Obey admits his words were wrong and has apologized, can we please stop the attacks on this mother?

[Bjorn Against]

David Obey has apologized for his extremely rude comments to a mother whose son's life is in jeopardy because of an illegal war. Obey did the right thing when he apologized, I fully accept that apology and I will not criticize him personally on those remarks any more.

I will however continue to defend this mother because she is still under attack. Even after Obey apologized far too many people continued to suggest that he was right, and the words "liberal idiot" continued to be tossed at this woman who is trying valiantly to end this war.

Can we please recognize that this woman's son is in serious danger, and we need to speak up for her and her son. She is not a "liberal idiot" she is a concerned mother who is doing a great thing for her son, she is going to Congress and trying to save the lives of many people. That is something that should be applauded not ridiculed.

If you watch the video she handled herself very well, she never raised her voice and she never asked any accusatory questions. She simply wanted to request that he vote against the funding for the war. Obey wants to stop the war as well, he simply wanted to go about it in a different way by placing amendments within the supplemental that he hopes would stop the war. We can debate whose idea is better, and that is exactly what we should do. We don't need to be tossing the words "liberal idiot" at anyone who has different ideas as to how to go about ending the war, instead we have to work together to come up with a common solution.

Obey has come clean and admitted his choice of words was wrong so please can we all accept Obey's apology and also extend our hand to this mother so we can try to come together to stop this war?

[Clintonista2]

1. You act as if Obey did something wrong...

I watched the video, the woman had no clue what she was talking about. Obey has been a VERY VOCAL critic of this war since the beginning, and had this woman been informed, she would have realized that Obey was the last person that needed attacking.

[Bjorn Against]

6. She did not attack him, and Obey apologized for his treatment of her

She has every right to lobby our members of Congress, and she was in no way hostile at all. No one is saying that Obey has not been a vocal critic of the war, we are simply saying he should not call mother's whose sons are being sent off to die "liberal idiots".

And Obey APOLOGIZED. He KNOWS he was wrong, why do people need to keep defending the guy's words when he is not even defending them?

[Donnachaidh]

8. and you can say the FILMING was NOT a setup?

Please.Spare.Me.

This group set the man up. MAYBE she was not aware of that FACT. But they STILL owe Mr. Obey a very PUBLIC APOLOGY.

[Bjorn Against]

13. I don't think there is anything wrong with videotaping a member of Congress

It was not a setup, if Obey had reacted calmly and rationally like a member of Congress is supposed to act that video would have gotten absolutely zero attention. From what I understand this woman has videotaped many members of Congress, most of whom have been Republicans.

Now it is certainly a legitimate question to ask why this video has gotten so much attention when her videos of Republicans have gotten none, but the fact is she was not going after Obey any differently than she has gone after other members of Congress in the past. You can not point out a single incidence in that video in which she raised her voice or attacked Obey in any way, he was the one who blew up and he apologized.

There is no need to defend comments which even Obey admits went too far.

[Donnachaidh]

15. BEHIND his BACK was NOT a setup?

Tell me, what turnip truck did YOU fall off last week?

Could the behind his back move have been done because it is ILLEGAL to film members of Congress WITHOUT his permission? The camera ALWAYS stayed out of HIS field of vision -- WHY IS THAT?

Perhaps because they KNEW they were doing something that could get THEM busted?

PLEASE don't piss up my back and tell me it's raining. The EVIDENCE of the SETUP is on TAPE. The GRASSROOTS tape.

[Bjorn Against]

17. Why is it illegal to videotape members of Congress in a public building?

The only reason for that law seems to be to protect members of Congress from having their words held against them.

I think that if there is a law against this it is a bad law, and I would consider it a legitimate act of civil disobedience to violate that bad law.

They did not do anything that should have caused Obey to call them "liberal idiots", I am not going to blame them for his words.

Obey apologized though so I forgive him, but I am not going to attack a woman who is trying to protect her son for the simple act of questioning a member of Congress.

[Donnachaidh]

20. It doesn't MATTER -- it's a LAW

And that group BROKE THE LAW, and I expect they were FULLY AWARE they did so. It's on the TAPE.

This sort of childish bullshit makes it THAT MUCH HARDER for the average person -- say, all those OTHER Mothers with kids heading back to Iraq -- to have ACCESS for THEIR pleas.

All that GRANDSTANDING did exactly the OPPOSITE the supposed intention was. Congradulations for massively fucking things up for EVERYONE ELSE.

