My boys (9 and 7) have had their heads turned by military commercials on TV

[GreenPartyVoter]

lately and I can see them thinking that being in the Army etc would be cool. I've been watching a lot of M*A*S*H lately and when they are around I point out the injured guys and say, "That's why Mommy doesn't want you to be in the military. Either that will be you, or someone you had to shoot at or bomb."

Honestly, the way the ** junta talks I think we will still be in Iraq when my kids are big enough to serve. I am trying to teach them that our (well, mine anyway) faith does not condone war. I am hoping to get that to stick in their little heads and hearts.

[truebrit71]

1. Show 'em 'Saving Private Ryan'....just the first 20 minutes...that should just about do it...

...that should disabuse them of the notion of the nobility and 'coolness' of war...

[GreenPartyVoter]

10. When they are older, that's the next step. Apocalypse Now and Platoon too maybe

Although to be honest. My lil bro watched all the Viet Nam war movies and he still thought they were glorious somehow. Fortunately, he never went into the service though.

[cgrindley]

23. Every war movie is a pro war movie

Saving Private Ryan, Apocalypse Now, Full Metal Jacket, Platoon, Deer Hunter... these films all glorify war by being really freaking cool. The opening 20 minutes of Ryan is staggeringly exciting filmmaking. It's a rush to get up the beach and you're practically rooting for the good guys to capture the beach head. It's an intense thrill.

The whole movie is that way... from the mad phat skillz of Barry Pepper's sniper to the Mustang's victory roll over the blown out tanks at the film's close.

If you want to put a child off war... don't think you can do it with Hollywood. Even such heavy handed attempts such as the DW Griffiths allusion in the helicopter gunship attack in Apocalypse Now (the Wagner is from the original music for the Klan Ride in Birth of a Nation), don't work because the material is sooooo sweet.

Watching MASH, by the way, will want him to a) drink martinis, b) screw nurses, and c) kill Alan Alda for turning a good show into a weepy pile of sanctimonious crap.

[Javaman]

35. Actaully, staticially speaking every war movie is anti-war

Unless you watch only john wayne movies.

It's hard to show the positive image of war when people are getting blown to bits.

[cgrindley]

54. Au contraire

In the theatre, people applaud. It's all about the audience.

Did you see Full Metal Jacket in the theater on opening night? I sure did. Ditto Saving Private Ryan. Ditto Platoon. These movies are intensely popular and stir all manner of emotion in an audience--all manner of emtoion except for anything even remotely anti-war. People yelled out in glee when Taylor killed Barnes in Platoon. Even Letters from Iwo Jima glorified at least the heroism and humanity of the Japanese in the face of impossible odds.

I didn't mention anything but films considered to be canonically anti-war, and none of them function as anti-war films. The first time a kid sees The Deer Hunter, provided he or she makes it through the intensely flatulent opening hour, he or she will bow down in awe of the incredible cool of De Niro's game of Russian roulette. No one stops to think through the horror and desperation of his act.

You want an anti-war film? Maybe Strangelove? Maybe Paths of Glory?

The problem is that you're privileging authorial intent, which is an error when considering the reception of film and its use as a pedagogical tool. As far as its message goes, the public may be stupid or poorly educated or simply incapable of properly reading a film. Other times, they may disagree with your pedagogy and apply their own critical filter to the experience, a critical filter that may be opposed to your own.

[Javaman]

80. Look I'm not going to go into it...

but I was a film/psychology major. I know of what I speak.

but if you wish to feel the way you do, that's your right.

[cgrindley]

81. Go on

This will be interesting.

Are you attempting to argue that some sort of critical auteur theory somehow supercedes reception theory when you're actually discussing using film as a pedagogical instrument?

[Javaman]

86. You are apparently scrapting for an argument, I choose not to go there.

Have a nice day.

[RaleighNCDUer]

62. Paths of Glory. nt

[cgrindley]

63. Yup

One of the few that really is anti-war.

[kath]

84. Perhaps the best anti-war movie ever...

[Raven]

2. It's too early for this with your boys, but

wait until they get to High School and the recruiters start to follow them around. This happened to my son in HS and they were very seductive...money for school and all of that. I insisted that any meeting with a recruiter happen at my house in my presence...they didn't like that and they backed off.

[quinnox]

3. boys like war stuff

i think you have to accept that and not try to make them too feminine IMHO They are going to like playing with soldiers and making battles and so on, it might be a mistake to try and make them like girls stuff instead.

