Mar. 10 Daily Impeachment News: post high crimes and misdemeanor news here

[L. Coyote]

This thread is an idea being tested.
If the DU Community wants to have a daily thread like this, it will be obvious by your PARTICIPATION.

POST articles, start the thread in the morning with a link to the previous thread and an article, kick only if buried, etc.
I'm not able to continue this daily beginning in a few days.
VOTE for this thread by keeping it alive.

Mar. 8 Daily Impeachment News: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x368202
Mar. 9 Daily Impeachment News: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x376380

==============

First up today from a Google News search:

A CASE FOR IMPEACHMENT OF BUSH AND CHENEY
by Gunther Schnitzel
http://www.unconfirmedsources.com/?itemid=2284

The subject of impeachment was debated by the Founding Fathers during the Constitutional conventions. The Federalist Papers give rationale for many parts of the Constitution and are often used to interpret the intent of the framers.

In Federalist No. 65 <2>, Alexander Hamilton described the subject of impeachment as:

"those offences which proceed from the misconduct of public men, or, in other words, from the abuse or violation of some public trust. They are of a nature which may with peculiar propriety be denominated POLITICAL, as they relate chiefly to injuries done immediately to the society itself

George Bush and Dick Cheney have committed crimes that threaten our democracy.
They misled Congress and the American public about the threat from Iraq,
illegally wiretapped American citizens phones and emails,
and tortured prisoners in violation of the Geneva Convention and US law.

It is absolutely imperative that they both be impeached!

Let's first look at the list of the president's and vice president's High Crimes and Misdemeanors. They are:

......a long list.....

[L. Coyote]

1. ONE BUMPER STICKER proposes: Impeach Cheney First.

Cheney's still dangerous
By Robert Kuttner | March 10, 2007
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2007/03/10/cheneys_still_dangerous/

ONE BUMPER STICKER proposes: Impeach Cheney First.

Vice President Dick Cheney has now suffered back-to-back humiliations, with the conviction of his former chief of staff, I. Lewis Libby, and the wresting of key foreign policy decisions by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. But if anything, he is even more dangerous wounded.

The Bush administration keeps handing the opposition party loaded guns, the latest being the clumsy, politically motivated firings of eight US attorneys, a rare oasis of professionalism. These prosecutors are appointed by the president, but, unlike ordinary presidential appointees, they are not normally removed except for cause.

..... more ....

[L. Coyote]

13. Lyndon LaRouche : `Impeach Cheney First'

This editorial appears in the January 13, 2006 issue of Executive Intelligence Review.

`Impeach Cheney First'
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/editorials/2006/3302cheney_first.html

As we near the reopening of the Congress, and talk of "impeachment" becomes increasingly widespread throughout policy-making circles, there is one central strategic point which must be kept in mind: Dick "Beastman" Cheney must be the first to go.

Lyndon LaRouche and this magazine have been the leaders on this point since June 7, 2003, when LaRouche's Presidential campaign first issued a mass leaflet on the grounds for impeachment of the Vice-President. At that time, the Vice-President's malfeasance, and deliberate fraud, on the question of the Niger yellow-cake story had just been revealed by Congress, and it was clear that Cheney had committed an impeachable offense. The argument put forward in that leaflet still stands.

Cheney's crimes against the Constitution of the United States have only increased since then....

...more ....

[L. Coyote]

18. One of the great things about Google News search ...

Cheney's still dangerous = Boston Globe, MA - 8 hours ago

One of the great things about Google News search is a display of how many media outlets are carring a story that propagates around the world. It is an indication of "voting" by editors regarding its merits for publication. In this case, the article is deemed very important:

" 750 news articles..."

This from this search, for impeachment: http://news.google.com/news?&q=impeachment

========
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2007/03/10/cheneys_still_dangerous/

As more details of the serial assaults on the Constitution emerge, one could make a good case that Cheney and Bush deserve impeachment at least as much as ...

[EFerrari]

2. George McGovern to Cheney: Resign (The Nation)

John Nichols Fri Mar 9, 11:50 PM ET

The Nation -- George McGovern has a word for Vice President
Dick Cheney: "Resign."

