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Breaking!!! White House Wanted To Fire ALL U.S. Attorneys!!! DocsTo Be Provided To Congress Today!!!

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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 10:22 PM
Original message
Breaking!!! White House Wanted To Fire ALL U.S. Attorneys!!! DocsTo Be Provided To Congress Today!!!
Edited on Mon Mar-12-07 11:21 PM by kpete
Breaking: White House wanted to fire all U.S. attorneys!
by EZ writer
Mon Mar 12, 2007 at 07:48:56 PM PDT

HUGE: It was two years ago, when the White House suggested that the Justice Department fire all 93 U.S. attorneys!

The documents will be provided to Congress today!


Coming from WaPo:

The dismissals took place after President Bush told Attorney General Alberto Gonzales that he had received complaints that some prosecutors had not energetically pursued voter-fraud investigations, according to White House spokeswoman Dana Perino.

Gonzales approved the idea of firing a smaller group of U.S. attorneys shortly after taking office in February 2005, but he left it to an aide, Kyle Sampson, to carry out most of the details, according to interviews and documents reviewed Monday by The Washington Post.



more from WaPo:


Administration officials have repeatedly portrayed the firings as a routine personnel matter, designed primarily to rid the department of a handful of poor performers.

But the documents and interviews indicate that the idea of the firings originated at least two years ago, in February 2005, with former White House counsel Harriet Miers suggesting that all prosecutors be dismissed and replaced with new personnel.

Over the next two years, Bush, top adviser Karl Rove and other White House officials also forwarded complaints that U.S. attorneys were not doing enough to prosecute certain crimes such as voter fraud, according to officials and documents.


MUCH MUCH more at:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/3/12/2179/59305

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/12/AR2007031201818.html
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RadiDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wow ! gonzo had to go!
NOW!
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
61. and that fucking Nazi Rove. You KNOW it had to be his idea!
get them out now! my skin is on fire now!
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #61
65. Wanting replacements well versed in Federalist Law..
who will back corporations and screw the public with impunity.
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Morgana LaFey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #61
72. Definitely Rove, because VotER fraud is largely a smokescreen
dreamed up by him (and others, no doubt) to cover for getting legislation passed that actually suppresses Democratic votes. For the most part, there IS no voter fraud. Our problems with election fraud have to do with LOSING voters' votes, not getting too many of them.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #72
76. exactly-- Rep-tiles confuse voterfraud vs ELECTION fraud to cover up
their own massive voter suppression activities--they point at the Dems and say oh the Dems sneak in FELONS to illegally vote! What a lie! Whe one person illegally votes, they get one vote in question. When the Pukkkes control the polls and the voting machines, MILLIONS of votes get thrown in the toilet.
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TX-RAT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #61
90. Who's idea was it when Clinton did it in 93?
This is a non story.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #90
93. Bill Clinton became President in 1993. He picked his own guys--as is the custom.
Bushie appointed his after his "election." Then, some years later, decided to dump them.

That's the story.
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TX-RAT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #93
100. He can dump them for any reason he chooses,
Whether we agree with it or not, really doesnt matter.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #100
101. And we are still free to question him.
In fact, quite a few people outside the DU circle seem interested in this little maneuver.


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TX-RAT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #101
103. Absolutely we can question
But i personally think it's a wasted effort. There's bigger fish to fry.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #103
105. Well, this fish is in the oil right now.
Hear it sizzle!

www.cnn.com/


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TX-RAT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #105
107. That's not a sizzle, it's a fizzle
I still say this goes nowhere.
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Qutzupalotl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #107
111. Lying to congress is a felony.
And Gonzalez testified that these firings were for performance reasons rather than political ones. Yet Rove got his man in.

