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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 11:07 PM
Original message
Religion's Generation Gap
The Wall Street Journal

Religion's Generation Gap
When children become more devout than their parents, relationships can get strained. A report on keeping the faith, and the peace, at the dinner table.
By KATHERINE ROSMAN
March 2, 2007; Page W1

Sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll used to be the Big Three of rebellion. Some families are adding religion to that list. An increasing number of teens and young adults who were raised in nonreligious or nominally religious families are getting swept up in religious fervor. This is creating a complicated and sometimes painful family dynamic.

The parents of 16-year-old Kevin Ellstrand are self-described secular humanists who shun organized religion. Two years ago, Kevin says, he "started following Christ with all my heart." He has taken a missionary trip to Mexico and participates in a weekly Bible study group. In a time when many teens are having sex and taking drugs, his parents mostly consider his piety a blessing. They get upset, however, when Kevin explains that he doesn't believe in evolution. "To me, this is appalling," says his mother, Karen Byers, who has a doctorate in strategic management and was raised a Methodist. "We get into arguments, and voices get a little louder than they should." Kevin says: "I don't want my parents to go to hell for not believing in God. But that is what's going to happen, and it really scares me." Kevin's father, Alan Ellstrand, director of M.B.A. programs at the University of Arkansas business school, says he respects his son but is saddened that he has such worries. "I'm sorry that's the byproduct of his religious studies," says Mr. Ellstrand, who grew up Unitarian.


(snip)

Tom Lin's parents, immigrants from Taiwan, sent him to Harvard University with the expectation he would become a corporate attorney. When he instead opted for a much lower-paying career in a Christian ministry, his mother threatened to kill herself, says Mr. Lin, 34, a regional director for InterVarsity, a college ministry that has 843 chapters in the U.S. Mr. Lin adds that both parents cut off all communication with him for seven years, reconnecting only after his mother was diagnosed with cancer. (She died in 2002.) Mr. Lin says his choices were "shaming" to the values held within many immigrant cultures. His parents "moved to America for material prosperity," says Mr. Lin. "When children forsake the very reason they came to this country, it's particularly devastating."

(snip)

The embrace of Islam by young people can be confounding to secular Muslim-Americans who immigrated to the United States in the 1960s and 1970s. "Our parents were more culturally Muslim than religious," says Farhan Latif, the former president of the Muslim Students Association at the University of Michigan's Dearborn campus and the alumni adviser to the chapter. But in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks -- and the racial profiling of Muslims that ensued -- some young people have gravitated toward their religion as a show of ancestral pride and an act of defiance against a society they see as discriminatory. Young Muslims, for example, says it has seen participation double since 2000 to more than 1,000 people. Growing up in a Pakistani neighborhood in London, Ershen Ali, 21, says he shied away from embracing his religion because, he says, he associated it with "a lot of hypocrisy." He says he routinely witnessed self-proclaimed devout Muslims drinking alcohol, a violation of the Quran. While attending Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles, he joined the Muslim Students Association and began to learn more about "true" Islam, he says. He now considers himself religious, praying four or five times a day. When planning a recent road trip, he consulted Google to find a mosque in Wyoming. Mr. Ali says his father, Rashid Ali, has greeted his religious transformation nervously. "My dad is always like, 'Keep it on the down low,'" says Ershen, a management trainee at a supply-chain management company in Los Angeles.

(snip)

Young people gravitating toward orthodoxy is also an emergent issue in the Orthodox Jewish community. There is even a minilexicon of terms to characterize the movement. Baal Teshuva (Hebrew for "master of return") is the name Orthodox Jews give to secular Jews who are changing their lives to live like and among the frum -- a Yiddish word describing observant Jews. Strict Orthodox Jews tend to live in close-knit communities, dress in a conservative fashion and strive to observe all of the Torah's 613 laws. There's even an Orthodox shorthand that includes terms like "BT" (Baal Teshuva) "FFB" (frum from birth).

Few issues create more tension for families comprised of people with different religious commitments than religious holidays and family celebrations. Last year, Philip Ackerman of Palm Beach Gardens, Fla., and his wife wanted to take their three children and all of their grandchildren on a cruise to celebrate his 70th birthday. Among Mr. Ackerman's children is Azriela Jaffe, who is a BT and the author of a book about how newly observant Jews can get along with their less-observant relatives, "What Do You Mean, You Can't Eat in My Home?" Because the cruise ship didn't offer kosher food, and the itinerary would require travel on the Jewish Sabbath, Mrs. Jaffe and her family declined the invitation. The Jaffes celebrate Jewish holidays separately from their extended family because they aren't observant. Secular holidays such as Thanksgiving are celebrated together when everyone travels to the Jaffes' kosher home in Highland Park, N.J. "There is no compromise. It's her way or the highway," Mr. Ackerman said during a phone interview before abruptly hanging up at his wife's urging.

(snip)


URL for this article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB117280201669024334.html (subscription)

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Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't believe it.
Any stats to back this shit up, or is this just propaganda from the WSJ.