Responding to Tuesday's conviction of Cheney's former chief-of-staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, on charges of obstruction of justice, perjury and lying to the FBI -- after a trial that revealed Cheney's intimate involvement with a scheme to discredit a critic of the administration's war policies -- the former congressman, senator and presidential candidate said it was time for the vice president to go.

"What we have learned about how he has conducted himself leaves no doubt that he should be out of office," McGovern says of Cheney. "If he had any respect for the Constitution or the country, he would resign."

And if Cheney does not take the liberal Democrat's counsel?

"There is no question in my mind that Cheney has committed impeachable offenses. So has
George Bush," argues McGovern. "Bush is much more impeachable than Richard Nixon was. That's been clear for some time. There does not seem to be much sentiment for impeachment in Congress now, but around the country people are fed up with this administration."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20070310/cm_thenation/1173825_1

[L. Coyote]

11. Excellent Photograph. Go to the beach to vote your opinion! n/t

[L. Coyote]

3. Republicans Could Face New Ethics Probes

maddezmom Wed Mar-07-07 02:41 AM

Republicans Could Face New Ethics Probes
DISCUSS: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2758044

WASHINGTON (AP) - Republicans could face ethics investigations for contacting U.S. attorneys about pending cases, a jarring political development only four months after ethical lapses helped cost the GOP control of Congress.

Two veteran Republican lawmakers and a top GOP leadership aide contacted prosecutors who later were fired. All three denied wrongdoing.

~snip~

The Senate ethics committee already is conducting a preliminary inquiry into the call by Sen. Pete Domenici, R-N.M., to a prosecutor in his state. The action was required once the committee received a complaint against Domenici from a congressional watchdog group.

.......

[L. Coyote]

4. NYT: For Cheney, Political Toll May Follow Libby Verdict

kskiska Tue Mar-06-07 08:43 PM

NYT: A Judgment on Cheney Is Still to Come
DISCUSS - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2757870

WASHINGTON, March 6 — In legal terms, the jury has spoken in the Libby case. In political terms, Dick Cheney is still awaiting a judgment.

For weeks, Washington watched, mesmerized, as the trial of I. Lewis Libby Jr. cast Vice President Cheney, his former boss, in the role of puppeteer, pulling the strings in a covert public relations campaign to defend the Bush administration’s case for war in Iraq and discredit a critic.

=======

For Cheney, Political Toll May Follow Libby Verdict
By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG
Published: March 7, 2007
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/07/washington/07cheney.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

WASHINGTON, March 6 — In legal terms, the jury has spoken in the Libby case. In political terms, Dick Cheney is still awaiting a judgment.
.........

[L. Coyote]

6. VIDEO: Impeachment? A Forum w/ Ray McGovern et.al.

Hissyspit Sat Mar-10-07 03:14 AM
VIDEO: Impeachment? A Forum w/ Ray McGovern, Dave Lindorff, David Swanson, Others
DISCUSS: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x382578

http://www.democrats.com/node/12249

Impeachment? A Forum With John Judge, Dave Lindorff, David Swanson, Ray McGovern, Pete Perry
Submitted by davidswanson on March 10, 2007 - 1:57am. Impeachment
Open for Videos shot March 9, 2007, in Washington DC by William Hughes

[EFerrari]

5. LTTE: Impeach Dick Cheney

Impeach Dick Cheney


March 10. 2007 6:01AM
Cheney doesn't resign very soon, he should be impeached. He misled President Bush, the Congress, and the American people with his lies about Saddam's non-existent WMDs and links with al-Qaeda.

It's now clear what happened after the administration, then under Cheney's thumb, ignored Ambassador Wilson's report disproving the bogus claim about Iraq buying Nigerian uranium. Cheney wanted to use that phony claim to justify invading Iraq.

