand the need to get away. I just meant to remind you to come back because we need every activist around.

[SoCalDem]

292. Yep.. like when gasoline goes over $3 a gallon and the "talking heads"

don't see a big problem with saying "just drive less"..

If you could barely afford $100 a month for gas for the commute, and all of a sudden it's $300, the family budget's blown to smithereens, and most people cannot afford to quit work because they cannot get there, and often van/carpooling's not an option..

[vssmith]

209. Took longer than three years to get out of the Great Depression

Sorry--I don't mean to be so pessimistic.

[Clark2008]

19. Most working families do all this now - at least mine does -

and we're still barely making it.

Other than the credit cards - which we're trying to pay down (and which aren't nearly as high as the average American) - we're doing OK. I don't want to file for bankruptcy - EVER. I think that's VERY poor advice from you, btw. It will ruin any and all loans you may NEED (for home repairs, disasters, health care, etc.) for the next TEN years - not seven anymore.

Try consumer credit counseling before filing for bankruptcy. Talk to your creditors and see if they can reduce the interest rates and/or get rid of the yearly fees. Some will do it if you ask. Also, you can cancel a card without it being paid in full. That way you're only paying it down - you can't use it anymore.

[NMDemDist2]

20. unfortunately a consumer credit counsler will give your credit as big a

hit as bankrupcty almost. it may drop off faster but your credit score will still take a huge hit

[shireen]

28. not necessarily

i went thru CCC for 5 years. But after I got out of it, my FICO scores soared. They've come down slightly recently due to some unexpected expenses charged to a CC, but it's still high.

Just make sure you go to a reputable CCC; must be a non-profit, check the terms of the program, and talk to a counselor before committing to it. In my case, they negotiated lower APRs. With one card, I even got a nice check in the mail after I paid it off -- it was all the interest on the card while I was enrolled with CCC. A nice surprise, since the counselor did not tell me he had negotiated that deal for me. :) (www.consumercredit.com was wonderful, highly recommend them!)

[SoCalDem]

23. Agreed, bankruptcy is the "nuclear option", but I have seen what

drowning in debt can do to someone. My best friend was darned near suicidal, and there was NO way she could have ever paid off what she owed.

Lots of rich people use OPM all the time, and file for bankruptcy as often as they can , but somehow a stigma is attached to "common people" who desperately need to file and struggle for years, only to end up losing it all anyway.

And after a bankru[tcy, the best plan for people is to NOT use credit...for a LONG time..(even though she was immediately FLOODED with offers to loan her money again :grr:..)

[Madspirit]

91. What sucks

My girlfriend and I got into credit card trouble, overextending ourselves by massive amounts. We have since cut up our credit cards and are trying to pay off the debts. Everyone tells us to file bankruptcy and I totally support that right for people. It, on occasion, even saves lives. My girlfriend, however, feels she isn't at that point yet and would like to try to pay these debts we incurred. She feels they are our responsibility and unless it gets to the point our family's security is threatened she will not file bankruptcy.

We have two friends who have filed bankruptcy, TWICE each.

We, who are trying to pay off our debts get constant harassment from the companies. They call my girlfriend at work, they call us. Once the SOBs even called a neighbor to find out when we are home. I guess they used a cross directory. It's unconscionable the level of harassment we have put up with BECAUSE WE ARE TRYING TO PAY THEM INSTEAD OF FILING BANKRUPTCY.

Our friends who had no qualms about filing...TWICE EACH...have gotten more credit cards, wallet fulls. They are wooed constantly by credit card companies and they both drive new cars. (We drive a 19 year old Volvo.)

This is what I don't understand. Why they harass us who are trying to pay them and woo the people who totally blew off their debts.

Lee

[SoCalDem]

93. Why? .. Because they CAN.

Part of the BK filing process is the cease & desist rule. Once a person has filed, they can no longer call them.

They will continue to harrass and phone as long as they can legally do it (and sometimes illegally)

Your friends are in for trouble too, since the laws have changed. They may find themselves unable to file again.

When my friend went through it, she had the good sense to shred all "new" offers of credit after she filed.

I would advise you two, to get some legal advice about the harrassment to see if they are breaking the law, and your options.

Time has a way of slipping away, and if you are young and are late on your payments, your credit may already be suffering. A clean start with responsible bill payment after the fact for some years ahead, might be a more viable solution..

[Madspirit]

105. Friends have already done it

...and are driving shiny new cars. They aren't getting ready to file for the second time. They have already successfully filed. It's a done deal. ...and the companies love them. They have plenty of credit cards, bought new cars, etc. We are trying to pay the companies and yet it's us they don't love.
Lee

[eridani]

208. Do you know what credit card companies call people who pay off their cards every month?

Deadbeats! No, I'm not kidding.

[shimmergal]

237. Been there, done that with the harassment...

You're right--it's awful.

But there _are_ some steps you can take to decrease it. Check into state laws--in some states, I think, they're not allowed to call you at work.

As for phone harassment at home, just don't answer the phone. Work out some code with friends and family so that they "flag" their calls with a pattern of rings. Then don't answer any calls that don't match the code. This works better than caller ID because of the "unknown sender" message that pops up before so many calls, and may actually be someone you want to talk to.

If you see someone lurking outside your house/apartment and suspect they're waiting to harass you in person, or to serve papers, there's nothing wrong with calling the police. Even if they have proof of their so-called legitimacy in being there, nobody likes an unexpected confrontation with an officer of the law.

And I _don't_ recommend this, but a sleazy bill collector once admitted to me that if any targets threatened him with violence, he'd leave them alone after that. Collection agencies and their agents are in business too, after all. Very few would think it's worth their life to collect on one account. Only, you can get into trouble by even just threatening someone, so I have to say don't do it. The other ideas above might help some. Good luck. If it's any consolation, you're much better people than your creditors are!

[Madspirit]

246. Texas

As much as people often complain about my state, Texas, we are very debtor friendly. My state was founded by people escaping debt. Companies hate us for this.

...and yes, the one who actually called my neighbor...I threatened to make a woman suit out of him. I threatened to get him, his family and his little dog too. It was all bravado. I am not a violent person. I was just pissed. They never bothered us again.
Lee

[JanusAscending]

103. Are you "up to date" on the new bankruptcy laws?

I am on the verge, and was wondering if you know what the total amnt. is that you need to owe to be qualified??? Also, would they take my home (paid for)if I were to file? I am a 68 yr.young widow, living on my Soc. Security benefits. No other income as I am also partially disabled. Had to surrender my van that was purchased new, and paid on for 5 yrs. I'm not sure if I have enough debt to be qualified to file. I'd appreciate any answers you can give me, as I am sinking and up to my nose !!! Basically I keep praying to win the lottery, just enough to pay off all my bills, but so far that hasn't happened!!

[SoCalDem]

110. Here's a website that might help./

http://www.findlaw.com/01topics/03bankruptcy/index.html


My friend filed in '03 and I knwo the rules have changed, but a recent article in the paper said that most people are still able to file chapter 7 (that's how bad of shape many people are in)

Riverside County CA..

Apparently there;'s a 45 minute "interview" that has to take place before they determine whether you have to go for the "mandatory counseling, and apparently most counsellors just end up shooting the breeze since after a few minutes, they Know this person is too far gone for the counselling ..and they get approved for chapter 7.. but laws vary from state to state..

[spooky3]

114. have you looked into the possibility of a reverse mortgage?

If you plan to stay in your home for at least 5 years (to justify the upfront fees they take out of your home's value) it may be a good option for you. The mortgage holder pays you a certain amount every month, and you do not pay it back. When you pass on, your heirs can sell the house and will get less $ after the mortgage holder gets its share, but it does provide tax free income to you during the rest of your life.

On edit, also, there is a concern that if you move (e.g., to go into an apartment or retirement home) repayment is due. I don't know all the details of reverse mortgages, but I am sure they are available on the web.

[JanusAscending]

199. Yes, I have.

The problem is I own a double wide mobile home, that is on leased property. No banks will touch it at this time. There was some legislation last year that was passed by the house, but never heard if it got to the Senate. It was a bill allowing banks to finance mobile homes, and give home equity loans as well as reverse mortgages. Right now they can only be financed through a Finance Co., much like financing a car. This made it harder for people to buy them. I wish there were some way to find out if the bill ever became law. Thanks for your input. I really appreciate my DU family's concern!!:hi:

[spooky3]

224. Hi, I am sorry to hear that. I hope the law will change soon enough

to help you. Would Barney Frank's office be the one to ask about it?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ to you. :hi:

[shimmergal]

239. They _can't_ attach Social Security income.

Except for student loan debts and for child support. If that's all the income you have, you probably qualify for the Chapter 7 filing. I don't know how safe your house is--most states have "homestead" examptions, but they're limited to a certain amount, and sometimes you have to have filed a paper in advance to get it. A few states, like Florida, all an exemption of almost any amount on your home (that's why O.J. Simpson moved there) but most places, any home that appraises for the local "average" value or less will qualify. You need to check out the laws in your state.

Good luck!

[SoCalDem]

240. And especially in a real estate downturn, the LAST thing

creditors want is a house...if they can work out terms, they will ususally do it. My friend had even gotten a foreclosure notice, and the bankruptcy saved her house.. Thw laws probably vary by state, but people should not just "do nothing" until it's too late..

The worst that could happen is for someone to say you don;t qualify, but it sounds like this case qualifies/

[Joe Chi Minh]

227. I was once told by a financial expert that if you could see a bulb lighting up above the head of

everyone who was heavily in debt, you'd be very surprised at the people concerned. Of course, monied people use loans to invest for profit. With businesses they call it leverage, don't they?

"Lots of rich people use OPM all the time, and file for bankruptcy as often as they can , but somehow a stigma is attached to 'common people' who desperately need to file and struggle for years, only to end up losing it all anyway."

That reminds me of the way in which our trash newspapers in the UK, all corporatist rags, have regular campaigns demonising so-called "welfare scroungers" and the ones who "work a flanker", moonlighting for often, doubtless, a much needed bit of extra money.

Yet in the UK, the rich are permitted to hire lawyers to look for tax loop-holes, to avoid taxation by using tax havens, and to go bankrupt to the tune of hundreds of millions, maybe be billions for all I know; then after a few years set up another company. I don't know what the situation is now, but for a long time, crooks would set up one company after another, buying stock without paying, selling it, then going bankrupt, all income being virtually net profit.

All the money of the rich is made on the backs of the honest, hard-working citizens of our respective countries. Ironically, I believe it was Adam Smith, the father of economics, although actually a moral philospopher, and who the far-right have had the shameless temerity to claim to be their "guru", who explicitly stated that evident truth, as he, at least, was aware that everything depended on the existence of society, and consequently its "sine qua non" of sympathy between people, for one another.

Smith even went so far as to say that the purpose of government is to defend the rich from the poor, and "People of the same trade seldom meet together even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public or some contrivance to raise prices."

It was why he warned in the direst tones against allowing businessmen in government, i.e. their self-interest was too narrow, and very much tended to be hostile to the common weal. Chance would be fine thing, today! We'd probably be able to count our representatives on one hand.

[mass.man]

35. bankruptcy

Agreed. Bankruptcy should be a total last resort. Aside from the fact that you will not have access to credit, why should you be able to just walk away from the bills that you have rung up? Better option, suck it up, get a second job and devote that income to paying down your balance in large chunks every month.

[gollygee]

45. I've never declared bankruptcy and I have no need to

but I don't have any sympathy for the big bankers who will lose out if someone can't pay their debts.

Watch this movie (which I learned about here at DU) if you have the time:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279

[halobeam]

158. Wow

Some people "just walk away from the bills that they 'rung up'" because they CAN'T work enough to pay it off.. many bankruptcies occur because of medical bills.


Read up on who the majority is, that claim bankruptcy and see it's because of medical bills or because they became too sick to work to pay the debt they owed.



I know there are some people and companies that file and start over again and on and on goes the cycle, but this is not the majority. Many people DO use bankruptcy as a last resort...why would you think otherwise? Because of the ones who abuse the system?

Your view is parallel to those who view welfare as a hand out and feel those people should also get multiple jobs. Here again, some people abuse the system, (and they are the ones who create "thinkers" like you, who think the worst of those enduring this), and that they could do things another way.

You sound cold with a very narrow view and quite frankly, judgmental of those for whom this system was set up to PROTECT! That is why bankruptcy was set up to do in the first place...to PROTECT people.

[fight4my3sons]

220. Thank you for saying this..

We are in the middle of bankruptcy right now. We did go to credit counseling and set up a debt management plan. 2 weeks before our first payment my husband got fired from his job. It was due to an accounting mistake. He was basically railroaded out of his job and they looked for an excuse to fire him. He got a full time job the next day, but it pays half of what he was making. We have three young children (ages 4 and under). There is no way we can afford day care, so I stay home with them. We have no family up here. My husband is looking for another job that pays more. We had no choice but to file for bankruptcy. The collectors were calling literally every 1/2 hour. We barely have enough to pay our rent and feed our children. We never would have done this if we were not in dire circumstances. Comments like the one made above are hurtful and unnecessary.

