CNN: Kiley was actually fired

[FourScore]

"...I submitted my retirement because I think it is in the best interest of the Army,' Kiley said yesterday..."

SNIP

"...However, CNN reports that, according to a senior Pentagon official, 'Kiley was actually fired from his position..."

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Embattled_Walter_Reed_commander_submits_retirement_0312.html

[Nickster]

1. Because we all know how big the Pentagon is on accountability. n/t

[SaveOurDemocracy]

2. Cheney and Halliburton, in 1 form or another,

have their fingerprints all over everything. When will they be held accountable as the traitors and war profiteers they are?

[wicket]

3. They certainly do

These war profitteers are all traitors!!! :grr:

[northofdenali]

16. President Cheney and his little sidekick

have made sure the corporations now own this country. It may take a political revolution to change that. No more corporate welfare, no more outsourcing/tax breaks, no corporate donations to any political party or cause, etc.

Until that, and public financing of elections, is accomplished, we are all serfs in the Kingdom of Republicons.

[MADem]

4. He was asked for his letter. Called in, and told to drop papers.

That's FIRED. If he were to be accurate, he would have said "I submitted my retirement because Secretary Gates asked for it. He's the one who thinks it is in the best interest of the Army."

Gates is correct in this case.

The "senior Pentagon official" quoted above is likely Gates himself. He doesn't do press conferences like Rummy used to, with all the snark and pomp. He does "round tables" in his office with the press. No cameras, no gotchas, no hollered questions, no postured answers. Just plain talk. Mostly off the record.

[FourScore]

5. Interesting. Thanks. n/t

[northzax]

13. it does sure seem

that Gates is running the Pentagon by one simple rule: think of what Don Rumsfeld would do, and then do the exact opposite.

[FourScore]

15. Gates is certainly less self-indulgent. n/t

[MADem]

23. He's a Poppy pick. And his involvement in Iran-Contra might be a good thing, actually.

He's parlayed with the Iranians before, and had good-faith dealings (despite their flouting of US law, of course) with them.

Poppy is desperately trying to rescue Junior's legacy by telling him to hire sane people like Bolton (Josh, not Psycho Cap'n Kangaroo) and Dole/Shalala for the latest investigatory round. Gates is part of the package, too--a friend of Big George...

[sarge43]

14. If he were merely 'fired' ie relieved of duty, he'd been reassigned

as a pill counter at Ft Bumfuck with a letter of reprimand on file. He got better than he deserved - retirement with a full bennie package.

[MADem]

18. Not at Flag/General paygrades. He's not some major that they put on a desk answering phones

He's not accused of anything. He serves at the pleasure of the president, with authority delegated to SECDEF.

If a flag/general has "time to do" (meaning, leave to burn and hoops to jump through, like those idiotic orientation to CIVLANT programs they run) between dropping the letter and retirement, and there's no other issues, they either leave them attached to the unit in question, or more likely if they don't want two leaders hanging about the same area, attach them to the office of the CNO/Army/USAF COS/USMC Commandant. If they're leaving through no fault of their own, but simply because there's no job, they may run them over to a TAD assignment somewhere like the CNA (Centers for Naval Analysis) or some other thinkish-type planning sort of place.

But they don't do that kind of FT Bumfuck thing to senior leadership, unless they're facing charges, which this guy is not. That entire idea is absurd. Flag and General billets are very carefully monitored. They don't have any "spares" in the cupboard. There will be promotions as a result of this retirement, and very soon, too. The end strength is managed to the individual body at those levels.

[sarge43]

24. First of all, if there's no fault attached to him, why the bad mouth?

"He was told to retire." Short hand for get out of town before sundown. As for TAD assignment or some such, that's the flag officer's equiv of Ft Bumfuck. There are three things that can be done to a screwup flag - CM and no one has the balls for that, hide him in a dead end job until he gets the hint or hand him the retirement paperwork and a ballpoint pen.