I'll bet the next Mother who CANNOT GAIN ACCESS will be SOOOOO pleased about THAT.

[Bjorn Against]

25. Sorry, if they can videotape us without our knowledge we should be able to videotape them

There are hidden cameras all over the place whenever you venture outside your home. We are videotaped in public buildings all the time, and they usually don't point out the cameras to you. I don't think members of Congress should be exempt from the same type of scrutiny ordinary Americans face every day.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bjorn Against]

32. I need to grow up? At least I am not calling you a "moron"

You know they always say that when a person has to resort to name calling they have lost the debate. Your debate tactics have been reduced to calling me names, that means the debate is over you lost and you have now become the only person to grace my ignore list.

[demrabble]

37. I Suppose You Should Be Happy that the other poster didn't call

I suppose you should be happy that the other poster did not call you an "idiot liberal".

Isn't it odd how people attack the mother for "confronting" Rep. Obey, but semm to have no problem with Obey calling the mother an "idiot liberal".

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

51. 2 Reasons:

1. She didn't just confront. She refused to listen to reason and showed a grand ignorance of the reality of the situation.

2. Though probably a bit harsher language than necessary, she did come off like an 'idiot liberal'. She just did. Maybe that's not who she is in reality but it's definitely how she came across. I hope in the future she'll open her mind to the realities of the situation rather than just her way or no way, though her way is simply irrational and absurd.

[demrabble]

54. What You Call An "Idiot Liberal", I Call

What you call an "idiot liberal", I call a concerned mother who has a son who has served in Iraq and who is concerned about the possiblity of him having to go there again.

I think it is terrible that such passion and concern is labeled "idiocy".

I also think that Rep. Obey refused -- or was at least unwilling -- to listen to her concerns.

He just wanted her to accept his "wisdom".

She wanted the war to end now.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

55. With All Due Respect,

Can you possibly point me to the logical stream that would deem that just because one is a mother with a son serving in the armed services that said mother cannot also at the same time be an idiot?

[demrabble]

56. Huh?

Of course, there is no "logical stream" that would "deem" that just because one is a mother with a son serving in the armed services that said mother cannot also be at the same time an idiot.

What a silly question.

You, however, said that the mother involved was a "liberal idiot".

I said that I saw a mother.

To be clear, I did not see an idiot.

[Tsiyu]

73. Have you given this woman an IQ test or something?

Are you the Bill Frist of online intelligence testing?

And do you now or have you ever had a child serving in Iraq?

[Bjorn Against]

74. "Are you the Bill Frist of online intellegence testing?"

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

Thank you that was one of the best lines I have seen on DU in a while, it fits so well.

[Tsiyu]

75. De Nada

:)

I had a son over there - on multiple trips - and there is no way I could show the spite and enmity toward this mother that some others have shown. It was the most terrifying experience of my life.

[Madspirit]

78. I love your reply...

**Are you the Bill Frist of online intelligence testing?**

That is hilarious. Right on.



**And do you now or have you ever had a child serving in Iraq?**

Tends to make someone a little bit over the edge doesn't it. I love your question. An elected official or just a compassionate human, might see that, one would think.
Lee

[countingbluecars]

34. My, my,

you are very skilled at name calling. Who needs to grow up?

[demrabble]

35. Perhaps Obey Should Have Them Arrested.

I mean, if what they did was illegal.

Then shouldn't Obey insist that those criminal lawbreakers be arrested for having the nerve to videotape a member of congress in the halls of a public building.

Why, with laws like that, is a good thing we don't live in a tyrannical society.

[Vidar]

38. One more unjust law to shield the pols from accountability.

[bluedog]

27. think this is the conduct rules page

You may not videotape, film, or record audio:

A. in the House and Senate Chambers.
B. in the lobbies of the House and Senate Chambers (except the recording of audio at the
designated radio table in the Speaker's Lobby).
C. while walking in front of or behind an interview subject inside the Congressional
complex. This safety rule will be strictly enforced by the Capitol Police.

D. in any area that will halt the flow of vehicular or pedestrian traffic including sidewalks
and driveways.
E. in areas where Congressional regulations prohibit broadcast coverage such as House and
Senate restaurants and cafeterias, the second and third floor corridors outside the Senate
and House Chambers, areas closed to the public, etc.

much more at link.....all kinds of media rules....


http://www.senate.gov/galleries/radiotv/rules.htm

[Donnachaidh]

31. C would cover the illegality of that tape.

Thanks for posting it.