[Joe Chi Minh]

229. I thank my lucky stars I'm living in Scotland, as I owe a lot of money to credit card

companies.

Although, in theory I might be working now, I have been forced to retire because of poor health, but in Scotland You can't file for bankruptcy, but have to wait to be sued by a creditor.

For a while I was hounded by phone calls, but then went ex-directory. Of course they know our number just the same, but I think it would have been obtained illegally, so they can't push it. Our accommodation is owned by my step-son, and thanks to a Scottish law passed at the instigation of the former, Scottish Socialist Party leader, Tommy Sheridan, all our furniture, fixtures and fittings, mostly owned by my wife anyway, are safe from the bailiffs. The only asset I possess that could be taken is an old limo, though apparently they tend not to bother with them. Which may be for practical reasons, but it's still nice they don't do it from malice.

My advisor at the Citizen's Advice Bureau told me not to send them any repayment plan or pay them anything, as it would simply give them false, i.e. completely unrealistic, hopes. Which, of course, is the truth. After innumerable threats of prosecution from lawyers working for the debt-collecting companies who now own the debts, I'm still waiting, though a few years have elapsed.

If bankrupted, I would still be allowed a bank account and up to £150 credit. In principle, I would have someone oversee may affairs and specify how much I could afford and must pay back each week/month, though our income is so limited I doubt if it would be considered worthwhile.

They danged Socialists! They must have been jealous of our freedoms.

[kineneb]

314. we finished ch. 7

Hubby is disabled and on dialysis. Before that, he had been unemployed for several years, and too ill to work. I am now his full-time caregiver. There is no way we would ever be able to pay off the credit cards. So we filed for Ch. 7 bankruptcy.

You can't get blood from a stone, and you can't get money from people living in near poverty ($14K/yr). We qualify for the free food give-away. There is no "sucking it up" left here. Kindly get a clue.

[DemReadingDU]

21. good tips for all

I remember the late 70's. I was married with 2 toddlers, in my late-20's. We had only 1 car that my husband took to work. If I needed the car, I first had to wake up & dress the kids, and we all took dad to work, who had to be there by 7:30am (and we lived 30 minutes from his job)! At 4pm, we picked him up. My kids thought McDonalds was a treat because we very rarely ate out (maybe once a month). We went to the library every week and stocked up with armfuls of books that we read many times every day. Sometimes we had to roll up our loose change (dimes, quarters, nickles) to buy groceries. Unfortunately, not many people in their 20's today have ever experienced anything like this. They will have a hard time coping with a recession.

[SoCalDem]

25. Same here. We had ONE car, and my husband had to be at work at 8AM

MY job at the bank started at 9 AM, so i would wait in the cold (by the back door of the bank) for an HOUR until I could get in. One day the bank president came in early and saw me huddled in the corner trying to stay warm and asked why I was so early.. He was a kind old man and gave me a KEY to the bank so i could get into the lobby early .. the bank was a block off lake Michigan and he said he did not want me to freeze to death :)

We took our clothes to the laundromat once a week and after I had the machines loaded, my husband had to sit there while I went to the grocery store next door..and then we hauled everything home..

We NEVER ate out at resaturants.. and our black & white Sylvania TV antenna was flat co-ax cable attached to our neighbor's chainlink fence.. Everything we owned was hand-me down. our bookcase was two planks of wood on stacked bricks. our 'coffee table was a footlocker and our "dining set" was a card table & 4 folding chairs wepaid $5 apiece for. (we still have 2 of them ...37 years later :)

You could say we are frugal people :)

[DemReadingDU]

72. I doubt if a bank president today

would hand over a key to any employee to get into work early. That was a very nice guy!

We also had an old set of card table & chairs when we first married for our dining room furniture. We saved for just about everything before we bought it. Kids today want everythingnow, and new - new car, new house, new furniture, new clothes. A recession will not be easy to go thru for them.

Side story - I went back to work in 1981 as computer programmer, when my kids were in school full time. I applied for a credit card, but bank told me I did not have a long enough work history and no credit in my name. So I bought $100 bicycle on 90 days same as cash. After I had worked for 6 months, I went to reapply for credit card. This time the bank told me I did not make enough money! Heck, I was making $16,000 a year - big bucks for 1981 in Ohio. Sheesh, nowadays kids in high school get credit cards, and don't even have a job. Twenty-one years later my good programmer job was outsourced to Mexico, as I now made too much money! :(

[SoCalDem]

74. We've been married 37 years and have bought exactly TWO new cars

a 1973 Maverick for $2345.00
a 1977 Chevy Wagon for $4500.00

ALL our other cars were/are used..and our latest (I am in LOVE with a car for the very first time) we bought in January ..pictures below:

I sent my husband to Carmax with $17K in cash. The poor girl in accounting flipped oout having to count it all :)

She asked my husband what bank would be financing the car and he said "the National Bank of Bill"


Our new baby:

[DemReadingDU]

80. Nice car!

We have always bought used cars too. Only 1 new car for us, 2000 Cavalier. I am still driving it :)

edit to add - we've been married since 1970. 37 years in September!

[durtee librul]

221. Hubby and I - 37 years in August

It's great reading stuff from people in my 'age' group here this morning - - I might add something else.

Hubby and I have an emergency cash stash - - heaven forbid today if an ATM failed to work. Hubby also keeps a 5 gallon can of gas out in the shed (it's away from the house and he says it's vented).

Never know when you might need it. We live in MI, but me being an old AF brat, my parents were always prepared with the basics.

I don't have time to sew clothes or bake or put up canned goods like I used to, but I do have the knowledge and the tools and we always put in a small garden anyhow for tomatoes and peppers.

Our dream is to retire to the country and escape this madness around the Detroit area (the WORST place I have EVER lived in and can hardly wait to get the f*k out of here) and become self sufficient on the land - or as much as we know how to do. There's a lot to be said for fresh fish from the lake with fresh veggies from your garden.

[Lefty-Taylor]

255. That's a good point about emergency cash.

In case of a disaster such as earthquake, volcano (we live in the Northwest), etc., we might not have access to cash through an ATM for quite some time. We try to keep some $$ on hand for that reason. The problem is restraining yourself from dipping into it because it's so convenient to grab and tell yourself you'll "replenish it later."

[LuckyLib]

92. We're used car advocates as well. Leasing a car is the downfall of many folks.

There could not be a bigger ripoff of consumers than auto leasing.

[SoCalDem]

96. I could never wrap my brain around that one..

PAY a downpayment of thousands of dollars
PAY a monthly lease fee
and then give it back after a few years or PAY a used-car price for it

And Lord help you if it has a dent or you used up more miles than "allowed"

all so you can impress complete strangers with a spiffy new car every few years :)

[Joe Chi Minh]

230. Wonderful to see such a beautiful car in the possession of people

who can really appreciate it - and to know that you eventually prospered.

[salin]

193. Heck, I would say that most folks who were kids

during that period didn't realize the economic hardships. I was a kid during that era - with frugal (depression era) parents who had one kid in college and two more to send. Thus the rare eating out, and other things suggested were the norm. Didn't realize there was a recession (deep or not) and thus it didn't have an impact. I would say most folks 40 (plus a few years) and younger don't know what this is like.

My older siblings do not have great spending/saving habits. I am not great on the little things (eating lunch out instead of packing) but am very good on the big things (save hard - and then spend on big ticket items without credit - including car (I have never bought a car on payment, and have only once bought a new car - also not on payment). I was horrible in terms of spending in college. I was on a tight budget but still didn't get it. Many a month my senior year (when I no longer lived where my food was part of the bill ala a dorm) - I ate popcorn or mac and cheese for dinner by the end of the month because I hadn't budgeted well earlier in the month.

When I kept living in expensive markets, while working for nonprofits, and had a stubborn belief that now that I was out of college I had to live within my means - I got very used to living on minimal means. Then I went back to school in an even more expensive market, and with even less money... By the time I got to earning again - I kept living on old budget - and started savings. Haven't gotten to a great deal of investing yet (but am starting) - but have been able to buy a home and a car outright with no debt.

Long and short point of my post - it isn't just the very young who have no experience with real economic hardships via the economy. Many who were kids in families in the 60s and 70s didn't recognize, nor internalize the lessons - and I would extend the age of folks who do not fully comprehend the reach of a severe recession (or depression) to 40 plus.

[DemReadingDU]

219. Right, not a symptom of the very young

Born in 1949 I definitely have different saving/spending habits than my youngest sibling born in 1965.


Generation Jones
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_Jones

Generation X
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_X

[salin]

256. The "kids" in my generation were born between 55 and 63

to very fiscally conservative (not politically - but talking household spending) depression era parents. One sibling has very little sense of fiscal household conservatism (saving for kids college let alone retirement), but the spouse is older and enforces some sensibility in this era (like when the mortgage got paid off - NOT - refi for extra money); another earns more - and is somewhat sensible (drive cars til the fall apart; pay off the mortgage and save for kids college) but on some fronts spends more than saves; and as I described I only came to a level (not all the way there) because of life choices (working nonprofits in expensive markets, and going back to school and being determined not to have great debts on the other side of that education... and finally when earning - living closer to the earlier nonprofit low-pay life than to current income.)

I am the youngest - and have little in retirement savings (though starting) but almost no debt and some assets (paid off.) But I have watched many of my college friends (graduating in the Reagan era) right off the bat go into big debts and spend at their earning limits or just above (that is - buy the house sooner than is practical with mortgages that can barely be afforded - and use credit cards to make up the differences in months that were too tight) - this lifestyle began in the mid-eighties. As college costs have escalated (and thus student loan debt) and home costs have risen exponentially - I see the same pattern escalate over the years with folks the generation(s) just below my own. Certainly not all (as it is not all in my generation) but certainly a norm. I fear for the level of debt across the board in this country from the top (govt) to large businesses, financial institutions on right down to individuals. Has worried me since the risk was really exposed (though now largely forgotten by most of the public) during the Enron and Worldcom collapses. From top to bottom we are leveraged to the hilt.

[DemReadingDU]

257. It is very frightening the amount of debt

being carried by this country. Sometimes I think our government is run like a giant Enron, and could collapse at any time. Both my son & daughter, both born in mid-70's, carry way too much debt. They have good jobs, but if something happens to our economy (like gas reaching $5+ per gallon), they will not be able to recover.

You sound like you are heading on the right path, having little debt. That really is important, for living now and in the future. You're going to be fine, as you are able to see the consequences of buying too much on credit. Savings for retirement will eventually come.

[jwirr]

24. Very good post. I am not a Mormon but I think a good goal that

they practice is to try to stock at least 1 years supplies ahead for those bad times. It is hard work but it would go a long way in being ready for almost anything.

I also like to go to rummage sales and there are several things that I buy to prepare:

candles
blankets
games to replace all our tech if needed
tools of all kinds but especially canning tools, gardening tools and building tools
how-to-books

[AikidoSoul]

188. A few solar panels, a good inverter, lots of dried beans and rice

and other easily storable foods.

Be prepared.

Did you know that the Mormons also store food underground in plastic containers? Not all of them, but some. I don't know why. A couple years back I saw a web site about the airtight underground containers that won't absorb chemicals. I wonder the containers are designed to go underground? You think it's because things could become so desperate that people would try to steal food from their neighbors?

[SoCalDem]

190. It's probably more about the ambient underground temperature

and storage space.

We had Mormon neighbors and their garage walls were lined with big blue barrels full of supplies & food :)

[jwirr]

259. Or it could be a holdover idea from bomb shelters. Protecting food

from contamination.

[Shallah Kali]

269. Probably to keep vermin from eating their food. Underground = cool so food lasts longer

though I would worry about some things like potatoes being in containers because they would go bad. veggies need to breath. My Dad built big bins in our cellar when I was a kid to store root vegetables. Here is an article that explains about how to get most out of a root cellar
http://www.motherearthnews.com/DIY/1985-09-01/Root-Cellaring.aspx

[AikidoSoul]

293. The underground containers are only for beans, rice, and other highly storable foods

They're not for foods like potatoes and carrots.

We are in the process of designing a tonado shelter because of the horrific storms and increases in tornadoes. Pre-made underground tornado shelters are very pricey, so we're thinking of getting a large septic tank and burying it and putting a deck over it so it's protected from weight -- given that many of them collapse after many years. We could also use it to store food.

Anybody have a better idea?