Oops!
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-14-07 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #111
118. But we're supposed to shut up about it.
Some people seem to be getting nervous.
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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #100
115. Sure, but he cannot put a new judge in without
Congressional Approval, except they slipped a memo into the Patriot Act to allow Attorney General to appoint interim appointments...which of course has nothing to do with terrorism, which is what the Patriot Act is for...And if the judges are being replaced for not jumping to the administrations finger snapping, then that is not Constitutional and illegal...
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #90
96. It is common for incoming presidents to change US Attorneys
Once they are changed, though, they generally stay there unless they resign.

Until the December Massacre, IIRC, only three US Attorneys since Reagan took office had been fired. The rest have either stayed until a new president took office, or resigned of their own accord to retire, take other jobs, etc.

The big thing is that by firing these attorneys, BushCo can appoint 'temporary' new US Attorneys that don't have to be Senate confirmed and don't have terms that expire. Now, literally, anybody can be a US Attorney. Harriet "you're the best governor EVER" Miers, Michael "heckofa job" Brown, "Hot Tub" Tom DeLay, Mike Foley... hell, I can be a US Attorney now!

The Arkansas US Attorney seems to have been fired simply so a Rove supporter can get the job to pad his resume.

The New Mexico one was fired because he wouldn't file inditements against Democratic candidates before the most recent election.

The San Diego attorney got canned after putting Duke Cunningham in prison.

All of this is pretty disgusting, IMHO.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #96
114. Thanks for spelling that out for the nuance-impaired.
I would have spent all night trying to get why it was such a big deal. ;)
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-14-07 03:33 AM
Response to Reply #114
117. Oh, no problem. The Limp-boughs of the world are...
counting on the nuance-impaired!

I credit Air America for my vast repository of knowledge... :-)
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spindrifter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. U.S.A.-gate
Is this the one that will finally lead them to the path of impeachment?
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huskerlaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
3. ...
:wow:
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
4. Now can we impeach??????
Goddammit.
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Taoschick Donating Member (391 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
26. US Attorneys
Serve at the pleasure of the President. When President Clinton took office, all US attorneys were fired and I applauded that move. The President has every right to appoint people who will uphold the goals of his justice department.

There are a lot of issues on the impeachment table. This isn't one of them.
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 04:35 AM
Response to Reply #26
43. Operative phrase...
Edited on Tue Mar-13-07 04:36 AM by Hepburn
...WHEN THEY TOOK OFFICE. Unless I missed something ~~ Bush did not just take office. Your argument is apples/oranges.

This is probably one of the BEST arguments there is. Sorry that you cannot see it.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #26
48. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #26
66. Not *for* him. They are not meant to be on his 'team'.
And the notion that they would attempt to treat the justice system this way is, I think, a betrayal of his oath of office.
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #26
81. Under normal circumstances with an upright administration in charge, I would agree with you.
If you read the entire WAPost article, or at least page 3, it's crystal clear that these firings were the result of an untoward intent -- Sampson suggests in a memo to Miers that they use the Patriot Act to avoid having to have their long list of U.S. attorney appointments approved by the Senate:

"I strongly recommend that as a matter of administration, we utilize the new statutory provisions that authorize the AG to make USA appointments," he wrote.

By avoiding Senate confirmation, Sampson added, "we can give far less deference to home state senators and thereby get 1.) our preferred person appointed and 2.) do it far faster and more efficiently at less political costs to the White House."


If these actions are on the up & up, why would they want to avoid following the judicial rule of thumb? What relevance does the Patriot Act have in regard to removing & replacing this long list of U.S. attorneys?

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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #26
84. Your blind support for Bushco has been duly noted.
Welcome to DU. Enjoy your stay.
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Taoschick Donating Member (391 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #84
88. Welcome?
I've been here since 2005.

Since when does pointing out the fact that US Attorneys are political appointments that serve at the pleasure of the President equate blind support for bushco?

For the record, I express neither blind support nor blind hatred for any agenda.
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TX-RAT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #88
92. Don't worry about it Taoschick
Some on this board just don't like to hear the truth. As i said before, this is a non-story, thats making us look foolish.
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Patiod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #88
99. I'm GLAD you brought this up, Taoschick
Some of us have been too busy to follow every in and out of this story. Maybe this has been addressed before here, but I missed it.