[Zodiak]

4. Funny how "girl stuff" was never mentioned

but that would get in the way of a great sexist strawman argument, wouldn't it?

[LostinVA]

14. Beat me to it n/t

[ScreamingMeemie]

6. "not try to make them too feminine"

Wow. Man, I don't know where to begin with that. One, there is nothing wrong for a little boy to like "girls stuff", because, in my household, there is no delineation. As long as it's safe, he can play with it. Two, I think you missed her point completely. But what do I know, I'm a girl.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

9. OMFG.

Read my subject line.

:rofl:

[ScreamingMeemie]

28. Ha!

:rofl: GMTA and all that.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

7. "not try to make them too feminine?"

I agree with letting kids like what they like, but what would be wrong if the boys were feminine?

I'm a girl and I liked war stuff. Should my parents have tried to make me feminine?

I agree that it's a mistake to try to make kids like something they're not interested in, but your post comes off weird.

[quinnox]

13. maybe it is a male - female thing

maybe on this issue the men might see things differently than the woman

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

21. I don't think it's a male-female thing.

I think it's a misogynist/homophobic thing.

Honestly, if you had a son who was interested in girly things, would you try to make him play with masculine things? If so, why?

What's wrong with just letting kids play with what they want?

[quinnox]

24. I don't want to stray too far off the topic

but the questions you are asking are more of a personal parenting preference IMHO. I think some moms would not want their boys too feminine, that they would like their boys to have the masculine part emphasized as boys.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

26. And parents should just let their kids be kids and play with what they're interested in.

If a son wants to take dance classes, and the daughter wants to play peewee football, what's wrong with it? A parent should just want their kid to be happy. Neither activity is harmful for the child and should be encouraged.

You still haven't answered my questions, btw. I'd like to know the answers, especially the why.

[quinnox]

30. the questions

aren't relevant that is why I don't answer them. Like I said, it comes down to personal choices. Maybe your way is not the way that is right for everyone, perhaps you should consider that.

[ScreamingMeemie]

31. quinnox, you made an assumption.

Take everything away and look at your post, whether we agree with you on playing with girl's stuff (whatever the heck that is) or not. Where did GPV even broach that?

[quinnox]

38. right

I brought it up that is true.

[ScreamingMeemie]

42. I think you are, perhaps, on the wrong thread... perhaps

even the wrong board.

Did you want to answer some questions or not? You seem to be sidestepping...again.

[quinnox]

44. I just answered

look down below. But anyway, you don't have any authority to determine who is or isn't on the right board. Come on, your threats are not meaningful, seriously.

[ScreamingMeemie]

49. Did I threaten you???

I thought something. Hmmmm... A thought=a threat. I don't think so and no you've answered nothing yet. Your post to the OP was totally off.

[quinnox]

53. yes in a manner

I know you have been a mod in the past so when you say that it carries more weight, maybe you will be mod again in future and have a vendetta or something.

[LostinVA]

77. MrsG isn't Sicilian

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

34. I think the questions are quite relevant to what YOU posted.

Of course, what you posted wasn't relevant at all to the OP. I was responding to YOU and not the OP.

What's not right about allowing children to participating in what they enjoy, provided it's not harmful? Shouldn't parents want their kids to enjoy their childhood and not be forced to do stuff they don't want to play with?

I'd still like an answer to my original relevant questions.

[quinnox]

41. nothing is wrong with it

That is the point I was making about the military commercials, that it isn't something to be worried about.

[GreenPartyVoter]

46. Well the reason why the commercials worry me is

I am a firm believer in the idea that we absorb everything we are exposed to in our subconscious minds. I just don't want those kinds of images stewing around in the back of their heads where they one day add up to a desire to enlist.

[quinnox]

48. I understand

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

50. Wow. I haven't seen this much sidestepping since the last time I watched line dancing.

You haven't answered my questions still. Here they are again:

"Honestly, if you had a son who was interested in girly things, would you try to make him play with masculine things? If so, why?"

[quinnox]

52. let me be blunt

Since my answers aren't apparently being received. That question I won't answer, because it isn't relevant and additionally it isn't your business either. You know, just because it is the internet doesn't mean you should be impertinent and ask rude questions that are private.