So Wilson went public with the truth. Cheney had a fit and then set out to punish Wilson by unlawfully revealing that Wilson's wife was a CIA agent. That's treason, folks.

http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070310/EDITORIALS02/70309038

[EFerrari]

7. LTTE: Forget Fence Viewers (VT)

Forget fence viewers

Published: Saturday, March 10, 2007
By Sally Pollak
Free Press Staff Writer

The number is 37 and counting, said Dan DeWalt, a woodworker and musician who lives in Newfane.

DeWalt, 50, was talking Wednesday about the tally of Vermont towns that voted at town meeting to impeach President Bush and Vice President Cheney.

Across the state, at forums where talk is typically of fence viewers and fire engines, the hot topic on a cold day was firing the president.

"Now that this thing has hit, in all these towns, the press has gone, 'I guess this might involve more than one maniac guy running around to 37 town meetings around the state,'" said DeWalt, a selectman and grassroots organizer of the impeachment campaign. He's lived in southern Vermont for about 30 years.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070310/LIVING/703100326

(What the heck is a fence viewer? :) )

[L. Coyote]

8. Subpoena Dick by David Swanson

babylonsister Sat Mar-10-07 09:06 AM

David Swanson: Subpoena Dick
DISCUSS: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x267819

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/5996

Subpoena Dick by David Swanson

I've spoken at impeachment forums, debates, rallies, strategy meetings, and workshops, but tonight's event in Washington, D.C., will be the first I've spoken at since the Vice President's Chief of Staff was convicted for lying to protect him.

.........

[L. Coyote]

9. ROB KEZELIS: "The guilty verdict came in, and it was Fitzmas in March ..."

The Pulse of America - Code Red, or Cold Blue?
Friday, 09 March 2007 - http://www.capitolhillblue.com/cm/content/view/203/162/

By ROB KEZELIS

Sometimes it is prudent to step back from the daily grind, review recent events, and take a good, hard, cold look at what has been happening around the country.

....

Scooter Libby

The guilty verdict came in, and it was Fitzmas in March. The right wing was up early, with the Wall Street Journal leading the charge. Ignoring their hypocrisy over obstruction of justice when applied to the Clintons, the call for a pardon was immediate and well organized. The fact remains, though, Cheney's Cheney lied, misled, and concocted facts in an effort to protect the White House' and Darth Cheney's role in outing a spy, and protecting its lies about Iraq.

Their puppet-like, orchestrated response is amusing, but I suspect that America is getting tired of the tune. As the true impact of Scooter's verdict becomes more clear, people will wake up to the fact that Iraq is not only an unnecessary disaster, but a quagmire that should never have been.

..... more....

[EFerrari]

10. Democracy at risk, ACLU head warns

Democracy at risk, ACLU head warns
By Benning W. De La Mater, Berkshire Eagle Staff

Friday, March 09
PITTSFIELD — Tactics sold to the American public as safety-ensuring measures for the fight against terrorism have chiseled away at civil liberties and threaten citizens' Constitutional rights and rights of privacy.

So says Carol Rose, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Massachusetts, who spoke twice at Berkshire Community College yesterday.

Rose, a former New York Times reporter and First Amendment lawyer, cited domestic spying, the Patriot Acts, and the Military Commissions Act as tools used to strip away privileges guaranteed by the Bill of Rights.

"There's a threat being waged against our checks and balances — the cornerstones of our democracy," Rose said.

http://www.berkshireeagle.com/headlines/ci_5392356

[EFerrari]

12. Charles Karel Bouley: Pardon Me? (HuffPo)

I truly thought I had seen it all and that I was a pretty good judge of the underhanded hypocritical maneuvers of those on the right but the Libby trial really has taken the cake. Before the gavel even fell on the verdicts, which, by the way, were guilty on four out of five charges, before the penalty phase even began, right-wingers were calling for a Presidential pardon.
Jurors from the case were being interviewed being asked if they would mind if he was pardoned. Suddenly, pardon entered the picture in the saga of Scooter.