:hi:

[SoCalDem]

294. How would you get in it? Is there a door/hatch on top?

It's too bad that houses don;t have basements much anymore. We always scurried down to the basement and then argued about which spidery corner to huddle in :) usually ended up under the big ole desk under the stairwell ..and listened to the wailing sirens until they stopped.. then we would wonder.. Did it "run the battery down" or was the tornado gone :)

[AikidoSoul]

304. The septic tanks I've seen come with a square concrete entrance "plug" with a

metal ring to pull the cover off. If a tornado comes you don't want to be struggling with a heavy concrete lid so we'd replace it with a wood trap-door. Then we would cut out a larger entrance on the other end for another entrance so we don't feel trapped. For insurance we would also have a hydraulic jack in case heavy stuff gets blown around that settles on both entrances so we'd have a way to push the lid up to to get out.

[dogday]

26. This kind of thread is the reason I come to DU in the first place...

To get insightful information for future use that actually helps me and mine... Now there is a post... Thanks so much :hi:

[SoCalDem]

27. Thank YOU

:loveya:

[Pachamama]

29. Great advice....I think what also needs to be added is having a supply and being prepared in the

event that there is either some sort of "disaster" (natural or man-made) and even shortages of supplies (or skyrocketing costs! - ie. War on Iran causes oil supply shortages, gasoline prices soar, transportation of goods is difficult and the goods available go skyrocketing in costs.

I think anyone who has been paying attention knows that there is going to be a really hard landing in the economy when the recession (or should I say depression?) hits.

[Shallah Kali]

320. It is always good to have some nonperisable food on hand in case of emergency

Look at all the areas that have gotten hammered this winter loosing power for a week or more. If you can't get out or won't leave because the only shelters won't take your pets at least you can safely (if not enjoyably) eat canned goods to tide you over. And like you said if the fit really hits the shan people really will need back up like this.

[HappyWeasel]

30. Lol...or you could just wait until the depression and survive through putting caps into

people's asses....okay.... that was a bad joke...but still...

The entire idea that if the national economy cannot provide, that local independent networks supplant normal economic systems seems to be quite scary to me. I mean, what happens if people come more loyal to local groups than our national government. Think about it. Not only will the national security problems we have caused ourselves will grow hungry on our weakened state, but the morale of our nation will be dashed. Can I say that our country will look like the fifth century Roman empire?
It already looks like 4th century Rome with humungous scandals happenin weekly, a world of barbarians that we have destabilized and our plunder economy that does not manufacture anything and allows for less and less mobility with its ranks.

[SoCalDem]

33. What's really scary is that over time, we have lost more than we gained

There are some places where there are few, if any "local farms" anymore..and if they are still there, the farmers are quite elderly or perhaps are growing one cash crop...not a variety fo things like they used to.

and communities are more isolated than ever before.

Suburbia and its sprawl have gobbled up a lot of land..

[HappyWeasel]

39. Agreed, the loss of the blessings of freedom we have secured has in fact

made us less free, less secure, and less united. Our rights to life. liberty and the pursuit of happiess have been infringed. Life now is better and freer than it has ever been, but our security is in the gravest of dangers and we are at risk of losing all of our freedom. We must do more now than we even had to secure our way of life.

[KoKo]

282. and with all the pesticides folks use on their lawns...those of us in Suburbia

are afraid to plant veggies because of the water run off. I live in a hilly area and when my garden didn't wash out...I started to worry about what was coming from neighbors lawns. I finally gave up trying to grow things but I miss it. Thought about buying a Greenhouse but the "Community Association" doesn't allow any structure that isn't approved and greehouses don't comply. :-( The local produce we get is all "hybrid seed" stuff that doesn't taste the same because it's all produced for long shelf life and pest resistance. Even some of organic produce we bought locally from a share co-op didn't taste the way it did when we used to have our garden growing up. Potatoes and salad greens were better, but tomatoes and peppers were pretty bland. Zuchinni and yellow squash are so hybrid they are flavorless. Or, maybe the stuff grown here in NC soil just can't compete with NJ, NY and SC for taste...something differnet in the soil makeup. :shrug:

[mass.man]

31. post-article picture

Good article and a lot of excellent points. As a Christian, I find your cartoon at the end to be quite insulting.

[SoCalDem]

36. It's been re-cycled..

My snarky sense of humor overcame me ..mea culpa..

[Divernan]

130. FYI - "Mass.man" has been tombstoned - he didn't last long.

And GREAT OP - thanks.

[SoCalDem]

131. He made it to 11

poor little troll

[Kerrytravelers]

50. As a Christian, I found it to be hysterical.

Somehow the Crucification of Jesus and chocolate bunnies have become inner-twined. I found it to be questioning of the corporate take-over of religious observances rather than an insult to Christianity.

[SoCalDem]

53. I always use it at Easter time, and I love it too, but I also

change my sig pics often, so it's only offensive for a little while..

It's my Easter Compromise"... I use it a little while to please me and my snarky pals, and then I switch it :)

[Kerrytravelers]

66. You give up snarkiness for Lent?

:rofl:

That's what I'm going to give up.


Nah. It'll never last!

:rofl:

[SoCalDem]

69. Do ex-Catholics still have to "do Lent"?

If so, I've got some 'splainin' to do :evilgrin:

[Kerrytravelers]

70. I don't know. I haven't been to mass in years.

But I never actually follow through with my Lent sacrifice, either.

I've got some 'splainin' to do, too! :evilgrin:

[shrike]

223. I do go to mass and I still suck at Lent

I always take comfort in what the late actor Carroll O'Connor said.

It was either Dick Cavett or David Frost who remarked that he was a practicing Catholic and asked if he were a good one.

He said he didn't know anyone who COULD say they were a good Catholic.

[knitter4democracy]

156. Me too.

:D

[dogday]

60. What is it about a bunny missing part of it's ass that

Christ would be offended by? Just askin :shrug:

[SoCalDem]

62. I used to have this one.. that's the one that offended some folks

I use several pics during the holiday season.

I have a very :evilgrin: sense of humor

[dogday]

64. Here is one that really insults the bunny....

[jwirr]

265. This does not offend me as a Christian. I can see what it says. Most

of America thinks Easter is all about the Easter bunny. Materialism.

[Kerrytravelers]

73. Aw. Our little mass.man has had a meltdown.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x380696#383689

[SoCalDem]

75. Gee.. he made it all the way to 11 posts

:rofl:

[Kerrytravelers]

78. It too 11 posts for him to call me a "pinko." OMG! I was talking to Archie Bunker!

[halobeam]

159. Man... he was something, huh?

Archie Bunker himself... and I spent my lovely time typing a simple yet educational response to him.

Better to have cared to respond, than not to have cared at all.



:rofl:

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

149. delete on edit

:blush:

[SoCalDem]

151. The pic I had before this one was bunny-on-cross

I change them every few days and since some people took offense, I put my favorite back on the shelf and posted my 2nd favorite one :)_

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

152. oops! my bad. I love the chocolate bunnies...makes me laugh out loud

:hi:

[Joe Chi Minh]

231. I'm glad you took it down. If you're wrong and Jesus did die that

painful death on the cross to save us from a fate worse than death, as I believe he did, it's a heck of a slap in the face for someone who showed such heroic compassion for us. It reminded me a little of a photo of a girl on the front page of the Observer, wearing a tee shirt with Christ's face under his crown of thorns, with what was meant to be a mocking comment.

Reverting to the topic, my wife has a cell-phone for safety, but I wouldn't have one on principle. In fact, I wouldn't have cable, though there's some good stuff on it.

[knitter4democracy]

155. You forgot the sarcasm thingy.

As a Christian, I really hope you're kidding.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

32. Some other things I didn't see on the list

1. Shop at grocery salvage/overstock stores. We have a distributor who has an "in house" store open to the public. Everything is within dates, no dented cans, opened boxes. But the stuff was overbought, and you can get things like a pound of pinto beans for a quarter. We have a salvage store run by Mennonites that also sells Amish cheese and local eggs, and everything is lots cheaper than at a grocery. You do have to be careful and check food, because some of it is out of date--but they will return money on items that aren't good. And buying paper products there is great!


2. Shop at thrift stores for your clothes. Only things I buy new are underwear and shoes(because of strange shoe size and foot problems). The local Hospital Auxillary has some great stuff-women's jeans (which I have to wear to work)for $2-3 dollars, and they hold up well. Besides, the money goes to a good cause--in this case, our contributions have helped purchase wheelchairs and other items the hospital needs. Also be sure to donate unneeded stuff to these places.

3. If you have unusual needs, go online and get closeouts. This is what I do about shoes because of major foot problems and unusual shoe size--the unusual size has worked in my favor in finding closeouts cheap.

4. If you can, use an old swimming pool or even a stock tank to collect rainwater from your roof. This is an excellent source for wash water--it is soft and actually gets clothes and hair cleaner than water from the tap. And in case of an emergency, you have a water supply.

5. If local laws allow it, consider using a bucket of sawdust for a toilet. The "humanure" created can be composted and used around trees and plants you don't plan to eat. No, it is not smelly and no it is not gross. And it saves a bunch of water--which could be critical in times to come. Obviously, I live in a rural area where it is ok to do this.

6. Consider checking with neighbors on what they are raising in their gardens. If someone has an overabundance of tomato plants, consider growing peppers or squash and trading out.

7. Dry fruits and veggies--an easy way of preserving that saves space. Dried onions are great to put into stir fries and stews.

8. Use old clothes scraps to make quilts. The "batting" can be an old blanket. Besides making quilts, you can make pillows and padded seats for chairs, and even pot holders. I like to use old jeans for making pot holders and for making pads to put under sleeping bags.

9. Go to garage sales to look for specific things you need. But beware, especially if you get small appliances--cockroaches are often brought home from such sales. If you get a small appliance such as a toaster, wrap it in plastic and stick it in the freezer overnight. This will kill any bugs you might have brought home with you.

Our local County Judge suggested that we have a minimum of 2 month's supply of food and water at home, in case of emergency. Most folks around where I live have been doing this for years.

[HappyWeasel]

34. This is actually kinda scary, ya know that?

[SoCalDem]

38. Believeme.. I KNOW it's scary.. I am 57, my husband 63

We are fully expecting to have "our luck run out".:scared:

[HappyWeasel]

41. What would we do then?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

52. I'm 56

and come from a long lived family. I feel blessed to live amongst people who are willing to help and share. Unlike many here, I see this as a time of great change, but not necessarily one that will result in disaster. For those of a mystical bent, they may wish to check out http://www.mayanmajix.com for a new/ancient slant on what is happening and why.

[HappyWeasel]

54. Oh. I see. The story of Millenium.

We live in a time of great tribulation and if we can see it through, we will be rewarded ten fold if we survive our incarceration and death.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

57. Nope

The story of the evolution of consciousness. And the time of tribulation is a part of evolution. No guarantees of "rewards"--just a guide as to what is going on so you can decide what to do. What I find most interesting is that the time we are in now is called "Ethics". Read about it and you may be surprised.

[HappyWeasel]

61. Hmmmm...

12/23/12... That's why things have been happening the way they have and maybe there is a platonic link between the mayan mythology, the christian rapture and evolution. Perhaps we are in a critical time right now and this is both our darkest and brightest hour.

[JanusAscending]

111. Thank you for this post!

I just ordered my Mayan calander and reading! I'll let you know how it reads! I need all the help I can get now. I have some very important decisions to make. Peace and Love and Light to you!!

[DemReadingDU]

76. I'm 58, husband is 60

My husband compares life to a football game, 4 quarters. So far we have had 3 good quarters (excellent health, no credit card debt, house paid off, kids grown). But we are entering our '4th' quarter, and anything can happen. We hope to remain healthy, but an illness could set us back, big time. If we live past 80, we have bonus time!

[kineneb]

317. our luck already did run out

Hubby just turned 60, and spends 3 days each week attached to a dialysis machine. I am 48, and am his caregiver. Due to the insane Medicaid rules, if I work, he could loose his drug coverage. Because of his medical needs, I am unable to work full time, and of course part-time work never comes with any benefits. We don't know how long he will live; my guess is about 5 more years, baring some exciting medical discovery.

We have a very small mortgage, no savings, the car is paid off, and we went through Ch. 7 last summer. We owe Mom for the legal fees and are paying her off.

And to top off everything, on March 14th, our goddaughter will move in with us. She is 18, bipolar, newly orphaned (her mom died in Jan.), and just got kicked out of her grandparents' house. Think good thoughts for us.

[SoCalDem]

318. kineneb... words cannot express how sad I feel for you and your family

That just sucks so much.. I hope you have a good girlfriend who can be your "rock"..

It sounds like you have more on your plate than anyone could imagine..
:hug:

[LiberalEsto]

40. All excellent advice

Thanks, SCD!

Here's one more I learned nearly 30 years ago from an insurance agent:

Pay some extra principal each month on your mortgage. This will ultimately shorten the number of years on your mortgage and save a bundle in interest costs.

The man who told me this suggested prepaying the next month's principal in addition to the current month's principal & interest in order to cut a 30-year loan down to 15 years.

We can't afford another $200-300 a month in principal, but I usually can manage at least $50. Even when we're broke, we try to squeeze in $10 in extra principal per month.