What if I asked you a personal question, do you think you should be forced to answer it on an anonymous message board where you don't even know the people?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

55. It's okay.

Your silence regarding the questions and your posting history pretty much answer them.

And I don't exactly consider my relevant questions rude or personal. They ARE relevant to what you posted. It's a public message board. You should expect people to call you on your postings. Don't get pissed when they do.

[Occulus]

60. my own piece of shit parents thought like you do

They went well out of their way to keep me out of music (something they apparently saw as 'too feminine' for a little boy to be interested in) when I was a kid. This, despite knowing beyond doubt I had natural musical talent (I know this because my mom was brazen enough to admit it three or so years ago). Once I discovered it, I enjoyed life for about seven or eight years, until they found out I was gay, threw me out of the house, and later, yanked my school funding.

Was it a coincidence they did these things after discovering I wasn't, to their minds, masculine enough? I think not.

I truly hope your kids end up less scarred than I am. I seriously doubt that will be the case if you keep the attitude you have right now.

Let your kids do and be what they want in life or suffer the consequences of your own shitty parenting techniques.

[Hav]

64. .

Wow, that's bad. I feel sorry for you.
My parents more or less made me go learn play the violin when I was young. At the time, I didn't know to appreciate it and stopped when we moved. I so wished I hadn't stopped playing it as pretty much all I ever learned was gone when my parents bought me a violin several years later after they got to know that I wanted to try it again. They also always tried to support me when it came to music like buying quite an expensive keyboard and I know that it was very much money for my family.

Damn, I had many problems with my parents, who doesn't. But I always knew that they could have been so much worse.

[quinnox]

76. I never said music wasn't manly

I'm sorry to hear of your experience but I think music is great and an art and would be happy or proud if any kid went into it.

[China_cat]

33. Maybe you ought to also look at the numbers

of women in Iraq who are not only getting shot at and bombed by the Iraqis but beaten up, raped and murdered by our own men...who 'might see things diffently than the woman'. Sure, kings of the universe and if you don't have 2 oz. of genitals protruding from your crotch you're furniture to be used.

[BlackVelvet04]

8. Teaching children that war isn't

"cool" is feminizing them?

[quinnox]

12. no what I meant is

it would be a mistake IMHO if the parent tries to make the boys play with dolls and girls stuff and that they should let the boys play with the war machines or like the military commercials and not be overly concerned by it.

[ScreamingMeemie]

27. Hold up a minute. Where did GPV say she was trying to make

her boys play with dolls and girl stuff? I mean, God forbid they do that. :sarcasm:

[RaleighNCDUer]

65. OTOH, you could teach your children to mistrust and disregard

ALL commercials -- to learn to understand that commercials are ALL selling something, and sometimes what is being sold is not the advertised product.

Being a conscious consumer starts early.

[GreenPartyVoter]

72. That is a good idea.

[BlackVelvet04]

83. Well I don't think that keeping boys from playing

with war stuff means they have to play with dolls. There's a lot of other stuff to play with. I used to play with cars, trucks and transformers with my nephews.

[LostinVA]

17. That's what it sounds like to me, too

But, I suspect the poster knows exactly what they're saying.

[GreenPartyVoter]

15. Well, they like what they like. I don't steer them toward or away from anything

unless I think it's dangerous.

[Hav]

16. .

Lol :popcorn:.

Even though I wouldn't have expressed it like you, I had similar thoughts. It seems pretty normal when boys are interested in this "war stuff" or toy guns. When I was a kid, I really liked to play with toy guns, as did many other kids my age. Yet, I'm anything but a violent person and despise war. I simply grew up and at one point just found it stupid.
I wouldn't be worried when kids at the age of 7 or 9 act like that. It might be sad, but apparently that seems to be a normal part of the role one plays(?) when growing up.
However, as a parent one can, of course, still tell their kids things like not directing the toy guns at other peeps (like the father of my friend always did) or generally how horrible war and violence is.

[GreenPartyVoter]

59. To be honest, my folks did not let my lil bro have guns for a while as a kid but

guess what, he stuck out his forefinger and thumb and went "bang! bang!" all around the neighborhood. So they caved and gave him cap guns and little green army guys.

And he turned out ok. :) So there's hope for mine too, I guess.