[demrabble]

39. The Rules Seem To Apply to Reporters, Etc. NOT to Individual Citizens

The Rules at the link you provide seem to apply to reporters and members of the media.

I don't see where they apply to individual citizens.

[bluedog]

42. he was trying to get her to talk in his office......

from transcipt:

David Obey: Let's take a look... (pointing to office)

[mmonk]

72. How dare she! Everybody knows

people automatically blow up and call people names if they bring along a camera. That nasty woman her! If she hadn't brought that camera, she could be treated differently! She knew what she was doing!

[demrabble]

30. He Did.

Obey did something wrong.

He has seen that what he did was wrong.

He acknowledged that what he did was wrong.

He apologized for what he did that was wrong.

Surely you see that.

[zulchzulu]

2. She had no idea that Obey was the sponsor of the Supplementary part...

...of the bill that would indeed help her. She was clueless. Go to the video at around 3:20. She was surprised that he was trying to do what she was protesting to him about.

She needs to apologize to him. He already apologized to her.

[Donnachaidh]

3. Obey deserves an apology for the secret videotaping

While I have no problems with the mother, I DO have problems with a group that would utilize Rovian tactics to embarrass a Congressman.

[BayCityProgressive]

4. She should have known the facts

before talking to him, and he should not have talked down to her the way he did. Not everyone knows how things work as well as people on DU. She is just trying to protect her kid. he could have shown more respect and so could she.

[Donnachaidh]

7. Did you actually READ the news report on this?

Obey had people doing sit-ins in his office. He was getting stopped in halls. All the while he was working on his bill. Tell me, could YOU work with this sort of pressure-cooker bullshit and still be civil? The IRONIC part is these people who were throwning themselves around the Congress as *activists* are from his OWN party.

READ the newsreport AND the transcript. This Mom did NOT know what she was talking about, and neither did the kid who helped tagteam Obey. And filming the man behind his back WITHOUT his knowledge was REPREHENSIBLE. This group should apply to FOXNEWS for jobs - they'd be welcomed there.

It's the sort of nasty maneuver the RW would use. Others have concluded that perhaps we need to turn a spotlight on this group - to see exactly where THEIR politics ACTUALLY is.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

53. !

:applause: :applause: :applause:

:toast:

[proud2BlibKansan]

68. It was not a secret videotaping

Obey saw the camera and knew he was being taped.

[Venus Dog]

5. This whole incident has played out very strangely

Obey should have been, to my knowledge, one of the least likely Congress people to be confronted in this way regarding the war. I'm also a mother of a soldier in Iraq and understand her position as well. But, Obey would be the last person I would have confronted. There are so many more in Congress who truly do not care or are on the take. I've never known Obey to be either one of these and, if fact, believe that because he does care, he, along with a few others, have been under a significant amount of stress about trying to do the best thing. That's just my opinion and why I feel it was so strange that she went after him. :shrug:

[Bjorn Against]

10. She did not "go after him"

She was LOBBYING, that is what she does. Lobbyists don't just talk to their enemies, they talk to their allies as well. If any lobbyist would ever tell you that they would never talk to their potential allies then they are not a very a good lobbyist. Maybe she should have known about the amendment he was trying to put in the supplemental, but considering the lack coverage that amendment has gotten it is understandable that she might not be aware. She is not an idiot, she is a concerned mother.

Obey apologized, I do not understand why so many people feel the need to defend Obey for comments he is not even defending himself.

[Donnachaidh]

12. Lobbying with a FILM CREW?

You guys may want to RUN from THAT little bit of evidence -- but that YOUTUBE video is going to continue to bite your *reasoning* square in the ass every time.

And RIGHTFULLY so.

[Bjorn Against]

14. Would you be upset if a Republican was video taped?

I am consistent in my principles, I have no problem with people videotaping members of Congress making remarks about public policy. I don't care if it is a Republican or Democrat, if they are going to make a statement on public policy in the US Capitol and it gets captured on tape I am not going to blame the film crew.

[Donnachaidh]

16. in the manner this was done -- YES

It is ILLEGAL to tape members of Congress in that building WITHOUT their knowledge OR permission. PERIOD.

Don't expect others to validate an ILLEGAL setup of a Congressman who is on OUR side. It's ALL on the tape.

[Madspirit]

58. Wow

Is it illegal for the government to tape me without my knowledge or permission?

Sounds like they don't want to be caught with their pants down. Too bad. I'm all for guerilla tactics. They can run but they can't hide. I don't care if it's the law or not. BFD. This is one of the many ways the government hides from oversight.
Lee

[proud2BlibKansan]

69. The film crew had just met Tina that morning

and asked to film her while she lobbied. This wasn't a stunt, as you continue to claim.

What you may want to run from is the fact that you have continued to criticize a citizen (and a military mom) who has every right to talk to congress members and to ask them to stop supporting the war. Yet you think that is wrong. You seem to forget that we do indeed have the right to hold our representatives accountable and they do represent US. You may want to run from your twisted view of our democratic process.

Another DUer thinks Tina should "sit down and shut up" and others seem to think that the Dems should be treated with kid gloves and be allowed to continue to do nothing to end the war.

And in spite of what you Obey supporters keep claiming, he is certainly NOT working to end the war if he is voting to fund it. That is a no brainer.

This used to be a progressive website. This weekend, it is more like a right wing war mongering rag site.

[Jonathan50]

9. Didn't he imply she was smoking dope too?

That seems like an even bigger insult than "idiot liberals".

[Bjorn Against]

11. Yes he did, but he apologized

I am accepting his apology, I simply want other people to stop suggesting that his words were appropriate when even he admits they were not.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. NO! How dare a peasant question one of the aristocracy?!!

Why, you'd think it was in the constitution or something the way that nobody was acting towards one of the deciders of her child's fate!

[Donnachaidh]

21. try reading the complete story

This is being spun very hard on DU.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. I saw the tape. Bigshot shouts down petitioner.

"Congress shall make no law...abridging the right of the people to..petition the government for redress of grievances."

Even if it makes certain bigshots uncomfortable and testy.

[Donnachaidh]

24. did you know they were filming him ILLEGALLY?

The film crew did - they made sure to stay BEHIND him during this fiasco. And please read the article about what Obey was dealing with in his offices.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

26. Since when is it illegal to film a congressman while he's doing the peoples' business.

Or, are they so exalted that they need not be observed while performing their function?

[Donnachaidh]

29. check the RULES.

Or are you another person that doesn't do RESEARCH?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

52. Well, I'm sure the Great One will have the uppity peasant arrested.

Or, will he?

[Donnachaidh]

66. nice spin -- but Obey doesn't consider his constituents like that.

But they did break the law. And they KNEW they were breaking the law - that's why they kept the camera out of his field of vision.

He probably won't have them arrested. He's on of the GOOD guys. And if these people had done their homework, they would have known that.

And he apologized for the language. So will the ninja activists apologize for setting him UP to look foolish? Because that is what they did, when they loaded the vid at YouTube. Read the transcript. It clearly shows a man trying to answer questions that SHE screwed up (because she hadn't done her research nor did her tagteam partner) and Obey could tell they had NO clue about the bill they asked him to veto. It was HIS bill.

We're supposed to be BETTER than the Republicans. Filming someone behind his back is a FOX technique. And it's obvious they were looking for a certain response - but not the one he gave them.

He's up to his eyes in alligators in Congress, trying to get things done. And then this? I wouldn't be surprized if his door is LOCKED in the future, because of this instance.

I feel sorry for his constituents who have children in Iraq, or have them home in pieces. Because THOSE Moms won't be able to get through to him to talk -- because of this junior high punked video.

Way to go!

[Beaverhausen]

40. They were filming him with a LARGE CAMERA - it wasn't SECRET

I saw the mother on MNSBC this morning, and she said that there was no secret that they were filming him.

She seemed fine with his apology and said she will try again in the future to meet with him.

This whole thing is much ado about nothing.

[riderinthestorm]

45. Micheal Moore in F911 filmed quite a few congresspeople

and none of them appeared to have given him permission (as they ran away from his questions!)

I'm not sure there is a problem with filming congresspeople - even C-span does it in the chambers! There is a whole lot of filming of congresspeople that doesn't appear to have been pre-screened for permissibility.

[Clintonista2]

65. I believe it's only illegal to film them INSIDE the congress building

but I'm not sure.

[senseandsensibility]

19. I'm glad he apologized.

Good on him. As far as any DUer that attacked the mother, I'm glad I missed that.:-(

[bluedog]

22. Question?.what is her name...and what

group was she with?.....Do they allow one to stop people in the halls and ask questions with cameras rolling?..why were cameras there?...did they do this to any GOP senators?.........questions that need answers!

