Am I the only one who is repulsed by the "rock star" Presidential candidates?

[Lord Byron]

I'm sick of how Obama and Clinton are being shoved down our throats. Hillary Clinton has reinvented herself as a hawk, has always supported free trade, and has a very weak record on pretty much everything else.

Obama is...just nothing special. He spoke well in 2004. He opposed the war. But where does he stand on economic issues? Pretty much in the center. In The Audacity of Hope he makes clear his support of the worker-stabbing "New Economy." He also is heavily favored by moneyed interests and his political machine. I also read just now that he's hooking up with Harold Ford and the DLC. What is going on here?

Am I alone in being absolutely pissed off at this media-pushed race between two corporate trojan horses (in my opinion)?

Oh wait, but these guys are "rock stars." "Yay first woman president! first black president!" That's all very nice (makes good news coverage), but I tend to look at their stand on the issues, and the media aren't going to fool me.

[fooj]

1. I don't want a "rock star"...I want a LEADER...A President.

[Crabby Appleton]

Me too!

[Luckyduck]

10. exactly

We need to have higher standards for our president.

Currently the only leader running I see is Dennis Kucinich.

[NotGivingUp]

69. agreed...kucinich is substance...not fluff n/t

[NYCGirl]

2. "Hooking up with Harold Ford and the DLC"? You got some proof? Link? NT

[Lord Byron]

9. here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x39685

[NYCGirl]

13. Not conclusive. Sounds like Ford's pumping up his own importance.

And not this either:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/25/AR2007012501231.html

Because Ford is talking about Obama does not mean Obama is DLC.

[rinsd]

26. In addition what Democrat would say he won't work with a large chunk of the elected party members?

[Clark2008]

36. Well, Obama did come to Tennessee to campaign with Ford.

For what that's worth.

[femrap]

56. And snubbed Ned Lamont...

He was hawking his book in nearby Massachusetts but wouldn't stop in CT to campaign.

I'm really not impressed with him...

[Blue_In_AK]

3. You're not alone, Lord Byron.

[skipos]

4. "he's hooking up with Harold Ford and the DLC"

What does "hooking up" mean?

[Lord Byron]

11. this is what it means:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x39685

*posted above too*

[Crabby Appleton]

5. I couldn't agree more

[The Count]

6. Media has always sucessfully manipulated our primaries. Yup, it's disgusting.

I remember whan a former "rock star" was a non-descript guy named Warner. had fans here and everything. Same with Evan Bayh.
Others of course are always omitted from the coverage.

[NotGivingUp]

70. i was watching jeopardy and none of the contestants knew who kucinich was by his photo

i said that figures...they avoid putting him on msm like the plague

[The Count]

76. Same with Clark. Won a state in 2004, CNN refused to announce it!

Columbia Journalism review did a piece on the vow of silence on him during the primaries.
Same with Tasini who challenged Hillary for senate. Interviews were taken but not aired.

[booley]

7. No, you're not

What I know about Hillery makes me not want to vote for her even if she does get the nomination and I simply don't enough about Obama to make a decision either way.

[Kerrytravelers]

8. I'm not crazy about a lot of things the media covers.

Just because they have been dubbed "rock stars" doesn't mean that was their intent.

And, at this time, I have no candidate that I am supporting. I wait and see what they actually have to say.

[The Count]

14. Always an ulterior motive for media embracing. usually being a non-threat

to the GOP-er. Or, being trustworthy to do their bidding.

[TechBear_Seattle]

12. Image is everything. Substance is irrelevant. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

I happen to agree with you. It's like being given a choice between a bowl of cake frosting and a bowl of whipped cream. A diet of nothing but fluffy desserts can kill you pretty quickly, and the Democrats have been remarkably short on meat, grains and salads in the last few years.

I WANT MY CRUNCHY GRANOLA, DAMMIT! :hi:

[MetaTrope]

21. You're not happy with picking out the half-digested seeds from the Republican offerings?

:hurts:

[TechBear_Seattle]

67. You know what that image brings to mind?

Those bits from nature documentaries that show plants sprouting out of rotting clumps of elephant dung.

Unfortunately, the plants that are sprouting are all highly toxic except to a very few specialized species who thrive on consuming the poison that drops from an elephant's behind.

