Sooo, Shrub says if Congress doesn't give him the $$ he'll find it somewhere

[napi21]

else! Just listening to Karel and he's talking about this.

I thought it was against the law for any funds that were appropriated for one thing to be used for anything else? IH YEA, I forgot, who GAS about the laws!

[PDJane]

1. If you don't know that there has been a secret government

in place since the end of WWII, and that it has only gotten stronger and more clandestine, and that the unitary executive is the final stage of this government, where have you been living?

[Nikki Stone1]

15. Source?

?

[PDJane]

16. Try watching Bill Moyers on UTube.......

He explains it quite adequately.

The sources are too many to mention, and it takes watching the news carefully to figure it out, but it is there, and has been for a long time........starting with the US hiring nazis for the space race and Russian spying.

The military-industrial complex was settled upon as a way to keep the US economy humming in the 1950's. That, by the way is from declassified documents.

This fire has been building for a long time.

[Nikki Stone1]

18. Surely there must be a compilation somewhere.

Video doesn't work so well on my computer

[PDJane]

19. I would point out that these folks aren't exactly

Going to stand up and wave their arms for attention. Most of what is known is known from declassified documents and those obtained under the FOIA.

By my calculations, since WWII, the US has been involved in no less than 73 military or clandestine actions against foreign governments, mostly third world countries and usually in support of dictators. Since the Second World War, the US government has bombed 21 countries: China in 1945-46 and again in 1950-53, Korea in 1950-53, Guatemala in 1954, 1960, and 1967-69, Indonesia in 1958, Vietnam in 1961-73, Congo in 1964, Laos in 1964-73, Peru in 1965, Cambodia in 1969-70, El Salvador throughout the 1980s, Nicaragua throughout the 1980s, Lebanon in 1983-84, Grenada in 1983, Bosnia in 1985, Libya in 1986, Panama in 1989, Iraq in 1991-20??, Sudan in 1998, Former Yugoslavia in 1999, and Afghanistan in 1998 and 2002.(Schnews). This tally takes no account of covert actions meant to destabilize governments, and promises made and not kept to the people who fought on the side of the US. This includes the Hmong, now arriving in the US, decades late. One third of the Hmong, the hill tribe of Viet Nam, were wiped out when the US didn’t keep their promise to help to resettle the fighters in America.


However, the following is a by no means exhaustive list from various sources:

http://thirdworldtraveler.com/Moyers/CIA_TSG.html (this is a written transcript of the Moyers programme)

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4068.htm

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20001113/

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2007/03/cia-operated-secret-prison-in-poland.php

http://www.serendipity.li/cia/stock1.html

http://www.unknownnews.net/secretgovt.html

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CIA/Challenging_System_CTSG.html

http://www.alternet.org/story/41923/

http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_8860.shtml

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/02/26/usint15408.htm

http://www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/index.html

http://www.canongate.net/Lists/WarPoliticsAndWorldAffairs/18SecretArmiesOfTheCIA

http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/foia.html

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/torture/27926prs20070110.html

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/secgov.html

http://news.com.com/The+secret+behind+the+CIAs+venture+capital+arm/2008-1082_3-5728548.html

http://www.counterpunch.org/floyd0828.html

http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/article_2625.shtml

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Challenging+the+Secret+Government:+The+Post-Watergate+Investigations...-a018383057

http://www.cato.org/dailys/7-28-97.html

https://www.cia.gov/csi/studies/winter99-00/art7.html

I also recommend a few books:

Killing Hope: U.S. Military and CIA Interventions Since World War II-Updated Through 2003 by William Blum
Blowback, The Sorrows of Empire, and Nemisis by Chalmers Johnson:
The Pinochet File: A Declassified Dossier On Atrocity And Accountability, Peter Kornbluh
A People's History of the United States: 1492 to Present, Howard Zinn
Fog Facts: Searching for Truth in the Land of Spin by Larry Beinhart
Lost History: Contras, Cocaine, the Press & 'Project Truth by Robert Parry
Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, by John Perkins
Failed States and Hegemony or Survival by Noam Chomsky
and off topic, but not by much, Race Against Time by Stephen Lewis.

[Nikki Stone1]

20. Thank you so much. This is a definite bookmark

Thanks again

[Nikki Stone1]

21. This is chilling

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4068.htm

We had the `public safety program' going throughout Central and Latin America for 26 years, in which we taught them to break up subversion by interrogating people. Interrogation, including torture, the way the CIA taught it. Dan Metrione, the famous exponent of these things, did 7 years in Brazil and 3 in Uruguay, teaching interrogation, teaching torture. He was supposed to be the master of the business, how to apply the right amount of pain, at just the right times, in order to get the response you want from the individual.

They developed a wire. They gave them crank generators, with `U.S. AID' written on the side, so the people even knew where these things came from. They developed a wire that was strong enough to carry the current and fine enough to fit between the teeth, so you could put one wire between the teeth and the other one in or around the genitals and you could crank and submit the individual to the greatest amount of pain, supposedly, that the human body can register.