*** Does anyone know if this can be done with car loans and student loans? ***

[SoCalDem]

51. Unless you have a really strict "pre-payment" clause, i don't see why you couldn't

Usually the pre-payment clauses end aftre a specified amount of time, and are there to make sure they get their "full pound of flesh" from your loan, but paying extra each month should not make that kick in.

[distantearlywarning]

222. We have been doing this with our car loan.

We've cut down our 5-year loan to a 2.5 year loan by paying an extra $100 or so towards the principal every month. The other good part is that if we ran into some financial trouble, like one of us lost a job, we have built up a cushion of pre-payments for almost 6 months on the vehicle - for instance, I believe our next payment on the car is technically not due until August, and even then it would be about half of the normal payment. Not that we would stop paying on the car unless we had real life problems or something.

We think we're going to have the whole thing paid off by the end of the year, because my husband is getting a raise and we're going to maintain our current lifestyle and apply the extra to the car loan every month. Pretty good for owing 18K at the end of 2005, eh? And they're not getting as much interest out of us as they wanted to. I'm pretty proud of us for all of that. :-)

After the car gets paid off, we're going to start applying that money to student loans, although those won't be as much of a priority as our interest rates are insanely low (honestly, we could probably do significantly better investing the extra than using it to pay down the student loans faster).

[LiberalEsto]

236. That's great!

I'm going to start doing that with the car loan too.

[Texasgal]

46. Ummmm

"Take a hard look at the secondary income job (usually the wife's). "


HUH?

On edit, I do not want to take way from your post, it was full of great info... but I must admit that ONE comment kinda stood out. There are plenty of WIVES who make more money than their husbands... I should know, i am one of them.

Not a biggie. I appreciate your post.

[SoCalDem]

59. That's why I said "usually"

My friend's daughter-in-law is a prime example.

She made $7 an hour at Longs Drug Store.

She paid $125 a week for daycare for her 4 yr old and her 18 month old. Her hours were erratic, they had to get a second car because of her and her husband's hours not meshing.

She needed some "work clothes" and some work shoes.. Her hours often meant she had no time to cook..

After all was said and done, she ended up clearing about $100 a month, and her kids were always getting sick, and her 4 yr old started acting out..

She finally decided it was not worth the hassle. they sold the extra car, and she's going to wait until her oldest is in kindergarten and the youngest can do the pre-school routine.

With that kind of "second" job, they were better off with her NOT working..

Obviously if the "second" income is the one with medical coverage for the family or if it brings in as much or more than the "first" income, that's different, but there are millions of Moms (or Dads) who feel pressured to "work" , when staying home would actually benefit the family more....but you gotta do the math to figure it all out..

[Kazak]

56. I've been living more-or-less just like that for about 10 years now...

Though I'm not sure it's really going to help that much when the hard times do come. :shrug: 'Guess we'll see...

[SoCalDem]

63. It will, because you are already used to being frugal

:)

[BluePatriot]

65. K&R

My tip: Thrift stores and resale shops. Make it a fun "hunt" if you have kids. A good attitude is all the difference between "this is kind of fun, hey, I found a bargain and look at all the stuff I got" vs. "this is a hardship and I hope we never have to stoop to this level again!" I know, I've seen it (my upbringing vs. hubby's)

[SoCalDem]

68. My middle son's all time favorite clothing item?

a pair of coveralls (from a brake repair place) with the name "Bud" on a name patch on the front.

he paid $0.75 for them and still has them..

I cracked up when he showed them to me. This is the kid who used to whine & stomp his feet when I said "NO" to $150 sneakers:)

He LOVES to shop Goodwill..

[BluePatriot]

177. Hehe.

Actually I am thisclose to rescinding the thrift store advice after going today. My GOD the markups are insane now. And the small places are picked-over due to demand. Sigh.

[shimmergal]

244. Try garage sales instead of thrift stores.

The big drawback--you seldom know if they'll have the size clothing you need. You can do a lot of driving and end up with nothing wearable.

But, prices are usually far below those at inflated "like new" used-clothing stores' prices, plus you may be able to talk your way into paying even less. At most garage sales, clothes don't move very fast (if at all).

It can be fun, though, especially if you have a craft or hobby that you're seeking new "finds" for. That way, you have twice the chance of finding a "Eureka" bargain.

[BluePatriot]

278. *nods*

One thing -- if there is more demand for bargains or people keep things longer to "make do" then I am scared garage sales may dry up...then again people may be selling stuff for extra $$$, so, who knows. I really saw this effect of higher demand at the resale shops and small thrift center I went to this weekend. Yikes. Many of us follow SoCalDem's advice already apparently...we went to Ross too, a local discount clothing store, and it was way packed.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

71. Good advice. W/ respect to the emotional turmoil of that "loss",...

,...'cause, you know, it is a difficult transition from economic stability to economic challenge, focus on what is really the most valuable areas of your life: family, friends, living fully in spite of life's ups and downs.

[petepillow]

77. if i had any sense at all, i'd print this out and slap it on the fridge.

THANKS!

[Dora]

79. "Usually the wife's"

That "usual" income scenario is untrue for my house, and I have to add that I think it was absolutely unnecessary for you to make that distinction in your otherwise lovely how-to.

Sexism is dead. Long live sexism, I guess.

[SoCalDem]

82. I don't consider it sexism. It's a sad fact that men usually make more than women

and in 2 parent families, women USUALLY have the job that pays less..

For single-parent, Mother-only families, times are tough and getting tougher because of that fact.

Upthread I described the situation I referred to.

The families that have two "equal (or nearly equal) earners are the lucky ones, but even they will (or could have) trouble if a deep recession hits..

Not too long ago some grocery stores around here merged and there were husband/wife combos who lost good paying union jobs, simultaneously. No health coverage (except COBRA, but they could not afford it), just two unemployment checks for people who were used to having a decent family income.

A 25 hour a week job @7.50 an hour GROSSES $187.50 a week.. Take taxes out, factor in a second car expense and then subtract $125 a week for daycare.. What's left?

THAT was the "2nd job" scenario I used.. <y suggestion was to look long and hard and to do the math..

Some 2nd jobs are worth it, and some are not..

[Midlodemocrat]

94. You are absolutely right. I have the best of both worlds and am very grateful for it.

A high paying executive position that I do out of my home. It allows me tremendous flexibility in dealing with my kids.

It wouldn't be worth it for me to get a part time job somewhere, and a full time out of the home job isn't a consideration as my husband travels a great deal and his income is bigger than mine.


I recognize that I am definitely in the minority here. Most moms would feel as though they died and went to Heaven in my position and I literally just fell into it. I didn't go to school for it, have no degree in it, it fell into my lap.

I am beyond grateful. It was a tremendous burden lifted off our shoulders this summer when my husband fell ill that the bills would still get paid. He had disability insurance, but they don't direct deposit nor are they are reliable as a steady paycheck.

[DemExpat]

183. hmmm, any tips for others about what kind of at home jobs like yours

can fall into our laps?

:7

:hi:

DemEx

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

113. I know, that struck a discordant note. n/t

MKJ

[On the Road]

81. This is Good Sensible Advice

It's basically how the Chinese took over many other Asian economies.

I particularly recommend #6 about renting a room. It is by far the easiest way to save large amounts of money, and you can meet some interesting people too. If you can charge $400 per month, that's almost $5,000 per year. In twenty years, that's $100k. With interest, it's about $200k, just for sharing your space. Or you can use to travel once a year without borrowing putting anything on a card.

Trading skills is great, too, especially for things like renovation. If you live near a blue-collar areas, everyone and his brother has a trade and wants side work. Even major projects can be done for surprisingly low cost.

I am not sold on the idea of an upcoming depression, but it's inevitable that lots of people are going belly up with debt and will have a very, very tough time of things.

[SoCalDem]

83. My son lays tile as a side job, and has "traded" that skill many times

He just picked up the engagement ring he bought (paid cash) for his finacee'.. He got $1500 off for agreeing to tile the jewelry-maker's bathroom and installing new garage doors for him..

[Singular73]

179. 1500 off what total price?

Im guessing he got ripped off. You can easily talk a jewler down 20-50% without tiling their floor lol.

Diamonds are worthless, and they know it.

[SoCalDem]

180. He's a big spender.. got her a 2.75 carat with side baguettes 1 carat each

He spent 10,450..(yeh..I know :eyes:..)

had it designed start to finish :) so no one would have one like it..

My son the schmuck..

Our rings (including 2 bands) probably cost less that $300..

[meldroc]

85. If you have a long commute, join a car pool or van pool.

Especially with the high gas prices these days, you will save a ton of money if you do this.

My city has a van pool service with several other cities in the area. I just pay a fixed fee per month, which is partially government subsidized (Bush hasn't killed this yet) and I ride to work in a shiny new van, with gas, maintenance, everything included.

You will save HUNDREDS of dollars doing this.

[SoCalDem]

89. That's a HUGE problem out here in commuter HELL

When I worked, I had a ONE-way 68 mile commute..and I had to be there at 4:45 AM..:grr:

I had no "regular" quitting time, so a car-pool situation would not have worked for me..

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

100. Also, commuter is rather limited to high population areas, it seems.

Horses would be faster.

Bottom line: alternatively-fueled vehicles would be far better. And, I just KNOW the technology is out there.

[meldroc]

134. That's pretty rough.

At least with me, I have a predictable starting and quitting time, and I have a coworker who does the same commute, so even though my commute's almost as long, we can arrange the van pool pretty easily. I might be able to telecommute if gas prices get too much worse, but I'm not sure I can talk my boss into it.

I'm not looking forward to what will happen if Bush attacks Iran. Iran will use their Exocets and Sunburns, as well as old fashioned anti-ship mines, and shut down the entire Persian Gulf. Gas prices will climb from $2.00-$3.00/gallon to as much as $8.00/gallon.

And those of us with really long commutes will be completely screwed. For that matter, everyone will be screwed, since such a scenario will start the Second Great Depression, and possibly World War III.

[prolesunited]

87. I would add make good use of the local library

You can get all the books you want, spend the afternoon reading magazines and most have DVDs and CDs available. Also, they offer lots of free programs, especially for kids.

[Nikki Stone1]

102. I would also add "Support legislation FUNDING your local library."

These fine institutions have been getting cut to the bone. My local library doesn't open until noon most days because it can't afford to.

[SoCalDem]

104. My son said that our library was CLOSED

I haven't been there in ages (since the last election), but he said it's closed for "repairs"..who knows?

[Nikki Stone1]

108. I'm in SoCal as well, so I wonder if we have the same funding issues

It frustrates me that funding for libraries is decreasing because they do so much for the community.

[Hekate]

168. We elected to tax ourselves to keep the library open full-time.Literally...

The usual excuse for lack of funds for libraries et al. is Prop 13 -- which was passed a long time ago, you know? but its unintended effects linger on.

A few years ago our district let it be known that the public libraries would have to go to shorter hours and fewer staff, so local citizens petitioned to put a measure on the ballot to raise taxes for that one purpose. And it was done.

I'm in Goleta, Santa Barbara County. Best of luck to the rest of you So Cal people.

Hekate

[SoCalDem]

169. Around here all our tax money seems to go toward the futile purpose

of road building/repair and building new schools..

[Hekate]

170. I know; this was essentially a line-item in the budget, a single-purpose tax.

I'm grateful we got it through.

Hekate

[we can do it]

88. Thanks! Great Ideas for Everyone

[fortyfeetunder]

95. One comment about overdraft protection

.......d) Ask your bank for a checking account that comes with over-draft protection (ours has $1k) so if you ever screw up, you will not be charged a bunch of bank fees...or keep a savings account where you have your checking, so you could transfer (online) between accounts.

There is a limit as to how many times per month (I think it's 6) where you can make penalty-free transfers to your checking account. It's called Regulation D -- the banks made sure we can't manage our checking account through out savings accounts (because they want to nail you for an overdraft)

However, line of credit accounts with overdraft protection on your checking account (where the banks can make money from your overdraft by charging interest on your account when you overdraft) are not subject to Regulation D.

[SoCalDem]

98. We've never had to "use" it, but yes.. DO check on the rules

I don't really know all the details on ours, but it's comforting to know that if my husband takes money out without telling me, and bills get sent, we're ok.

Before I started the online banking, he "forgot" to deposit his paycheck for TWO WEEKS..

We could have had a disaster, but luckily for us, no big checks were presented for payment, and we had enough. I only noticed it when the statement came and we were missing a deposit. He checked his briefcase, and there it was..at the bottom, under a bunch of papers. :grr:

[gulliver]

97. You're way too optimistic.

Don't forget global warming or the chance that Bush's Iraq folly may have set off an unstoppable slide into world war and tyranny. If we don't get some wise people in charge soon, we may be well and truly screwed.

Have a nice day!

