Father fatally shoots man he found with his teen daughter, police say

[TX-RAT]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4621139.html

[WI_DEM]

1. So the 27 year old man and 13 year old daughter fled and then the man came back

to talk with the parents. He was met by the father with a loaded shot gun and they spoke for a few minutes and then the father shot him. Seems to me the father and mother should have made sure that the cops were called and had them handle it.

[MH1]

9. Nah, that would be civilized. Can't have that. n/t

[LostinVA]

230. Absolutely -- the only reason for murdering someone is self defense

And, that wasn't the case here.

[Common Sense Party]

2. You mess with the bull, you get the horns.

I don't approve that the dad killed the guy. But I would have beaten him senseless, and made sure he knows not to mess around with 13-year-olds.

[MH1]

3. Two wrongs make a right? n/t

[slackmaster]

5. No, of course not but three do

:nuke:

[Hippo_Tron]

130. No, but if you're going to risk fooling around with a 13 year old...

You should realize that there may be deadly consequences.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

133. agree

nt

[sakabatou]

151. No, but three rights make a left

[Ioo]

244. Two Wrights Made and Airplane....

I would have shot the 27 year old that was screwing my 13 year old too, he would be lucky I did not "miss" a few times before I finished him.

[truebrit71]

6. Agreed.

Shooting him? Not so much...beat him til his balls fall off? Perfectly fine.

[Bluebear]

8. "beat him til his balls fall off? Perfectly fine." Well, that's progressive. nt

[truebrit71]

11. So is a 27 yr old banging a 13-yr old...REAL progressive..

...Nice knee-jerk reaction though.... :eyes:

[Bluebear]

14. The 27 year old isn't progressive. You supposedly are.

But if it makes you feel tough to talk about beating his balls off so be it.

[truebrit71]

49. As the father of a teenage daughter you're G/D right I'm not progressive....

..the only difference between me and this father is the fact I'd give the 27 yr-old about a 10 second head start before I come after him with my willow cricket bats...

[SemperEadem]

113. However

I'm sure that you've got an open line of communication with your 13 yr old daughter and you are not intimidated by talking to her about sex; why it's extremely unwise on many levels for her to have sex at her age, especially if there has been no reason for talk of birth control because of her age and why an unplanned pregancy, which could result in her being secretive like this, can seriously derail the timetable for what she has envisioned for her life; how it would damage your trust for her for a very long time if she were to go behind your back and sneak a grown man into your home to have sex with her.

Apparently, this father didn't have the advantages in his relationship wtih his daughter that I'm sure you do, which makes this whole tale so sad. Now, the dad will be prosecuted for at least 2nd degree murder; the focus is off the man who statutorily raped her and is now on this violent man; plus the girl is deprived of a father figure which she obviously desperately needs in her life.

Abandoning yourself to your emotion is a sure fire way of finding yourself in a pair of orange pajamas courtesy of the county jail. Satutory rape is still a crime in every state of the union--calling the cops to let them deal with it keeps you above reproach, which is what you would need to maintain credibility in everyone's eyes. Running out the house to beat the man with a cricket bat would lead the defense to paint you as a violent loon you daughter ran away from, and take the focus off of the guy statutorily raping your daughter.

[truebrit71]

115. Well yeah...

...i'd still kick his arse though...

;-)

[ComerPerro]

119. great parenting, by the way, if you're daughter is with a 27 year old.

[gollygee]

209. Children aren't responsible for being seduced and victimized by adults

She was 13 years old. She wasn't able to consent to this relationship.

[shain from kane]

13. How about if he had shot him in the groin, and one ball went left, and the other went right?

[Bluebear]

16. Yeah I'm impressed. nt

[Solo_in_MD]

19. You should see some of the other "progessive" comments in

this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x382315#382320

[lynne]

265. I'd just shoot his balls off -

- he'd still be breathing and I wouldn't work up a sweat. Giving that perv a beating appropriate for messing with my 13 yr old daughter would be waaayyy too much like work.

[treestar]

63. Just being in the house with her?

Because that's all they have proof of so far.

[Common Sense Party]

225. What the hell is a 27 year old MAN doing alone with a CHILD?

What do you THINK he's doing with her?

[951-Riverside]

4. Justice was served. eom

[John Q. Citizen]

12. Only if you support vigilante justice, though. I empathize with the fathers feelings

but I condemn his behavior.

Sounds like second degree murder, to me.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

25. Second degree murder in the least.

Given the father was waiting for him with a shotgun, there's a good argument for premeditation.

[kath]

38. waiting with a loaded shotgun = premeditation

if you ask me. Not done in the heat of the moment. Got the gun, loaded the gun. The guy had called on the phone to say he was coming over, so a fair amount of time likely passed. Father waited for him.

[TX-RAT]

44. I'm sure the DA will look at that.

You get some sympathetic jurors when the case involves children.

[NashVegas]

62. I'm Not Sure That Matters In Texas

Then again, you never know. The shotgun could have been intended as an invitation to a wedding party.

[ComerPerro]

124. no kidding. Premeditation all the way

[LostinVA]

231. Agreed -- first degree murder

The father amy very well get off, but he shouldn't. The mistreatment of his daughter does NOT excuse murdering someone. That's what the cops are for. They knew the guy was coming back to the house.

[frankenforpres]

90. jury trial

it may "Sound" like second degree murder. but i imagine, that to the jury, it will look like: not guilty.

[John Q. Citizen]

92. Naw, if he'd shot him and killed him in the act. maybe (if there was an act)

but the fact the guy called up and returned (apparently with the OK of the parents) doesn't qualify as anything like self defense.

The judge will instruct the jury that empathizing with the fathers feelings doesn't mean they can return a not guilty verdict.

[TX-RAT]

101. The judge will instruct the jury

He can instruct them all he wants, but they can still have sympathy for the father. There was a case in Dallas where a young boy was raped. As they were leading the suspect out of the court house, the father who was waiting by the phones, just walked up, and shot and killed him.

The verdict for the father was not guilty.

[John Q. Citizen]

114. But his defense had to be along the lines of temporary insanity.

The fact (as reported in the story) that the parents didn't call the cops after her daughter left with the 27 year old guy seems a little bit odd to me.

Wouldn't you be a little bit worried about your daughter gone with this guy?

I would have called the cops as soon as they took off.

[TX-RAT]

116. Wouldn't you be a little bit worried about your daughter gone with this guy?

More than just a little.

As i said before, there's more to this story, than we're being told.

[John Q. Citizen]

138. Yes, I agree with you that there is more to this than reported in the article.

[Sequoia]

147. Let me just jump in here with a bit of country music history:

Loretta Lynn at 13 married her husband who was around 27 at the time. Her parents had some misgivings, but not much. I'd be upset if an older guy was messing with my young child. Indeed!

[LostinVA]

232. Me too -- that also struck me as rather odd

I sure as hell would.

[michreject]

199. The opposite is also true

The judge will instruct the jury that empathizing with the fathers feelings doesn't mean they can return a not guilty verdict.

It doesn't mean the jury can't return a verdict of "Not guilty". It doesn't matter what the judge wants.

[treestar]

65. Private persons don't get to apply the death penalty

Especially without a conviction.

[ComerPerro]

120. wow. You sure you're on the right website? Justice will only be served

when the murderer is punished with a long jail term.

[jeffrey_X]

161. Yea...he's going to be a REALLY GREAT father now that he's in jail.

take your macho shit elsewhere.