[MADem]

15. Nope. Not sick of any of them. Not Barack, not Hill, not Dennis, not Joe, not Bill,

and all the rest...none of them. I'm hoping Al Sharpton gets off his ass and declares, I can't WAIT to hear from him.

Many voices, many ideas. When they're up on that stage for the debates, EVERYONE gets a chance to spout off. And with the spouting comes a better platform. Let the games begin!

If it really bothers you, change the channel. No sense having a cow over something you can easily control with a click. Life is too short to let stuff like that worry you. Vote with your remote.

And keep in mind that Ed Muskie was once the 'anointed' one, many years ago. So don't fret about who comes out of the gate first, they don't always cross the finish line first.

[originalpckelly]

45. I know, aside from Dennis and Al, I want to hear all the dissenting views on how to...

shove a red, white and blue boot up my ass.

[MADem]

48. Gee. How cynical. You may as well stay home then, I guess.

Or run yourself, and put your two cents in.

[originalpckelly]

49. Not old enough yet, unfortunately...

or I would be running. This nation needs a hell of a lot of reform.

[MADem]

62. Ah, I see.

That's actually helpful to know. You have the enthusiasm of youth.

[Smarmie Doofus]

16. You have Clinton down; no question.

Obama is still 'inventing' himself, if not reinventing himself. A wait and see attitude seems appropriate.

I don't think Clinton will be nominated. The primary electorate is , well, 'the Democratic wing of the Democratic party'. She's gone too far to the right and there's no going back. Her lackluster Senate record does not help.

The media does not impact the DEM primary process much anymore. We're way ahead of them and the $$$ media is openly reactionary.

You can fool some of the people some of the time; I doubt the media can fool DEM primary voters. We're more concerned about real stuff like the war.

[SweetGrass]

17. Agreed!

I can't stand the "rock star" political candidate phenomenon, either! The media sucks.

[Pacifist Patriot]

18. I haven't been wowed by either one.

Frankly, I haven't quite grasped the adoration or the hatred directed at these two. Neither seem worthy of that much emotion.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

19. Reminds me of

Bill Maher talking about fake outrage.

[jannyk]

20. I personally don't care whether they are fat, piebald

and covered in warts - I want substance! A reader, knowledeable in history and foreign affairs. The media makes me sick.

[Lord Byron]

22. Substance

That's the problem with Obama. He says all the right thing, but in the dire economic situation the American people are in, we need action and not just pretty words.

[WI_DEM]

23. I know of no one who calls Hillary a "rock star" they are usually ones who are

charismatic and have great oratorical skills like Bill Clinton. I think there is excitement over a Hillary run as the first woman with a good chance of being nominated and elected president but she certainly doesn't have the charisma her husband had. And nobody is pushing anybody down anybody's throat. It's the same arguement people made about Dean in 2003--we had primaries and voters choose the nominee.

[Lord Byron]

25. The media kept replaying the Dean scream

Then they said "voters might think Dean is unelectable" enough times for voters to finally see this little opinion as common fact.

The media do matter.

[WI_DEM]

37. As a Dean supporter for '04 I agree the Dean Scream thing after Iowa

was indeed media overkill.

[Bridget Burke]

24. Do you like any possible Democratic candidates?

If you want to talk about issues, please do!

[Lord Byron]

30. I care about economic issues the most

Social security, labor, trade. Kucinich has a great record here. Edwards says the right words but his record is so-so. I really liked Feingold. I love the Webb-Dorgan-Sanders-Brown Senate faction.

I also care about the war. Kucinich wants to bring the troops home ASAP. I feel I can trust him. Other candidates seem like they're just doing what's politically expedient.

[rinsd]

35. Enough moral victories leaving us ultimately powerless.

Dennis Kucinich will never win the Presidency.

I want a Democratic President with a Democratic Congress to enact at least portions.

Most of the Dem candidates see eye to eye on most of the important issues.

The all or nothing gambit is foolish.

[originalpckelly]

47. It depends on how much we think we get from the DLCers...

quite frankly I think we're beginning to figure out the intention of that group, and it is nothing more than to sell out America. They support "free" trade agreements which screw over Americans and the people who get our jobs, just so that the rich owners of big companies can have higher profits. They're all bought. If you don't believe me, just look at FEC.gov, and look at the contributions members of the DLC get. It's sick.