We see the spin spin spin being done by the right on this ("USAs serve at the pleasure of the President", and would like help in what Thom Hartmann calls "the watercooler wars".

Why does even RAISING the issue make you a "Bush Supporter"?

What I see happening at DU is that if you're not right on top of every issue and 100% behind "impeach and impeach NOW", you're labeled some sort of traitor or rightwing dupe. God forbid there be any rational discourse.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #26
91. If this isn't a big issue, why all the fuss?
Is it that zany liberal media again?
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moc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #26
97. Replacing USAs en masse *in the middle of an administration* is virtually unheard of.
It is customary to replace USAs at the beginning of an administration. Unheard of in the middle.

A big BIG difference.

Yes, this is an issue for impeachment, and it's clearly on the table.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #26
102. Clinton also had to get Congressional approval to replace them
Thanks to the Unpatriotic act, that's not true anymore
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Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #4
75. Agreed. This is unfucking believable
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
5. Question: Why is firing all of them worse?
Edited on Mon Mar-12-07 10:32 PM by Kagemusha
Why is it a worse option than what was actually done, which was, rate the US Attorneys based on political performance and not job performance and specifically zero in on prosecutors with too much integrity to fetch indictments at the behest of state Republican party leaders?

Edit: Besides the fact the reduced plan was only carried out after the Patriot Act got renewed with the amendment that allowed replacements for fired US Attorneys to skip Senate confirmation or judicial review forever and ever.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #5
63. It's not -- is a talking point to deflect attention away from Congress critters who made
direct requests for their dismissal.
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WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
6. My head hurts. I never have headaches...n/t
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. right???
it just continues on and on... enough to cause stress to everyone.

I think they wanted to fire all us attorneys and put in people who would swear on their life not to go after this misadministration for it's lies. I dunno, sounds plausible to me, why fire them all?


www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <--- new 08 designs!
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
7. Hey, cabal, mad at Fitz much?
Edited on Mon Mar-12-07 10:33 PM by BleedingHeartPatriot
Trying to figure out a way to lump him into the "93". MKJ
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southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. Spring cleaning is a good idea! Apparently these neocons think so, too!
Let's clean out the White House NOW!
IMPEACH THEM ALL!!!!!!!! Shrub2, DarthVader, Gonzo, Condie, et. al.!
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SlowDownFast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
9. I don't get it.
"The dismissals took place after President Bush told Attorney General Alberto Gonzales that he had received complaints that some prosecutors had not energetically pursued voter-fraud investigations..."

Why would Shrub care about not investigating voter fraud?
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. From Republicans.
From Republicans.

The Washington state gubernatorial election was highly contested and the Republicans alleged voter fraud against the Democrats.
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SlowDownFast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. OK. That would've been my guess.
I remember....

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TheDebbieDee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Why would Shrub care about not investigating voter fraud?
* wouldn't care about voter fraud. That's what makes me think the admin found another "Scooter" to take the fall.

In this case, "Scooter" = Sampson, Gonzales' aide............
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Trumping up fake Democratic voter fraud
They field tested it with Rush and Hannity, but it wasn't believable even to them.
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BearSquirrel2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #19
28. For the record ...
For the record I assume that we don't consider the following voter registration as fraud:

Name: Mickey Mouse
Address: The magic castle in the Magic Kingdom
Age: 73
Party Affiliation: Disney


... as opposed to a little stupid joke. Because it would be a shame to waste thousands of taxpayers money, as well as commercial media time talking trumpeting up a stupid registration joke as voter fraud. When Mickey Mouse shows up to vote ... THAT is voter fraud.

And while they're at it, Republicans may want to address the issue with dual residence citizens voting in more then one state, by absentee if necessary.



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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #28
52. Actually, I was referring to something else
Specifically, "illegal immigrant" voter fraud. Both Rush and Hannity would go on and on for hours about how Dems were recruiting masses of immigrants to falsely register.