[gatorboy]

7. Bo Luke, we hardly knew ye.....

[shain from kane]

10. Teen daughter? 13. Sounds like child molestation. Too young to consent.

[etherealtruth]

91. As the mother of a beautiful 13 year old daughter

... I must agree.

I am usually very opposed to violence ... but in the circumstances faced by that father, I would not guarantee my response.

[ends_dont_justify]

15. I'm torn...

On the one hand I don't approve of shotgun weilding maniacs blowing people away. On the other the fact the father did something to a guy endangering his daughter shows a kind of stand-uppingness that isn't seen as much in this country. It's just too bad it had to be done in a counterproductive way...

[LostinVA]

234. Since when is murder "standupiness"?

I'm not flaming, I'm totally serious. He should have called the cops ASAP. He didn't, even KNOWING his daughter left with the guy.

And, a kid that age just doesn't "hook up" with a guy that age. I'm betting this guy hasn't been exactly a "standingup" father. This stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum.

[shain from kane]

17. Shotgun wedding. Groom didn't survive.

[Xithras]

18. Hard to fault the guy.

As the 32 year old father of a 12 year old, I'd have done the same damned thing. If I found out that a guy nearly my own age was screwing my barely teenaged daughter, it would take an army to keep me from killing the SOB. If the dumbass were actually stupid enough to come to my house unarmed to "talk about it", I'd have a bullet in his head before he came across the threshold.

I was molested as a child, and the sonuvabitch that did me died before justice was ever served on his pathetic carcass. Should anyone ever make the mistake of doing the same thing to any of my children, they will experience all the rage, wrath, and violence that still dwell in my soul from that violation. Anyone molests my kids, and they will fucking die.

So bravo to this dad. If this guy came back, admitted what he did, and was trying to talk his way out of it, he got EXACTLY what he deserved. He received exactly what I would have given him.

Yeah, my liberalism goes right out the frigging window when it comes to this subject. I'm probably not the most rational person when it comes to child molesters.

[Nabia2004]

40. How will this man explain to his daughter his killing the man she loved?

This father's rage has likely cost him his daughter.

[Xithras]

55. Perhaps you missed the part where she was 13?!?!

There's a reason why 13 year olds cannot consent to sex with an adult, and it's not some conservative moralism.

It's possible that the girl may have been genuinely enticed into sex, and that she may grieve over the dead man equally genuinely. She will come to understand in time, and hopefully with the help of a therapist, that she was a victim, the man was a predator, and that her father was only acting to protect her.

[John Q. Citizen]

110. Which TV show are you talking about?

How do you know the girl had sex?

I read the article but I didn't see that.

Did I miss it?

My guess is she will grow up visiting her dad in jail. He won't be there to come home and discover her with the next guy, no matter what his age is.

You make vigilante justice out to be heroic. I'm sorry, but it's not.

It appears to be an "honor" killing. The father felt his daughters honor was at stake (and by extension, his honor,) so he killed the guy to redeem it. Very smart. (not) He could have better protected his daughter by knowing more about who her friends are and how she spent her time. Like, where did she meet this guy? Why was the guy at the house?

Did the parents ever call the cops (before the shooting?) Like his daughter is gone with a 27 year old guy but he doesn't phone the police?

[ellisonz]

85. That's not love...that's child molestation.

[Nabia2004]

166. Not to a girl with love in her heart

But I guess the girls feelings and emotional well being doesn't really matter to you people. Slap the victim label on and send her to bed. Of course from the article we have no idea what the relationship with this man actually was.

[Name removed]

195. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dorian Gray]

219. I certainly don't approve of her father's actions

nor have I condoned his murdering of the man who molested (yes, MOLESTED) his daughter. The girl's feelings will be those of a young teen taken advantage by a grown man. She may feel like she loves him, but he abused her. Even if they didn't have sex, any relationship between a 27 year old and a 13 year old is abusive if it's "romantic" in nature.

[LostinVA]

236. Exactly right

[LostinVA]

237. oh brother

[Maddy McCall]

88. Disgusting post.

[Maine-ah]

245. where in the story did it say that?

sheesh, this was a bare bones story, everyone here is assuming so much.

[NoGOPZone]

20. Where's Chris Hansen when you need him? nt

[Burma Jones]

21. I assume "with" means what we all think it means.....

I saw no mention that the teen and the 27 yr old were engaged in sex...It could be that the father was killing someone that the 13 old was confiding in.....I mean, let's say that there's incest involved.....Not enough info in the article.

[Bluebear]

22. "Abad said she did know the nature of the teen and the 27-year-old's relationship."

Nothing sexual was even confirmed in the article and the yeehaw posse here are saying it was a justified murder.

[TX-RAT]

26. 27 year old man that i don't know, in my house with my 13 yr old daughter.

Then they run out the door. I'd sure hate to be put in that situation.

[Bluebear]

28. Personally I would call the police. nt

[slackmaster]

34. TX-RAT is the police

:D

[TX-RAT]

42. Tired and retired.

[kiahzero]

43. I fail

Edit: directed at the wrong person. >.<

[TX-RAT]

46. deleted

[TX-RAT]

37. I would have also.

But i can also understand why a father would react in that manner. We'll just have to see how the jury responds, after seeing all the evidence. I'm sure there's allot more to this story.

[erpowers]

122. Not Justified Murder Regardless

In my opinion it would not be justified murder even if it was confirmed that there had been a sexual relationship. Although I am not in total support of a 27 year old guy sleeping with a 13 year old girl I tend to at least give partial blame to the 13 year old. The girl had to let the guy in the house in order to have sex with him. Therefore, she consented to what was going on.

Yes, I am against statutory rape charges in most cases. At this girls age the guy should not have been having sex with her, but if she allowed him to do it with her than she shares the blame. In addition, I do not accept the argument that 13 is too young to know. At 13 you are aware of what is wrong and right and what your parents like and dislike. Since this girl ran out of the house with the guy that shows she knew full well her parents disapproved of what she was doing. I am totally against statutory rape charges once a person reaches the age of 15.

[LeftishBrit]

149. That's going from one extreme to another!

I definitely don't think the father should have shot the man -calling the police would have been the correct response - and I agree with those who say that it sounds premeditated.

But just because the man shouldn't have got the death penalty especially without a trial, doesn't mean that one should blame the child for consenting. Children don't have the wisdom and experience to deal appropriately with a seductive adult. This wasn't a 15-year-old boyfriend; it was a grown man.

[erpowers]

262. More on My Opinion

I am not giving all the blame to the girl. I just think since she concented she shares the blame. I do not think the girl should go to jail or be harrassed. I just think she made a choice and that should not be put on the back burner just because she is 13. I think what the guy did was wrong if he had sex witht he girl, but I think she was part of it.

[michreject]

200. "I am against statutory rape charges in most cases"

Please explain where you think statutory rape is acceptable?

[LostinVA]

241. I hope the poster responds that that was a typo

Oh boy.

[michreject]

264. Unfortunately no

And I'm just as confused after the explanation as I was before.

[erpowers]

260. Explaining

I am against statutory rape charges when a person of 15 and older is involved. I think that people at the age actually like dating people who are older than they are. In addition, I think just about all 15 year old people know what can happen as a result of sex. In the case of the 13 year old, I think statutory rape charges would have been right, but only because she was 13. However, I do not think the father had a right to shot the guy. Yes, I think she shares some of the blame for having sex with the 27 year old guy. I do not think that is attacking the 13 year old. I just think she knew what she was doing. Should the guy have been put in jail? Yes, he should have.