I know this country seems like it's slipping back into the 12th century sometimes, but I can't believe it's the kids.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I do NOT believe the point is young people can becoming more Religious
But that when they do, it causes strain with their more secular parents. It is an interesting topic in itself.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. This is real
I actually know one family that is being described here.. I was not aware of the friction with the child but recognized the family.

The sad reality is that children do need set boundaries. In previous generations it was church or a strict set of rules on how to behave, what was "right" and "wrong."

Then the baby boomers of the 60s rebelled against the establishment, any establishment, and chose to be friends to their children who, some of them apparently, went to seek some kind of rules of behavior and found religion.

This is why we have extremists everywhere. The Evangelicals in this country, the extreme Muslims in Europe and in the Middle East, the extreme Jews in Israel. We know that the Shah of Iran was a ruthless dictator, but I remember how amazed I was when secular, professional women chose Khomeini and his dictates of where a woman's place was.

Who could have imagined that after WWII, at least, with so many new democracies and freedom of the press and religion everywhere, that the next generation would choose to turn to stifling religions?

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LongTomH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I don't think this is a trend.
Basically, it's just a few examples. The problem with 'anecdotal' evidence is, that you can find examples to justify just about any point of view.

Here are some excerpt from an article posted on the ReligiousTolerance.org site:

"There does not seem to be revival taking place in America. Whether that is measured by church attendance, born again status, or theological purity, the statistics simply do not reflect a surge of any noticeable proportions." George Barna.


"...evangelicals remain just 7% of the adult population. That number has not changed since the Barna Group began measuring the size of the evangelical public in 1994....less than one out of five born again adults (18%) meet the evangelical criteria. " (N = 1003; margin of error = ±3.2%).


The United States appears to be going through an unprecedented change in religious practices. Large numbers of American adults are disaffiliating themselves from Christianity and from other organized religions. Since World War II, this process had been observed in other countries, like the U.K., other European countries, Australia, Canada, and New Zealand. But, until recently, affiliation with Christianity had been at a high level -- about 87% -- and stable in the U.S.


The rest of the article is here: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_prac2.htm

Here's a DU thread from 2005 that comes to some of the same conclusions:
Generation Y embraces choice, redefines religion
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
25. The youth trend is toward atheism and agnosticism.
Edited on Mon Mar-12-07 08:22 PM by Eric J in MN
Survey of 18-25 year olds found them "less religious than their elders (with 20 percent of them professing no religion or atheism or agnosticism)."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/11/magazine/11wwlnlede.t.html
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qwlauren35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. Why the 12th century?
You must be extremely anti-religion. There is nothing wrong with exploring a religion or CHOOSING to adhere to its tenets.

As for the "you're going to hell" thing... it's what they believe. (I've been told that I'm going to hell enough times to be used to it. It used to bother me, but I've gotten past it. It's just someone's unsubstantiated belief.)

Creationism also has been developing a following for years, but a lot of people don't see how it is occurring. There are two creation stories in Genesis. There is the "7 Day" story and the "Adam & Eve" story. Most creationists believe in the 7 day story, but also believe that a "day" for God is not the same as a day for us on Earth. It is just a way of saying that things progressed in a certain order, and that there was a divine hand in it.

The alternative, that there was NO divine hand in the creation of life, is just too atheistic for some people.

There is tremendous beauty and peace to be found in religion. Those who are not religious are often quick to point out how often religion is co-opted into a way of condemning differences, harrassing, violating, persecuting and killing others. But that IS co-opting. The message of Jesus has nothing in it about killing others (that's Paul!) You'll also find little in the way of violence among orthodox Jews, and even Islam is a religion that believes in negotiation and law over violence.

I think you don't give enough credit to today's young people. Most converts have had lots of opportunity to seriously think about religion and make informed religious choices. This is very different from the religion of the 12th century.
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Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. OK.. not the 12th Century...
Maybe the 10th Century!

Some say the fastest growing religion in the US is..... Wicca.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_prac2.htm

Others say the fastest growing religion is Islam.

Others say it's the Evangelicals/Pentecostals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentecostalism

Like I said... 10th Century.

You said:

"Most converts have had lots of opportunity to seriously think about religion and make informed religious choices. This is very different from the religion of the 12th century."

I can't disagree more. Converts generally make choices based on emotion.... not reason. The new church/religion just "feels right", or makes them "feel good", or fulfills some emotional need. Or they inherit their religion. (Islam is growing fast, at least partly because of a birthrate twice that of other religions in the US.)

The film " Jesus Camp" is an example of what I'm talking about.

You certainly are right about one thing.... I am against religion. 12 years of Catholic education, including 4 years of Jesuit High School, taught me a LOT about religion. The Jebbies taught me a lot of History, but I thank them most for teaching me to think critically.

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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. evangelical Christians have been targeting children, brainwashing them
into thinking that Christianity, especially the fundie version, is rebellious, is cool, and is somehow counterculture.

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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
5. Kids rebel? This is news?
In MY day, teens flocked to B'Hai and Buddhism and Hari Krishna got some of 'em.

Kids usually "break" with family traditions to go their OWN way..