Although, I don't know what was in it for the immigrants themselves. They're not going to risk putting either their name OR their address on an official government form.
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Morgana LaFey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #28
74. Oh, yeah, BearSquirrel, votER fraud is our biggest election problem
Edited on Tue Mar-13-07 11:23 AM by Morgana LaFey
yessirree, it really is.

here's a clue for you: if the Bush Admin is ready to do something about a "problem," it's because they've found a way to game the system. In THIS instance, as I posted upthread but which you may not see, the Repugs want to go after "votER fraud" for 2 reasons. One is to distract from the real problems (i.e., computerized voting machines which elected Bush 2 times) and two is to get legislation passed everywhere which basically suppresses the Democratic vote.

Case in point are state laws (struck down so far -- I think GA was one) which required a govt-issued photo ID to vote. That is a HUGE disincentive and disqualifier for the very poor who STILL, by God, STILL have the "right" to vote in this country. Anything which disproportionately and negatively impacts certain groups makes it an unfair requirement and therefore unConstitutional. Oh -- in case you didn't know, the poor are mostly OUR voters (you know, Democrat?).

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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #28
86. More importantly, Repubics might want to address the denial of
countless Americans' RIGHT TO VOTE.

NEVER FORGET FLORIDA AND THE PHONY "TEXAS FELONS" LIST.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. DEMOCRATIC voter fraud
Which is an oxymoron, considering that no Democrats were in charge of voting at the time.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. BIG Problem: In OH, 2004 Presidential Elections, there were 4 cases of voter fraud.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. Terminology: voter fraud vs election fraud.
Voters commit voter fraud. Election officials commit election fraud. After the 2000 theft, when it became obvious that election fraud had occurred, the rovian spin machine invented the CONFUSOID of voter fraud to give a parity issue that the MEDIA MIND CONTROL MACHINE could use to play with. It has been very effective as demonstrated by this sub thread.

There is no evidence of significant voter fraud. There is tons of evidence of massive coordinated election fraud.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Damn, I'm guilty of that, too
Election fraud is the correct term.
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BearSquirrel2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #22
29. Lets not forget Ashcroft ...

Lets not forget Ashcroft vowing for justice after judges ordered polls to stay open until 12pm because ... that's what the law told them to do.

Seriously though, we need to pass a law against Republican staffers impersonating an angry mob of Floridians.

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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #22
33. And Democrats are ready to explain all this to the public?
I hope so...
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 04:39 AM
Response to Reply #22
44. Excellent explanation...
...thanks! I had this confused and what you said cleared things right up for me.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #9
32. "voter fraud" vs. ELECTION FRAUD
Edited on Tue Mar-13-07 12:37 AM by Stephanie
"voter fraud" means the same old tired urban myths of Dem operatives giving cigarettes to homeless men in exchange for votes. if it happened, which it didn't, it adds up to a handful of votes. ELECTION FRAUD is conducted by those who control the process, and you know who that is.
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
10. No, that's a normal practice. We need to make sure we say only the truth.
Edited on Mon Mar-12-07 10:38 PM by originalpckelly
It is a standard practice to replace US Attorneys at the beginning of a new term in office, and then have them serve along side a President for a full four years. When a new administration comes in, it is typical to do that.

Sometimes cabinet members are also ousted halfway at the beginning of new terms. (Think Andy Card leaving and Josh Bolten coming in to replace him.)

However, the recent firings and a firing of the Guam US Attorney back in 2002 are unusual because they happened mid-way through the four year term. The firing during the middle of the term suggests that the US Attorneys are being tampered with, as we have found.

Now maybe there is something more to this, but from the story I just read there was nothing out of the ordinary.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #10
56. Yes to fire them all then and start over is pretty much SOP
The picking and choosing they did is much worse.