The reason I am against statutory rape charges in most/many cases is that as far as I know the younger person actually concented to the sex. So I do not see statutory rape as a real rape, but as a person who choose to have sex with a minor. I am totally against forced rape and think anyone who forcably rapes a women or man should be put in jail. However, I think once a person reaches a certain age they know how to say no, know what is right and wrong, know what their parents think is right and wrong, and know whether they want to have sex or not. I realize that a 15 year old may regret having sex right after they have sex, but the same thing happens to people who are 18 years and older.

[gollygee]

211. 13 year olds are still kids

they've barely hit puberty. There is no way they are able to consent to a relationship like this. I am AMAZED that people think kids that age understand enough about sex and relationships to consensually enter into a sexual relationship with an adult man. At least that people think that on a progressive site like DU.

[Maine-ah]

250. got kids?

if you did, I'd bet you would have serious issues with your 13 y.o. having sex with an adult.

That said, the article does not say as to whether or not these two were actually having sex. Infact, it really doesn't tell us diddly squat.

[erpowers]

261. No and Yes

No I do not have kids. Yes I think think I would not like it if I had a 13 year old who was having sex with an adult. However, I would still treat my kid the same way. I would give some of the blame to my kid and myself. I would think that maybe I had not instilled the values I believe in and had wanted to believe. I did write and will write again that I believe the guy was wrong to do what he did since the girl was 13, but I believe she shares some of the blame. Maybe once I have kids I will change my mind, but for not that is my opinion. No I would not like it if I had a 27 year old who was sleeping with a 13 year old. I think I also say that in my first post.

[LostinVA]

238. Exactly -- who knows what the relationship was

It may have been creepy, it may have been a confidante thing, who knows.

[slackmaster]

23. Allowing a 13-year-old girl to confide in you is not something a smart man does

Not to suggest the shooting was in any way justified, but an adult man allowing himself to be alone with (or merely perceived as alone with) an underage girl for any reason is just plain dumb.

If the girl had confided in him something that she couldn't talk to her parents about, the 27-year-old should have directed her to the proper government authority (e.g. the police) or a professional guidance counselor (such as her school should provide).

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

27. This is starting to sound like something out of Sharia law.

[slackmaster]

33. It's a matter of common sense, self-preservation

Being alone with an underage girl sets a man up for things like fraudulent reports to Child Protective Services. In this case, the guy got himself killed.

[kiahzero]

No, he didn't get himself killed.

He was the victim of a homicide.

[John Q. Citizen]

125. That's true. But the the guy was still not too bright to put himself in the situation.

While he a victim of muder, he's also a candidate for a Darwin Award.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

35. In this case the guy's a murder victim.

No need to blame the victim.

[slackmaster]

36. He didn't deserve to be a victim, but his poor choices set him up for it

I'd call him a Darwin Award nominee.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

39. They say that a lot for rape victims.

In regards to their clothing, and profession, and so on.

[slackmaster]

45. I don't say that about rape victims

But I do say that about a 27-year-old man in Texas who chooses to associate himself with a 13-year-old girl.

[kiahzero]

47. So it's only murder victims who "bring it on themselves."

No real reason why you'd sharply differentiate it like that, except that you know how disgusting it would be to say that rape victims "bring it on themselves," but for some unspecified reason don't have the same problem with murder victims.

[slackmaster]

48. Not all murder victims, and I didn't say he brought it on himself

I say his poor choices put him in an obviously dangerous situation, one that I would never allow myself to be in.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

51. "I didn't say he brought it on himself"

Just a Darwin Award nominee.

:eyes:

[slackmaster]

53. Sorry if the nuance is lost on you

:hi:

[John Q. Citizen]

136. The stupidity of the victim of any crime is not any defense at all for the perpetrator

of the crime, however, people can reduce their chances of being a crime victim by using good sense.

Would you walk home alone, drunk, wearing lots of gold jewlery through the highest crime area of a city? You should be able to, it's a free country, etc, but I wouldn't if I could help it.

I'd figure it would increase my chances of being a victim of a crime.

[Burma Jones]

29. True, true, you would never catch me in that situation

[TahitiNut]

30. It seems ASSUMPTIONS are a plague in this story ... and in discussing it.

Not a lot of fact-based reasoning here. :shrug: What else is new?

[Burma Jones]

32. A lot of sound and fury

indicating.....nothing......

[southerncrone]

24. Everybody knows "You don't mess with Texas" or their 13 yr old daughters!

[Madspirit]

31. I was abused

Just pointing that out because one of us above is using his childhood abuse as an excuse for this man's behavior.

Nothing gives the father the right to end this man's life. Vigilante justice is no justice at all. The father could have called the police. Also, the article doesn't say they were having sex. For all we know the kid was confiding to the man that her father is incesting her or a violent abuser. We know NOTHING except that a man with a gun killed someone. Even worse case scenario it is for the police to handle. I hate this kind of crap. I hate cowboy "justice".
Lee

[trumad]

41. Bravo--- I would have shot him 20 times.

I'm telling you something right now... my daughter is now 13 years old and she's beautiful... if any mother fucking 27 year old put his hands on her, I'd kill him in a second.... and if that aint progressive, tough shit!

[truebrit71]

50. Well said...some of the Progressive Police have taken me to task about my views...

...but then, they must be so much more "progressive" than me...:eyes:

[kiahzero]

52. Sanctioning murder is pretty non-progressive, if you ask me.

:shrug:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

54. I think it's like people who drive SUVs.

They feel a bit sexually insecure, so they drive SUVs or talk about how they'd be vigilantes on internet message boards. It makes them feel macho.

:shrug:

[951-Riverside]

57. "They feel a bit sexually insecure"

Do you have any scientific evidence to back up this claim?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

58. Nope.

[kath]

157. Actually, there IS some research re: the sexually insecure-SUV link:

Men overcompensate when their masculinity is threatened, Cornell study shows
http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/Aug05/soc.gender.dea.html

[trumad]

95. I drive an SUV so fucking what.....

I'd still kill the mother fucker....

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

100. Mmhmm.

Do you wear a toupee?

[trumad]

107. Do you wear underwear?

[geardaddy]

109. LMAO

[Kingshakabobo]

202. I'd be more worried about the sexually insecure "I'd shoot them" crowd diddling their own kids.

I had a neighbor that killed his daughter's boyfriend for "laying a hand on her"......It came out in the trial that he was molesting THAT daughter AND a younger one.

Also, we had a friend of the family murdered by his father-in-law...The FIL had a history of violence AND molesting the daughter. The father would threaten boyfriends with guns/violence etc. The murder was committed over an argument about the raising of the grand daughter....go figure.

I know some people are just spouting but there are a few here creeping me out....."I'd torture him"..."shoot him multiple times" etc.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

240. Yeah.

I wouldn't be surprised if this perp knocked his daughter around too.

As for the wanna-be macho guys, they remind me of Mark Foley.

[Bluebear]

74. Yes, they are, actually. Vigilante murder is not progressive. nt

[wuushew]

56. Perhaps I should preemptively shoot you to stop you from murdering

n/t

[trumad]

93. self delete..