[SoCalDem]

99. Shhh,.. We don't want to scare the kids

:)

[nadinbrzezinski]

106. While readying this I raelize

how much of that we already do

We may need to replace the truck in the next two years, but when that hapepns, I may have the money for it.

There is one step you did not put that I will add

Get to savings and getting an emergency fun for well, emergencies

I just bit the big one and I thought I'd have to replace the puter I am typing from, well it will be the fan from the comptuer I am typing from but... I did not worry too much about it, since we do have an emergency fund. and cash it would have been

[butterfly77]

107. K&R

[Nikki Stone1]

112. What worries me is that we no longer live in walking distance of most things

The big move to suburbia has meant a move away from cities and public transport (and the gutting of these cities as the money moved out). I am fortunate in that I am within a mile of my local supermarket and can make the trip on foot if I have to. But, most things (like my job) are just too damned far to walk or even to bike. A depression could really make transportation a huge problem.

[KatyaR]

115. I have a couple of hints to add:

1) I try to do all my shopping, errands, etc., to and from work and during my lunch hour. Very rarely do I ever go anywhere on the weekends, mostly because I like staying home, but because everywhere I need to go is on my work route. This way I'm able to go about 2 weeks on a tank of gas. (My last job was closer and I could go a month on a tank--I miss those days!) When I do shop, I try to buy things like dog food in bulk so that I only have to that store once a month.

2) I shop in a very small locally-owned grocery store. They actually have many as good or better deals on canned goods, etc., than the box stores. I can get in and out in 15 minutes because I don't have to wade through aisles of expensive stuff that I don't need anyway. That alone saves me tons of money. Unfortunately they're closing in April, so I don't know what I'm going to do then. :-(

3) I'm trying to garden more, so this year I'm trying to grow as many of my veggie and herb plants as possible from seed. There was a bit of an investment for a grow light and other supplies, but my seedlings are doing really well, and I may end up saving a couple of hundred dollars.

4) I always turn out the lights when I leave a room. What small lights I do leave on in the kitchen and bedroom don't use much electricity.

5) When I'm home, I open up the windows as much as possible on nice days. I love the fresh air, and not having to run the AC or heat is an added plus. I use ceiling fans to keep the air moving.

6) I'm learning to leave the TV off if I'm not watching it (which is most of the time these days). If I want some noise for company, I turn on the radio or listen to something on the web while I'm surfing.

I admit I still seem to spend more money than I save, but every bit helps.

[SoCalDem]

120. We put in an attic/whole house fan years ago, and I too love to open the house up

I try to open the place up every morning and "blow out" all the stale air.. The ceiling fan in my office wobbles, and the chain clanking on the side drives me nuts, so I don't use it much, but we do use the ones in the other rooms

[blues90]

116. We have cut down to the nub on everything

However without a job or medical we have fallen into the credit card hell . Now we struggle to keep alive and off the streets . Wonderful bush world and economy .

[Tsiyu]

117. A timely post

Recession or no, things are tough and getting tougher so a little planning goes a long way.

Some things I do to help (and things are very lean here presently)

* Find a good mechanic. Mine is also a good friend, fellow bandmate and he keeps my car in good shape without gouging. Keep the oil changed and tires rotated!

* Sign on for only local phone service. My kids ran up long distance bills from hell, before they moved out and got their own cell phones. Now, I use calling cards - a hassle but a bargain - for all long distance calls. Dollar tree sells $1 cards worth 35 minutes, and they are a lifesaver. Cellphones do NOT work here or I would get one just for the free long distance.

* Entertainment and fellowship are important. Where I live, people already understand that and we have a great time just dropping in on friends and visiting. but there are also all sorts of free things to do here, game nights and music jams and even free pool tables at one club nearby. Also, get out in nature with your family. Find nearby parks and rec areas and let the kids run around and explore the great outdoors. Walks are also free!

Also, find a good locally owned video store. Ours rents the old ones 5 for $5 and that's a weekend's worth of entertainment for small $$$

* Get out of the house and meet the neighbors. We keep to ourselves on our rural road, but my favorite neighbors are always there for me. They'll call to ask if I can pick up feed for them and offer to do the same when they are heading out, since the feed we like for our horses and chickens has to be purchased 40 miles away. A good neighbor is worth his or her weight in gold.

* Freecycle or the equivalent.

* Keep track of your grocery expenditures. What can you cut out? I have stopped buying coffee for home and switched to green tea for a huge savings. I still drink the gourmet stuff at a local shop, but it's a treat rather than a daily must have. The brand name stuff isn't always the best, and the pre-packaged stuff costs a lot. You may not think you have time to chop, dice and prepare your own meals, but get everyone involved and it's a nice family time.

Every bit you save is helpful.

I love these kinds of threads! :)

[SoCalDem]

118. Also, for the "carnivores".. Look for london broil on sale

around here it sometimes goes on sale for $1.69, or less a pound..

Since it's totally lean, buy a bunch and slice them thin for chicken fried steak.. use intact for grilled london broil, or cube them for stews , swiss steak, soups..

Ask the butcher for THICK ones.. partially freeze (for easy cutting, trimming, slicing)

and ask to have 2 or 3 of them gound up. You will "lose" a bit in the process, but in the end you will have ground round for a whole lot cheaper than the shelf price..and you'll know that it all came from ONE place..not bits & pieces from many ..

It's about the only cut of meat I buy ..

[Shallah Kali]

271. re: Video Rentals - Check your local library. Mine lets 'em out for a week

If yours is stingy with time ask if they would please let movies out for at least 1 week at a time so you possibly can combine returns with errands in that area.

[formercia]

119. My favorite non-GM seed source:

Save your own seed. I save a lot of money every year by saving seeds from non-hybrid varieties that do well on my soil.You will have to try different varieties to see what works best for you. Even some of the hybrids come back well and they tend to be more resistant to pathogens.

http://www.fedcoseeds.com/

They cater mostly to northern gardeners but most will grow anywhere in the US with some common sense.


Even if you don't order anything, the resources page in the downloadable catalog in .pdf format is a treasure of information.

[NickB79]

121. Just look for anything that says "heirloom" on the package

They're becoming much more common.

[formercia]

127. Heirlooms are good

I make my own 'Heirlooms' by saving my own seeds. I found that over time, the seeds that I save do better than the ones I originally purchased from the source, since I tend to save the ones that do best in my micro climate.

[Shallah Kali]

272. re: seeds - try the bulk bins at a health food store for organic bean seeds

also organic seeds for sprouting so if worst comes to worst you can have a little fresh veggies even in the dead of winter to prevent scurvy.

[mopinko]

122. why do these lists all scream to me-

women- get back in your house. get back to doing the things goc meant you to. i know you better than that, but #1 and #3 pretty much say that.
pretending that this is the 50's isn't really gonna help anyone.

[SoCalDem]

124. Men cook too

and cutting expenses is a family process..not just a "girl" thing :)
:hi:

[mopinko]

144. yeah, i know. not many, tho.

and a big reason people eat out is so that they do not have to examine those issues. that's the sad fact of it. i don't disagree with a lot of what you are saying, just saying that it sure isn't simple. kinda disrespectful of those engaged in those struggles.

[SoCalDem]

146. I never meant to be disrespectful.. I just know that there are a lot

of young people who have only known "good times"..

[mopinko]

150. i know that.

i'm just sayin'

[KoKo]

277. One can take "pride" in frugality and a job well done that one has

mastered whether it's at "home" or out in the work place. The pride of self sufficiency is a positive for some folks that shouldn't be "put down" either. :shrug: Don't think anyone here is trying to push women back to the 50's....it's just sharing experience of times that were "different" and how to survive through recessions when one has to cut back. Helps deal with the "frustration" to be able to do more on one's own and have some skills for survival.

[mopinko]

285. i know that, but

the thing that made those times different was women at home. if it wasn't mom, it was grandma. i suppose after the crash, we will all have time to garden and can.

sorry, it is just a pet peeve of mine that people look at "the good old days" throught this gauzy lens. how hard women worked, but it is "simple"- read, invisible. i have to squeek up.

[KoKo]

286. no...not about how hard women worked. The fun times and passing along tips for survival. n/t

[druidity33]

123. also...

Folk might try planting a garden and dumping Cable television...

just a thought.

:)

[racaulk]

125. Is that you, Suze Orman?

Just kidding. :)

Wonderful suggestions and excellent advice. Thank you! Kicked, recommended, and bookmarked!

:kick:

[SoCalDem]

126. I wish I had her financial acumen and her $$$

Just a lifetime of experience...hard times & good times..

[riderinthestorm]

162. I heard an interview with Suze Orman on a talk radio show in Chicago

and Suze Orman is verrrrry frugal. For example she will not buy coffee at a Starbucks for 3x the cost; she drinks Folgers, puts extra in a thermos and takes it with her. She is a devoted second hand shopper and clips coupons. She uses an airline miles credit card so she can get free trips with the points and keeps her house at a steady 66 in the winter, 78 in the summer (and I heard this interview a few years back before keeping the house temp was a big issue, global warming wise.)

It was a wierd interview but the two women who were with her (Kathy and Judy 720 am for those of you in Chicago) really drew her out about her own spending habits and they were shocked! shocked at how thrifty Suze Orman is.

[Coexist]

128. actually, I find magazine subscriptions to be an inexpensive item

for $12 you get a year's worth of reading material. That is a bargain to me. Timely stuff, to, delivered right to your mailbox.

The rest is great, though.

[SoCalDem]

129. IF you read them.. I found that I skimmed thru them and then

they just piled up until I hauled them off to the doctor's office:)

[Treclo]

228. I too, like periodicals.

I subscribe to quite a few, but I also take advantage of the fact that our library sells mags for a quarter the month after they come out, as well as donated (current) magazines.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

185. The New Yorker is incredibly cheap and high quality when subscribed to.

I got two years of the New Yorker for $45. Amazing amount of interesting stuff like Seymour Hersh, Jeffrey Toobin, etc. and it's usually a weekly, but several double issues a year. They print many many excerpts of fiction and non-fiction books each year.

At the end of each year they print a list of the books that parts of have appeared in their pages. There are 20 or 30 of them.

Back in the 1970s they printed an entire book in three issues -- The Fate of the Earth by Jonathan Schell. It was the first book that explained in great detail the horrifying effects of a nuclear war. It was the first book I read that talked about the electromagnetic pulse and the blinding of millions of people and animals.

[Patiod]

192. The New Yorker is worth every penny

Sometimes it's a week worth of reading (when it's too NY or architecture or modern art heavy, it only takes a few days).

I found myself buying it for $5 way too often, and realized a subscription would be more sensible - none of the issues every sit un-read (I look at it as 1 month's worth of cable - and we don't have cable)

[melody]

132. excellent post -- frugality is also fun n/t

[Nicole]

133. Great advice!

I'm already doing many of those things & I have for years.

I only take just enough cash for groceries on my list when I'm planning to pick up a few things. If I don't have the extra cash, I can't spend it on impulse items. Of course that doesn't work too well when I'm doing my big monthly shopping trip, I use my debit card then. I'm talking about the small trips to pick up bread, milk, etc., I use cash only for those things.

I never buy anything at the grocery store other than food. Non food items can wreck your food budget.
Plastic, paper & all cleaning supplies are bought at the dollar store. Beauty & hygiene products I buy at the drug store or beauty supply store.

Choice of landscaping can really impact your utility bills. I plant evergreens on the north side of the house, they help block the cold air in winter. I plant deciduous trees & shrubs on the south side. They shade my home in summer but they let the sun in during the winter.

[LSK]

135. theres really a simple rule of thumb to go by

If you cant pay cash for it, you shouldn't buy it.

Mortgages excluded.


ps: Do not cancel the credit cards, just DONT USE THEM. Its better to keep unused cards open for your credit rating.

[SoCalDem]

136. Some CC companies just do not send new ones when unused ones expire

If you cancel them, their "limits" also disappear from your "potential liability" on the credit report.

if you have 5 cards with 10K each limit...even if they have zero balances, it counts against you because you "could" add $50K of new debt pretty fast..

If you keep one with a decent limit, and just use it occasionally to keep it "alive", you're good to go:)

[LSK]

142. no, they want to see you have unutilized debt

They want you to have $50k potential debt that you have restrained yourself from.

[WinkyDink]

137. Have 2 CC's; no cell-phone; no premium cable stations (HBO, etc.); try to eat fresh

(near a great farmers' mkt); grow herbs; pay in full for all major purcheses, even cars; use coupons (saved $16 last order!); rarely eat in restaurants, and never fast-food; have Energy-Savings HVAC; no kids; no pets; retired (teachers: no skill to barter! LOL!); buy my fancy chocolates at T.J. Maxx!

Indulgences: Pop concerts and wine!

[Virginia Dare]

138. Scary times when all of this comes crashing down...

and it's going to. Lots of people will be stuck with consumer debt they can't pay, and a bunch of useless stuff that's not worth anything.