And I'm not a socialist or a communist either, I just recognize that the current system is a different way of fucking over America.

[druidity33]

91. you must be right...

seeing as how you're a Yankees fan and all...

:crazy:

[cascadiance]

57. Lord, I feel pretty much the same way you do!

I'm looking for someone of substance and first and foremost, someone without or minimal corporate influence. I thought that person would be Feingold for me earlier. Without him in the race for the top slot, I'm really hoping Gore checks in later and takes Feingold as his running mate. As for the rest of the field, Hillary really makes me feel like she's the corporate people's choice to from a PR standpoint "be a rockstar" but from the corporate people's real agenda be the person they want to own or have lose to someone else that they can own.

Obama I'm not sure about yet. Jury is still out yet for him. I'd really like some tangible progressive accomplishments and voting record he has behind him instead of just flowery words. I do like his charisma, which I think would help a lot in the election, but I want to make sure he's of the right mindset to do what's good for the people of this country, and not the corporations of this country.

Edwards also talks nicely and a bit nicer for the grass roots than Obama, but I'm still not sold on him yet either. Kucinich I like most of what he's done and is saying, but I'm still not convinced he can win just yet.

Clark if he gets into the race might be the unknown quantity who could rise to the top and not be owned by corporate America too. I'm willing to accept some of his ideas being less progressive if he's not owned by corporate America.

Biden, Bayh, and Vilsack are all too DLC for me. Perhaps Richardson might be good. Still need to look at him more.

Ultimately I still hope it will wind up being Gore/Feingold. Still would like to think that's possible.

[Catherine Vincent]

27. Obama and Clinton are not "rock star status"

as the media puts it. They are both politicians looking to win the democratic nomination just like the rest of them. It just so happens they are more well known than the others....especially Clinton. That is all.

[rinsd]

32. I don;t think Clinton has the status but I think Obama may have it

He's got all the elements of the rockstar pol; interesting life story, telegenic, charismatic, well-spoken. Better yet he has the Democratic money and machine people excited.

If going from Illinois legislature to running for Prez in 6 years isn't a rockstar, I'm not sure what is.

[shadowknows69]

28. Here

Kucinich is the best person for the job running right now. Period. And he won't get a lick of press except to point out how far to the left he is and how unelectable he is.

[Lord Byron]

31. ...and the fact that he looks like the Keebler elf

*rolls eyes*

Someone should say that this is an election, not a beauty pageant.

[shadowknows69]

39. How should that matter

GW is the goofiest, ugliest branch of his unfortunate family tree but someone voted for that joke twice. I'd rather have a beer with Dennis. More interesting conversation less likeliehood of a cow tipping contest later in the night.

[MADem]

52. And he has been married several times, his latest wife is a foot taller than him and NOT

American...and he isn't afraid to sing "Sixteen Tons."

Right now, the focus is on the people jumping in the pool. And the ones who are smart have media advisors who are calling around and SCHEDULING the candidate for shows. For every invitation Senator Clinton has gotten to appear, her staff has probably solicited as least one. Bill Richardson is pacing himself, but he's getting out there, too, between trying to round up donors. No doubt he's trying for a chunk of the Kerry pie, too.

You don't run your campaign by sitting back and WAITING for the media to come to you--you go to the media, and you go with something that will boost their ratings.

If Kucinich wanted to get some free time, he'd drag his Brit wife along...there's a human interest hook the media types would love. And I bet he'll do that...but not NOW. Later, when the field is gelled and he's looking for a way to stand out.

[rinsd]

29. Rockstars win. And winning is what is important.

I rather have someone win and get some of my stuff done then someone who promises everything I want yet can't get it done because they are powerless.

[gatorboy]

33. Who did you have in mind? n/t

[Lord Byron]

34. see post 30

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

38. It bothers me a lot. I don't hate these candidates, I just hate the idea that they are the only

viable ones is being pushed on America.

Just like I hated the way that same concept was pushed with Howard Dean.

[scarletwoman]

40. I'm with you. Our country is in desperate need of truth, above all else.

The institutions (government, media, political parties & partisans) that surround us are precisely designed for, and dedicated to, keeping us away from the truth, in order that those who hold power can expand and perpetuate their power.