[kath]

159. Heh. Terry Jones (of Monty Python fame) wrote a little column along these lines, back

when Chimpy was getting ready to start his pre-emptive war:

Excerpt:
For some time now I've been really pissed off with Mr Johnson, who lives a couple of doors down the street. Well, him and Mr Patel, who runs the health food shop. They both give me queer looks, and I'm sure Mr Johnson is planning something nasty for me, but so far I haven't been able to discover what. I've been round to his place a few times to see what he's up to, but he's got everything well hidden. That's how devious he is.
As for Mr Patel, don't ask me how I know, I just know - from very good sources - that he is, in reality, a Mass Murderer. I have leafleted the street telling them that if we don't act first, he'll pick us off one by one.
Some of my neighbours say, if I've got proof, why don't I go to the police? But that's simply ridiculous. The police will say that they need evidence of a crime with which to charge my neighbours.

They'll come up with endless red tape and quibbling about the rights and wrongs of a pre-emptive strike and all the while Mr Johnson will be finalising his plans to do terrible things to me, while Mr Patel will be secretly murdering people. Since I'm the only one in the street with a decent range of automatic firearms, I reckon it's up to me to keep the peace. But until recently that's been a little difficult. Now, however, George W. Bush has made it clear that all I need to do is run out of patience, and then I can wade in and do whatever I want!
{much more - also, if you search the Guardian's site, he's written some other excellent columns}

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,882459,00.html

[Madspirit]

59. The article said nothing

...about anyone having his hands on her. Maybe she was complaining to the 27 year old about being incested by her father. We DON'T know. Even worse case scenario, murder is murder. The father could have called the police.
Lee

[H2O Man]

61. I think that

it isn't something that can be defined in terms of "progressive" or "non-progressive." It's a matter of protecting your family.

[Bluebear]

77. How was he protecting his family? The man came back, unarmed.

The girl was gone, staying at a friend's house. How did killing an unarmed man protect anyone?

[H2O Man]

80. I guess it depends

on if you think the threat to the daughter was based on if the 27-year old was armed (or unarmed).

I'm from the Malcolm X school of thought. Minister Malcolm used to teach about the correct course of action for a father, if there were rattle snakes on one's lawn. Malcolm advocated chopping the heads off the rattle snakes. Now, some people view Malcolm as having been a progressive, and other people think protecting rattle snakes is the true measure.

[Bluebear]

84. I prefer law and order.

If you think the threat to your daughter is the man, and in this case it certainly looks like that is the case, you call the police posthaste. The man belongs behind bars. This is not South Dakota 1870.

[H2O Man]

86. Law and order.

I have no problem with that. The father is accused of a crime. He is entitled to a vigorous legal defense. The chances are that there could be factors that the news article hasn't reported that will come into play.

[gollygee]

87. And if his daughter was in fact molested

she'll get to deal with it without the help of her father, and she'll get to deal with her father being in prison too. How lucky for her that she's so well protected.

[H2O Man]

102. While you have

found him guilty and sentenced him to prison, I prefer to allow him a fair trial.

[gollygee]

117. Yeah, too bad the other guy didn't get a trial before he got shot

I wouldn't take the chance of leaving my daughter while I was in prison.

[H2O Man]

141. This father

obviously responded differently in real life than you do from reading about the case.

[trumad]

143. Bingo---and there lies the rub....

I'm yelling up and down that I'd kill the sum a bitch... but I haven't been faced with that reality. I might just call the cops--- and then again---those who say they'll just call the cops might blow the guys head off. We don't know what the hell we'd do until we're faced with it in real life.

[H2O Man]

158. One never knows

until confronted with such a situation.

[trumad]

96. It's a matter of rage....

will I be able to control it? I have no idea and I hope I never have to find out.

[NorthernSpy]

152. in other words, the women in your family will have to be very, very discreet...

If angered by the victimization of someone close to you, you either cannot or will not control your reaction. Therefore, any daughter of yours may have to keep certain things secret, lest you go wild and kill someone.

[trumad]

154. snarf

the prob with that scenario is that I'm a 24x7 father....nothing gets by me--- nothin.

[treestar]

70. So you are above the law?

[trumad]

94. Fuck the law....

Molest my 13 year old daughter and you will die.

[Stuckinthebush]

210. ...and you will go to jail for murder

and that would suck.

I have three girls and understand the feeling. However, if a person messed with my daughters, while I would need to be restrained, I would hope that I wouldn't be so out of my mind with anger that I would kill someone.

We live in a country of laws and we must respect all the laws.

[Pavulon]

215. Depending on your location...

There was a case where a mother shot the person who raped her child ON THE WITNESS STAND and was not charged.

I repeat shot him dead in a court of law.

The law is administered by people. People do not like child rapists.

I am not say go kill them all, but in the above situation in my home, I would be calling stanley steamer and a good lawyer.

[Stuckinthebush]

218. I think that there is a lot of hyperbole surrounding this case

Very few if any of the people saying that they would kill this man would actually do it.

Why? Because we all know that it is against the law to kill someone even if they had committed such a heinous act. This does not include protecting oneself during an attack.

One can not go around killing people in our society. Period.

[Pavulon]

222. Go around no

however that man killed himself. He just chose some victim to pull the trigger.

He came in a mans house, screwed around with his child, threatened his wife.

The wife was attacked, per another thread, so he shot to defend her. End of story.

One can not enter another's home and threaten people's lives and not expect to be killed. Period.

[Stuckinthebush]

242. I may be confused as to the events...but indeed threatening someone

can get you killed.

My point was that you can't just go up to a person and kill them because they were dating your underage daughter.

[Bluebear]

76. Yeehaw. nt

[sandnsea]

103. *sigh* no you wouldn't

You'd be furious and FEEL like killing the SOB, but you wouldn't DO IT. By saying that you would, you contribute to the sicko vigilante mindset that causes the highest murder rate in the world. These people should have called the police and had the guy arrested.

[trumad]

142. I would I would I would

and then double that.

[mainegreen]

126. and gone to jail and left your daughter without a father at home.

Like this guy is going to do. While I agree to a degree with your sentiment, isn't it about doing what's right for your child? Going to jail for forever doesn't tend to help one's children.

[gollygee]

60. He obviously shouldn't have killed the guy

But I mainly feel sad for this girl, who was likely taken advantage of by the one man, and then will very possibly lose her father to prison. If she's the victim of molestation, she needs her father at home with her.

[Madspirit]

71. Good Point....Idiot Father

For all of you who think this was just hunky-dory behavior, you do realize the girl is now going to lose her dad. The law will not recognize this form of vigilantism as OK.
Lee

[TX-RAT]

118. It has before.

Post 101

[Madspirit]

123. Not like this

If he caught them with clothes off, in bed, the law might recognize the crime as less than murder....the rage of the moment. ...but this was after the fact. The law will give him no break on this.
Lee

[TX-RAT]

127. Maybe not, but jury's can surprise you.

There's not enough info on this for anybody to make a judgement.

[Madspirit]

128. Juries can surprise you...

...especially where we live, right? <g> I wouldn't live anywhere but Texas but sometimes we stun even me.

You're in Houston, right?
Lee in Austin

[TX-RAT]

132. West TX

[gollygee]

208. That's a pretty big chance to take

MAYBE you'll get off

And maybe you'll be in prison for the rest of your life and your child (and any other children you have) won't have a father available to them.

[Name removed]

179. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gollygee]

207. a 13-year-old is unable to consent to sex

she is a child and isn't responsible for being seduced by an adult man.

This attitude is sickening.

[Name removed]

217. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zuiderelle]

227. !!!

:thumbsup: I'm sorry for what happened to you. :hug:

[helderheid]

239. Thank you PF!

[redqueen]

249. That is a sick, sad thing to say.

I feel sorry for you, cause you TRULY do not fucking get it.

:puke:

[helderheid]

252. Sorry Mods. How's this? "I strongly beg to differ"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=400261&mesg_id=400342

[fla nocount]

64. This story has some holes

1) What does being "caught with" mean? We know what it implies except for hole #2

2)"Abad said that she did not know the nature of the teen and the 27-year-old's relationship."

Sounds like Dad might have walked into the teen using her snarky charms ont the 27 y.o. dumbass, dead 27 y.o. dumbass. Guys, women are at least 10 yr.s smarter that we are in social relationships, it's in their jeans. Also there's no reason to assume that this little lady acted 13, looked 13, thought 13 or was particularly honest about being 13. Dad went off half-cocked and got burned himself.

[gollygee]

66. Oh yeah, I'm sure it was all the 13-year-olds fault

:sarcasm:

*sigh*

[treestar]

67. No, but the death penalty without benefit of a chance to explain

does not apply.

[gollygee]

69. Look one post up

I don't think it was OK for the dad to murder this guy.

I also don't think it's OK to lay the blame for all this at the feet of a 13-year-old girl.

[NoGOPZone]

68. In their 'jeans'? Now there's a Freudian slip for ya.

:evilgrin:

[lpbk2713]

72. Don't get yer patties in a wade.

:rofl: :rofl:

[northofdenali]

82. Are you SERIES??!!!11! This is HUGH!!

Call the cops, let 'em sort it out. If the 27 YO dude was, indeed, having sex with a 13 year old in the state of Texas, he'd go to jail for a long, long, time - if he lived after being incarcerated. Most inmates despise child molesters. They don't live long in prison.

If, however, the child was consulting this man as a friend about a problem at home, and no touching/sex was involved, the cops can figure that out, too.

To the poster who said no 27 yo should be alone with a 13 yo - how about teacher consults at school? How about in confession? (Yep, nonpracticing ex-Catholic here).

Shooting the man was wrong; the fact that daddy had the shotgun and was waiting indicates definite premeditation.

[NashVegas]

78. Judge Moore?

Your last paragraph reminds me of legal cases I've heard of, where a child molester's defense includes, "but that 5 year old, she seduced me."

A 27 YO man knows better than to be with a 13, 14, 15, 16 and in some states, 17 year old girl.

When it comes to sex, 13 year old girls are capable of making un-coerced, un-manipulated, choices. But they are not well known at all for making wise choices and that is why we have age of consent laws.

[fla nocount]

81. No argument, but the judgement seemed extreme.

I'm standing by the idea that nothing in the story indicated any kind of overt sexual activity at all. "Abad did not know the nature of the relationship."

[Maddy McCall]

89. Second most disgusting post I've ever read at DU.

[Nicole]

197. You're wrong.

You wrote:
2)"Abad said that she did not know the nature of the teen and the 27-year-old's relationship."

The article reads:
Abad said she did know the nature of the teen and the 27-year-old's relationship.

[TX-RAT]

204. Read the article again.

(Abad said she did know the nature of the teen and the 27-year-old's relationship)

(The two argued before the father shot and killed the other man.)

[Freddie Stubbs]

220. The child molester also has some holes

[Zuiderelle]

228. The father shouldn't have shot him, but your post is DISGUSTING.

Jeans? Snarky charms? Little lady?

You're an ass inine person.

[Maine-ah]

253. you have that quote wrong. go re-read the story.

"Abad said she did know the nature of the teen and the 27-year-old's relationship."

[LeftishBrit]

257. The father should not have shot the man; but NO WAY is a 13-year-old smart enough...

to give informed consent to sex with a 27-year-old.

I've been a bit shocked by some of the posts on both sides. Both the "Great; he deserved to be shot on sight" ones; and the "Blame the girl; she was probably leading him on anyway" ones. Surely neither view is liberal?

[lastliberalintexas]

266. Assuming no mental problems, if a 27 year old

can't tell that a 13 year old really is too young for him, then he probably really is a candidate for a Darwin award.

I understand and can sympathize with young men and women who now have sex offender convictions because of consensual sex with 16 or 17 year olds. But 13?! Seriously, do you not remember just how stupid we all are at 13? Any halfway sane, rational adult knows a 12-14 year old is NOT an adult.


And blaming a 13 year old is hideous.

[NashVegas]

73. Yeah, Okay, This Is Overkill

It's one thing to slug a guy who's doing your 13 year old daughter, but it seems this fellow went so far the lesson would be lost.

[fla nocount]

83. Not on the daughter. n/t

[kiahzero]

104. What lesson, exactly, was the daughter supposed to learn?

I'm curious what being a bystander to a murder is intended to "teach."

[NorthernSpy]

150. the same thing that he-man brutality has ALWAYS taught women: to keep our mouths shut...

... and never, ever let on about what we do or what happens to us.

Because Mr. He-man Brutality won't be responsible for his actions. He might kill someone, maybe go to jail -- and it'll be our fault. Because we could have avoided that turn of events, if only we had practiced more discretion.

[fla nocount]

171. You're assuming and I am not that the girl was the victim

There's only one dead person here..........a dumbass or an innocent bystander. There is no mention of any overt sexual activity just "caught with" and "did not know the relationship between." Read the OP

Dad is a knuckle-draggin ogre that got in between two individuals interrelating on a scale that we have no information into. There's a dead man guilty of being human.

You don't have an agenda, do you, that faults human frailty?

It's a fucked up situation for a young woman, a dead BOY, for that's what guys in their twentys are, a knuckle-dragging father and everybody who loves/loved any of them.

I'm a single dad and my children live with me, I do my gig alone and I have a daughter, she's 22 now but I remember her at 13 while she was parenting her Mom. She was a "virgin" until she was 18 and was insistent on trumpeting this information to me, her dad, I couldn't have cared less............I'm a Vietnam boomer and a human bean.

"Wee's sittin in the back seat just shootin the breeze
Her hair up in curlers, her pants ter her knees,
Siiiihgned...........just married"

"Dear Abbey" by John Prine

There's a dead boy out there guilty of being human.
There's a Dad out there who's only defense is defending his "turf"
Then there's us observers, with no stake, passing judgement

Something wrong with being human? Something wrong with being wrong?

By the way, this isn't directed at you, you were the innocent bystander whose post invited the interjection.


Dead BOY, traumatized teenie, murderous Dad, underaged relationship that wasn't, dead BOY, trauma for everyone involved. Dead BOY.................relationships between human beans......bushites......fear.......MSM.........fear......Clenis..........local news......Clenis....Dad with a shot-gun.....Clenis... traumatized little girl....dead BOY

[scrinmaster]

223. WTF?

How is the 13 year old girl a "young woman", and the 27 year old man a "boy"?

[Tsiyu]

229. You lost me when you claimed

a 27-year-old man is a still a BOY, while placing adult sensibilities in the girl.

Double standard much?

[BreweryYardRat]

75. I'm going to say wait to pass judgement until we have all the facts.

[NashVegas]

79. You Say Wisely

Way too little info. But speculating is fun, anyway :)

[slowry]

99. Nee!

Shoost first, have schigarette and pancakesch later.



edit: not trying to make light of the situation, but I thought we could use a break from the "shoot him 800 times" type comments :smoke:.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

97. I'm Amazed At The Level Of Ignorant Conclusion Jumping Here.

So many people condemning the guy and yet damned if I can find a fucking thing in that article that states they had ANY sexual contact WHATSOEVER.

To those jumping so quickly and ignorantly to such conclusions, ya think that just MAYBE you should wait for some facts first? Maybe?