I think we will see a return of "poor houses". All of these mcmansions that have cropped up all over the place will be housing five and six families. Malnutrition and disease follows.

This is my worst case scenario, and I hope I'm wrong.

[HappyWeasel]

139. Yeah.

That could happen....I am also concerned of the fallout beyond the economic ramifications. Cities could become disserted, there could be civil disorder and maybe even civil war. A lot of people may find it more productive to try to live out in the woods than trying to get a job or even farming. Some states may find that they are better off as an independant state and groups of people may start trying to survive by forming communes that are countries to themselves.

[malaise]

140. Fabulous post

One recommendation - get a pre-paid cell phone and use phone cards or ATM phone credit updates.

[KoKo]

299. K&R!

[wryter2000]

143. Well done

If you can't bank online with your bank, just about every type of credit card can be paid at the retailer's or credit card's website. It involves going to a few websites, but I find it easy enough. Plus, you can get some bills deducted automatically from your checking account. I pay my water and power bill that way.

I use so few checks now I usually run out of deposit slips before I run out of checks.

[SoCalDem]

145. We used to order just deposit slips, but now I just grab a handful

of blanks, and I bought a rubber stamp with our account info..and I make my own :)

[Leopolds Ghost]

147. Also: If you live within 5 miles of your work, buy a bicycle or use Mass Transit.

Even if you're not a granola crunching politically correct hippie.

You get exercise you will NEED as you get older.

You will also save money because of climbing gas prices and the like.

When poor people from other countries move to the US, especially home caretakers from places like Africa where there is no mass transit except jitneys, but communities are walkable, they often complain about how American citizens (including liberals in ultra-liberal towns like mine) actively pressure them to move "up and out" into totally unwalkable commuities.

When your spouse or kids pressure you to move into a "bigger, better home in the sticks" discuss the matter with them. Consider what their reasons are. There is a lot of fear and hostility towards people of lower income groups associated with living in inner-ring, working class neighborhoods. Are you purchasing a big house because "you've earned it"? Because "it's the American dream"? Because "nobody should have to live in a run-down inner area with poor schools, and we're finally getting out of there"? Because "when the yuppies finish fixing it up, the old neighborhood will be a good place to live again, but right now it's crime infested"? Consider your preconceptions. 90% of Americans absolutely refuse to live in a small house, and absolutely refuse to live near people of a lower income group, regardless of ethnicity. This is according to the real estate industry, which has tried and failed to persuade customers to do so. Those are the statistics. How do we change that anti-urban preconception, which, due to discrimination and defunding of local governments, has also infected small towns and ANYHWERE that is considered "cramped" because of "schools aren't good enough and there's inadequate parking"? Try staying put and encouraging your neighbors to do the same, and work with everyone in the neighborhood to better the community instead of desperately saving up in order to afford to live in the expensive part of town which has better services, bigger houses, and no mass transit.

Often, that BIG HOUSE consumes more resources than the car, and comparing cars to mass transit -- budget wise -- is meaningless if living as far from center as possible is a prerequisite (i.e. many well-meaning Americans say "I want to use mass transit, but we really need to live as far from the center as possible". This is whether or not there's affordable housing closer-in. The affordable housing crisis, in which urban areas are turned into second homes for the wealthy who park their SUVs in underground garages and turn 6-unit townhouses into 1-unit mansions, only makes it worse because then urban areas become only affordable to the very rich and very poor.

Anti-urbanism consumes a large amount of economic resources in Anglo countries like US, England, and Aurstrailia. It affects our bnudget and the time spent at home with family versus the time spent driving, or paying for our car, and then late in life (as in my family) it's too late to become an active walker or bicyclists, once you lose the muscles, it's almost impossible to get them back, even for recreation.

[NMDemDist2]

181. I had to laugh at this post, even though in many areas your idea is correct

here in rural New Mexico we have 3000sf brick custom homes next door to 30 year old single wide trailers

on my road we have a mix of both and everything in between (my mobile home is a 1997 and one of the newer ones)

i know my across the street neighbor and the guy two doors down are both literally millionaires but the man next door probably makes $20K a year

we're neighbors, we share tools, garden goodies and labor as needed

I love it here :rofl:

[SoCalDem]

184. Yep.. nothin in the world like new mexico zoning laws

We'd always laugh driving between Belen & Albuquerque..

crumbling adobes with chickens in the front yard, right next to magnificent "haciendas"..:rofl:

Have you guys gone to "Luna Mansion" yet? Next time you hea dfor ABQ, try it.. Great food..fantastic ambience :):hi:

[Zorra]

148. Yes, SoCal Dem, we're in for a bad time ahead, good advice.

The signs are all there for recession, and it looks like it's going to be a big one.

[northofdenali]

153. SCD, we've managed #1 through #5 and are

working hard on 6 & 7. We recently lost my hubby's dad, and the reading of his will was yesterday. He left me his Jeep and my hubby his house/land/all the house contained (except specific bequests). We're hoping to sell by summer, buy a little land out of town and get as "off the grid" as possible (probably easier here than most places, we're pretty prepped for it). Cabins are easy to maintain, easy to build, and if we're lucky enough, there will be a well and spring nearby. We thought we had that already, but had to sell to help my FIL with meds, home nursing care, etc. Not a huge loss, but it's now a start-over situation.

I agree. The wonderful young folks out there (I include my daughter who is 25) haven't really seen what a major recession/depression can do. Especially now when the divide between rich and poor is so very vast and justice almost impossible to attain.

:loveya: friend, and thanks for the very timely reminders :hug:

[Flabbergasted]

157. K and R

[Deja Q]

160. Or how about suicide pills for the less fortunate?

Or single union workers who have to walk the lines, losing money at twice the pace of their married coworkers - which is most of them. I know a single mother who may have to cross the lines... of course, if she lived in another country, President Bush might just help her out... in America, she's scorned. Weird.

[ScreamingMeemie]

161. I agree with everything except online bill paying and telling children

the budget.

On line bill paying because I worked at a bank, know how screwed up things can get and prefer to leave a paper trail. To me, the time it takes to undo a snafu, deal with possible credit marks from wrongly applied payments etc. is time. Time=money to me. I'll keep my checkbook.

2. I don't believe in worrying children about the household finances. Childhood should remain as carefree as possible financially speaking. I do tell them,"We can't afford it." or "That's too much for that." End of story.

Good luck in your cutting back and let us know how it goes. :hi:

[SoCalDem]

171. My kids' habits changed when we showed them "the money"

My middle son found one of Dad's check stubs once and said.. WOW.. Dad makes a TON of money, so we truned it into a math lesson. I sat him down and had him write down Dad's paycheck amounts, my paycheck amounts for a month..

He was flabberghasted by the HUGE amount.. (of course he was 10 years old and got a buck a week allowance IF he did his chores)

Then
I had him subtract "THE BILLS"..

he was especially shocked when the house payment came off the top.

When he got to the end, he said "Mom we still have a lot left"..

So I said.. "Do you eat?"...Does the car take gasoline? Do you go on field trips for school? Do you like to take vacations? etc.

When we got to the final final final number, he was amazed to see how much it cost to run a family of 5, and after that he more understanding when we said "NO!"

[Hekate]

163. Good advice for "the kids" and good reminders for us older ones

I think the only thing you left out is quitting smoking. I am aghast when I reflect on what my daughter spends on her pack a day addiction.

I think I know a few young couples I can send this to....

Hekate

[Blue_Tires]

167. ttt!

great info

[Bushwick Bill]

172. OIL CRISIS FULL SPEED AHEAD!

Folks, evidence is mounting that Saudi Arabia has peaked in oil production.
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2331
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2325

If that's the case, the world has peaked. Best case scenario is that we are arguing over peak being 5 or 10 years away. Three of the four world's largest producing oil fields have gone into decline in the last few years. Cantarell in Mexico is absolutely crashing. Evidence is mounting that number one, Ghawar, may be at that point. Tough times indeed are ahead.



http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

[NEOhiodemocrat]

174. Locate a good consignment shop

I buy most of the clothes for my two grandchildren as my son is raising them alone. I have found that buying their clothes at garage sales and one great consignment shop has really paid off. My son gives me their clothes back when they outgrow them, I return them to the shop, and leave my money on account. I can go in anytime and pick up whatever I see that they can use for 'free'. This week I went in and picked up four sun dresses, a bathing suit and a hat to give my great niece for her birthday party tomorrow. They are like new, and I just took it out of my account. My husband just shakes his head and said don't tell them where you got the gift. But my kids have worn used ever since garage sales started in the mid 1970's and my one daughter was voted best dressed in her high school class. It sure is better than buying into rampant consumerism.

[Patiod]

194. Unfortunately, consignment is easier for the petite

I'm about 6' and a size 14 or 16. Consignment people have told me that people usually sell their clothes as they gain weight, hence the TONS of 4s and 6s and meager pickings in the 14-16 range (and tall people must NEVER consign their clothes!! No Size 14Talls!)

I did stumble across a garage/estate sale once where they were selling big clothes, and picked up a great 1940's swing coat in my size.

On the plus side, I can wear men's sizes, and have found some great unworn men's jackets in my local hospital thrift stores. Once found a wonderful unworn cotton-candy pink blazer in a Main Line thrift shop - I just know the wife bought it to go with hubby's green golf pants, but he refused to every wear it!

[NEOhiodemocrat]

225. True, consignment shopping best for children

I am 5'1" and, shall we say, round. But sometimes I find items for me and always for the grandchildren and my five children. But isn't it sweet when you do find that perfect something? I wear one of my Dad's old Pendleton jackets as a fall coat, love it for the plaid and the sentiment!

[Zech Marquis]

175. how am I doing?

Currently I don't use a credit card, just my visa check debit card to buy stuff with. By the end of April, I want to I have $2000 saved up in both my checking and saving accounts. I do want to buy my first car this spring--I'm looking at the 2007 Nissan Sentra and Honda Civic sedan LX (maybe the 2007 Altima if I wait until June). I don't call long distance unless I need to, and I pay my bills ontime :-) I want to keep my car payment at about 300, so the Sentra and Civic both match (the Ford Fusion too). I start driving classes on the 19th, so I can't wait!

[SoCalDem]

178. have you used carmax? or cars.com to price those cars?

You can save a TON o MONEY if you look for a nice used one.

We got a 2005 (sold dec 29, 05) We bought it on Jan 7 , 07, so it was only "on the road" a little over a year...only had 21K miles and the 10 yr warranty was fully transferrable.. We basically got that car for 1/2 price..

Sold new for $32,450 (as equipped) and we paid $16,460.00 (including tax,license,registration)..

The car Looks new, smells new, and we LOVE it ..(we did pay cash, but even of we had set up payments, it would still have cost less than new..


here's an example

$17,988...2006 Altima

About This Altima
Mileage: 7,100
Body Style: Sedan
Exterior Color: Silver
Interior Color: Black
Stock #: xxxxxx
VIN:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Engine: 3.5L V6
Transmission: AUTO
Drivetrain: FWD
Doors: 4
Wheelbase: 110"

Features: Power Mirrors, Power Door Locks, Bucket Seats, Cloth Seats, CD Player, AM/FM Radio, Air Conditioning, Clock, Trip Odometer, Cruise Control, 5 Passenger Seating, Tinted Glass, Alloy Wheels, Power Driver`S Seat
Standard Equipment: Strut Front Suspension Independent With Stabilizer Bar And Coil Springs, Multi-Link Rear Suspension Independent With Stabilizer Bar And Coil Springs, Four Disc Brakes Including Two Ventilated Discs, Driver And Passenger Front Airbag With Occupant Sensors, Complex Surface Lens Halogen Bulb Headlights, Luxury Trim Alloy Look On Doors And Alloy Look On Dashboard, Upgraded Cloth/Velour Seat Upholstery With Additional Upgraded Cloth/Velour, Windshield Wipers With Variable Intermittent Wipe, Power Steering, Cargo Capacity: All Seats In Place (Cu Ft): 15.6, Dashboard, Audio Anti-Theft Protection: Integrated In Dash, Two Height Adjustable Active Head Restraints On Front Seats, Two Head Restraints On Rear Seats, Three Asymmetrical Bench Front Facing Rear Seats With Zero Adjustments, Fixed Rear Window With Defogger, Tachometer, Low Fuel Level Warning, Low Washer Fluid Level Warning, Front Seat Center Armrest, Rear Seat Center Armrest, Delayed/Fade Courtesy Lights, Front Reading Lights, Cargo Area Light, Full Dashboard Console With Covered Storage Box, Full Floor Console With Covered Storage Box, Partial Overhead Console With Covered Storage Box, Spacesaver Steel Rim Internal Spare Wheel, Tinted Glass On Cabin, Door Ajar Warning, Internal Dimensions: Front Headroom (Inches): 40.8, Rear Headroom (Inches): 37.6, Front Hip Room (Inches): 53, Rear Hip Room (Inches): 54.5, Front Leg Room (Inches): 43.9, Rear Leg Room (Inches): 36.4, Front Shoulder Room (Inches): 56.3, Rear Shoulder Room (Inches): 56 And Interior Volume (Cu Ft): 102.8
Hide Additional Features

[AikidoSoul]

313. Go to Consumer's Reports to check on the best type of car to buy

Don't believe the EPA gas mileage figures -- they are a scam to help out the corporations.