[BayCityProgressive]

33. there have been sit ins of both

Republicans and Democrats. The goal of the sit ins is to stay until the rep. vows to pull troops out of Iraq...they will not leave the offices until the rep signs or they are forced out of the office. They were at Hillary and McCain's offices too. I think it is good. We need to keep the fire under everyones feet...what is more important..dying soldiers and civilians in Iraq or hurting poor overpaid congressmen's feelings? They will get over it..you don't get over being dead.

[omega minimo]

36. Anyone who slams her must not value the right of CITIZENS to lobby legislators

[BayCityProgressive]

41. This is what I was afraid of happening

For some reason when Democrats are elcted the left allows them a blank check. They can do anything and not be punished. If this were a GOP congressman who was caught on tape yelling at a military mom and calling her an idiot liberal this board would be going nuts. Lets not have double standards just because someone has a "D" in front of their name. Remember Bill gave us Welfare Reform, NAFTA, DOMA and a host of other catastrophes and barely a noise was made on the left just because he is a Democrat. Obey is a good guy and the mom didn't know what she was tlaking about. He has apologized and it's over.

[omega minimo]

43. "What she was talking about" was her suicidal son being deployed for a 3rd tour

Something only someone who's lived it can really "know."

She presents herself in a professional mmanner. She is a former "corporate" professional, not political, "left" or activist until her personal story consumed her life.

Her son has been on 2 tours in Iraq and is up for a 3rd. He is suicidal. She is devoting her life to lobbying legislators, which citizens have a right to do. Acting like she was in the wrong here is a convenient way of discouraging regular folks from thinking they can do the same thing.

Whetever his credentials, the legislator doesn't have the right to go off on someone in the hallway and throw a hissyfit. HE was acting as it regular people are out of line by DARING to approach the VIPs who run the country.

Wrong. If HE is a professional, he knows how to handle himself like one.

note: I have not been in the threads on this topic and am not going to have other people's arguments applied to me. I heard the woman interviewed on the radio and believe she-- or any of us-- have the right to lobby in the offices or the halls of state and federal legislatures, just like the monied interests running the country.

"Obey is a good guy and the mom didn't know what she was tlaking about."

The mom knew what she was talking about and Obey was out of line.

The dirty secret he let slip is that legislators would like to think that We The People DON'T have the right, the credentials or the credibility to talk to them face to face.

[demrabble]

46. More About The Dirty Secret He Let Slip

"The dirty secret he let slip is that legislators would like to think that We The People DON'T have the right, the credentials or the credibility to talk to them face to face."

The other part of this dirty secret is that legislators think that people who disagree with them or their particular approach to getting things done are idiots.

[omega minimo]

61. yup

"The other part of this dirty secret is that legislators think that people who disagree with them or their particular approach to getting things done are idiots."

Well put. Some of them may think those who disagree with them are "idiots" but many of them have the good sense not to advertise the fact.

[Justice Is Comin]

44. The mother had passion but little understanding

of facts. Obey tried to point out to her he was not disagreeing with the overall point but he had to accomplish the same result by outsmarting the system.

He told her, "we don't have the votes, how the hell can we pass a bill if we don't have the votes?" That should have gotten through to her. As long as there are republicans in the Senate, they will be licking Bush's ass until the day he goes off to Leavenworth and Obey has to deal with that.

The frustration of repeatedly trying to get them to understand that was the catalyst for a needed jolt of reality. Especially when it was his bill that is going to put the republicans in a no-win situation either way they go. That is the way they played the game for six years. Now David Obey and John Murtha have put them in their own vice and it is the first step to forcing them to vote for what they know is political suicide if they don't.

She should have stopped chiding him and started encouraging him. She didn't want answers and she didn't understand that if she got what she was asking, it would never have seen the light of day in the Senate.

Nobody is more passionate for the same end result as Obey and she should have finally picked up on that.

[demrabble]

47. So, In Other Words, This Mother Is a "Liberal Idiot"

She was just being idiotic in not seeing the wisdom that Rep. Obey was trying to communicate to her, I guess.

Those Congresscritters -- we just need to trust their judgment.

Because they are always right.

And the rest of us are just idiots.

:sarcasm:

[Justice Is Comin]

48. When you keep yelling at somebody

to cut more off of a board because it's too short--YES !!

When she reflects on it, she may come to the same conclusion. It's the republicans slithering around in those halls she should be venting those rightful aspersions. Not the man who is doing something for the first time in six years to accomplish the result she and the whole damn intelligent two thirds of the voting public has just given him a mandate to finally do.

[demrabble]

49. Only One Person Was Yelling In The Halls Of Congress

Only one person was yelling in the halls of Congress outside Rep. Obey's office.