[Madspirit]

106. Man...I really hate it when I agree with you

Just joking, well...kind of. Anyway, I totally agree with you on this. People have the guy...the MURDERED guy down, as a total pedophile when in fact, nothing stated that and now the girl is going to have a dad in prison. That will be helpful to her. Not.
Lee

[NashVegas]

165. And Others

Apparently have her as an incest victim who was spilling her guts to a social worker.

Lotta projection here, I'm guilty of some of it, myself.

[Devil Dog Dem]

98. While not the right way to handle it, I won't shed tears for the "victim"

Too many injustices in the world for me to feel bad about a pedophile getting killed.

[Madspirit]

105. You're basing your accusation on????

Not pedophile...Lolitaphile...different pathology but still sick..

..but what are you basing this on? Who said anything about anyone touching anyone. The article certainly did not.

...and now Mr. Idiot Father will be in prison and wow...that will certainly help his child.
Lee

[trumad]

108. They ran out the back door when the paretns came home

betcha a beer it comes out he was banging her.

[Madspirit]

111. You can't run and "bang" at the same time. n/t

[trumad]

144. Isn't that a lynard Skynard song?

[slackmaster]

233. Give Me Three Steps

:hi:

[Madspirit]

112. Do I get a beer whether I win or lose?

Either way, I might need a beer. (Actually I don't drink but doesn't mean I don't still want to...Shiner Bock.)

Lee

[trumad]

146. Shiner Bock--- Nah--- Sam Adams

[Madspirit]

186. stamping feet

I want Shiner Bock. I will buy you Sam Adams.
Lee

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

139. I Hope Ya Realize How Utterly Ignorant It Would Be To Draw Such Conclusions From Such Weak Evidence.

Like, what if they were smoking pot? Think they'd want to run out the door then too?

Maybe they were in fact having some sort of sexual relation. But to draw such a conclusion based on your one piece of circumstantial evidence is an amazing violation of logical deduction processes. It's actually an extremely irresponsible and reckless method of logical deduction to use such flimsy circumstance to yield conclusions.

[trumad]

140. Then I guess that means you're up for a beer bet?

I drink Sam Adams.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

148. What Comes Of Tomorrow Has Nothing To Do With The Ignorance Of Today.

Being found to be right by nothing more than coincidence does not make your logical process of deduction any less irresponsible and reckless. Conclusions reached via such ways are always ignorantly conceived, even when ultimately found to be in the end correct.

[Madspirit]

155. Not Based on Nothing

While I agree we don't have evidence I doubt they were playing Old Maid. The father shot him for some reason.
Lee

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

160. I Never Said They Were Playing Old Maid. I Said To Derive A Conclusion Of Sex Based Solely On Them

running out the door is ignorant, reckless and irresponsible. It quite simply is. Unless you're trying to make a point refuting that concept, than I'm not quite sure what you're reply was attempting to persuade.

Acknowledging that it would be ignorant to strongly conclude that they were engaging in sexual activity based on such limited facts does not imply a premise of them playing Old Maid. Sorry.

[Madspirit]

164. I just think

...not that you care what I think unless it gives you an opportunity to be high-horsey and arrogant. (It will hurt when you eventually fall off that high horse or the pedestal you've put yourself on.) I am just saying that I don't think it is stupid for people to think they were up to no good because by definition they were up to no good. A 27 year old should not have been with her, in her bedroom, without her parent's permission, for any reason.
Lee

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

168. You're Right; I Don't Care What You Think. Nor Is Being Logically Accurate High Horsey And Arrogant.

You're a real piece of work in my opinion. You agree upthread with me but yet still had to try and find some hole to try and poke around in just for sake of doing so, though one wasn't there.

I never said a THING about people being stupid for thinking they were up to no good did I. Nope, I didn't. What I did say is that deriving a strong conclusion of sexual activity based solely on the fact they ran out of the house, is a product of reckless and irresponsible logical deduction and will arrive at a result that is based on ignorance. That holds true even if such sentiment turns out to be correct. Now contrary to your attack, saying so is not high horsey nor arrogant. Saying so is merely logical fact. Deal with it.

[Madspirit]

175. It's NOT what you say; it's how you say it

You imply anyone who doesn't see the absolute wisdom of all your words is an idiot. That is how you talk to people.

I agree with you about this. I think people are way jumping to conclusions based on not much.
Lee

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

180. You Mean Intellectually? Yeah, Sorry Bout That.

And I still have no reason to believe that you are engaging with me now for any sake other than petty arguing just for sake of doing so. What makes that even more glaringly apparent is your admission that you even agree with me, yet are attacking me anyway. Pretty ridiculous if ya ask me.

See, nowhere in this subthread did I say anything about anyone being an idiot. You want to falsely attack me in such ways merely because you want to argue. But your premise is without merit. I plainly, logically and intellectually posted a point on making assumptions ignorantly; which is what drawing conclusions based on such lack of evidence would be. Now you have not yet disputed that premise or the statements whatsoever and have only attacked me for making them, though the statements were factual and plainly made. In fact, you even technically agree with them.

I'll remind you again: Just because someone is intellectual, posts something that sounds intellectual, is someone who is logical, posts something that is based on strong logic or makes strong points in rebuttal, that does not make them arrogant nor guilty of attacking others. It just makes them hard to rebut because their facts are sound. And that, in and of itself, is one of the biggest reasons I see for the false and ignorant bitterness thrown my way at times. It's because it is hard for some to have to acknowledge that their argument is without merit or was made foolishly. But that's really not my problem. Those of strong character would have no problem stepping forward and acknowledging "you're right, but I'm gonna keep my opinion anyway" or "you're right, I probably shouldn't have jumped to such conclusion". I myself will quite readily admit such when I'm wrong. Those of weak character, however, will continue to debate and debate till they're blue in the face, no matter how challenged their premise has been or how readily it's been shown that their premise is foolish, merely because they don't have what it takes to stand up and acknowledge that just maybeeeee their premise was flawed. But again, that's not my problem.

[Madspirit]

183. I didn't say

I never said you sound intellectual. It's just obvious that you think you do. You're a pedant. ...and this is my last reply to you.
Lee

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

185. And I Never Said That Water Is Wet Either.

...but that doesn't make it any less factual.

And since you've set out with no further purpose but to wage false personal attack with no interest in actually disputing ANYTHING, then I'm not quite sure what your purpose was for even replying to begin with, outside of childish provocation.

[Devil Dog Dem]

121. Basing my accusation on common sense

But I agree that the Father's going to jail ani't gonna help his little girl.

[TX-RAT]

129. Some of the jurors may agree with you.

[Madspirit]

131. I'm no wuss

If someone was messing with my imaginary kid I would want them to pay. Ergo, I would call the police...<g>

This is just going to mess the kid up more. I agree, though the article says nothing about sex, they were probably not just playing Gin Rummy. Still, I don't really think the death penalty was warranted but I'm one of those anti-death penalty nuts. I don't mind the "kicking the shit out of someone" penalty. Still, the police would have been the best bet.
Lee

[ComerPerro]

134. ambushes and murders, not just "fatally shoots"

[Hippo_Tron]

135. If you're going to fool around with a 13 year old you should know the risks involved

If you run into the middle of a busy street, chances are you're going to get hit by a car. If you screw around with a 13 year old, chances are her father is going to tear you apart if he gets the opportunity. Do I approve of vigilante justice? No, because it would be a disaster if everyone took the law into their own hands. On the other hand, I don't feel sorry for the guy. If he didn't want to get shot, he shouldn't have screwed around with a 13 year old.