Don
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benddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
12. It is traditional
that when the new president is elected they fire all the states attorneys hired by the previous administration. Could they have been going to do this based on this was * new administration? They are such sick bastards, I'll believe anything they did or thought they could do.
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TheDebbieDee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
13. According to the KOS article,
Gonzales' aide, Sampson, was supposed to take care of the details.

snip> Sampson resigned Monday, officials said, after acknowledging he did not tell other Justice officials who testified to Congress about the extent of his communications with the White House, leading them to provide incomplete information in their testimony to lawmakers.

Maybe the repukes found themselves another "Scooter" over in the Department of Justice.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
17. Be still my heart
This is the Harriet Miers who was nominated for the Supreme Court. Good fugging grief.
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
20. Damn Skippy ... start with Coulter if you're looking for voter frauds
Seems she hasn't been prosecuted for that crime, has she? We caught her red handed lieing about where she lived so she could vote somewhere other than her assigned precinct. But then, they must have one of "their guys" down there in Florida who can't see the Coulter for the trees.
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MiniMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
23. In 2005 they still would have had to be approved by the Senate
They just put the "appointment" crap in the Patriot renewal bill in the dead of night. Thats the biggest objection that I have about this whole thing, not that the prosecutors were fired, but that the replacements can be appointed without congressional approval.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
24. So, Gonzales and Miers plotted to gut the Justice Department.
Do those emails constitute conspiracy?

Can US attorneys prosecute this case when they are the intended victims?
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
25. Ooooooweeeeee! Someone got caught with their fingers in the cookie jar!
>February 2005, with former White House counsel Harriet Miers suggesting that all prosecutors be dismissed and replaced with new personnel.<

So, Harriet Miers left to "spend more time with her family". Is she the fall guy? After all, she suggested this two years ago, didn't she?

Julie
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
30. Target = Fitzgerald
No doubt. How else were they going to get rid of him?
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
31. So Bush fired a bunch of lawyers who refused to investigate voter fraud?
That is how the article reads.

I'm all for a juicy scandal, but how is this going to upset the average American?
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. that's their cover story, obviously
that detail had to come from the WH, so obviously it's false.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. No doubt. Still, how is this going to anger the average voter?
I'm not trying to rain on the parade here- just trying to figure out why everyone is so excited.

Bush fired some lawyers he didnt agree with- I need more than just that.
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. I had the same reaction you had
Those bastards cover themselves in every situation.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. google "saturday night massacre nixon"
he's not allowed to fire prosecutors because they won't prosecute his enemies and let his cronies off the hook. that would be, I don't know, wrong?
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. Nah, I'll wait for Top Democrats to go all over TV and explain it to me.
Or, if they cant do it, I'll catch what ever crumbs mainstream journalists toss me...

Just like for everyone else, if this is gonna stick.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
39. "Voter fraud" is, indeed, another fraud---perpetrated by BUSHCO.
There were rogged elections, all right, but VF is a complete fabrication.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
40. Incredible - trying to eliminate any one who would enforce the law on them.
I guess Bush doesn't trust the court system.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
41. The threat of being fired
is quite the abuse of power
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GreenZoneLT Donating Member (805 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 03:00 AM
Response to Original message
42. Actually, that would be less of a scandal
Since U.S. Attorney is a patronage job that routinely turns over 100 percent when the administration changes, firing ALL of them wouldn't really raise many eyebrows. Clinton replaced them all when he came into office, as did W in '01. Kind of weird for him to replace all the guys he'd appointed four years earlier, but not nefarious.

Now, firing them individually because they weren't sufficiently keen on politically motivated investigations of Democrats, or were too keen about going after Republicans, THAT's a scandal.

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ReadTomPaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #42
53. Agreed. This is something of a deflection, I believe.
I was waiting for the spin, and this appears to be it.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #42
54. GreenZone and Kagemusha are correct. This would be LESS of a scandal.
Are we sure this isn't a Rovian plant of a story? It would seem to exhonerate the WH of the worst aspect of the charge rather than the opposite.
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 05:24 AM
Response to Original message
45. kick
:)
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 05:31 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. If Dems in Congress had the courage they would
start Impeachment proceedings against AG Gonzo.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 05:29 AM
Response to Original message
46. Must be why Specter said Gonzo could be gone sooner
rather than later.