[MADem]

25. One more time. He serves at the pleasure of the President, as all officers do.

If the president, or the president's designated representative, the SECDEF, is no longer pleased, that person is GONE. They don't HAVE to have done something "wrong." They don't have to have committed a "fault" or a "sin" or a "crime." That's what "pleasure of the President" entails. Gates wanted to show the American people that he is serious. He did it with this firing, and he made sure the public didn't miss the point by bad mouthing the guy off the record.

He's not ENLISTED. He isn't serving on a 'contract.' He's serving on a commission, that can be withdrawn at any moment. In an instant. Without any opportunity for redress.

And one more time--DOPMA mandates management down to individuals with regard to all flag/general billets. Because the costs are enormous, you see, in terms of housing, pay, personal staff, and so forth. That means, one more time, that there are no "spare" generals doing dead end jobs. No dead end work. It just is NOT done. They're placed on leave, they burn that up, and out the door they go.

The only time a flag or general is given a break (with a TAD assignment) is if the Service Secretary LIKES them--this isn't FT Bumfuck at ALL you see--and carries them on the books because they've been relieved by someone who is frocked, and that allows them to retire after the start of the new calendar year, when their retirement will be HIGHER because of the annual COLA increase. That's when that kind of thing happens.

If you are wearing stars on your shoulder, you ALREADY have sufficient time in to retire. Flag/General officers are in the twenty-something to forty year mark in terms of time in service.

Believe me, I know how the system works.

[Frustratedlady]

6. I suppose that means he has full retirement benefits?

We wouldn't want to punish his ineptitude by taking it away.

[FourScore]

7. I think they lose their retirement benefits when fired.

I believe they keep them when they resign. I could be wrong. Anyone know for sure?

[Solo_in_MD]

8. He is retireing, it would take a CM to have him lose his pension and other benefits

He will also keep his current rank

[MADem]

20. We went through this on another thread. Even if he was punished he would still keep his pension.

It would simply revert to last grade served at HONORABLY.

In this case, that isn't the case. He isn't charged with anything. He was asked to go home, and home he goes. He serves at the pleasure of the Monkey, and the Monkey isn't pleased. So that's that.

[Solo_in_MD]

26. IIRC my UCMJ correctly, there are crimes for which a pension and all rank can be stripped.

But that is not going to happen here.

You are correct. He retires and maybe goes into private practice.

[MADem]

27. Not if they happened AFTER the OFFICER (we are not talking enlisted contracts here)

has completed twenty honorable years. Enlisted people can be reduced to E-1 at a courts martial, and DD'd. You see it all the time.

The rules are different for commissioned officers. They generally lose the ranks at which they served DISHONORABLY, and/or they lose lineal numbers (promotion order, effectively ensuring they will never promote). They are heavily fined.

But if they've done 20 'good years' before they sinned, they get the check for those years. This guy has done well over 20. He's not charged with a thing. It's just "Go HOOOOOOME" (as Tracy Ulmann would say) time for him.

[Ganja Ninja]

10. It's probably more of a forced retirement.

He was fired but not court martialed. A court martial might have exposed some embarrassing information the Army and the Bush Administration doesn't want widely known. He'll get his full retirement and benefits.

[MADem]

22. No embarrassing info.He was inattentive to his duties, and they told him to go home.

His offenses were due to questions of competence, attentiveness, oversight, perhaps, but didn't rise to the level of deliberate mismanagement or malfeasance.

It's the Peter Principle. He was told to drop his letter, so he did. Off he goes to golf and collect a bigger check for doing nothing than most people make for doing something. And a hospital will hire him soon enough, I'd wager.

[MADem]

21. Not at all. See elsewhere in this thread. He gets his pension. NT

[soothsayer]

17. Of course he'll keep his big fat pension. It's a lock.

[MADem]

19. Yes. He dropped his letter. It doesn't matter what the impetus is. He gets full retirement. NT

[Norquist Nemesis]

9. Well, DUH!!!

It's the same dog and pony showstoppers that happen every day in corporate politics. Doesn't matter that it's the military since they report to the civilians who are *drum roll* corporatists.

[spanone]

11. So, does his pension stay intact? Bet it does.

[Solo_in_MD]

12. Apparently he was asked to retire, so yes they would