It ought to be instructive to any thinking person to take notice of which institutional powers are pushing *their* favored candidates. Then ask yourself, are those supporters/financers/propagandists really on OUR side?

sw

[peacebaby3]

41. Oh God...here we go again! I just love these threads bashing our own candidates.

:puke:

[Lord Byron]

42. What?

That's why we have a primary process: to decide which candidate is the worthiest. The process involves "bashing." Just because someone has a "D" next to their name doesn't make them immune to popular grassroots criticism.

Edit: just ask Joementum.

[peacebaby3]

51. I've seen what most of your posts on this board have been about.

Including the first thread you ever started here. Criticism is one thing, but you have an agenda and it's very obvious. You have been corrected by other DUers on other threads about the DLC connection, yet you are still spewing the same rhetoric.

And no, "bashing" is not necessary in the primary process! If you think it is, that's part of your problem.

[Epiphany4z]

43. There will always be one or two

I don't mind so long as the rock star can lead. With cable news shows being what they are any front runner is going to seem like the rock start canidate....What I do know is things can change fast and we have long long way to go yet...

[ms liberty]

44. I think we're all sick of having the 08 race shoved down our throats...

a YEAR before the primaries even start.

Welcome to DU!

[Hippo_Tron]

60. Unfortunately that's how the system works now, the fundraising is a primary in itself

Candidates have to declare so early because they need to raise millions of dollars to be viable. This started in 2000 when Bush got his father to raise him so much money that McCain couldn't possibly compete. As primaries became front loaded the early money raisers have a bigger advantage.

I personally think we should move the primaries back to where they used to be but the DNC hates this because party insiders don't have influence through fundraising and our nominee is picked later.

[Captain Hilts]

46. Then you sure would have hated Roosevelt in '32, '36, etc. and Clinton in '92.

Why let the media aggravate you?

[Rosemary2205]

50. LOL - hey, who needs Hannity to trash the Dems when we have DU?

While I agree that we need to bitchslap the corps and the media is next to useless -- that's hardly the PURPOSE of a fuck Hillary and Obama thread.

ROFL.

Though I admit, my fav so far is the "OMG Kucinich shook Bush's hand!!111!!!" thread.

[MADem]

54. You got that right. But as for the media, if you don't like the shit they spout, there IS something

that one can do: pick up the remote, and push the fucking button that CHANGES the CHANNEL!!! Or even more boldly, TURN THE THING OFF.

That is the ultimate slap we can give them--deny them our eyes on their ads.

People who constantly cry about what's on TV remind me of children who are trapped in their high chairs, whining about their oatmeal....the only thing is, these whiners are not trapped in high chairs, they aren't being FED, they have a choice. And if it's too damned much to pick up that remote control and change the channel, well, I'm all out of sympathy for them. They choose to wallow in their misery, they fail to be discerning consumers.

There's also the call/write/complain avenue, but it seems that once the complaints get here, that's as far as they go. I'm all out of pity...I keep fresh batteries in my remote!!

[TornadoTN]

74. While I agree in principle, there is some merit

I am supporting Obama for a host of reasons, but I also understand the frustration with the "rock star" moniker that is being put on his head. He's a lot of things, but a rock star he is not - popular yes. It just goes to give the illusion that he is somehow all flash and no substance, which I guess we should expect from the corporate media.

We dealt with this during the election with Harold Ford, Jr. being dubbed "the Rock Star". Then as the election drew to a close, we found out that he was "all flash and no substance". With Ford leading the DLC, we can expect a lot more of the same. From pandering and romancing the right wing to downright abandoning any sense of Democratic values just to chase that mythical cross-over fundamental conservative vote, we're in for a tough ride with the likes of Ford in command.

[sweetheart]

53. just part of the gauntlet

The media throw whatever label at a candidate.

I haven't heard a single one sing a rock song... really.

[mikelgb]

55. We want Kucinich for President....

[roguevalley]

58. no. i hate this too. anything that trivializes this stuff is wrong.

[Hippo_Tron]

59. There are three viable candidates Hillary, Obama, Edwards

The fact is that with front loaded primaries there are no dark horses anymore. You need to be able to raise $75-$100 million before Iowa and those three are the only ones who can do it (particularly Hillary and Obama).

If Wes Clark gets in he might be able to do it and Al Gore certainly would be able to if he got in. But there's a lack of activity from both of them aside from rumors.