CR had a great investigative piece on that and it was amazing to see how completely off the EPA figures were.

We purchased a new car with a very high rating on everything including mileage. We get about 29 miles per gallon. It doesn't too much difference whether its a Toyota Matrix, or a Pontiac Vibe -- they are both the same car except for a few mindor details. If you did decide to buy one I'd suggest a Toyota because the service is better than Pontiac. We love the car and are saving a lot on gas.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

186. Call your county extension agent office for free advice and literature.

Most states have a county extension service sponsored by the USDA and the state's A&M school. Your county extension office is usually located in the courthouse or near to it.

Two of my grandparents were graduates of Mississippi A&M, and they came to Texas.

He was the county agricultural agent(and first veterinarian) and she was the county home demonstration agent in a poor rural county. They taught a lot of people useful skills to keep themselves from starving to death during the Depression. Growing food, canning food, nutrition, soil analysis, raising livestock, pasture management, on and on. Urban counties have them too.

[alfredo]

187. Eat low on the food chain. Vegetables good. Beans, rice, dairy

that served me well for many years.

Use meat as a flavoring, not as the focus of the meal. If you can do without meat, do it. It takes a while to adjust. Eat like those of the Mediterranean and lands east. Pay attention to how they use vegetables. Learn their spicing. It's amazing what you can do with Chick Pea and the right spices.

The Mennonites have a Cookbook called "More With Less Cookbook." It's not just the recipes, it is how you look at food.





Eat Less. Eat wisely, and you will save money.

[AZBlue]

189. Great points! Different view on the magazines though. And I suggest keeping record of expenses.

That is if you read lots of magazines regularly like me (partially because of work, partially because I like them). Then it's much much much cheaper to subscribe, especially if you go to someplace like ebay and get a real deal on your subscription (sometimes you can find 3 year subscriptions for less than one year through the magazine!). You can cut your annual costs to one-tenth (or more) of what you pay on the newsstand if you read a certain magazine monthly or weekly without fail.

The way I finally realized just how much I was spending on newsstand purchases of magazines was by keeping a record of ALL my expenses. I loaded a template from Excel and I track every cent I spend - and immediately saw areas that I could cut back on: magazine and newspaper purchases, entertainment, lunches and breakfasts at work, eating out, etc. I HIGHLY recommend this - you don't realize how all those small purchases add up until you do actually add them up!

[SoCalDem]

191. When i subscribed, I found myself not even reading most of them

so that was an easy way to cut down and clear some clutter :)

[AZBlue]

196. Oh definitely, if you don't even read them, why waste the cash - or the tree for that matter?

If you're like me though and you read them faithfully, it's a way to save.

On a tangent - isn't it also great to clear clutter?!

[SoCalDem]

197. yes, but the packrat gene in me usually just fills up empty space

with other stuff..

My problem is that as elderly relatives pass away, i get all sentimental and end up keeping stuff I should toss..

and I keep trying to give stuff to my grown sons, but sometimes they dont want it :cry:.. I try to tell them that someday when they are older, they will regret not taking Grandma's rocking chair

[AZBlue]

198. No, if there's a sentiment attached, then it should be kept.

And you might not always have that sentiment - in a few years, you can change your mind, but you can't go back and un-donate it to Goodwill! How old are your sons - they will most likely change their minds too as they get older and you'll be glad you still have the items then - once they "see the light". :)

[Manifestor_of_Light]

305. I'm cleaning out a house at the moment that's been in the family a long time.

I'm cleaning out a house and it's quite old. I've gotten an auction house to come over to the house, haul off the furniture, china, tchotchkes, etc. and haul them to his auction house, where he will have an auction and take about 30% for his trouble and give me the rest of the money.

We literally can't move our stuff out of our city house up there until we get the sellable stuff out. And we have stuff to sell at the city house too.

I live in a very large city where you can't walk anywhere. Most of the year it's too hot to wait for the bus; it's a health hazard. And when I move to this little town, I will have to drive everywhere too. There is no grocery store in the town, thanks to Wally World, and I will have to drive 15 or 20 miles to shop at a non-Wallyworld grocery store, or to shop at a hardware store. And if I want to shop at Target or some other than besides Wallyworld, I will have to drive 60 miles.

I plan to start an art colony up there and invite my arty friends to come up there and be creative.

If you're not into country music or church, there is nothing to do. I'll practice my music and renovate the place.

[SoCalDem]

306. Maybe there's nothing to do NOW, but after you arrive there will be a new thing

your art and your eclectic friends will revitalize the place..

I would love to do what you are doing..maybe someday I will.. (But I am NOT artistic..one bit..)

You;ll have to do like the old time farm people did.. Plan One whole day around "goin' to town", and make a whole day of it. :)

[kaygore]

195. Thank you

[Elwood P Dowd]

201. Buy stuff on eBay

I've been selling there for 8 years, but I also buy stuff. Have found Levi jeans for as little as $3.00 a pair, and they look almost new. Purchased some jockey shorts still in the package for $4.00 pair. My cordless phone cost $5.00. The DSL modem cost $9.00, though I bidded minimum and lost 3-4 before I finally won this one. You do have to be extra careful about the shipping charges, since some eBayers attempt to make extra bucks with that. Never get into bidding wars, and never shop on eBay when your drinking or stoned. Finally, I purchased a $1,000.00 DVD player on eBay for $25.00. The video part didn't work, there was no manual, so it was advertised as a parts unit. The pics were also of poor quality. I only wanted a high quality CD player for my seperate music system, and this particular unit was rated one of the best sounding on the market for playing CDs. Sure enough, it didn't play DVDs, but it would play standard redbook CDs that made my old player sound like crap. Been using it for over a year to play music. It sounds almost as good as a friend's new $700.00 Denon. Now he is looking out for one.

[Contrite]

204. Already there or working on it.

Every day.

[emlev]

205. Join freecycle.org

Get things you need that people are done with but that still have use in them: appliances, clothing, books, quite a variety...you can even request what you're looking for.

Give away all the stuff you have that you don't need anymore. Then maybe you can find what you need that you already have, rather than going out to buy another one because there's no time to search for the one you've got! Plus it feels good and builds community.

Freecycle works via local Yahoo listservs. It's very cool. Check it out.
www.freecycle.org.

[Alamom]

206. Thank you. Excellent post and ideas. I'm over 50, so I know

the recessions, gas lines, 2 digit interest rates......

My grandmother was born in 1896 and lived to be 90. She told "us" about growing up (poor) pre- WWI, the Great Depression, rationing & trading during WWII (she had a family then).

Our Grandparents & Great-GP's lived through some rough times. Mine were poor, but they made it.

I hope we have what it takes.

Thanks again.

[njdemocrat106]

207. I bookmarked this thread

Thanks for providing some good advice. I know I'll be coming back to this.

:)

[vssmith]

210. Ever read the book "The Fourth Turning?"

The book was written in 1997 and explains why we are due some calamitous event within the next few years.

[diamidue]

211. Scary look at future.

Read "Financial Armageddon". If the economy never worried you before, it will after reading this. It addresses all the little nightmares that await us down the road unless a miracle happens: massive unemployment, bank failures, foreclosures, sky-high gas & medical bills, food shortages, stock market crash?,etc. Then, if we get into hyper-inflation, your $$ will be next to worthless. I'm only half way thru the book and I'm already in panic mode.

A Democratic presidency isn't going to be able to stop the economic problems we face - not at this late date.

[antigop]

212. 60 Minutes: U.S. heading for Financial Trouble?

Transcript at:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/03/01/60minutes/main2528226.shtml
(Video is on right hand side of the page.)
>>
When the stock market plunges like it did this week, everyone pays attention. The man you're about to meet says hardly anyone is paying attention to what really threatens our financial future. Like an Old Testament prophet, David Walker has been traveling the country, urging people to "wake up before it's too late."

But David Walker is no wild-eyed zealot. As Steve Kroft reports, David Walker is an accountant, the nation’s top accountant to be exact, the comptroller general of the United States. He has totaled up our government's income, liabilities, and future obligations and concluded the numbers simply don’t add up. And he’s not alone. Its been called the "dirty little secret everyone in Washington knows" – a set of financial truths so inconvenient that most elected officials don’t even want to talk about them, which is exactly why David Walker does.
>>

[progressoid]

213. Yep, started doing a lot of these things a few months ago.

[Anser]

215. Some good advice, but

C'mon what a downer!


Seriously though this "sky is falling" mentality is destructive, to our psyches, to our families, and to our party.

Most of the things on the list of suggestions should be done because they make sense, not because of an impending doom.

Destructive how?

1. Our psyches. This one is obvious, you most likely can already feel it if you think this way. Depressed, right?

2. Our Families. I grew up as a "part of the fanancial team." Do we really want to put that kind of stress on kids? I liked what one poster said about making it fun, but some kids won't except that. Especially if you are bargain hunting because you HAVE to or else be DOOMED by the HARD TIMES ahead. Kids are smart, and if you are that worried aout it, they'll worry too.

3. Our Party. For the politically uninitiated, who would you vote for? The Candidate that has a "Can-do" attitude, or that one talking about the falling sky? It's over simplified, but this is how some people think. How many times do we hear, even from people on "our side" "OK democrats, good job pointing out all the bad things happening, but lets hear something proative."

Proactive as in not just fixing the problems, but of making things better. Proactive, not reactive.


Oh, and, like I said, most of these suggestions are good (Although I agree with many posters that the comment about "usually the wife's job" being the one "not worth it" was entirely sexist)

Heres a couple more suggestions:

1. Cheer up. We are open minded progressives, our creativity is unabounding and we can make great things happen!

2. Comparison shop. Many stores will honor competitors ads, comparison shop by bringing all your ads to one store,, rather than wasting the gas of going to all the stores. ALso, many places will honor competitors coupons. So Store A has a big coupon but marks Item X up, Store B has no coupon , but has item X on sale. Either use B's flyer at A with coupon, or A's coupon at B for some big savings. (Remember though, only if you were going to buy item X anyway!)

3. Shop online. Shopping online can save you a lot of money, but beware, because it can also lead to impulse buying since it's so easy. Some websites where you can find a lot of good deals (though mostly on things you don't need) are fatwallet.com and slickdeals.com

[SoCalDem]

242. The "feel good" mentality we have become accustomed to is part of the problem.

Ad people know how our "lizard brain" works. Feeling blue, boyfriend left you, girlfriend dumped you for a guy with a nicer car, gained a few pounds, lost a job??....

GO SHOPPING.. YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO !! You'll feel all better after you buy something..

Even the "president" told us to go shopping after 3000 people were killed for just going to work, and the two tallest buildings * in the world came tumbling down on live tv. (* may not have actually BEEN the two tallest)

Americans have not always been "shopaholics". This is a realtively new phenomenon that came along after WWII.. Kind of like.. "Hey, you just won THE BIG ONE...you DESERVE a big ole reward..so here's a bunch of neat-o stuff that you have been waiting for..".. Don;t have the money to BUY it all...CHARGE IT !!

People today forget that they COULD end up jobless. Everyone thinks that THEY are always going to have a good job.. thwey guy in the next office will be the one laid off or the neighbor will get the ax..but never themselves.

IT HAPPENS..and when it does, there is no way to know if it will happen when you have savings in the bank and no debt.. In fact it usually happens when you are DEEP in debt, and have NO savings.

My post was not intended to be a "downer".. Just a reminder that advance preparation is never a bad thing. If nothing happens, you have just saved money, and can buy even shinier stuff..and for cash..

and once again. "the second job" for MOST families is a low paid parttime job that USUALLY is done outside the home by the WIFE.. It's just a FACT.. sorry if it seems sexist.

Obviously if a second job is equal to or better than what is considered the "first" job, this advice would not apply at ALL.

There are millions of womoen who waitress at night or who are busting their asses schlepping kids to day care every day for $7-8 and hour..and once all the COSTS to DO that job are deducted from the measly take home pay, it may be COSTING the family money for her to have that job.. Now of course if Mom is a lawyer/doctor/whatever, and DAD is the one delivering pizzas or working at Walmart, they HE would the be second job-holder..so...

It;s about the MATH..not the gender..

[Tsiyu]

270. You can only hide your head in the sand for so long

No matter how "cheery" you think we should all be, we cannot change the truth. This is not being pessimistic or paranoid; this is being grown up and facing reality.

Our nation has had one very serious economic Depression, and we have an even worse savings/debt ratio than we had back then.

The reality is, we can expect another big Depression if the status quo continues.