And my blood boiled. I am not ashamed to say that I love Bill Clinton as a President and a person. I consider him to be one of the greatest Presidents of all time. I also consider what those on the right did to him over sex to be a national disgrace that we will have to bear for years to come. While it was going on I took great heat from those that listened to my radio show as I supported Clinton and denounced those on a witch hunt. The right countered, saying it was not a witch hunt, it was about justice. He lied under oath and that is not to be taken lightly. Therefore, he must be punished, to the FULLEST extent of the law, which meant impeachment. Impeachment. Our current President has done so much more damage to our nation than Bill Clinton and he remains unimpeached. But Republicans said yes, we must impeach Clinton, he lied to a Grand Jury, he lied under oath. It was not partisan. It was not a political hatchet job on a great man. Oh no, it was a necessary bit of justice to be doled out.

Well, how can I put this gently, LIARS. You are nothing but a bunch of two-faced, opportunistic, scum-sucking liars. Anyone that thinks Libby should be pardoned is, in fact, a traitor to the United States of America, as is Libby and his boss Dick. Guilty of treason and while they are not charged with it nor convicted, they both should be.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/charles-karel-bouley/pardon-me_b_43019.html

[EFerrari]

14. Greenwald: FBI's lawbreaking is tied directly to President

Glenn Greenwald
Friday March 9, 2007 08:57 EST


The FBI's lawbreaking is tied directly to President Bush

(updated below - updated again - Update III)

Multiple media outlets are focusing on the unsurprising story that the FBI seems to have been abusing its powers under the Patriot Act to issue so-called "national security letters" (NSLs), whereby the FBI is empowered to obtain a whole array of privacy-infringing records without any sort of judicial oversight or subpoena process. In particular, the FBI has failed to comply with the legal obligations imposed by Congress, when it re-authorized the Patriot Act in early 2006, which required the FBI to report to Congress on the use of these letters.

That the FBI is abusing its NSL power is entirely unsurprising (more on that below), but the real story here -- and it is quite significant -- has not even been mentioned by any of these news reports. The only person (that I've seen) to have noted the most significant aspect of these revelations is Silent Patriot at Crooks & Liars, who very astutely recalls that the NSL reporting requirements imposed by Congress were precisely the provisions which President Bush expressly proclaimed he could ignore when he issued a "signing statement" as part of the enactment of the Patriot Act's renewal into law. Put another way, the law which the FBI has now been found to be violating is the very law which George Bush publicly declared he has the power to ignore.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/03/09/fbi/index.html?source=rss

[L. Coyote]

15. THE PEOPLE V. RICHARD CHENEY

Resolved, that Richard B. Cheney, vice president of the United States, should be impeached for high crimes and misdemeanors and that these articles of impeachment be submitted to the American people

GQ, March 2007 - http://men.style.com/gq/features/full?id=content_5402

When the Founding Fathers crafted the U.S. Constitution, they wanted to be sure that the president, vice president, and other ranking officials could be evicted more easily than the British monarchy. To ensure that the process would be swift and certain, they made it simple: Only two conditions must be met. First, a majority of the House of Representatives must agree on a set of charges; then, two-thirds of the Senate must agree to convict. After that, there is no legal wrangling, no appeal to a higher authority, no reversal on technical grounds. There is not even a limit on what the charges may be. As the Constitution describes it, the cause may be “treason, bribery, and other high crimes and misdemeanors,” but even these were left deliberately vague; as Gerald Ford once pointed out while still serving in the House of Representatives, the only real definition of an “impeachable offense” is “whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history.”

To the credit of this nation, despite the relative ease of impeachment, only seventeen officials have sunk to such ignominious depths that the process has been invoked. The reasons for impeachment have ranged from the outrageous to the banal: from putting political enemies in jail (Judge James H. Peck, 1830) to cheating on taxes (Judge Harry E. Claiborne, 1986); from being rude to Congress (“unmindful of the harmony and courtesies which ought to exist and be maintained between the executive and legislative branches,” President Andrew Johnson, 1868) to being a drunkard (“a man of loose morals and intemperate habits,” Judge John Pickering, 1803). One president was even impeached for having the good taste to keep his sex life private (concealing “the nature and details of his relationship with a subordinate Government employee,” President William Jefferson Clinton, 1998).


.....more ...
In the case of George W. Bush, there may be any number of reasons not to add an eighteenth name

[L. Coyote]

16. IMPEACH BUSH CHENEY = Links to activism here:

Links to activism here:
http://www.impeachbushcheney.net/

"If you are interested in helping organize public impeachment meetings in your community, please join our mailing list. We will not share your email address with anyone without your permission. Questions and/or comments about our efforts can be directed to [e-mail]..."

[L. Coyote]

17. Unimpeached Bush and Cheney are "clearing, holding and building"

pat_k Fri Mar-09-07 02:25 PM
DISCUSSION: message = http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x378693


Unimpeached Bush and Cheney are "clearing, holding and building" their way to a Unitary Authoritarian Executive with unbounded power.

They are playing for keeps, which is WHY they are breaking the Constitution in plain sight.

Bush and Cheney do something we have forbidden, claim it is not forbidden, and dare Members of Congress to stop them. When Members of Congress refuse to impeach -- the ONLY thing capable of stopping them -- Bush and Cheney "hold and build": **Hey America, told you it wasn't forbidden. Now, let us get on with clearing habeas (or whatever takes our fancy) out of our way.**

Members of Congress who are refusing to publicly demand impeachment are in full retreat, no ifs and or buts. Anything short of a demand for impeachment -- resolutions, legislation, finger-wagging investigations, hearings -- is surrender.

....more....

[L. Coyote]

19. Ten Reasons to Impeach George Bush and Dick Cheney

10 strong reasons to impeach
Submitted by Haydesigner on Sat, 03/10/2007 - 1:02pm. ::
http://dev.chaosdigest.com/?q=node/664

I was going to truncate each of these points to make it quicker to read, but I realized that each point was not only very important in its entirety, but surprisingly free of any fluff or filler:

Ten Reasons to Impeach George Bush and Dick Cheney

I ask Congress to impeach President Bush and Vice President Cheney for the following reasons:
1. Violating the United Nations Charter by launching an illegal "War of Aggression" against Iraq without cause, using fraud to sell the war to Congress and the public, misusing government funds to begin bombing without Congressional authorization, and subjecting our military personnel to unnecessary harm, debilitating injuries, and deaths.
2. Violating U.S. and international law by authorizing the torture of thousands of captives, resulting in dozens of deaths, and keeping prisoners hidden from the International Committee of the Red Cross.
3. Violating the Constitution by arbitrarily detaining Americans, legal residents, and non-Americans, without due process, without charge, and without access to counsel.
4. Violating the Geneva Conventions by targeting civilians, journalists, hospitals, and ambulances, and using illegal weapons, including white phosphorous, depleted uranium, and a new type of napalm.
5. Violating U.S. law and the Constitution through widespread wiretapping of the phone calls and emails of Americans without a warrant.
6. Violating the Constitution by using "signing statements" to defy hundreds of laws passed by Congress.
7. Violating U.S. and state law by obstructing honest elections in 2000, 2002, 2004, and 2006.
8. Violating U.S. law by using paid propaganda and disinformation, selectively and misleadingly leaking classified information, and exposing the identity of a covert CIA operative working on sensitive WMD proliferation for political retribution.
9. Subverting the Constitution and abusing Presidential power by asserting a "Unitary Executive Theory" giving unlimited powers to the President, by obstructing efforts by Congress and the Courts to review and restrict Presidential actions, and by promoting and signing legislation negating the Bill of Rights and the Writ of Habeas Corpus.
10. Gross negligence in failing to assist New Orleans residents after Hurricane Katrina, in ignoring urgent warnings of an Al Qaeda attack prior to Sept. 11, 2001, and in increasing air pollution causing global warming.

[L. Coyote]

20. Will Congress Continue Pimping for the White House?

Will Congress Continue Pimping for the White House?
http://www.progress.org/2007/tanos05.htm

by Ben Tanosborn
Nothing seems to have changed under the Capitol’s dome. Last November’s election results, although producing a small majority for Democrats in the House – but leaving the Senate at the merci of a hawkish Likudian, Joe Lieberman – were not a mandate to institute change; maybe some light investigative opportunities to keep legislators busy and in the public eye, but definitely not change. Not on the mess in Iraq; or the one in Afghanistan; or on a foreign policy that has set the United States too often apart from the community of nations , putting a country once liked and respected in great disfavor.