IMO, if you want an economic populist who is against trade than Edwards is probably your best bet.

Personally, trade is pretty much the only thing I like about Hillary and I still haven't made up my mind about Obama.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

85. "Viable" as designated by the MSM and the corporate funders

:puke:

[Hippo_Tron]

86. It has nothing to do with the MSM and everything to do with the primary system

The fact is that you need to raise millions of dollars before Iowa and if you can't, your chances are slim to none. This was not the case between 1976-1996. Candidates could rise from obscurity by winning Iowa or New Hampshire and then could spend a few weeks raising funds to compete with the initial party favorites.

The system changed because starting in 2000 primaries became extremely front loaded (all of the states want more influence so they want to go earlier) and at the same time, Dubya used his father's connections to raise an unprecedented amount of money for a presidential primary campaign.

Unless an underdog sweeps all of the first four states this time (Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, and Nevada) then they stand very little chance against the top three names. Remember that once the window opens we'll have a probably 10 state mini Tuesday the following week. That means that if Hillary, Obama, or Edwards wins just one of those first four states they will still be in the game and still have a huge financial advantage over an underdog going into the 10 state mini Tuesday. The underdog simply won't have the time to raise the money needed to compete.

I wish this was just an illusion by the MSM and the corporate funders but it's not. The party hacks have found a way to take control of the nomination process again by choosing who they will raise money for and the system is about as democratic as the system that nominated Hubert Humphrey in 1968.

[grasswire]

61. thank you

I'm sick of it, too. I don't want the press corps picking our candidate just because it's a great story line.

[Triana]

63. I'm SO not impressed w/ Obama or Hillary...

...I like Edwards. Gore, if he runs, but he isn't. I don't buy the propaganda and I don't like Hillary's stand on many issues. I'd vote for either if they're the nom, however, probably won't vote for them in the primaries.

[Apollo11]

64. Al Gore is so much more than a "Rock Star"

How else can we explain the fact that 10 000 people turned out to see him speak about the climate crisis in Boise, Idaho on Monday evening?

He has a certain quality. Let's call it "leadership" ...

Let's all find ways to show our support for Al Gore! :)

In Gore We Trust
www.algore.com
www.algore.org
www.draftgore.com - Sign the petition!
www.draftgore2008.org
www.patriotsforgore.com

[Jacobin]

65. I find it appalling

And CERTAIN to lead to further disasters.

[mwb970]

66. At least they are talking about *Democrats*.

Would you rather the media were obsessed with McCain and Giuliani?

[JacksonWest]

68. I want a rock star-preferably James Dio

[Alamom]

71. We got a down to earth, good ole boy the last time (per the MSM)

and that has worked out real well :sarcasm:
What or who would you suggest? Anyone running with hopes of being elected, has no control over the MSM, Newspapers and (NOW) Internet Fame. Fanclubs at your fingertips.

Pelosi is or almost (is) in that category and she would not want it....we made her a STAR because we love her.




I'm sure there are no sexist or racist thoughts involved. When these remarks are made about Clinton and Obama, it's hard to know......

[AlCzervik]

72. actually only Rockstars should be referred to as Rockstars imo, a whole host of people are tagged

with that label not just a few deomcrats.

[Armstead]

73. I'll second the motion

It's typical of the media. Someone comes up with a catchy turn of phrase, and the next thing you know everybody's parroting it.

Maybe at least they could call the contenders Movie Stars. :)

But in a more serious vein, I also agree with you that neither hilary or Obama have shown much to recommend them except personal history and , in Obama's case, a dynamite speech.

[redqueen]

75. NO!

I'm 100% with you. It sickens me to see such fawning support so soon. Absolutely disgusts me.

[Lord Byron]

79. Yes!

And to the poster who questioned whether I was racist or sexist: no. I'm of mixed race myself and was brought up by a widowed mother. I don't think we should play race or gender politics. The election is about the issues.

[WinkyDink]

77. We live in a time where the banal and the puerile are the exemplars.

[redqueen]

78. And *furthermore* I don't even quite trust Gore!

He was key in pushing through NAFTA.

[Lord Byron]

80. Yes!

I like you RedQueen. I've made a thread about Gore and NAFTA. My concerns weren't addressed and I became somewhat convinced that the Gore-love is a bit over-the-top. He's against the war though, so that gives him a little credit.