People who fail to prepare will lose that "cheeriness" real fast when they have nothing to eat.

These suggestions are not just common sense - they may mean survival in the very near future.

Do we wish for this? Hell NO!!!! But I am a realist and the signs are everywhere. You fail to prepare for an economic downturn at your family's peril.

And letting the kids understand the seriousness of our nations' difficulties is not bad parenting nor is it instilling fear in them. When I've taken my kids to the beach I didn't believe it was fear mongering to warn them about the dangers. Why would I shirk that responsibility when it comes to our livelihoods? It is far better to get them used to living frugally now than to have it dumped on them later. If everything turns out to be hunky dory, no harm done except maybe developing some good habits and teaching them to live wih less.


Just my $.02

[Phrogman]

216. Remember to keep your passport up to date!

In case you got to split!

[Error]

217. I have all my money in tied up in Real Estate

$639k mortgaged on my main house (100% financed)
$436k mortgage on rental home #1
$230k mortgage on rental home #2
I hope the bubble pops fast and inflates again, so I can restructure.

[rman]

218. If so many Americans are spending more than they are earning,

in other words: are no longer aggregating capital - which already was true for the poor and the working poor, but is now increasingly true also for the middle class - then is it fair to conclude that these Americans are the facto not capitalists any more?

[Nikki Stone1]

235. kick

:kick:

[napi21]

238. I've been doing all the things you suggested for years. My sons

AND their wives haven'ta clue what it means to live frugaly! Both my youngest son's kids have EVERYTHING! He even remembers when he was young, going to a fast food joint was a BIG TREAT and we only went once ever 3-4 months. But that's sure NOT the way he does things now! It's going to be a VERY BIG adjustment if he has to go back to days like that, not only for him, but his kids!

I do have a few more suggestions though.

enter copy cat recipes or make your own into your search engine. People don't realize how easy and cheap it is to make your own Hamburger Helper, or taco seasoning. To refine the search, if you're looking for a specific thing, like Hamburger Helper, just enter make your wn hamburger helper, and you'll find many links. The cost of making your own is about 35 cents instead of $1.00 for the box when it's on sale! Copy cats recipes even tell you how to make things like McDonalds Big Mac sauce, or recipes from the many popular resturants.

The other thing I've done for about 4 years now is get my long distance through a site www.onesuite.com

The calls withing the US are 2.5 cents/min and since my oldest son lives in Italy, I call him fairly often. The cost of a call to Italy is 3.6 cents/min. It worksmuch the same as a calling card, except you put a certain $ amount in your account, and re-fund it when it gets low. I usually just deposit $10. You access their system via local phone numbers, and when you place your call a message even tells you how many minutes you have to the number you're calling. There's lots of options too, like setting up a speed dial for frequently called numbers. Just pick a 2 digit number, and when the system says "Please enter the number you wish to reach, you enter that 2 digits, and the call is placed! And NO, I don't own the company or have stock in it. I don't even know if it's a public co! I love it when some phone company calls me looking for my busienss. All I say is OK, if you can offer me a lower price on my LD calls than I'm paying now, I'll accept you offer. When I tell them how much I'm paying, then hang up! HA!

I was born in 1943, so my childhood was well before Kmart, Walmart, etc. It was a BIG DEAL whenmy mother took me to SEARS!!!! When I got my first job, I always bought a monthly bus pass,so I knew I'd always be able to get to and from work, because MANY TIMES, I'd have 10 cents in my wallet and it was two days until payday! I really feel bad for people who have never been through anything like that, because if times get really bad, they're going to find it VERY HARD to deal with!

[AnnieBW]

245. Start a veggie garden

Or, if you can't, buy local produce. Help keep the family farmers in business, and cut down on the amount of fuel needed to transport food.

I'm thinking of starting a veggie garden. However, my backyard abuts a wooded area, and we get all kinds of hungry critters back there. I love all of the Goddess's creatures, but I'm not gonna waste my money and time feeding THEM instead of ME. :D

[shimmergal]

247. There's one thing NOBODY's included, and it has potential

for the biggest savings.

That's extended family living.
Granted, it won't work for everyone. If you don't get along with your older parents, adult children, or siblings, the situation isn't likely to improve in a shared living situation.

Yet if your differences are just minor irritations, and both/all are game to try it, sharing one of those MacMansions could be a very good thing. There's still room to have your privacy, but also you'll have more than one other adult (or nobody else) to help with expenses, plus you often diffuse the irritations that come up _always_ in coupledom or family life.

There's a reason our mass media so relentlessly push the "isolated nuclear family"
gospel. It means way more appliances, cars, etc. are needed for the same population, and less backup for babysitting or medical emergencies, so that you have to pay out the kazoo just when you can least afford it. With no relatives you might trust enough to borrow money from, then you _have_ to put things on the credit card, or even borrow at the payday loan center.

Or, you can even go with the "intentional family" model, and share with a like-minded group of friends, but I suspect these are more subject to disagreements and disruptions, lacking any blood or marital ties that impel people to try to get along.

Think about it. This might be the answer for a lot of people.

[SoCalDem]

248. My son does this.. he shares a 2800 sq ft house with 3 guys

Every time we have visited him (which is often), he's the ONLY one home. Young people go OUT a LOT, so why pay big-time rent on a place you are rarely even IN?

They have a fantastic set up and including utilities it costs them about $450 a month..they have a 3 car garage, a big back yard, a "pool-table room", a "video -game room", and all have rather nice sized rooms of their own..

this situation might not work very well if there were girlfriends/wives/kids in the mix, but for single people it's a GREAT idea.

I did mention "renting a room" or taking in Granny/Grandad, but in some cases "co-housing" could work very well.. as long as no one gets all " Who ate MY kid's cereal? or It's YOUR turn to clean the bathrooms"

[roamer65]

287. The best thing I did was not to buy a house 2 years ago.

Houses around me have already lost 25-30% and they are not expensive ones. Simple middle class homes. People who are sharing housing are being very smart right now.

[BluePatriot]

279. totally!

My mom, dad, and both sets of grandparents all live on the same cul-de-sac in small condos. It is great for companionship and support as they age. A wonderful arrangement. Mom misses privacy, though, so it may not be for everyone. They are lucky they could manage that and it will work out well for them as everyone gets older. As a family unit, they also keep an eye on older and disabled neighbors as the grandparents are retired and can spend their days keeping up with neighbors. They swap items and cook for each other. My parents come home from work with a home cooked meal waiting. They go to block parties and Dad sits on the condo-board as treasurer. Really illustrates the importance of community to me.

[kowanda32]

258. Old school

I am canning fruits and vegetables.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

261. Each car you get rid of will save you at least $3000 per year

Learn to love public transit, bicycles, and feet.

[Xenotime]

266. How are you supposed to maintain good credit?

Getting rid of credit cards would dammage your credit rating.

[SoCalDem]

267. If there's a serious downturn and one loses their job, credit cards are the LAST

they should be running up costs on.. and when credit tightens up, there are a bunch of people who will not longer even qualify . once banks start using "formulas" again.

The whole "planning" thing is to try and "clean house" BEFORE things get hard..

It may sound harsh, but if you approach finances with the idea that you "could" be unemployed at any time, you are a lot more careful with the money you have and you tend to be mor ewilling to save for a rainy day.. Believe me.. It eventually ALWAYS rains

[Shallah Kali]

268. Some other suggestions on this topic from a blog

100 Things you can do for Peak Oil - Part 1 (1-48: Home, Garden and Clothing)
http://groovygreen.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=347&Itemid=57

100 Things you can do for Peak Oil - Part 2 (49-100 Community, Family, Transportation, Etc.
http://groovygreen.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=349&Itemid=57

If you don't believe Peak Oil is or might occur ignore the title. Some of these suggestions might just be what you need to get though a tough spot whether it is from economics, climate change, or natural disaster.

[SoCalDemGrrl]

273. Good advice except DONT shop Walmart. Their business model should notbe

supported as it only adds to the problem.

Other than that I COMPLETELY agree with you. I remember the

15% mortgage rates in 1983 when we bought a house. We only went

for it because the house we purchased was priced at $60,000 less

than the asking because of the high interest rates at the time.

I certainly remember those REAGAN times and we are the verge of them

again

[SoCalDem]

275. I would NEVER recommend Walmart ..ugh!!!

[BluePatriot]

281. I got some energy-saver bulbs at Wal-Mart

mostly b/c I found it ironic and I was looking for vanity bulbs for an older fixture. (Wal Mart caters to their audience at least by carrying items that fit older things. I actively tried finding a non-standard toilet seat cover for old toilets anywhere but Wal Mart, but, no dice.)

But, their stuff like clothing falls apart, the quality is terrible. It is not worth any savings and often their prices are equal to Target on some items, or the local HEB store for groceries. The bulb-purchase was the only thing I've bought there in maybe 4 mos.

[raccoon]

283. Great post. One question,

".....b) Do laundry & dishes at off-peak times"

How do you know what are the peak times?

[SoCalDem]

288. Usually the power rates are lower later in the evening when demand is lower

At least it is for us.

In fact. my el-cheapo dishwasher is on its last legs, so I have been washing dishes by hand for a while now. I figured I might as well, since a lot of the stuff coming out of the dishwasher, I had to re-wash anyway.:)

[Coventina]

289. Lately, I've seen dozens of ads on tv telling me to add up what I spend

on high-speed internet, cable, and cell phone, then see how much I could save by "bundling" with Qwest!! They have packages as low as $97 a month!!!

Well, let's see.... I don't have cable, I have dial-up internet that costs me $10 a month, and my cell phone costs me $30.

So, I'm spending $40 a month and Qwest tells me I SHOULD be spending $97!!!

:crazy:

[SoCalDem]

290. YOU'RE the reason the economy is failing.. You are not spending your "share"

:rofl:

How on earth did you get a cell phone deal for $30 a month.. I laugh my ass off at my friend, whose monthly bill for their cell phones is in the triple digits. I love to remind her that they are spending a ton of money just so they can argue, and so that her son can always find her to beg for money :)

I am pissed at my landline service (usually runs about $40, and we make very few calls), but I cannot seem to find a way to get one for less..

Last month we only used 187 minutes, and the damned bill was $44..we have NO extras..and only make local area long distance..not long-long distance.. :grr:

[BluePatriot]

295. I wish I had decent cell service

We got rid of our land line b/c things were working out OK with cell only...and now we cannot get signal into our apt. We have Verizon. I want to call them and rant and throw around the words "bad faith" a lot to get out of the contract for free. I wish I could get some kind of reliable cell service in our place, we are not in the middle of the woods or anything.

[Coventina]

296. Well, maybe I was fudging the cell figure a bit....

My husband and I have a package deal that's $60.00 a month, so I was dividing that number in half for "my" expenses. But I suppose if I did that, I should have divided the dial-up cost as well and say I was paying $5 a month.

So, maybe a better way for me to have quoted was that my husband and I pay $70.00 a month for cell phones and internet. Still a lot less than $97.....

Don't even get me started on the landline....it is a total rip-off. I almost think we were all better off when Ma Bell was a monopoly.

We have no extras either, no call waiting, caller ID, etc. No long distance either. We use the cell phones for that.

[napi21]

300. Call your phone company and ask what is their lowest rate.

I make VERY VERY few calls too. Most often, less than 1 a week. My phone company has a "limited service" option that is $9.95/mo. you're allowed 30 calls per month, and I use "oneSuite" for all my long distance calls wether they are local long distance, out of state, or international. Of course they still add all those damn taxes and charges to the bottom of the bill, so the total bill is $19.

I finally got a stable internet so I checked into getting Sunrocket VOIP for $199.99/yr with NO ADD ON TAXES, but unfortunately they said service was not available in my area. ;(

There are other VOIP services available here, but the cheapest is whtough my cable co. and they want $39.00. Still wayto high IMO!

[tammywammy]

323. Do you have the option for the "metered rate" for phone service?

You can make something like 20 phone calls a month. And it's cheap.

My mom went to metered service, because she really doesn't use the landline, except that she has DSL. Anywho, she also cut out long distance, call waiting, caller ID, all those little things.

[CrispyQ]

297. And lastly,

get yourself in the best physical condition you can. Watch those vices & if they are out of control, rein them in. Eat right, exercise regularly & get enough sleep.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure -- especially in Dubya's America.

[paparush]

298. Sounds like the same stuff I heard prior to the Y2K Global Meltdown.

[high density]

310. No kidding

Is this spurred on by the "subprime" mortgage market? Do people understand what subprime means?

It doesn't take much to bring out the "sky is falling" people here on DU.

[SoCalDem]

312. Not "sky is falling".. Most people like to save money and if their parents did not stress it

they may not have learned.

In the best of times, being frugal can net you a nice nest egg and in the worst of times, it can make things a little easier.

The only problem is that in uncertain times, you may not have advance warning.

None of the things that I , or others, have suggested are particularly onerous....