Now how do you teach torture? Dan Metrione: `I can teach you about torture, but sooner or later you'll have to get involved. You'll have to lay on your hands and try it yourselves.'

.... All they could do was lie there and scream. And when they would collapse, they would bring in doctors and shoot them up with vitamin B and rest them up for the next class. And when they would die, they would mutilate the bodies and throw them out on the streets, to terrify the population so they would be afraid of the police and the government.

And this is what the CIA was teaching them to do. And one of the women who was in this program for 2 years - tortured in Brazil for 2 years - she testified internationally when she eventually got out. She said, `The most horrible thing about it was in fact, that the people doing the torture were not raving psychopaths.' She couldn't break mental contact with them the way you could if they were psychopath. They were very ordinary people....

[Nikki Stone1]

23. So the domestic terrorism in the Homeland Security Act goes back to Reagan

Then it starts getting heavy. The `Pre-emptive Strikes' bill. President Reagan, working through the Secretary of State Shultz... almost 2 years ago, submitted the bill that would provide them with the authority to strike at terrorists before terrorists can do their terrorism. But this bill... provides that they would be able to do this in this country as well as overseas. It provides that the secretary of state would put together a list of people that he considers to be terrorist, or terrorist supporters, or terrorist sympathizers. And if your name, or your organization, is put on this list, they could kick down your door and haul you away, or kill you, without any due process of the law and search warrants and trial by jury, and all of that, with impunity.

Now, there was a tremendous outcry on the part of jurists. The New York Times columns and other newspapers saying, `this is no different from Hitler's "night in fog" program', where the government had the authority to haul people off at night. And they did so by the thousands. And President Reagan and Secretary Shultz have persisted.... Shultz has said, `Yes, we will have to take action on the basis of information that would never stand up in a court. And yes, innocent people will have to be killed in the process. But, we must have this law because of the threat of international terrorism'.

Think a minute. What is `the threat of international terrorism'? These things catch a lot of attention. But how many Americans died in terrorist actions last year? According to Secretary Shultz, 79. Now, obviously that's terrible but we killed 55,000 people on our highways with drunken driving; we kill 2,500 people in far nastier, bloodier, mutilating, gang-raping ways in Nicaragua last year alone ourselves. Obviously 79 peoples' death is not enough reason to take away the protection of American citizens, of due process of the law.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4068.htm

But they're pressing for this. The special actions teams that will do the pre-emptive striking have already been created, and trained in the defense department.

They're building detention centers. There were 8 kept as mothballs under the McLaren act after World War II, to detain aliens and dissidents in the next war, as was done in the next war, as was done with the Japanese people during World War II. They're building 10 more, and army camps, and the... executive memos about these things say it's for aliens and dissidents in the next national emergency....

FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, headed by Loius Guiffrida, a friend of Ed Meese's.... He's going about the country lobbying and demanding that he be given authority, in the times of national emergency, to declare martial law, and establish a curfew, and gun down people who violate the curfew... in the United States.

And then there's Ed Meese, as I said. The highest law enforcement officer in the land, President Reagan's closest friend, going around telling us that the constitution never did guarantee freedom of speech and press, and due process of the law, and assembly.

What they are planning for this society, and this is why they're determined to take us into a war if we'll permit it... is the Reagan revolution.... So he's getting himself some laws so when he puts in
the troops in Nicaragua, he can take charge of the American people, and put people in jail, and kick in their doors, and kill them if they don't like what he's doing....

The question is, `Are we going to permit our leaders to take away our freedoms because they have a charming smile and they were nice movie stars one day, or are we going to stand up and fight, and insist on our freedoms?' It's up to us - you and I can watch this history play in the next year and 2 and 3 years.

[PDJane]

28. I've been watching for some time,

And wondering when Nemisis shows up. The damage done by the secret government in the service of American corporations is incredibly ugly, and largely unknown by too many inside the US.

[Webster Green]

2. He could call Osama..

Remember when chimpy sent the Taliban 43 million right before 9/11?

That was really cool!

[monmouth]

3. I see my SS check dwindling right before my eys.....n/t

[MannyGoldstein]

4. It Follows Perfectly From What He's Said

Bush has said that the Constitution gives him powers to do absolutely anything during wartime. Congress and the courts are only advisers, there are no actual checks or balances. Even the rest of the Constitution can be ignored, e.g., the 4th Amendment with warrantless wiretaps.

Thus, he can do anything - come to your house and take money if he wants to.

The Congress, by failing to disagree with him, may have actually consented to this.

(BTW, this is PRECISELY how Hitler was able to take over Germany. Good precedent, eh?)

[tinfoilinfor2005]

27. He has an open invitation to come to my house.

I'll show him some true southern hospitality.
:evilgrin:

[Diane R]

5. So, who defines 'war time'. Does a civil war in another country qualify?

Could Congress rescind that designation and reign Chimpy in?