[redqueen]

83. That movie did a lot for his image...

as well as his other actions trying to push the issue to the forefront.

But we should not be voting on IMAGE. (Fair disclosure, I'm a Kucitizen :))

I like you too. :)

[SaveElmer]

81. Uh NO...is this your first election...

The nature of the media coverage cannot possibly be a surprise to you...

And no, not sick of the coverage at all...every minute Hillary, or Obama, or Edwards, or any of the other Democrats are on TV, just makes the contrast with the other side more stark!!!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

82. You are not alone, LB

Our country is in the deepest trouble it has been since the Depression, and I'm looking for substance. I don't care if that person is black, white, or green with purple polka dots. I don't care whether that person is male, female, or transgendered.

I want someone who can stop this military madness and convince the American people that it's the right thing to do. I want someone who can call bullshit on the "war on terror" and do so convincingly. I want someone who can propose what the country really needs domestically: single-payer or nationalized health care, affordable housing in all types of communities, and all sorts of measures to wean us off petroleum: mass transit, intercity rail, retrofitting of car-dependent suburbs, and a crash research program into alternatives to the plastics and other petrochemicals that we use everyday. Far from destroying jobs, the measures to wean us off petroleum would CREATE blue collar and white collar jobs.

But all I see from the MSM-crowned candidates are platitudes, platitudes, and more platitudes, spiked with a touch of namby-pamby conventional wisdom and corporate pandering (particularly on health care).

I'm beyond disgusted with the political process in this country--and with the people who don't realize that the "rock star" approach to presidential candidates is precisely what gave us the Bushboy.

[Lord Byron]

84. Great points

Have you read Obama's book? I wrote a review on it here on DU about how it's nothing but platitudes. It's shocking.

[scarletwoman]

88. Oh THANK you, Lydia! That was beautifully said!

I can't add anything, you've totally nailed it! :toast:

sw

[blues90]

87. I am sick of all the 2008 talk !

The way things are now so entirely screwed up I could care less about 2008 right now .

God only knows where each of us will be by 2008 the way things are going in this country and in the middle east , many may be living on the streets well before 2008 .

To me this 2008 banter is nothing more than political game making and cheer leading at it's best .

Oh certainly if you are doing well in this shot to hell economy then have at it as a game if you will and sit back and hope you are not taken down a few notches closer to the poverty level with your grandstanding games .

[TheWraith]

89. Oh good, another silly and ridiculous thread. We didn't have enough of those before.

God knows that your input is needed, sir, because we didn't already have a large enough contingent here dedicated to bashing any Democrat who has a prayer in hell of winning. And sheesh, it's not like you need actual facts to base your opinions on or anything. You've got more than enough preconceived notions, so all you really need to do is throw around a few choice strawmen--DLC! New Economy! Corporatist! MSM!--like they actually mean anything, to support your conspiracy theory about how all news media is secretly in on a conspiracy to rig the Democratic primary. I take it, being intellectually honest and all, you said the same thing last time when Howard Dean was the media darling?

[TheWraith]

90. Oh, good, another silly and ridiculous thread. We didn't have enough of those before.

God knows that your input is needed, sir, because we didn't already have a large enough contingent here dedicated to bashing any Democrat who has a prayer in hell of winning. And sheesh, it's not like you need actual facts to base your opinions on or anything. You've got more than enough preconceived notions, so all you really need to do is throw around a few choice strawmen--DLC! New Economy! Corporatist! MSM!--like they actually mean anything, to support your conspiracy theory about how all news media is secretly in on a conspiracy to rig the Democratic primary. I take it, being intellectually honest and all, you said the same thing last time when Howard Dean was the media darling?

[BlueIris]

92. Billary=souless. Obama...two words: Alito filibuster.

I was done after that. Dead to me. Totally dead to me.

Rock star, schmock star. This is RIDICULOUS. In 2009, this country and the world it is still tangentially "welcome" in are going to be one HELL of a mess. Rock stars, especially those with two years "experience," have no business claiming they can fix any of it. The Democrats' so-called "image problem" isn't, and never has been, that bad.

[Megahurtz]

93. RUN GORE, RUN!!!!

:bounce: