My brother is going back to Iraq.

[MLFerrell]

Thanks to *'s surge. He was there at the beginning of the war in 2003, did 14 months, and has been home since then. He and his girlfriend just got engaged. He works in sales for a uniform supply company, and just got promoted. Now his life is about to be destroyed... again.

It was a different man that I greeted at Pittsburgh Int'l some three years ago, different than the man I had seen off when he left. He was quieter, more prone to anger. Sullen. He always wore a haunting look that spoke volumes. It has taken this long for him to come anywhere close to being his old self again, but now...

He fought in a different war than what exists now. It might as well have been a war from another century. Now, death lurks around every corner. Our soldiers swim in it, they eat it and drink it and sleep it. My brother will be one of those unfortunates soon enough. And he won't be the only one.

I knew a young man who died in *'s insane misadventure. His name was Michael J. Smith, and he played high school football with my brother. He left behind a daughter who he never met. She's probably 3 or 4 years old now. I know about a dozen Iraq vets, friends of mine from high school and college, and not one is the same. Not one. This is *'s legacy, death and destruction, and callous platitudes about "sacrifice" and "honor". Neither that abominable bastard, nor others of his ilk are capable of truly understanding the meaning of words like honor, or sacrifice. But our soldiers are.

My brother is going back to Iraq, and there's not a damn thing that I can do about it. I've tried getting uproariously drunk, to no avail. I tried to follow my mother's advice, and just "don't think about it". But how the hell can I do that? I've tried filling every waking moment with some constructive activity to keep busy, to avoid dwelling on the inevitable. Invariably, my thoughts drift back to my brother, and the horror of Iraq, courtesy of * and the gang.

My brother is going back to Iraq. God willing, he'll come home. In one piece? Only the Lord knows, but so I pray.

My brother is going back to Iraq...

:cry:

[wicket]

1. I'm so sorry

:hug:

[hobbit709]

2. I hope he gets through OK

We can only pray that he makes it. Damn shrub and those bastards all to hell.

[MLFerrell]

5. If only I believed in hell, that would be solace.

Evil thrives when good men (and women) do nothing.

Complacency is the mortal enemy of compassion.

Thank you for your kind words.

[hobbit709]

8. If I could create a hell

I definitely have a list from which to populate it. In the words of Koko The Executioner in The Mi9kado-"I have a little list, they'll never even be missed"

[Hav]

3. .

I'm sorry to hear that.
I'm repeating myself, but it's really about time that the public wakes up and supports the troops by standing up for them, for their rights and security instead of sending more of them to Iraq or any other useless war.

[mentalsolstice]

4. Be strong! Our thoughts are with you and your family! n/t

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

6. I am so sorry. I pray he'll make it home safely.

We'll be here to support you (welcome to DU, btw).

[MLFerrell]

10. Thank you.

I'm not overtly religious, but I pray to whatever deity there may be in dark times such as these.

Surge = More Death

Why have we let this progress this far? Why?

[stevedeshazer]

7. Your story must be told

The only Americans who are forced to obey are the ones who volunteered and their families and friends.

Best of luck to your brother. Godspeed.

[brer cat]

9. You have a community with you.

Welcome to DU.

[Monkeyman]

11. My the War Gods watch over him and bring him home safe in body and mind

[TomInTib]

16. I knew you would be here.

I just got home, turned on the computer and saw this.

That old Devil Combat has so many long, sticky fingers.

[Monkeyman]

24. We still feel the pain Brother

I read your post on your second tour. I had a few little things on mine shhh

[tinfoilinfor2005]

12. I'm afraid I would leave the country, and take my chances making

a life elsewhere. Either way, the sacrifice to your family is enormous. I pray that you are all surrounded by an army of angels until this nightmare is over for you.

[MLFerrell]

50. I've een thinking about getting out of this shameful waste of a country...

For quite some time. I'm almost to that point. I never thought that I'd say it, but I'm ashamed to be an American.

[mnhtnbb]

54. We are almost decided to retire permanently to Panama--where we are building a house--

because we are so ashamed of what has happened to this country and fearful for its future.

May the forces of good watch over your brother and keep him safe from bodily harm. My husband was an AF psychiatrist during Vietnam, so I know
how difficult it will be for your brother to be unaffected psychologically by his experience.

Peace.

[TomInTib]

13. We are with you, MLFerrell

There are many vets here who are outraged at this re-deployment mess.

In my conflict (Vietnam) you had to volunteer for multiple tours.

You should repost this in the Veterans forum.

If I could pray, I would be praying for your brother.

[MLFerrell]

17. My stepfather is a Vietnam veteran...

And until of late a HUGE * supporter. He's finally realized that it was a load of bullshit that he embraced with open arms. Better late than never, forgive and forget.

What REALLY pisses me off is that I can't buy my brother state-of-the-art body armor, otherwise known s Dragon Skin. Oh, sure, I can buy it, but if he decides to wear it, the DOD cuts his death benefits.

REMEMBER: Republicans support the troops, and Democrats don't.

:sarcasm:

[TomInTib]

21. I remember

Taking a Walther 9mm and cases of ammo and a cut-down Ithaca pump 12 to Vietnam on my second tour because I was so tired of shit that broke.

That is the reason I am here today.

[MLFerrell]

25. Yeah, and I can tell you from civilian experience...

That the M-16 A4s aren't any better than their progenitors. You could bury an AK in mud for a year and pull it out and fire off 3 clips. Try doing that with an M-16 that's had its dust cover open for a few hours, let alone some serious gunk.

Symptom or cause? Was our passion for perfection our undoing, as far as small arms go, or was it our pursuit of perceived superiority? All I know is that when I bought my SKS, I ranged it off against Ryan (my brother). His Rock River built AR-15 was golden out to about 200 yards, and after that, our groups were the same. That'd be fine, were it not for the fact that an M-16 / AR-15 costs five to ten times as much to produce, maintenance headaches aside. How much QUALITY body armor could that differential purchase?

What our troops are subjected to is nothing less than criminal...

[truedelphi]

27. What do you mean - if he wears the protective

Armor then they cut his death benefits

Please explain??

That sounds totally nuts... Maybe you can't explain - maybe it just is what is.

God I hate those repukes

[Monkeyman]

33. Here is you wear anything the Military does not give you

Your Death Benefits are gone

[MLFerrell]

37. Look up "dragon skin" and "DOD news" on google...

Yeah, wear non-interceptor armor, no death $ for you. God, Bless, America!

:sarcasm:

[Divernan]

67. This is what I read about the Army's attitude toward the Dragon Skin body armor

Dragon Skin is what the President's secret service wears and it's state of the art and many, many times more protective than the out of date crap the reserves and regular army are given. So parents started buying the Dragon Skin armor privately and sending it to their soldiers. However, the rest of the soldier's platoon knew that the soldier wearing the Dragon Skin was more likely to survive attack than they were, so the unprotected soldiers wanted the soldiers with the Dragon Skin to take the more dangerous assignments. It caused a lot of bad feelings and difficulties. So the Army has come up with policies to strongly discourage any soldiers from wearing Dragon Skin - I recall it was to do with insurance benefits.

[MLFerrell]

69. Actually, it has a lot to do with Republican "support" for the troops...

Dragon Skin is MUCH more effective than the Interceptor body armor that the military currently issues, but the DOD won't pay for it. Sure, they can afford to hire Halliburton to deliver ice at $80k per trip, and God only knows how much to provide rancid food and fetid water on base, but spend vast sums on something that doesn't directly line Dick Cheney's pockets? Perish the thought!

If the DOD were to purchase 150,000 Dragon Skin Vests at $5000 per, the total is $750 million.

You'd think that out of the hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars that this insane misadventure has cost thus far that .75 billion would have been a small price to pay for our troops to have the best protection possible. You'd think that, but then you'd remember that Republican "Support the Troops" means no more than "Slap a ribbon magnet on your SUV, and attack the patriotism of anyone who dares question your commitment."

[TheBaldyMan]

72. there is also the factor of the existing contract to supply body armour.

Guess what, it's the DoD homegrown body armour that is being used because the DoD won't admit that there is a superior alternative to it's own design.

The troops are being denied superior body armour because it might embarrass some big-shot and make them cry.

[Divernan]

64. Send him the Dragon Skin -

So what if they cut his DEATH benefits? He won't need them and he doesn't have any wife or kids to leave them to.

Bush is criminally insane and I am very sorry that you and your brother and family and loved ones are the victims of this insanity.

[uppityperson]

99. Send hiim the Dragon Skin.

It may keep him alive and he needs that more than death benefits. Rock and a hard place, send him what may keep him alive.

[EFerrari]

14. This may be dead wrong but if I were you, no way would I let him go.

:hug:

[MLFerrell]

26. Oh, how I passionately wish that it were that simple...

Unfortunately, it's ultimately his decision, not mine. And my brother is not he sort of man who would abandon his comrades for any reason. Though I disagree with his decision, I respect it immensely. It's just a goddamned shame that his valor can't be exercised on the actual DEFENSE of the United States, as opposed to some insane plot for world domination...

[truedelphi]

28. I just realized that it is a repeat of Ghetto eyes

I used to call the guys I knew that had come back from The Nam in one piece (supposedly) "Ghetto eyes"

They had this haunted look to them.

I started noticing in the late nine eighties that I saw that look less and less - the newer crop- of young people knew nothing of war and militaristic ambitions.

I can't believe we have gone all the way back.

I pray for your brother that he returns home safely.

Hubby and I saw two young recruits and they seemed to be forcing the gaiety of eating a pizza at a local pizzeria. I could tell they had not goneover there previously =- they had that gangly puppy
innocence that young people in their twenties should have.

But their was an undercurrent of disbelief to them - they laughed a little too loud and clowned around a little too much.

I think they were hoping that something would save them from having to go through with it.

[EFerrari]

31. I once threatened to kidnap my own brother if he was drafted

to go to El Salvador . . . and I wasn't kidding. But the women in my family are uppity people.

:hug: to you and yours.

[knitter4democracy]

15. Let us know anything and everything he needs.

We have crafters who want to knit and sew and crochet things for the troops, and we have so many here who send boxes to keep troops' spirits up. Tell us whatever he and his family need.

I will pray, too. I hope God has a special hell for all those toads who got our nation and our brave soldiers, sailors, and Marines in that muck. I will pray hard he comes home safe and sound.

[MLFerrell]

47. Thank you for your generosity.

Judging from his requests the first time around, he's going to want a lot of the following:

Pasta Anytime

Chef Boyardee

Dinty Moore Beef Stew. He loves that godawful crap for some reason.

Mach 3 razor blades

Magazines

Other stuff that presently escapes me.

[knitter4democracy]

55. I'll start getting a box together.

:)

[stillcool]

18. I don't know what to say...

but I want you to know that I hear you. :cry:

[MLFerrell]

20. I know EXACTLY what I want to say.

No, strike that, SCREAM!

STOP THIS MADNESS! WHY? WHY DO YOU PERSIST IN DESTROYING SO MANY LIVES???

My brother is one amongst many, and that is the greatest tragedy. Hundreds of thousands will return to their homeland, and find that they are strangers to their own.

I've seen it happen. They come home, don't fit in, lash out, drink themselves stupid, or worse, get on heroin or the like. And then society relegates tem to the dustbin, writes them off as "undesirable".

Yeah, God Bless THIS America...

:sarcasm:

[stillcool]

30. I've seen it as well....

[lyonn]

34. How about all those having to return go on strike?

Hell, even those going for the first time. Look at it like a contract with your employer. They broke their promise, lied, and didn't follow the constitution. You go to war when you have been attacked. Iraq didn't attack us. bush just decided we need to bring them democracy and freedom. It was all BS. So, I say go on strike and picket bases or whatever.

Most people know we were lied to. Every reason bush/cheney used to attack was a LIE. Our govt. that was elected by the people have a right to not be lied into a war for heaven sakes.

[bdamomma]

49. this war is affecting too many people even

DU'ers. We have to stop and make them listen to us that WE THE PEOPLE want this illegal war to end.

[TwilightGardener]

19. May he be kept safe and sound--best of luck to you and your family.

[northofdenali]

22. I've lit a candle for you and your brother

here: http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng Go to the Search (at bottom) and enter my initials as NoD - then click the small icon candle. :hug:

And send all my best wishes for his safety and quick return.

I will also cry tears for you both, and light another candle here at home. :hug::cry::hug:

[Monkeyman]

40. Same Same its lit

[mzmolly]

23. Heartbreaking.

I shall add to your prayers that he comes home healthy physically and mentally.

Welcome to DU.

[karlrschneider]

29. We are of different generations, but faced with the same questions.

Six of my friends went to Viet Nam and ended their lives there. I was naive enough to believe in the late 1970s that "we" had learned our lessons but alas, no. It seems that history only teaches those who are willing to learn.
The "United" States of America has not yet gotten its shit together to stop this insanity as we did before. I don't know why. :grr:

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

32. I know it's completely unPC of me to say it, but

we live in an existential world. If he feels he should not go, if he feels it would be a crime against his conscience, his God, his fellow human beings, his country, then he should not go. He can choose to do otherwise.

I don't know why you wish to shift all of the blame on the administration. "Just following orders" doesn't cut it.

I don't wish to be harsh in these matters. I pray that your brother's conscience/reason gets the best of him. Doing time in prison is better than participating in an unjust/inhuman/inhumane war. Your brother, as are all of the soldiers--American, Iraqi, Taliban, Sunni, Shiite, etc.--will be in my prayers. May he come home safely with no blood on his hands.

[MLFerrell]

39. My brother is the sort of man who would rather die...

than betray those with whom he shared things that you and I can not imagine.

Would I refuse to participate in an immoral war? Yes.

Would he, had he not been there and fought once already? Knowing him as I do, yes.

Would he (will he) abandon his brothers in arms? Never.

I understand that implicitly. Do I agree with his stance? No. But I still understand.

I ask you this: If we were comrades, how would you feel if I shirked my duty and left you in harm's way? Regardless of moral fortitude? Be honest with yourself and you'll know the answer...

[Joe Chi Minh]

57. Would you have said that if you were a Nazi soldier in WWII?

That it was "your duty"?

The line between what you are contending - loyalty to comrades to the point of accepting maiming or death, irrespective of the nature of the war, and the moral courage to say no, is not always easy to discern, and may eventually be a matter of acting on faith, i.e. in good faith.

Historically, of course, it has always been the lot of soldiers to "do or die" and seldom, if ever, ask the reason why? To me, it would be a matter of whether it was a war of aggression or of defence against aggression. But whatever the choice he will have to live with it. That is something I think he and all of your family members should reflect upon. And whichever he decides on, support him in every way you can.

[rman]

58. "duty" vs "staying with your buddies"

I completely understand the latter, but it's something completely different than the former. You make it sound as though the "duty" IS to protect your 'brothers in arms'. I reality your duty is to follow legal orders from your superior officer. This bond that the situation creates between troops is another thing all together.

Another angle to this is that if all or most troops are there not because they support this illegal war, but are there because they can't leave their buddies in harms way - and all of them would realize that, then they could all just go home and not leave their buddies behind at the same time; their buddies would be going home to.

[MLFerrell]

62. It's not easy to abandon guys who'e faced death at your side.

Believe me, he knows that this war was sold on lies, and that his Oath of Allegiance was to defend the Constitution, not the Asshat in chief, yet he still says, "Don't matter. I'm going."

It'd be nice if Congress would put a stop to this madness. What really worries me is that if * and Israel decide to kick off a war with Iran, he and every other Marine, Airman, and soldier will be caught in the middle...

The Chinese have a pleasant-sounding curse, "May you live in interesting times." I never really understood that before.

I do now.

[rman]

93. Sure, just don't confuse it with "duty". nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. I junderstand

I do

And I hate to agree with your mom, but she's right

as a wife of a Navy Chief who deployed to that insanity and was at sea on Sept 11, I understand

And I too faer he'll be called back one of these days

[MLFerrell]

38. I share your unfathomable torment...

But I utterly refuse to just "ignore it". No offense, but to me, that's a cop out. Only by focusing much attention on the plight of our bravest will change be brought about...

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. Her mom is right in the sense

that he needs to do something useful

Now you read what useful that form takes.

I had to ingore the fact that he was in a warzone, that does not mean I did not do, nor have I stopped fighitng to bring them home

But if you think ALL THE TIME about your loved one, you will go nuts.

Now I hope this explains this to you.

Lets just say that my ahem, being active we suspect even got the IRS on our ass

[Maat]

36. Bush and Cheney and their underlings have to be the most conscience-less ..

people in the entire Universe. What they do to a soldier in one tour is unconscionable - let alone multiple tours.

The soldiers are in our family's prayers.

Praying and sending positive thoughts to your brother.

I'm going to be marching this Friday, Saturday, Sunday AND Monday demanding an end to this occupation and hostilities.

Peace,

:hug:

[ninkasi]

42. I'm so very sorry

I pray that your brother, and all of our other troops come home safe, sound in both mind and body. I pray, as well, for the innocent Iraqi citizens who are suffering because of our president's ego and greed. I know you can't stop thinking about your brother, and if I were in your place, neither could I.

It's very likely that I am older than your parents, because my generation was filled with the troops who fought in VietNam, another war that should never have been fought. I understand the feeling of hopelessness, and rage, that our loved ones are sent into the hell of war. The only thing you can do is to be there when your brother comes back, and be supportive of him.

I have never been angrier in my life. I am in my sixties, and have a number of health problems, but my problems are nothing compared to what those forced to fight in this immoral war are faced with. It's abhorrent to me that we, the people, can not find a way to force our elected leaders to end a war which we are opposed to in increased numbers.

You are new here, but you will always find people willing to lend a listening ear, or a shoulder to cry or lean on, if you need it. I hope that your brother, and the others, come home soon.

[babylonsister]

43. Hugs to you and your brother, MLFerrell. All we can do is keep

pressuring our reps and get in their faces to do the right thing and end this destructive, illegal occupation.
My thoughts and prayers are with you and your brother. :hug:

[Psst_Im_Not_Here]

44. I know how you feel

A friend of mine leaves for his third tour on Wednesday. He said that he's already lost his soul over there.

[MLFerrell]

46. Not to mention his sanity...

[Psst_Im_Not_Here]

96. When he gets back,

and he WILL come back, I'll help him find the help he needs. I have 3 friends with PTSD. They didn't get the help they needed until they got out of the military. One friend did 3 tours in Vietnam from the age of 17-19 years old. He still can't sleep longer than 15 minutes at a time. The other friend served in Rwanda and Somalia at the ripe old age of 18. You still can't sneak up behind him without the possibility of ending up with his hands around your neck. they both are getting the help and support that they need...now.

According to the psychology department professors that my sister works with at a major university, the levels of PTSD coming out of this war are levels that they've never seen before and they say the normal treatments for the disorder or not effective and could possibly do more harm than good. They are at a loss as to what kinds of treatment could help these guys, if there are any.

I'm afraid that we will be seeing more and more suicides as well as murder/suicides with this group of returning heroes.

[bdamomma]

45. I am sorry also, this must stop.

it just really sucks.

[GreenPartyVoter]

48. Oh no! *hugs and prayers*

[sellitman]

51. I'm wishing you a quick happy reunion.

You are a good sister. He is lucky to have you. I am sure he knows this and that it will be a comfort to him and a reason to get through this ordeal.

:hug:

[BlueIris]

52. I'm really, really sorry. nt

[grace0418]

53. I hope and I pray to whatever universal force exists that the pain and torment

BushCo has brought down upon the soldiers, the soldiers' loved ones, and the Iraqi people is somehow, someway visited upon each and every one of them 1000x over. It makes me wish I believed in hell because no one is more deserving of the deepest pits of it than those fucking bastards.

I am also hoping and praying for your brother's safe return.

I'm so sorry.

:hug:

[sonias]

56. MLFerrell, I am so sorry about the news

I can only imagine your stress and anxiety over this. I'll pray that your brother makes it home safely too.

:hug:

Sonia

[Cabcere]

59. I am so sorry to hear that.

:cry: :hug: May God be with your brother and his fellow soldiers. I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your brother's friend and teammate, as well - one of my friends from high school was killed in Iraq last month, and there hasn't been a moment since then that he hasn't been on my mind. :cry: It's horrible and tragic for so many people...not only for the ones who fight, but for their loved ones who remain at home. My little brother just turned sixteen, so he's not old enough to go into the military yet, but I'm terrified that Bush's idiotic lack of planning for this war will cause the draft to be reinstated, and if my little brother had to go to war I think I would lose my mind. My thoughts and prayers will be with your brother and your family, and I pray he will come home safe and soon. :hug: :grouphug:

[MasonJar]

60. I am so sorry. Write to your congressman and your two senators.

Tell them how you feel; it might help.

[scarz]

61. i am an american soldier

i am a prior service soldier who reenlisted, after 5 years studying philosophy and electrical engineering, in the infantry with PERFECT test scores and for no bonus or college money. i am single and a thousand miles away from my 2 amazing children. i am preparing for my third combat tour in this world. i am an awake buddhist and a pacifist, but i will go to war for my brothers back. i do not fight for politicians. i do not fight for oil (well i do, actually). i do not fight for money or power or glory. in a way i fight for lies, but the truth of the matter is i fight for my family, so they wont have to, and i fight for freedom. Freedom is such a fleeting concept, for the tyranny we truly face is the oppressive greed the pervades our political leadership. we have become slaves to wealth, allowing our gluttonous leaders to control our senses and become fat off of our labors. i fight for truth, justice and the american way. amerika has become what our four fathers had seeked to free themselves from. the greatest injustice lies in good men allowing this travesty to occur. so im going to do my job and fight, because thats what soldiers do, they fight for what they believe in. i am not right, i am not left. i walk my own path of truth. no labels. no attachments.

[MLFerrell]

65. Yol Bolsun!

It's a phrase from a dead Turkic language. It means, "May there be a road."

Yol Bolsun.

May you come home safely to your children.

[Marrah_G]

66. stay safe please

[renate]

70. welcome to DU

My favorite Buddhist prayer seems appropriate here, for you and for the OP's brother: May you be happy, may you be peaceful, may you be free from suffering.

And may all those things be possible for you in the unimaginably difficult job that you are preparing to do.

[sakabatou]

63. May he come back safely

[MLFerrell]

68. I remembered something just now.

When Ryan was in Iraq the first time, I spoke with him a few days after Thanksgiving. Remember when * was playing dress-up decider with the big, luscious, fake plastic turkey? Yeah, well that Thanksgiving, my brother was sitting in a guard tower, feasting on a cold MRE, cheese tortellini if I recall correctly.

So, when I spoke with him, I asked how his Thanksgiving went...

"All I have to be thankful for is that I'm still alive, and getting out of this hellhole once and for all at some point."

So much for that idea, huh?

[TheBaldyMan]

71. I hope he is OK,

I hope that congress pulls its head out its collective backside & brings the troops home and soon.

In the meantime they could start shipping decent personal protection to the infantry that actually patrol the streets.

Congress could also sort out the VA and make sure that they have decent care when they come back.

It sounds like your brother will be needing the VA at some time in the future, he can't bottle it up forever. Hopefully he'll get help before he blows a gasket. He isn't alone.

[maggiegault]

73. My Brother Is Over There Right Now, On His Second Deployment

If you want to chat, let me know and I'll shoot you my email address.

I cannot say anything to do you that will comfort you. This deployment will be much worse than his first, I can say that. I don't believe in bullshitting families of our troops. Your brother is going to an unthinkably bad situation.

I will also say this. I trust that he is a good soldier and that counts for so much. He needs to keep his head down, listen to his brass, and always focus on what is important: coming home alive to the people who love him.

I mean it about contacting me away from DU. If you need to chat, you know where to find me.

[MLFerrell]

74. I appreciate that very much.

And I may just take you up on that offer.

[focusfan]

75. i don't think we have no bussiness over there

because of Bush's war and the money he has made from soldiers
dying.

[salin]

76. prayers and best wishes sent

May he come back and be able to heal. Hugs to him, to you, to his fiance ... :cry: I can't imagine.

In the build up to the last Gulf war my brother and his wife were in the service - and stationed abroad. Easily moved to the arena. But taht was a short war - and they were never deployed to the war zone. None the less, the dread we felt for them was overwhelming. That was *nothing* compared to today - My heart goes out to you, your brother, your family and all whose lives he touches. :cry: :hug:

[Marrah_G]

77. My brother is in the ME somewhere also

Not sure exactly where though. Retired ten+ years ago, served in Desert Storm and Somalia, got married, had 5 kids, Navy called him back with a months noticed to deploy for at least a year. I'll light a candle for your brothers also. May they all come home to their children.

[scarz]

78. why dont soldiers come here?

i have always checked this site for info, tho never registered. why is it that its always the sons or husbands(wives too) and brothers who are in iraq, and never actually soldiers. the situation on the ground is not how you think. its wayyyyyy worse. (11b/11c yusifiyah, 502nd; 101st 05-07) they are kids and the army is broken. like i said before im prior service, and the nco corps is known as the backbone of the army. the good soldiers get out leaving a vacuum which gets filled by unworthy soldiers. the backbone of the army then becomes broken. if a living thing has its backbone broken, what happens to it? it dies and is devoured by another living thing. but one thing i will say about the equipment. we are by far the most well equipped army in the world. ive trained with many other countries, back in the day, and we play at a completely different level, at least where ive been, (75th, 82nd, now 101st) we have sooo much shit that when were given more armor like the new neck protector, we choose not to wear it, for it is to bulky and not feasible in that HEAT. we have more money and equipment, and many of the soldiers could constitute the newest greates generation, even with its flaws. were losing because were playing a game that is impossible to win with honor (we would win if we got dirty, like how haj plays dirty) PLEASE dont find this arrogant or conceited but i have perfect test scores, and as a coed one major was philosophy (EE was the other) very rarely do you find people like that with perspectives like that in the infantry. but im not special, it just makes be a better soldier. i just wish more soldiers and more people were awake.

[MLFerrell]

80. You are wrong about one thing, my friend...

You said, "were losing because were playing a game that is impossible to win with honor (we would win if we got dirty, like how haj plays dirty)"

No. This 'game' is impossible to win, period. It was impossible from the moment that the first soldier set foot into Iraq, impossible from the instant that the bombs began to fall.

You ever seen the movie 'Wargames'?

At the end, the computer realizes that nuclear war cannot be won. It says to its creator:

"A strange game. The only way to win is to not play."

The only way that we COULD have 'won' was by never embarking on this insanity in the first place. But its far too late for that now.

All the equipment in the world is utterly useless when facing a determined, resolute enemy.

I'll tell you this, if ANY country invaded MY home, I would fight to the death to drive the occupation out. What the Iraqis are doing is no different.

Does that make me feel any better about the fact that my brother is going back into hell's maw?

No.

But I truly see both sides of the proverbial coin.





Oh, that I were a Republican, and could convince myself that the world is black-or-white, with us or against us. Unfortunately, I see the subtle shades of gray...

[scarz]

83. i sense anger

we can win. trust me. i didnt say we will, and im going right back over. what it would take to win,in a pure military sense, would require us, in action, to abandon honor, and integrity and any sort of "warrior ethos". given that, in a sense the only solution for us is diplomacy. a soldier prays for peace, and any leader who once served would know that. i have many "fans" here in my unit and one option ive tossed around, though its not my idea is to split iraq into thirds, for each obvious sect. they would have theyre own governments just like our states do. they would be overseen by a centralized government in bagdahd. we could even call it the united states of iraq, tho that dosent sound arabic to me. we would truly export american style democracy, because by definition america is a constitutional republic. victory for all people. all iraqis , and all americans. ive never seen a border line on the ground and i certainly wouldnt hold onto so dearly an arbitrary line formed 60 odd years ago, for money and not the people. it is the people who need help. do you you think that a free iraqi bleeds any less or a different color. do theyre hearts not break when holding theyre fallen children. do theyre dreams not shatter with the glass in wake of explosions. its a big fuckin planet, thats the only border line i see on the ground. now bring me that horizon.

[MLFerrell]

86. Anger? Yes.

Directed at you? Absolutely not.

What is victory, if you don't mind my asking?

A stable, pro-American Iraq? After the carnage that we have wrought over there, that's a pipe dream.

A unified, democratic state? No.

The Sunnis and Shiites would rather slaughter each other than make peace. Their feud has been self-perpetuating since 632 A.D. It's not about to change simply because we fervently wish it so.

Oh, and finally, if the American Republic is indicative of wha Iraqis can expect, than I don't blame them (Iraqis) in the slightest for struggling against our "vision" for Iraq.

Iraq is broken. All the king's soldiers and all the king's men... How does that go again? :shrug:

[scarz]

98. victory is peace

we should all hope for peace. that is the greatest victory. to find peace in yourself is great, to find peace in the world is greater, for the world to find peace in itself is greatest of all (ME)

[uppityperson]

100. Can this occupation end in peace? How?

[scarz]

102. refer to reply 83

im just a man and i offer a plan. give the people what they truly want. a "country" , actually a province, to call their own. the middle east conflicts in modern times are mostly fought by people who just want a home. it does not matter how arid or unwelcoming it may seem, they want a home and the freedom to govern themselves as they see fit. i doubt they would cross a provincial border to kill others, IF they had a land of their own. remember that the borders are arbitrary and formed by man who had little concern for religion, only profit. the only true reason for a centralized government for the three province republic of iraq would be standard infrastructure, health car, defense considerations as well as a unified body to equitably oversee oil profits. these oil profits could be used to build up the country and facilitate any moves of citizens to their respective religious or cultural province. A COUNTRY WHERE PEOPLE BELIEVE IN ALL THE SAME THINGS. you can move to where you will be safe and respected and totally free to practice your beliefs,in peace. THATS GETTING CLOSE TO FREEDOM. its too easy,

[uppityperson]

104. United States of Iraq?

Cutting Iraq into Sunni, Shiite, Kurdish states will bring peace? "we could even call it the united states of iraq, tho that dosent sound arabic to me. we would truly export american style democracy, because by definition america is a constitutional republic. "

Most people want to be able to live, work, worship, play, raise families as they want to in peace. Too bad occupying a country isn't the path to peace as it would make things so much easier. Imposing whatever isn't the path to peace either. War is not peace, regardless of what you write.

Your plan sounds similar to India/Pakistan division, though no centralized gvt and see how well that worked. War is not peace. Occupying a country will not bring peace.

[scarz]

105. the united staes of iraq was not a serious name, that would never work

and it would work in the united kingdom/canada sort of way

[uppityperson]

106. what about the rest?

We occupy them until they break into 3 and peace ensues? What about how well this worked with India/Pakistan?

[scarz]

107. we give them there own country

i just got back (see earlier posts in thread) and am going over. i dont want to go over. give them theyre own country. dont occupy it. give them freedom. isnt that what democracy is all about. we fix the wrongs of the past (englands arbitrary borderes, and our bullshit war)how can they be mad if we right the wrongs of the past and all the people have their own home governed by people just like them. america dosent even have that, for america is governed by the rich,and most are poor. india/pakistan is different in that iraq has the potential for a booming economy, remember pre 1993, before embargoes. india has over a billion people and the slums of calcutta are probably the worst place on earth. we can give them hope for the future and a place to call home. we can give peace....IF

[uppityperson]

108. So we leave. End the occupation and leave.

we can give peace....IF?

[scarz]

109. IF...

if...good men rise up (insert al gores name her)...if leaders think of th people, not their greasy fat lined pockets...if people forbid their government from abusing them..if people cared more about american ideals instead of american idol..if more people woke up..but probably most importantly IF THIS POLITICAL LEADERSHIP CARED ABOUT THE SECURITY OF THE WORLD INSTEAD OF THE SECURITY OF THEIR PORTFOLIO, IF THEY CARED LESS ABOUT DIVIDING THEIR PLUNDER AND MORE ABOUT HOW THEY DIVIDE PEOPLE. if or "leaders" cared about actually being respectable human beings ...if only it wasnt so much to ask

[uppityperson]

110. If the leaders were humane. Question for you

if you have perfect test scores, why is your grammar and spelling and punctuation so atrocious?

[MLFerrell]

111. " if you have perfect test scores, why is your grammar and spelling and punctuation so atrocious?"

GOOD question!

Say, scarz, question numero dos. Which Amero-Iraqi bases were you at again? I seem to have missed that part...

Oh, and I never did catch that MOS. Refresh my memory, wouldya?

[scarz]

115. asdfjhsduo;fn asdgfasergty

i dont care about punctuation.?! eye kan speeel, aye justt kant tiep , end i dunt kar aboot speel czech. i type and send without rereading or remorse. and about the grammar, i have style, and any writer knows that when you know ALL THE RULES,then YOU CAN BREAK THEM, OR if your like me, i dont care about the rules of language. its my style. i think we should all hope to be ourselves, and not driven by rules or regulations. the definition of a computer is a device whereby input is given and output uh...outputted, based on STRICT RULES. i am certainly not a computer i am a free man. i am so smrt.. S ..M ..R..T

[scarz]

116. the question you shoulda asked is

what have you done in your life to be able to write so free. words just come out so easily, and i am in no way concerned with any literary devices , as if i were trying to get published. it cannot be denied that i have a unique perspective and have so far led a somewhat unique life. read all my post so far (only like 10, know that i am a warrior and father and philosopher and know that the world requires so many more people like me to stand up. why are you hating?

[uppityperson]

124. I would call it skepticism, not hate.

People can claim they are anything online and please reread what MLFerrell worte in post #114 as he puts well how I feel, explains my skepticism also.

There are other people on DU who like to write freeflowing also. Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not. Be prepared to be challenged, just because a poster writes they are a (fill in the blank) doesn't mean they are or that they are any better, or worse, than any other poster. Some post understating themselves, some overstating themselves. So long as you can see and understand what is happening to our country and who is harming it and us, we are on the same side and working together. Welcome to DU.

[scarz]

118. how about this

first i usually cannot talk about matters that matter, at any time, with my brothers in arms. what is wrong writing with open form, free verse, discontinuous narrative juxtaposition, intertextuality (sounds fun YESSSS), classical allusions, while borrowing from other cultures and languages and using my favorite;the unconventional use of metaphor. i know i have sytle and that i can write like ..people who can WRITE.

[MLFerrell]

114. Despite my skepticism...

I must say, you apparently have the right idea. I sincerely hope that you believe what you post. If so, kudos! If not, God help you.

Our leaders are not leaders. They are politicians. All they really know how to do well is get elected. Governance?

Fuhgeddaboutit.

Don't take anything that I've said (or will say) personally, I'm a born skeptic. And I've run across a few poor excuses for humans who just love to pretend that they are Iraq II vets, but fought their war from Mom's basement. 101st fighting keyboarders and all that...

Anyway, I don't really care if you were or weren't in Iraq. What I care about is whether or not you see who and what is destroying this country. I'd like to think that you see the light, brother. This is something that affects us all, military or civilian.

That's all I have to say.

[scarz]

117. thankz

[MLFerrell]

119. You're welcome.

And hey...

Think about what I said.

[uppityperson]

123. Thank you for your well written post.

Thank you for explaining to scarz about concerns about posers, since anyone can claim anything, but knowing the truth of what is going on, who is destroying out country is most important.

[Marrah_G]

81. well

My brother would never post on a political site because he is an officer and critizing the administration could make life more difficult for his family.

I think there are more active personnel reading/posting on du then we think and they just do not make it known. Which may be wise in this age of hmmeland security internet sweeps.

[noamnety]

92. "haj"?

is that kinda like "gook"?

[scarz]

94. more like charlie

trust me i did not make that up but it has become an inescapable part of military vernacular. do you really care if soldiers are politically correct. i hope not. and no matter what anyone says there are two kinds of soldiers. there are grunts and there is everyone else. grunts will do what no one else will. they can take anything. they are warriors. HOWEVER i freely admit that they are part of the machine just like everyone else and the machine will not function if any cogs are missing. grunts are not better, nor certainly not worse...just different. and trust me you need us to do the shit no one else will do. we are not white collar nor blue collar, but dirty green collared.

[noamnety]

97. spare me

There's a reason it's part of the military vernacular, just as there was a reason gook was part of the vernacular.

It was all an act for me, a cover-up for deeper fears I couldn't name, and the reason I know that is that we had to dehumanize our victims before we did the things we did. We knew deep down that what we were doing was wrong. So they became dinks or gooks, just like Iraqis are now being transformed into ragheads or hajjis. People had to be reduced to "niggers" here before they could be lynched. No difference. We convinced ourselves we had to kill them to survive, even when that wasn't true, but something inside us told us that so long as they were human beings, with the same intrinsic value we had as human beings, we were not allowed to burn their homes and barns, kill their animals, and sometimes even kill them. So we used these words, these new names, to reduce them, to strip them of their essential humanity, and then we could do things like adjust artillery fire onto the cries of a baby.

I've linked this before, but you're new here. And you need to read it.

http://www.counterpunch.org/goff11142003.html

[jhasp]

120. I'll let my cousing know...

that he is unworthy. He just reenlisted (army) and will be going back to Iraq.

"the good soldiers get out leaving a vacuum which gets filled by unworthy soldiers."

While I don't agree with his decision, he is certainly not "unworthy".

[scarz]

121. actually i meant the young guys

you shoulda looked beneath the surface a little i am back in the infantry after FIVE YEAR HIATUS AS A ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING AND PHILOSOPHY STUDENT . and i am definitely not unworthy. for every good soldier that gets out of the army his "number" is filled by a fresh UNWORTHY recruit. dont jump to conclusions cause your angry looking for a fight.

[MLFerrell]

79. May your brother come home safely.

At least my brother doesn't have any children to miss him while he's gone. I couldn't begin to imagine how hard it would be if he did...

May every last sonofabitch who supported this travesty suffer for their sins.

[Ariana Celeste]

82. I am so sorry.

My good friend just went out there. My ex and very close friend has been out there, and is now home. My SO's stepdad is still out there, Lord knows when he will come home. And my cousin's husband is out there.

It's easy for a lot of people to say... don't let them go.... I wish it were that easy in reality. All we can hope for is that they come home safe and don't have to go back again. :hug: My thoughts are with you and your brother.

[shance]

84. Tell him not to go. If he and others refuse to engage in the illegal mass killing, then

pretty soon there will be no army to be exploited and used, other than Bush's private army to do the war profiteer's bidding.

I know that is certainly not an easy decision. It makes me enraged to think that these young kids have to be put in such a wrong, cornered position. However at this point, what is the alternative other than to say "Hell no I won't go"?

To have ones life potentially ruined is not an alternative. It is a permanent unalterable state.

We know the stakes now.

We are no longer ignorant.

May we both find in ourselves and support in others the courage this planet and all of us need right now so that we may survive the evil that is upon us.

[scarz]

85. im pretty sure this dosent help my morale

we lied to go to war, i can freely say that. however a good soldier and a god man. just someone who is human and humane would realize that is our responsibility and moral obligation to fix what we broke. they broke it. many many other people like me will fix it. if you go to a department store and your irresponsible children, who care more about candy than anything else, break an expensive vase, do you run? or do you pay for it and fix the situation? a good father would try to set the example and pay for it, then hug his child and make sure they know theyre loved and REALIZE the error of the ways.WE WOULD NOT RUN AND BEAT OUR IRRESPONSIBLE CHILDREN. its not illegal mass killing, by the US. i recently got back, i was wounded(and made them make me stay) and the unit i was in had the most kia of any brigade. war is hell, but many, WHO havent been theye have this nightmarish romanticized idea of how things are. WAR is HELL. what is it supposed to be? look at 300, what do they do to wounded? look at the japanese in ww2. we have honor. we fight for things higher than ourselves. i am an awake buddhist (and an infantryman, long story) there is no room for blind hate, even if the seeds were formed right. you cant make fun of me or disrespect me. i put my life on the line for what i believe in . i live for something. do not tell soldiers to quit. they need all the help they can get. it is a dark time and we could all use a little son. please dont rain on their parade. a well deserved parade.

[MLFerrell]

87. I don't mean to call into qustion your veracity...

But I have a few questions.

When were you in country, with what unit, battalion, and division, and where? How long has it been since you were over there? Did you see combat? If so, live fire, IEDs, what?

Oh, and sir? I don't buy it for a second that you are a Buddhist. Followers of the eightfold path strip their minds of desire, and from what I can discern, you have one hell of a desire to see der Chimperor succeed in Iraq. Yeah, we'd all love to see a stable, democratic Iraq... But if you've REALLY been there, you know that that is an impossibility.

It can't be done. Victory is impossible. And I sincerely wonder why you support this utter madness, seemingly without question.
Break eggs to make an omlette? What if the recipe was flawed in the first place?

[scarz]

88. you dont mean to question my veracity, but you call me a charlatan

yes i was in country i went to basic in oct 96 wnt to airborne school then ranger indoctrination program . spent 6 months in 3rd ranger battalion at benning. went to 3/505 in the 82nd airborne division and paricipated in the only combat tour my entire time in the army in kosovo in 98 (bco 3/505) it was a war for 2 months or so. got out in mar 2001 for a girl (of course) joined th ny national guard to pay for school. deployed to ground zero on sep 11. reenlisted in the army specifically for 101st airborne div in nov of 05.went form my house to yusifiyah in 5 short weeks. i have 2 amazing children 100 miles away infantry, both 11b and 11c. i took incoming EVERY SINGLE DAY. 502nd infantry regt. an absolute miracle i didnt die ( hours in sector. "what was hi name again" was wounded you should see my kick ass scar yusifiyah in the mutha fuckin triangle howdare you question my integtiy you CIVILIAN. oh yeah hero. about hte buddhist thing. you know nothing but what you readin books. knowing the path is different from walking the path. is it wrong to desire that your children are happy or that there is peace on earth. i dont think so. you only know superficial. you know NOTHING of ZEN. if i told you a joke, how would i know that you got it. the only way i could know you got it is by laughing. YOU DONT GET IT hero. oh yeah hero, what are samurai?????? buddhist warriors. duh. i am awake . i see through all the bullshit, like how you would MAKE FUN OR QUESTION a soldiers integrity how dare you attempt to SWIFT BOAT ME you do not stand for what is right. you are so filled with anger and hate you are so quick to denounce anyone who shares a viewpoint different than yours. HAVE I REALLY BEEN THERE ARE YOU FUCKIN SERIOUS i guarantee you would piss your pants if youve walked in my or any otheres boots. you disgust me, yet i would still fight for you for you are asleep in a dream, your mind is still bound. never question a soldiers integrity. come to clarksville some time in a bar and question any of my brothers accomplishments. i double dog dare you too. and about the chimperor thing. i am a good soldier soldier, conscious of the fact that any stated disrespect to my commander in chief may be punishable under the uniform code of military justice, so if you dont have anything nice to say......but YOU disgust me, questioning me. what if the recipe was flawed???? the most delicious drink, which im sure a civilian would know , is water on the hottest of days, when one is parched of thirst. just water. its not the water that is special, nor the sunny sunny day. it is the person and their perspective. its not the recipe thats the problem, its flawed perspective. war for oil and money. greed, as ive said before, is the problem of the world. any DESIRE for power or wealth . (thats the desire true buddhists talk about hero) when oyu attach yourself to the acquisition of wealth or fleeting material goods you suffer. we are programmed to seek these things. they become our chains and mind forged manacles. one must see the truth to be awake and be free. we are puut into this bondage and forced to suffer to make others rich. knowing this what would you so???/ obviously a civilian would sit and watch on tv and question others desire to fight t and even their record. i see great flaws in the world. i believe i can make a difference. i fight for what i believe in. soldiers fight for what they believe in. i can be a warrior a father and a philosopher all at the same time. i gusee that makes me a man. what r you hero? question me, ha.......queestion yourself.

[MLFerrell]

89. Look, I didn't ask for a diatribe...

All I want to know is what unit, what MOS, what battalion, what division?

Oh, and by the way... Airborne school? Where? I happen to know where Airborne Rangers etc. train. Let's see if you get it right.

QUOTE: "i fight for what i believe in. soldiers fight for what they believe in."

So, um, are you a soldier or not? I discern mixed messages from your rhetoric.

So, what's the deal? You wanna fill me in on some details?

Pony up or learn to spell, either way.

What's with the whole personal attack business? All I asked is where, under what conditions, and when...

Is that so much to ask?

I eagerly await your reply.

[scarz]

91. you gotta be kidding right

airborne school is at benning. 3rd bat is at benning. 1st is hunter aa 2nd at lewis. you cant discern whether im a soldier. can you discern if your alive. and its not whether i can speel, its if i can type. i am in 2/502 right this second. 11b/11c 101st division formerly 3/75 (no division) and 3/505 in 82nd. i doubt you know many ranger bat rangers. you may know guys who went to ranger school. any real ranger will tell you ranger school is just a school, ranger bat is a way of life. roger out

[scarz]

95. oh yeah by the way

i thought the left was supposed to be the liberal side, more free to change, OPEN MINDED. no matter what you hear you will believe what you believe right now and will not change. how are you free then. actually you are a slave to you prejudice. theres a famous story, well maybe not paris hilton famous about a man in early india, who left his family and went into the mountains. there he saw ice. he could not believe that water could be a solid. and the water changed immediately into ice, there was no middle state. water stopped flowing and become solid. unbelievable. when he returned home he proclaimed to his father what he (father) knew of water was wrong. water could stop flowing and become ice. the father was so fixated on his belief, a lifetime of experience could not sway a single testament, EVEN FORM HIS OWN SON. obviously we know of liquid and solid and gaseous, and know we know of plasma. you are like the father. i am the son. and if you wanted to, you could saw that the truth, the knowledge is god. i would then be, in a philosophical and metaphorical way, the son of god. dont listen to everyone even yourself sometimes. what are you doing but whining and complaining. if you see something wrong do everything in your power to fix it. i am. hopefully you become so inspired to take it upon yourself to fight for what is right, even if you believe you will lose, maybe others will carry on . thomas jefferson once said, well probably more that once, who really knows that"An enemy generally says and believes what he wishes." oops wrong quote "

Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty.

Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day.

EVERY CITIZEN SHOULD BE A SOLDIER. THIS WAS THE CASE WITH THE GREEKS AND ROMANS, AND MUST BE THAT OF EVERY FREE STATE.
end quotes
i am not who i am, nor do what i do because someone says to. i am awake an i do what i KNOW to be right. luckily there are great men before me to validate what i have done. I am not right, i am not left, i walk my own path. WHAT are you doing.

[Imagevision]

90. This is tough, and * sending 8200 more families into his oil war...

[uppityperson]

101. Best of luck to your brother, may he return safely and may you all

be able to maintain your sanity.

[MLFerrell]

112. Thank you.

[gbate]

103. I'm sorry. Sending some prayers up for him. (and you)

[MLFerrell]

113. Thank you.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

122. Is he a reservist? Or is this an involuntary recall of IRR (Inactive Ready Reserve)?

Or is he a National Guardsman?

In any case, best of luck. Sorry to hear this.

[MLFerrell]

125. He's a Reservist...

459th Combat Engineer... He builds bridges, particularly those pontoon bridges. His unit won the Presidential Unit Citation a few years back. I've seen them build a bridge across the Ohio river in about 10 minutes. It's insane how quickly they can cross huge spans of water...