.....

But why would anyone expect anything else when 90 percent of the legislators in the 107th were renewing their vows in the 110th exercising what they apparently believe to be their birthright to life tenure in politics?

.....

Of course, we could resort to impeachment to get these dictators ousted. But we don’t. No better time than the present for Congress to prove to the nation that they are in control, respectful of the duties and responsibilities assigned to them in the Constitution.

......

[L. Coyote]

21. Former N.Y. Rep. Elizabeth Holtzman: "Bush should be impeached..."

LECTURE at Princeton
Former N.Y. Rep.: Bush should be impeached

By Peter Walkingshaw - Princetonian Contributor
http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2007/03/09/news/17671.shtml

Former Democratic congresswoman and New York City comptroller Elizabeth Holtzman outlined four charges against the Bush administration yesterday which, she said, constitute grounds for President Bush's impeachment.

Holtzman, who represented New York's 16th district from 1973 to 1981, argued against the president in her lecture, "George W. Bush: High Crimes and Misdemeanors?" to a crowded Dodds Auditorium.

Her charges against Bush included wiretapping U.S. citizens without a warrant, lying to the American people in the months prior to the war in Iraq, denying Geneva Convention protections to "enemy combatants" in the war on terror and failing to properly mobilize relief efforts in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.

.... more ....

[L. Coyote]

22. Killing the Constitution by Ben Heine / MWC NEWS

Killing the Constitution by Ben Heine / MWC NEWS
http://mwcnews.net/content/view/13114&Itemid=1

The Bush-Cheney imperialist, neo-liberal, neo-conservative government, is arguably the apex of American hubris, an apex of demagoguery. Of course, one cannot dismiss the pride and arrogance of past administrations.

President McKinley stated the United States must “civilize and Christianize” the Philippines. Woodrow Wilson, much-admired president and unabashed white supremacist, architect of ‘Wilsonian idealism’, occupied Haiti and the Dominican Republic, seized Vera Cruz, and sent American troops into European battlefields. During the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, America claimed the inalienable right to guide, either subtly or by force, the destiny of sovereign nations. Behind the seductive, morally presumptuous, language of freedom and democracy is the unmistakeable odour of imperial self-interest and disdain for autonomy. Determined to advance her narrow economic interests, the United States has worked to overthrow legitimately elected governments around the world . Most recently, we have the fiasco of an illegal invasion of Iraq.

What, in the American psyche, permits governments to engage in illegal activities, all the while proclaiming noble aspirations? The truth is much more sinister.

One mantle of hypocrisy is religion, that much abused font of enlightenment and enslavement, .......

.... more ....

[EFerrari]

23. Kick

[L. Coyote]

25. kick

[Kurovski]

24. K&R.(nt)

[L. Coyote]

26. "... how many smoking guns will it take to impeach this president? "

He May Not Be Houdini, But...
Jayne Lyn Stahl
Saturday, 10 March 2007
http://www.atlanticfreepress.com/content/view/1150/81/

He may not be Houdini, but how many smoking guns will it take to impeach this president? While it's downright decent of Federal Bureau of Investigation Director Robert Mueller to take responsibility for the fact that the FBI "broke the law," and "under-reported" to Congress the number of National Security Letters it used by, oh, a mere 20% (AP),there is one daunting, and unavoidable question here: who appointed the prominent San Francisco attorney to the helm of an increasingly unbiquitous governmental agency in the first place? Why, yes, it was the president who, back in 2001,decided upon Mueller to replace then beleaguered Louis Freeh.

But, will the problem be solved by having Mueller step down as Rumsfeld did? Who is at the helm? Is it Mueller? Isn't he just following orders? Wasn't Rumsfeld just following orders, too, or maybe refusing to get with the program?

... more ...

[L. Coyote]

27. Moving On: Mar. 11 Daily Impeachment News:

Mar. 11 Daily Impeachment News:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x388192