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 06:04 AM
Response to Original message
49. Saturday Night Genocide
:wow:
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MetaTrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 06:08 AM
Response to Original message
50. Not pursuing voter fraud...like Ann Coulter's felony?
She seems pretty high profile and an easy target to make an example of, but there she is still walking the streets.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 06:13 AM
Response to Original message
51. I think this story just MIGHT BE ...
A politically motivated concoction(propaganda)designed to muddy some serious water.

I think the main thing is to kill the Cunningham/Foggo case. The smut to smite the high and mighty "Morality" party is what they want to keep the lid on. WaterGate scares them in any form...just the word...and POkerGate would be the Mother Of All Scandals!

They are all a-shittin' cause they were once before smitten...by WATERGATE!


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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
55. what scumbuckets these criminals are.
they just want those bush loyalists to be put into positions. all unqualified cronies of bush and rove. Geez, when is this shit going to stop.
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shield20 Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
57. SO WHAT? Clinton fired all 93 prosecuters he inherited too!
It happens all the time! IT'S POLITICS, remember???
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #57
58. Were any of those
in the middle of his term...like, when he was being investigated or something?
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #57
59. I don't like your tone.
Can you provide us with a link? Thanks.
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bmbmd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #59
71. Drudge has one-
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #71
80. F*** Drudge.
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shield20 Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #59
78. Someone provided already, but anyway - "tone"?
Edited on Tue Mar-13-07 12:08 PM by shield20
who cares about "tone"? The facts are the facts, and issues keep getting brought up where BOTH sides are at the least equally guilty! It's silly, and helps NO ONE. Ya think Hillary wants people reminded how her husband fired 93 attorneys while she is running for the job? Or big issues made out of WalMart when she was a board member for years? Ya think Gore wants a big deal made of stupid right-wing attacks at Global warming, just so the size of HIS carbon footprint & self-investment can be made an issue - AGAIN, or Edwards dealing with the size of his house, or the religious fall-out of his bloggers because Coulter opened HER mouth again and is discussed ad nauseum?

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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #78
79. What facts?
What Clinton did was not the same and you know this.
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shield20 Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #79
82. I KNOW we know
Edited on Tue Mar-13-07 12:50 PM by shield20
but does anyone else (i.e. JQ Public) who has it brought up and compared over and over? {Clinton} DID it! So did Shrub - its SOP!

Find something else (and there is TONS!) to fight about!
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #82
85. But we can't do that.
Drudge and his ilk will continue to spread this lie and and JQ Public will think it's the truth when it's not. This has to be debunked early and hard.
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shield20 Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #85
87. I see your point in that regards - to a degree..
Edited on Tue Mar-13-07 12:58 PM by shield20
and I know Bush is still there and making a BAD impact, but neither he NOR B. CLinton are running in '08; I think THAT is the prize, any thing that somehow makes/puts real candidates on the defensive is hurtful!

Now - IF GONEzales does resign - I retract & apologize 100%!!! :)
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shield20 Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #85
89. Cat - more info from other thread - i understand NOW! Cheers! nt
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #78
95. Great summary of Right Wing Talking Points there....
Glad someone's out there doing the research.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #57
60. All US attorneys are routinely fired when a new President comes into office
THAT'S politics. And yes, Clinton and GHW Bush and GW Bush did it too.

Replacing 8 in the middle of your term because they are prosecuting Rethug corruption, or they aren't prosecuting enough Dems however isn't politics - it's obstruction of justice. Especially since it now appears that some (if not all) of the fired attorneys were getting political pressure about their investigations.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #60
110. It would be like impeaching your own judicial nomination because you don't like how they ruled!
I'm sure that some of the Republicans would have liked to have found ways to force out Souter and O'Connor, since they didn't later "measure up" to what they wanted in a SCOTUS judge. But the law doesn't work that way. They nominated them up front, and with senate approval they become judges.