[Toots]

14. Can they and will they are two completely different terms.

I am sure they can stop the war just by declaring it over, as according to the Constitution only Congress has the abialty to Declare War. So that means if they can declare war they can undeclare war as well. I'm sure Bush* and Cabal would simply say they can't do that and only the Commander in Chief can stop a war and if it were to go to Extrteme (Scalia) Court who do you think would win? That is why I am fairly certain that Democrats will not declare the war over. Remember this is a "War on Terror" and by definition it can never end. Terror has been with mankind from the very beginning and will be with mankind until the end. It would take real Balls to stand up and say there is no such thing as a "War on Terror". That it is a Police matter for some sort of world community police. We are not engaged against uniformed soldiers. We are not fighting a foreign nation. We as a country are not really "at war" but who would ever have the nerve to say such a thing, it would be like saying the Emperor has no clothes when all of us know just how splendid are the clothes the Emperor is wearing...

[BringEmOn]

6. Like father, like son.

[AlCzervik]

7. check this story out, it's from NOW with Bill Moyers and it deals with going around congress

to get funds, in this case it's about giving money to home schooling companies, Bill Bennett's in particular. The subject matter is not Iraq but i think the same giving congress the reach around is relevant here. This story always pissed me off.


Click to see the response received since the airing of "Private Agenda"

MOYERS: During his first three years in office, President Bush has funneled tens of millions of dollars to churches to use for social services. Congress refused to approve the President's Faith-Based Initiative, as he calls it, but he acted anyway — by Executive Order, on his own, despite criticism that he was going around both Congress and the Constitution.

The President also wants federal dollars for vouchers that will enable students to attend private and religious schools…what he calls "choice." Congress has refused. So once again the President is doing it his way. Leslie Sewell produced our report and with it we welcome the newest member of our NOW team, correspondent Michele Mitchell.

MITCHELL: Our President is a marathon runner, which means he's got tenacity. So when, that pesky branch of government known as Congress twice killed his push for school vouchers — public funding for private education — well, that only meant he had to find another way. And he did.

BUSH : When we find children trapped in schools that will not change, parents must be given another viable option.

MITCHELL: He found his option by going through the Department of Education, where no congressional approval was needed to free up $77 million in taxpayer money…to advance an agenda of using public money to privatize public education.

This story is about who got it, why they got it, and what they're doing with it. The private conservative groups that got funding all share a common agenda: directing tax dollars to private and religious schools, something they call "choice." Seed money, really, for a conservative movement that would transform public schools and do so beyond public control. And these groups have a key friend in this government.

EUGENE HICKOK, UNDERSECRETARY OF EDUCATION: When I joined the administration I severed all ties with all these organizations.

MITCHELL: This is Eugene Hickok. He helped form two of those organizations before he became the Undersecretary of Education; he met the folks behind many of the other groups while heading up education for the state of Pennsylvania. He's got some weight when it comes to who receives that $77 million.

there is more at the link if you are intersted.
http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript313_full.html

[Shoelace]

8. Raid Social Security again - that's what he'll do

no brainer there. He's already raided it to the billions of dollars to take the heat off the deficit and that IS how they downed that figure!!!:mad:

I can't find the most pertinent article on this factoid but here's another link to what he did (sorry, it's from 2004).

Criminals rob banks - Bush robs our future in it's entirety!

http://www.mikehersh.com/Bush_Threatens_Social_Security.shtml

[AZBlue]

9. Maybe he'll find it hidden with Iraq's WMD's?

What an ass!

[NMMNG]

10. He's got plenty of money

If he's so gung-ho for war let him finance it himself, the bastard.

[hedgehog]

11. I think Seymour Hersh is working on a story documenting that he is

doing exactly that. Check the New Yorker a few issues back. It's very convoluted and hard to follow, but in essence Bush is getting money from private (foreign?)sources and feeding it to people in the Middle East. The real kicker is that while Bush and the neo-cons are backing these people, others are saying that this is the group most involved in terrorism! It's Iran Contra, Part II, only this time it's worse!

[ComerPerro]

12. yeah that is disturbing, isn't it?

[sinkingfeeling]

13. Maybe he can privatize it. Get his oil buddies to pony up. And Haliburton too.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

17. I'm sure all wealthy Republicans will gladly contribute to keep the Iraq occupation going.

[Cleita]

22. Easy, SS, Medicare, and every other social program out there.

It used to be illegal to do that, but they found a way to do it.

[Jacobin]

24. He could sell Massachusetts to Saudi Arabia.

That would probably pay for it.

:shrug:

[Zhade]

25. It's called misappropriation. Or theft.

Will the Dems do shit?

Stay tuned.

[riderinthestorm]

26. Look, this isn't a big surprise. Many people, including me , pointed out that

Shrub will simply wait out Congress - grab the money from the 2007 military budget that's already approved. After he's depleted the 2007 budget $ for the surge, he'll hold Congress responsible to "fund the troops in the field" with that imperious smirk. THAT "supplemental" in September? or perhaps earlier, will pass in a minute as noone will want to be accused of NOT funding troops in the field.