[toadzilla]

255. i concur.

i dont feel the least bit sorry for him. im sure we all hope that if put in a situation like this we would act in a more level headed manner ourselves and let the police handle it, but i do not blame the father for his reaction.

[NorthernSpy]

137. the court really should make an example of this murderer...

The approving reactions of some people here suggest that a harsh sentence will be necessary to deter similar crimes. People who might do such things expecting social approval and judicial leniency should be given a compelling reason to think again.


I wonder: why is it that the people who usually rant the loudest about "law and order" are also the first to applaud violent criminals such as this particular murderer? Moral relativism in action, I guess.

[Madspirit]

156. I have noticed this...

**why is it that the people who usually rant the loudest about "law and order" are also the first to applaud violent criminals such as this particular murderer?**


Wow, I have noticed this myself. It's Right Wing mentality for sure. I see the same things at places like Ann Coulter's forum. They are all Law and Order...until they don't want to be.
It is sickening.
Lee

[Kingshakabobo]

201. I was thinking along the same lines.............

It is usually the people committing violence like this(and their cheerleaders)that are more likely to be diddling their daughters/kids...or someone else's kids. See:Republicans.

[Pavulon]

214. Missing facts

The man went back into the house to threaten the mans wife. A stranger, physically threatening your wife after screwing around with your child.

Yeah a prosecutors dream.

Here is a lesson.

DO NOT go into someones house, screw their kid and scream and threaten someone and expect NOT to get a chest full of 00 buckshot.

I dont care if he is a pederast or just some stranger. He killed himself with poor judgment.

[HardRocker05]

263. wrong. there are many shades of judgement when a person kills someone else;

motivation, mitigating/aggravating circumstances, etc. are routinely taken into consideration, and they *should* be. let's say the 27 yr. old in this case had abducted, raped, tortured, and murdered said 13 yr.. old; should a pedophile/torturer/murderer's sentence be equal to the sentence of the father of this girl? of course the facts of the case need to be investgated to ensure that things are as the father said, but if his story turns out to be true, he should get a relatively light sentence.

[benEzra]

145. That was idiotic.

If the man is forcing entry into the house, fine, he's fair game.

If the man poses an imminent threat of death, serious bodily harm, or a forcible felony to his daughter or another family member, fine, he's fair game.

If the man comes to talk, and you blow him away because you are pissed...not fine.

Now, it is possible that there is more to the story, as others have mentioned, i.e. if the man attacked the father, then the father could under most circumstances respond with lethal force in his home. But if that's not the case, he'll be convicted of 2nd-degree murder, most likely.

[trumad]

153. Yeah--- Like the guy telling the Dad he loves his daughter

and they have great sex together...

It could be that way too?

[aikoaiko]

162. I need more facts before I can say whether or not it was a good shoot.

There are scenarios where the 27 year old man was a good guy. Perhaps he was trying to counsel the girl to approach the police about being abused by someone in the family. I know its a long shot, but it happens.

There are scenarios where shooting the 27 year old man was justified. Perhaps the guy was having sex with the father's daughter and told the father he was leaving the house, taking his daughter to another state, and going to have lots of sex with her. At this point, shooting him would be preventing a felony from occurring. Again, a long shot and a tenuous defense, but it happens.

[WhollyHeretic]

163. Besides the issues of vigilante justice this guy seems to be a crappy father

What kind of parent is he going to be from jail? Being a parent means being an adult and thinking of the consequences of your actions. He should have called the police.

[NorthernSpy]

170. his daughter sure seems to be afraid of him

She literally fled the house running when he came home. You don't really do that unless you're seriously afraid for your own physical safety.

That, and her attempts to meet older men suggest that her home life left a lot to be desired.

[KG]

167. how wonderful to know i don't even have to leave DU to find fans of

extra-judicial executions. :eyes:

[SmileyBoy]

178. I hear ya.

When it comes to someone's tender, innocent, virginal princess of a daughter, people think they have the right to start acting like Australopithicines.

[Colobo]

169. The guy deserved to die, but...

The father of this girl should've called the police and done things legally. I mean, even a beatdown would have been acceptable in my view.

Now, I hope the jury is lenient with this father. What he did is not right, but understandable.

[slowry]

172. Cool. Who else deserves to die? n/t

[Colobo]

173. Every pedophile on the planet

[trumad]

174. Word

[SmileyBoy]

177. Pedophiles: The Adulterers of the 21st Century!!!

Let's all make up scarlet "P" patches and start passing them out!!!

[Zynx]

196. Nah, I prefer just killing them.

[lastliberalintexas]

267. Channeling McEnroe- You CANNOT be serious

Equating adultery (by definition between 2 consenting adults) with pedophilia? :wtf:

[Nutmegger]

190. Woo! Let's get the gun and pitchforks.

Let's start killing all the murderers too ... wait, except for us because we're going to kill the pedos! Woo!

:sarcasm: :puke:

[Colobo]

191. Let's hug 'em instead :)

[Bluebear]

192. Yeah, exactly what people are proposing here, isn't it?

:eyes: Either we kill them per your instructions or we are suggesting they be hugged.

[lastliberalintexas]

268. Well, apparently someone believes they deserve some sympathy

Seems pedophiles are just the victims of modern day with hunts, and the modern day Hawthorne has produced a masterpiece of literature on the hypocrisy involved in punishing pedophiles. :eyes:


I agree that the dad was a dummy, that the 27 year old probably would have been killed in prison if he actually did anything to the girl, that there seems to be more to the story than what's here and that we really can't jump to conclusions. But I must say even I am surprised by the number of posts blaming the 13! year old girl and seeming to lessen the nature of the purported/likely action of the 27 year old. Enough disgust to go around, unfortunately.

[Nutmegger]

194. Wow...

Well maybe when I get off my bloodthirsty high. :eyes:

[Cats Against Frist]

193. Agreed

I was thinking about this, yesterday. I have a five-year-old son and I would personally torture and kill any molester who laid a finger on him. I was just watching a one-man play about a man who, when he was three, his own father said, "I'm going to make a faggot out of you," -- and he did you-know-what. It made me very sad and angry, and that wasn't even my own kid. Child molesters are, in fact, the scum of the Earth.

[SmileyBoy]

176. This is the reason I never want to have kids.

I'm 24 years old. I'm 5'10" and about 260 lbs. I bench press over 300 lbs. I played high school football, and I still lift weights regularly. I'm a big guy. Not so much "obese", but just "big". I have only had one relationship with a woman in my life that ended badly. I am known by people as a very gentle, compassionate, and most of all, POLITE person.

I am afraid that if I ever have kids, especially a daughter, that I will turn into one of these psycho fathers (like some DUers on this thread have shown to be) who would instantly turn into the worst, most violent person in the world if they found out that some stinky, dirty, smelly boy was having their way with my sweet, tender, innocent, virginal princess of a daughter. When I was in high school, my friends and I had a name for fathers like all of you: ASSHOLE. I DESPERATELY wish to never become like this man in the story, or like some of the "men" on this thread have shown themselves to be.

I am a very gentle man. There's nothing in this world that would make me go into "Hulk Smash!!" mode. I don't EVER want there to be any situation in this world where I would think to myself that I couldn't bear to act like a human being anymore, and instead start acting like a raving psychopath. I DON'T WANT TO BECOME LIKE THIS. Maybe I'm just of a different personality than some of you guys here. Maybe I don't want to accept the responsibility of taking care of another human being, I don't know. I just don't ever want to become like the kind of man I feared throughout my teenage years.