The same goes, to some degree a lesser extent, with these prosecutors. They shouldn't be like cabinet appointments. They are supposed to be prosecuting justice in a neutral fashion, much like judges are also supposed to be neutral even though they are appointed by someone that hopes they reflect their values more.

Can you imagine how judges would rule if they had to fear that those who appointed them could throw them out at any time without even some sort of legislative consensus?
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #57
70. Um Bush inherited these prosecuters from HIMSELF not from Clinton
Which makes it a little bit different, don't you think? It happens when a new president takes office - it doesn't "happen all the time".
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #57
94. How many did Clinton fire during his second term?
Surely, the press would have commented on such an action during Monicagate.

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moc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #57
98. Okay, read this very carefully....
Edited on Tue Mar-13-07 01:45 PM by moc
It is standard practice to hire new USAs at the BEGINNING of an administration.

It's virtually unheard of in the MIDDLE of an administration.

We're in the MIDDLE of an administration.

Got it?

Enjoy your stay.



Edited because I can't believe how incredibly stupid some people are. :eyes:
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
62. Check this link...
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AikidoSoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
64. I think this idea that "all had to go" was put out by Harriet Miers, but it's a distraction
Edited on Tue Mar-13-07 09:24 AM by AikidoSoul
from the real goal -- to get rid of a few prosecutors who were getting to close to criminal activities by the Repugs.

This is a distraction.

The N.Y. Times this a.m. has a piece that also looks like it is a propaganda piece... leaving out important details such as the fact that the San Diego Fed Attorney was doing a terrific job... so good it was scaring those in Congress who were involved.

What a bunch of crap! This is Rovian distraction stuff and you all should be able to see it... and I think most of you do.

This a.m.'s link to the free N.Y. Times propaganda article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/13/washington/13attorneys.html?hp

edit to add link and for clarity
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
67. Not Prosecuting Enough Voter Fraud? Doesn't Pass the Smell Test For Me
Republicans work by encouraging voter suppression. Going after voter fraud isn't effective on an election outcome - it's after the fact.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
68. "First let's kill all the U.S. attorneys."
The bush-rove-gonzales version of Shakespeare.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
69. HOLY SHIT!
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MissB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #69
113. This was on the front page of my newspaper this morning.
And that is what *I* said when I saw it today.
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Cass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
73. Would this have included Fitzgerald? nt
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Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
77. Smudge trying to say Clinton did something similar..
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #77
106. Changing them at the beginning of a term is nothing new
firing ones for purely political reasons is a whole other thing. Without justification it is basically understood that US attorneys (this is from what I have read) stay for as long as they want or 4 years sometimes longer.

It will be hard to really bust anyone for this but the political power of this is fantastic.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
83. "Voter fraud" my ass........
".....complaints that U.S. attorneys were not doing enough to prosecute certain crimes such as voter fraud...."

We have a fraud problem here, and it's NOT "voter fraud", as Bush well knows. It's his fascist thugs and their engineered election fraud, intended to deprive the people of the right to vote.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
104. Isn't there rioting in Pakistan now because Musharef (sp?) tampered
with the Supreme Court?

I doubt this will even cause many Americans to bat an eye...

:evilfrown:
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
108. Well, they didn't investigate DIEBOLD!
Maybe that's why Rove wanted them fired!:sarcasm:
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
109. Was this Rove's real "October surprise" that he wanted to spring on us?
... that never really happened?
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
112. Wowzers
their arrogance is just astounding to me
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
116. K&R -- These guys are barking at the moon on a dark night.

Fire them sall. What geniuses. I guess they get frightened whenever they see a federal prosecutor just like many of us feel guilty when we see flashing red lights behind us on the highway. I almost always have reason to feel guilty in that circumstance because I'm going too fast. It isi the same deal for them. They know they're criminals.
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