[Sequoia]

56. Girl stuff....like cooking and sewing?

All boys should learn to cook and sew and pick up their socks. It's not a wife's job to do it for you. I played war games as a kid "Combat" tv show of all things. I have a nephew who loved to play at cooking and his dad and some other family members were worried that he'd turn "girlie". I couldn't beleive it. Now, both nephews are cooking and it's okay, because being a chef is considered cool these days and even he-men are doing it.

[erpowers]

70. Yup, You Missed the Point

In my opinion the poster was not saying they were trying to make their boys like girl stuff. The person was saying that they themselves did not believe military service was the right thing. Since military commericals had been catching the eyes of the OP's sons they were wondering how they would be able to instill their value about military service into their children. They were not trying to make their sons like girl stuff.

In addition, I am not trying to be mean, but since when has the military been boy stuff? There are many girls who grew up loving the military and many aspects of the military. Also there are many girls who have fought and died in wars, even the latest wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The OP was just saying they did not want their kids to go to the military. There are many male and female parents who worry about their sons and daugthers going into the military. I know one girl whose father asked her not to join the Army. Not her mother, but her father. I think her dad had been in the military and just did not want his kid to follow in his footsteps.

[SmokingJacket]

73. It's not a matter of "girl stuff" or "boy stuff"

My boys are the same age, have no interest in "girl stuff" at all, are into technology, superheroes, science, and nature... and are total pacifists. They're like their dad: they just don't like to hit or hurt people.

It's possible to be all-boy but not want to kill people.

[kath]

85. Sexist, gender-stereotyped child-rearing attitudes like yours make me want to

:puke: :puke: :puke:

[The2ndWheel]

5. That's why billions of dollars are invested

into the brains of children. There will only be more money invested into them as we go. Once the state and/or corporation controls that, everything else is gravy.

[Red Zelda]

11. WTF???

They're 7 and 9 and not in Iraq yet?????
/sarcasm

[GreenPartyVoter]

18. Well, as Cub Scouts they are members of the Inactive Ready Reserve I imagine

[theboss]

19. I had a plastic arsenal when I was 7

I had some fake M-16s, a few Uzis, a couple of different pistols, and a green army jacket that I demanded for my 6th birthday.

And I ended up at a liberal northeast college being taught by godless multiculturalists.

I don't necessarily think you have a lot to worry about. Little boys love to "Play Army." Doesn't mean that they are going to enlist.

[GreenPartyVoter]

20. True. But I worry about it nonetheless. :^(

[Midlodemocrat]

22. My middle brother played 'war' all the time as a child and grew up

to be the biggest pacifist on the planet.

I understand how it's upsetting, I have a son myself. He now realizes at 14 that war is not the answer to anything. He's seen too many graphic pics on DU, me thinks.

[populistdriven]

25. Get someone to convincingly tell him his best friend was killed in a car accident

Let him stew for 10 minutes then tell him imagine that pain x 1000 fold.

Become a drill Sargent for 1 week and tell him when he can wake up, go to sleep, eat, use bathroom, apply punishment, log time and pay prorated pay based on typical private pay assuming 18 hour work days. Make him stand at attention for 2 hours etc.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

29. That's fucked up.

:puke:

[noamnety]

61. I wouldn't do that, BUT

I WOULD make an agreement that if he does a chore, like taking out the trash, he can have a reward - let's say a piece of chocolate. Write it out, like a contract, with that part in nice big letters. In tiny print on the back, put "anything in the contract can be changed at any time by the parent."

Let him take out the trash. Then tell him he can't have the chocolate. Let him think about how unfair that is.

Then show him the actual enlistment contract where it says the same thing, and explain how that works in the real world.

That way, you aren't traumatizing him, but you're giving him a real world example of how the government uses people, and doesn't make good in their promises.

[Hav]

67. .

And then, when he wants out after the period of time he was promised he could leave, extend his "duties" for 20 years...obviously it's legal.

[aikoaiko]

32. Using fear tactics may only serve to make you look cowardly.

By the time I was 7 or 9 and my pacifist parents were telling me such things, I realized they were being fearful and easily dismissed.

[GreenPartyVoter]

36. It would be fear tactics if I was only telling them I don't

want them to be hurt. But I am as much against them harming others.

[aikoaiko]

91. Perhaps, but when my parents talked about not huritng others it still

came across as fear based.

Perhaps you'll do it better than my parents though.