Flame me.

[Colobo]

184. I'm 23, very very skinny

And a very gentle person. A bit of a "girly man" by Ahnold standards mixed with a geeky look, if you like. In fact, I'm the kind of guy that is surrounded by girls but never dates them (the best friend syndrome). I've never been in a fight (would probably lose them anyway), hate heated arguments, and probably sound way tougher in my posts than what I really am.

My point is, regardless of how emotional we might sound in our posts, most of us are very reasonable people who would never kill or hurt anyone, regardless of the situation. Still, I personally understand why the father of this kid did what he did, even if I think it's way too extreme.

Don't get scared, man. You will probably be a great father, as I hope I will be as well.

[trumad]

246. First off--- 5:10 and 260 pounds--- dude---you're short and fat.

and most likely impotent. Your excuse for not having kids is one of the silliest things I've ever read.

So let me get this straight--- you don't want to become a parent because you're afraid you'll become a murderer? Too funny.

[dionysus]

251. HEY

5'10" isn't short! ;)

[lastliberalintexas]

269. I think if it had actually been a dirty stinky BOY possibly/likely fooling

aroung with the 13 year old girl, it's very likely that neither the father nor most DUers would react the way they have.


Did you know that the majority of US teen pregnancies are between underage girls and MEN over the age of 21? Just a little factiod for men to understand just how preyed upon some girls are. But then given some posts in this thread, I guess the 14 year old wanted to get pregnant and just happened to choose the 24 year old dude to trap, right? Yeppers.

[Eric J in MN]

181. We need laws requiring the police to name names.

And provide other information.

A man murdered another man, and we don't get either of their names from the article, or whether there has been an arrest.

[SmileyBoy]

182. Ponder this one, if you dare:

Assume that the story is the same, except the 13 year-old is a son, the 27 year-old is a woman, and the shooter was the son's mother??

What would be your reaction??

[truebrit71]

187. Is the woman hot?

If so, I say 'lucky bastard'...and the mum needs to be jailed forever.... :evilgrin:

[NMMNG]

188. Yay, vigilante justice

Who needs the police or the courts anymore? :sarcasm:

[Nutmegger]

189. I hope the father does some cold, hard time.

Putrid vigilante justice is nothing but despicable and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. I hope the father receives a fair trial and if convicted, serves a hard prison term.

We live in a society. We are suppose to act in a civilized fashion. When one takes the law into his or her hands, they have reduced themselves to barbarians and are no better than animals. This is why we have trained professionals who will serve and protect us. We're not suppose to pick up guns and start going batshit crazy because we've been wronged. I don't care what the case is, vigilante justice never excusable. Never.

The comments here on DU are also sick, sick, sick!

[MrSlayer]

198. Good. I hope they don't charge the father with anything.

I think the molestor got off easy. That dude would have been a long time dying had I caught him with my daughter.

[depakid]

203. What if it turns out the father was the molester?

That was such a poorly written story that it's impossible to know what went on...

[MrSlayer]

206. Yes.

My initial reaction is reflected in what I wrote above. Now it's time to calm down a bit and see what's what. I may well have to retract.

[WilliamPitt]

205. First degree murder.

He didn't do this in a blazing rage. He waited for the guy to come back over, long after the initial incident, and then shot him dead. He was laying for him, and murdered him.

I appreciate the reaction of fathers upthread, but this shit is wrong.

[Pavulon]

213. Nope

There was another thread with more detail.

The guy came BACK to his home and made a threating move towards his wife, in his house.

Use of deadly force requires that you feel your life or the life of another is is danger. That is it.

1) Stranger in house. (in NC after dark this is a no questions asked clean shoot)
2) Threatens wife
3) Messing with his 13 year old kid
4) one story, shitbag is dead.

No jury will convict, ever.

I can assure you that in that situation with a stranger in my home threating my wife after screwing around with my 13 year old CHILD he would be stone dead and the event would be classified as justifiable homicide.

[TX-RAT]

216. Do you have a link to that thread?

[Pavulon]

221. I cant find it.

It was here yesterday, now it is gone.

I will google story for source.

[depakid]

224. Looks a fair argument for self defense

A Fort Bend County grand jury will decide whether any charges will be filed following a fatal shooting over the weekend, which triggered an Amber Alert for a then-missing teenager, authorities said.

The fight that led to Dove's slaying happened when the girl's parents returned home after a night out and saw a strange car in their parking space. They approached and saw two people inside the house, police said.

The girl's father saw two figures race out the front when he opened the back door. He took a shotgun from a closet and went back outside to search for what he thought were intruders, police said. On Monday, police said the two people seen running out of the house were Dove and the teenager. The nature of the relationship between the 13-year-old and the slain man remains unclear.

After the girl's father went outside with the shotgun, her mother rushed inside to call 911. While speaking to the operator, she received a telephone message from Dove, police said. "He told her, 'I'm coming back to talk to you,' " HPD spokeswoman Johanna Abad said Monday.

Dove began walking back to the house, continuing the telephone conversation with the girl's mother that quickly escalated into an argument. The girl's father returned home soon after and confronted Dove, demanding to know what he was doing in the house with his daughter. Dove then became combative and made a gesture that the girl's father thought was threatening, police said.

More: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4623748.html

[TX-RAT]

226. Thank you.

Casts a different light on this thread.

[slackmaster]

235. Nowhere near enough information to draw that conclusion IMO

We have no data about what actually transpired between the shooter and the shootee immediately before the shooting.

[Stuckinthebush]

212. Pitchforks! Torches! Rabble, rabble, rabble!

String him up and cut out his liver! This man deserves to die a slow terrible death! How would you feel if she was your daughter????!!!

OK...now that my visceral response is over, I will let reason guide me. The guy deserved to be convicted, but not put to death. Our laws take care of people like this. The tragedy is compounded now because we not only have a young girl who was molested by an adult, but we have the murder of this man. The father is going to jail for a long time, and should go to jail for a long time.

We can not have citizens taking justice into their own hands...period.

[Colobo]

247. Check the link

Self defense.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4623748.html

[Stuckinthebush]

248. Eh...unclear

I don't think it is a clear cut case of self defense. I'm sure that is how the father is presenting it. The other man is dead and can't say.

[depakid]

259. It's not a clear cut case- which is why it's going to a Grand Jury

In Texas!

Who can say- there are probably more facts that haven't been reported. Could be there are minorities involved which might make a clear cut case look different.

Threadjack: it seems of late that we've all gotten somewhat jaded at DU and jump to conclusions. A "normal" response maybe, considering what we've all seen the past 6+ years and more- but still...

</threadjack>

[Bluebear]

243. Hypothetical: What if the 27 year old man was developmentally disabled?

What if he had been developmentally stunted at age 8? Would it still be justified to "tear his balls off" or "shoot his testicles so one goes left and one goes right", as some have commented here?

[IanBean]

254. Our president is disabled

Are you letting Bush off the hook for Iraq?

Didn't think so.

[LeftishBrit]

256. I doubt that Bush is truly developmentally disabled...

In any case, there is a difference between allowing someone to be president, and shooting them without a trial.

A person with a mental age of 8 is not qualified to be president. But he also should be exempt from the death penalty (even if one accepts the death penalty for anyone, which I do not).

[Bake]

258. Two questions in Texas:

1. Did you kill him/her?

2. Did he/she NEED killing?

If the answer to both is "yes," no prosecution.

Bake