It was not the mother.

It was Rep Obey.

The mother was polite and respectful.

The Member of Congress was disrepectful and rude.

[omega minimo]

63. Yup-- why are people defending his hissyfit? Maybe they think they

don't have any right to lobby either and think the powerful have the right to shout us down. Our representatives!!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

50. Her Intent Deserves Respect. Her Actions Don't.

Of course she means well and of course I hope her son returns safely. But the way she is going about this is nonsensical and almost irrational, and from the video it was apparent she has not a clue what she's talking about. Maybe she should educate herself further on process before continuing. That's not an attack on her, it's a reality. The things she was saying were ridiculous and almost delusional as they relate to the reality of getting this war to end. If she wants it to end then she's going to have to be willing to listen to reason and learn the facts of the matter, rather than refusing to acknowledge the reality and stubbornly sticking to ignorant premise. She's not helping herself by her actions; she's hurting herself.

And I'm proud of Rep. Obey for apologizing, as he did let her get the better of his emotions and he obviously recognized that he was a bit harsher than necessary. But I still respect the hell out of him for saying it like it is to begin with.

God bless 'em both. I'll absolutely extend my hand to her. But she needs to be willing to listen and seek advice on what a better strategy might be going forward than the one she employed yesterday.

[karlrschneider]

57. More to the point, she's hurting her own son and every one of us who want this goddamn "war"

to end. You don't get rid of cockroaches by shooting honeybees.

[demrabble]

59. I Want To Get Rid Of Cockroaches. BUT I Also Want to End the War

I also want to get rid of cockroaches.

But of even more importance to me (and to the mother who asked Rep. Obey some questions) is ending the war.

I would prefer that the honeybees spend less time worrying about getting rid of the cockroaches and more time worrying about ending the war.

[karlrschneider]

60. One of us is failing miserably to grasp the other's metaphor.

:eyes:

[omega minimo]

62. how is she doing that?

"she's hurting her own son and every one of us who want this goddamn "war" to end. "

[walldude]

64. For a guy who voted for the Patriot Act

before reading what was in it, should he really be criticizing liberals who don't know what's in every bill? I'm glad he apologized he was wrong and that's it, time to move on.

[BlooInBloo]

67. She was mistaken on some of the facts, but presented herself respectfully...

... he was essentially right on the fact, but presented himself poorly.

That's a volatile mixture for onlooker-reports.

[AshevilleGuy]

70. You know, I feel sorry for both of them...

Both Rep. Obey and Mrs. Richards; both have been pushed beyond civility. Obey KNOWS that the votes to stop the war are not there yet, and there is NOTHING he can do to get them - not wishing and hoping, not expecting that if you cross your fingers and sing a song the Congress will turn into a 30s musical and magically the votes appear; not pretending that if you work and work at it they will come - not yet. He has been pushed too far.

Mrs. Richards is desperate to save her son from going to the civil war madness that is Iraq; she will do anything to try and change things, but it isn't happening and perhaps she is not thinking clearly. My mother would have done the same for me during Vietnam. She has been pushed too far.

And it's not either of their faults - the FAULT lies with the criminals bush and cheney and those in Congress who still push this filthy illegal WAR!!!! THEY are to blame for pushing two decent sincere people (and many others) to this seeming incivility. Let's put the blame for this at the doorstep of which it belongs!!! I wish Obey and Mrs Richards peace, if they can find it.

[LittleClarkie]

71. Aside from his apology for his unprofessional behavior, that doesn't make the rest

of what he had to say wrong. And being the mother of a soldier doesn't automatically make one right either.

[genie_weenie]

76. We must trust our leaders

they have access to more knowledge than the average person,
they are more experinced and versed in the byzantine intracties of the governmental process,
they are working hard to make sure they win it's so difficult to not appear
they have been duly elected in a "democratic" selection,
they are under so much strain,
they have been good on other issues,
they can't be filmed without express consent (IT'S A LAW!).

Did I miss any of the excuses?

What a load of clodswallop. Why the heck do we elect anyone if they aren't going to risk their asses and do what is right? Is the precious chance at re-election so much more important than the thousands who are dying every month? Ooooh, I'd better not take a stand, the evil republicans will have Fox Noise paint me as a wimp. I must appear strong and let young men die so that I can aspire to greater offices. What a crock. If an elected official isn't ready to vote to end this war, immediately, He can not claim to be against it.

[kiteinthewind]

77. . nt