[havocmom]

37. Keep an eye on changes in recruiters' access to minors

Make sure you understand how to opt-out (and it has to be pro-active, some schools don't mention ANYTHING about it) in time to prevent the schools from giving your children's contact info to recruiters. Last I heard, they couldn't call on kids under fifteen and a half, but there have been some reports of recruiters talking in schools to kids as young as 10 - 12.

NCLB requires that ALL schools provide contact info for kids in high school to recruiters, UNLESS the parents pro-actively file the paper work to prevent it.

Make sure and do that as soon as you have to. Make sure to get the word out.

And ask around any local anti-war vets group to see if there are any vets who might be good at speaking to children to lay out some truth, in a age appropriate manner, to counter the propaganda on TV.

They are hitting kids at a time when it is natural for some friction between parent and adolescent. They are able to do it COMPLETELY without the parents knowledge. Recruiters court minors for a couple years and then when the kid turns 18, they can sign them up without the parents haveing any clue of the brainwashing and empty promises that may have gone on.

Get ahead of the game. Find out the details and find out what schools in your area require to opt out.

Spread the word. Do not let your youngsters fall prey to unscrupulous recruitment tactics that may be going on in your area.

If America really needs to go to war, I have no doubt America will show up for it. The military is a good an honorable profession and just the thing for some. But NOT with the present criminals in power! The very fact that they are allowing such meddling in the raising of YOUR children is proof enough that this war is not required. When they have to trick young people into signing their lives away, they do not have just cause. When they have to make laws so they can hide what they are doing, they damn well KNOW it's wrong!

[GreenPartyVoter]

43. All good info. My dad is a vet and knows combat vets so no trouble there. We live

in a fairly progressive community, but we do have a maritime academy in town and the middies do look smart in their regimentals.

I'll just have to stay on my toes, as you said.

[NNN0LHI]

39. If we aren't in Iraq when the time comes we will be somewheres else

My advice would be to put on the full court press to discourage your kids from the military before it is too late. I would consider that my duty as a parent.

Don

[GreenPartyVoter]

40. I am trying to get the foundations laid for CO status, although perhaps

that won't be honored by the time they are of age.

[NNN0LHI]

45. I wouldn't chance my childs life with an attempt to get CO status

My kid would have a ironclad medical case that showed he wasn't physically fit to be drafted if it ever came down to that.

Don

[GreenPartyVoter]

47. Well, God knows I wouldn't wish my colitis or bipolar on them. I hope whatever it is

that would disqualify them for duty (and I hear these days a lot of stuff is being waived as they need bodies for the meat grinder) isn't too awful for them. :(

[RedCappedBandit]

51. Military commercials catch my eye

I often catch myself daydreaming about being a "warrior"

I guess thats part of being a 19 year old in this culture, though :p

[GreenPartyVoter]

57. True. We are a culture that embraces brutality.

[Skidmore]

58. I asked my 21 year old son when he wanted

to sign up 3 years ago if he could really point a gun at someone and pull the trigger upon command. He said yes at first hesitantly. Then when he said that it was the Air Force he'd be signing up for. I asked him if he could really drop a bomb or fire a missile that could kill many and perhaps indiscriminately upon commnand. He didn't really answer. A few weeks later, he informed me that he'd be looking for work and pay off his student loans that way.

[ReadTomPaine]

66. Having them watch MASH is a good start.

Frank Burns is the perfect anti-role model. Redirecting these impulses into fantasy or historical interests is also a good bet if they still have a hunger for that type of material (Lord of the Rings, Romans, King Arthur etc). Ridicule those recruitment commercials in front of them at every opportunity - they are as truthful as an Enzyte commercial.

If all else fails you could always show them a book of *real* war injuries and scare them straight.

My own nephew just joined the Marines because he bought those lies wholesale. He refuses to believe they will station him anywhere but here in the states or similar, because the nice man in the uniform told him so.

[GreenPartyVoter]

74. Heh. Frank just left the show and Charles has arrived. But I am sure they will cycle back around

to the beginning again.

I am so sorry about your nephew. That is exactly what I am afraid of. :hug:

[ReadTomPaine]

78. I've been re-watching them as well.

Great show. Didn't realize how much I'd missed it. Perfectly relevant today.

Tavis Smiley had Mike Farrell on over the weekend for a great segment - as I'm sure you already know, Mike Farrell is an outspoken liberal and it was a pleasure to hear him talk about MASH, his career and politics. Tavis mentioned he's been watching them again as well.