Peer pressure is a powerful force, and kids want to experiment with new ideas and philosophies.

Some will stay with their new-found ideas/faiths, and some will find their way back..

parents need to chill..
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 04:11 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. You forgot Poland.
Sorry, I meant: Don't forget est, and Scientology (before anybody knew what it was), and all that other crazy-ass "I Found It!" bullshit. Those recruiters staked out high schools like pedophiles on crack.
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Absolutely.
This is a form of rebellion. All teens need something to rebel against.

If we teach our children how to think rather than what to think, some of the rebellion will wear off as they grow.

I don't think this worries me much. I don't see a trend.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. We were "easy" parents.. Once when my rebellious one
"threatened" to pierce his ear and grow his hair long, I said.."Hey go for it..I used to date guys whose hair was so long they could almost sit on it"..and pierced ears are no biggie.. He did neither :)
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. I know...I'm hoping my son will pierce his ear when he's a teen.
I think it's cute on guys.

No tattoos, though. :scared:
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
6. This is real
I'm a T.A. at USF. I'm 23, so most of my students are in the 18-24 yrs. old range... and we talk informally about a lot of things. Guess what? Many of my students are into Christian missionary work and that stuff. Curiously enough, most of them are very religious people with liberal attitudes when it comes to sex, marriage and civil rights at the same time...
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
9. This does not suprise me at all.
My generation is rebelling against the boomers' rebelling! :rofl:
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
10. It's gone in the other direction for years.
I know it kills my Catholic mother-in-law that I'm raising her grandkids to be secular humanists -- such is life.
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Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
12. Another input....
on this whole generational religion thing....

I watching the news the other night - a piece on Iraq - and they showed a clip of US soldiers headed out on patrol. They all gathered 'round, joined hands, and prayed together before heading out.

Never happened before any (Marine) patrol I was ever on, or saw, or even heard of, in Vietnam. Anybody remember it different?



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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. One reason may be that many of these volunteers
soldiers are from a more conservative background. Recently I posted a story about how ROTC moved from inner cities to rural areas, mostly in the south, were it was more welcomed. This, even though inner NYC, for example, has so many people with background more fitting to the type of encounters that today's troops meet.
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Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. We were all volunteers....
... Marines. Lots of guys from Texas and the South. Lots of rural guys.

I'm not just arguing with you... I'm just trying to find how these guys are so much different than we were.
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Reverend_Smitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
14. I think a lot of it comes from where you live...
So if your parents are agnostic hippies but you live in the Midwest bible belt and your classmates are a bunch of Fundies, it's quite easy to fall into that crowd. I'm not too far removed from high school yet I grew up on the "Godless east coast" and most people I came across that were my age were the Agnostic-Humanist type. I wouldn't believe it until I saw the numbers to back it up
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HarukaTheTrophyWife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Yeah same here. Of course, I come from pretty much the same background as you.
Most of the kids I went to school with were from Jewish or Catholic families. A lot of us went to stuff at the Presbyterian Church because they had fun stuff going on for teens with very little (if any God) involved. There were a couple fundie families, but their kids all tended to be running from the church.

Overall, we were pretty much non-religious and still are.
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Reverend_Smitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I grew up with a ton of lapsed Catholics...
Me being one of them. Even in my most religious period (7th-8th grade) I was in Catholic school and was a member of the youth group, yet I was far from what anyone would call religious. When I was in high school we started up a Philosophy Club any one could join and discuss whatever was on their mind, it just so happened that all the lefty pinkos like myself showed up. One week this fundie kid showed up and didn't say a word and we found out a day or two later that he started a Christian club that met at the exact same time as our club. I guess we offended him...lol

Despite my self-admitted Agnosticism (mine and all of my friends), I/we still won't eat meat on Fridays during Lent. It's f'in crazy I know but the guilt never completely leaves me.

Although I've always been quite interested in religion in general, I was about a semester shy credit wise of having a minor in it.
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HarukaTheTrophyWife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Hahahaha...you are SO Catholic.
I'm the same way. Well, I don't eat meat anyway, but I'm very culturally Catholic. So is LostinVA. We joke about it all the time.
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Reverend_Smitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Culturally Catholic is a good way to put it...
I'm half Irish on my mom's side, I feel guilty during Lent, go to church twice a year, am usually found wearing some type of cross around my neck and can recite any of the creeds or prayers found in the typical mass at the drop of a hat. Yet I find 99% of the religious dogma to be total crap
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
23. There's going to be a Spiritual rebirth
in this country. People are seeing far too much death, and have no control over their lives, plus the baby boomers are looking at their mortality, so they'll all move in Some Direction..

Let's hope it's a SANE mix, of liberal religious views and not too much Fervor, or nutty kind.

Just a prediction, and I've been writing a book that leans towards having SOME faith or Spirituality, which every human has somewhere in their hearts, personally I believe in Gravity, as when I drop something it falls, and all of life will be FLAT some day and recycled because of it :)
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
24. religion is going to be the cause of the ultimate downfall of civilization.
until humans can give up their mythological crutches, our species will never be able to walk itself forward.
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