[GreenPartyVoter]

79. Yah, I didn't see that Tavis show but I have heard that Mike is very outspoken

for liberal causes.

And yeah, M*A*S*H is still so relevant. And still very entertaining to boot. My kids aren't really sitting down and watching it with me, but they are around and sort of tune it in every so often.

[paparush]

68. kill Kill KILL K I L L (your television)

Its doing you absolutely no good.

[Hippo_Tron]

69. I wanted to join the army at that age too

Hopefully they will either grow out of it or choose to serve under a decent president.

[noonwitch]

71. Just don't encourage them to disrespect those who do serve

The military is an honorable career for many people, or a good job for a few years when one is young.

So many men in my family have served honorably. My dad served in the Army in Korea right after the war. His platoon did border patrol, and spent a lot of time stringing phone lines around South Korea.

My great-uncle, who died a few years ago, was a Sea Bee in WWII. He was a hero, both during and after the war (he was a cop).

Another great-uncle served in the Navy during WWII, a cousin or two served in Vietnam and I have a childhood friend who made a career out of serving in the Marine Corps.

If your boys end up wanting to be astronauts or pilots, it's hard to avoid the military anyways.

[GreenPartyVoter]

75. My family has a long history of serving. My brother was the first

not to serve. I have nothing against military people. It's just the idea of kill and/or be killed that bothers me, especially if they are doing it for all the wrong reasons as is the case in our current quagmire. :(

[rman]

82. "Before You Enlist"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fkkdoDOIJM

"You quickly learn that at any second you can be dead - for real dead, not movie dead."

[kath]

87. Project YANO has some very good materials. I really like their pamphlet

called "What Young People Should Know Before Joining the Military: The Military's Not Just a Job, It's Eight Years of Your Life"

Lots of good reality-based material here.
http://www.projectyano.org/yano_resources.html#a

[kath]

88. Parents, have your teens comtemplate the lyrics to this Tom Paxton song:

THE WILLING CONSCRIPT
(Tom Paxton)

Oh sergeant, I'm a draftee and I've just arrived in camp
I've come to wear the uniform and join the martial tramp
And I want to do my duty, but one thing I do implore
You must give me lessons, sergeant, for I've never killed before

To do my job obediently is all that I desire
To learn my weapon thoroughly and how to aim and fire
To learn to kill the enemy and how to slaughter more
Oh I'll need instructions, Sergeant, for I've never killed before

Now there are rumors in the camp about our enemy
They say that when you see him, he looks just like you and me
But you deny it, Sergeant, and you're a man of war
So you must give me lessons, for I've never killed before

Now there are several lessons that I have not mastered yet
I haven't got the hang of how to use the bayonet
If he doesn't die at once, am I to stick him with it more?
Oh I hope you will be patient, for I've never killed before

And the hand grenade is something that I just don't understand
You've got to throw it quickly or you're apt to lose your hand
Does it blow a man to pieces with its wicked muffled roar?
Oh I've got so much to learn because I've never killed before

Well I want to thank you, Sergeant, for the help you've been to
me
You've taught me how to kill and how to hate the enemy
And I know that I'll be ready, when they march me off to war
And I know that it won't matter that I've never killed before

Copyright Cherry Lane Music Publishing Co., Inc.
@war @soldier @political
filename< WILLCONS[br />play.exe WILLCONS
sung by Paxton Ain't It News and Newport 63 Broadside
@war @soldier
SF

http://www.lyricsdownload.com/paxton-tom-willing-conscript-lyrics.html

[geniph]

89. You have another decade to present your viewpoint

I wouldn't worry too much about it just yet. I know a lot of little kids who wanted to play soldiers when they were little - both boys and girls - including myself - and only a handful actually ended up enlisting.

My husband, ex-Marine Vietnam combat veteran, and father of two sons, merely told the boys that they would not be enlisting before they were 18, and then made sure they knew his viewpoint of the military and of combat. The boys are in their 20s now, and neither is at all interested in playing war anymore.

By the way, all commercials are pretty fucked up for kids...I'd get them in the habit now of muting every commercial, every time. It's a lot harder for the advertisers of ANY product to suck them in without the catchy music, easily-memorized slogans, etc.

[GreenPartyVoter]

90. Thanks. That is a good point.

[treestar]

92. Those ads always make it look like no more than college

And there are all those notions of "glory."

When they are in their late teens, maybe have them read "All Quiet on the Western Front."