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Native Americans win ruling on Sacred Mountain!!!!!

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azndndude Donating Member (484 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 11:21 AM
Original message
Native Americans win ruling on Sacred Mountain!!!!!
This is great news!!!!!!!! perhaps there is justice in this country when it comes to Native American beliefs
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0313snowbowl0313.html
notice all the racist comments at the end of the article.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
1. Oh, that is good news indeed. :^D
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-14-07 04:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
37. More info on the San Francisco Peaks as a sacred site
http://www.sacredland.org/endangered_sites_pages/sfpeaks.html

San Francisco Peaks

From many places in northern Arizona, the horizon is dramatically marked by three 12,000-foot volcanic peaks that rise out of the Colorado Plateau south of the Grand Canyon and north of Flagstaff. The San Francisco Peaks are sacred to 13 tribes. For the Navajo, the Peaks are the sacred mountain of the west, Doko’oo’sliid, “Shining On Top,” a key boundary marker and a place where medicine men collect herbs for healing ceremonies. To the Hopi, the Peaks are Nuvatukaovi, “The Place of Snow on the Very Top,” home for half of the year to the ancestral kachina spirits who live among the clouds around the summit. When properly honored through song and ceremony, the kachinas bring gentle rains to thirsty corn plants. The peaks are one of the “sacred places where the Earth brushes up against the unseen world,” in the words of Yavapai-Apache Chairman Vincent Randall.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
2. I really didn't expect them to win
go figure. way to go!
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TheBaldyMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
3. don't eat that yellow snow!
good news for the enviroment as well, ski-ing can degrade then alpine ecosystem through overuse.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
4. "Come ski on our sewage!"
What a wonderful advertising slogan the ski lodge could have had. But, alas, it is not to be. ;-)
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DKRC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. Great news!

But read some of the comments below the article. They're outrageous! Especially the one about the tribes trying to '"take back" whatever it is they think they've lost.' ... Er? All of North, Central, and South America was lost.
Obviously someone slept through History class & got his/her facts from old John Wayne movies on Saturdays.
:eyes:
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Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. They think they're John Wayne in "The Searchers"
The 101st Keyboard Division puts out some bad dudes. Just pray they don't leave mom's basement and come after you.

;-)
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gatorboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. I've seen these people in action.
Edited on Tue Mar-13-07 03:44 PM by gatorboy
They can throw a mean Twinkie...

"Flubby Powers...ACTIVATE!"

"Form of...Ann Coulter's Rectum!"

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MLFerrell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. LOL!
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DKRC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #11
30. Never happen.
I possess The Dread Mommy Voice.
That alone will quell any rash moves to leave their lair & take me on.

:evilgrin:
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
6. K & R!
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
7. K&R. n/t
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geardaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. Yes...Kicked and Recommended!
Awesome news!
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
9. I didn't notice that many racist comments.
In fact, many of the comments posted are from Native Americans.
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #9
25. really?
I tripped over a few, just opening the first page of comments. Some of it was a little disturbing... :(. Yes there are comments from Natives, but the chorus of ALL CAPS SWEARING NAYSAYERS kinda drowns them out...

As for the pro-reclaimed water arguments crowd who say, yes it is "fine for the environment, they even use it on golf courses!" as long as you don't want animals to visit or plants to grow well, then i'd say GO FOR IT!

I hope the fact that it's the 9th Circuit's decision doesn't torpedo the ruling...

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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
10. Whoever had the not-so-brilliant idea of opening Snow Bowl should have taken Rocks for Jocks
at the very least (I did). I'm a Zonie myself and went to NAU. The gorgeous San Francisco Peaks were never meant to have snow every winter.

Don't you just love it when intellect and justice work together? This judge GETS IT:"To get some sense of equivalence," Judge William A. Fletcher wrote for the panel, "it may be useful to imagine the effect on Christian beliefs and practices - and the imposition that Christians would experience - if the government were to require that baptisms be carried out with 'reclaimed water.' "

The Forest Service argued that improving the quality of skiing fulfilled its mandate to provide "multiple uses" to the public on the federal land.

But the judges said the government had no obligation to help a commercial ski area extend its skiing.

"We are struck by the obvious fact that the Peaks are located in a desert," the judges wrote. "It is (and always has been) predictable that some winters will be dry."


Dear Mr. Businessman, here's a helpful climate tip for you: Desert winters are DIFFERENT than non-desert winters. Sheesh.

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IanBean Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
12. I don't see the problem
Will using treated sewage water to make snow be bad for the environment?
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Um--read the article or at least thru the responses.
It's a sacred mountain, and one of the judges made the perfect analogy to explain it.

You won't last long here if you post without reading; this place can get brutal.
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IanBean Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. What mountain isn't sacred
answer that
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-14-07 02:57 AM
Response to Reply #19
34. That's easy, any mountain that doesn't have religious significance...
in one of three areas isn't considered sacred, that includes Oral and Written accounts of past worship or reverence, if grave sites are nearby, or if there were artifacts and traces of buildings near or on these mountains. Most people seem to forget that many sites were sacred to many different tribes as places of worship and reverence, tribal burial grounds, etc. and that they usually used the same sites for hundreds of years, most didn't stop using such sites till forcibly removed from their original locations during the second half of the 19th century.
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IanBean Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-14-07 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. still haven't named a single non sacred mountain
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tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-14-07 04:16 AM
Response to Reply #19
40. Link to answer
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
14. K&R.(nt)
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
15. I'm glad to hear it.
You'd think after 515 of Western pillaging, and after 231 of so-called religious freedom, you wouldn't have to post articles like this as if they were something out of the ordinary. But it is out of the ordinary. Let's hope it becomes the norm.

Nice to see you again, Friend! :hi:

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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I love what one of the judges wrote; dead-on perfect analogy:
"To get some sense of equivalence," Judge William A. Fletcher wrote for the panel, "it may be useful to imagine the effect on Christian beliefs and practices - and the imposition that Christians would experience - if the government were to require that baptisms be carried out with 'reclaimed water.' "


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azndndude Donating Member (484 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. nice to hear from you too!
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
18. eighteenth recommend, baby!
lets rock the house for some first nations people.
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Squatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
20. Does Sunrise ski resort used treated waste water to make snow?
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azndndude Donating Member (484 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. no they dont
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
23. Meegwich for Doko’oosliid,

One of the FOUR SACRED CORNERS for this Turtle Island (North American) continent we all call home.

This ruling is of inestimable spiritual import

http://www.8thfire.net/Day_175.html

"There’s a dramatic view far off to the southeast to what the Hopi call Nuvatuka’Ovi, the Navajo call Doko’oosliid, some locals call the Kachina Peaks, and tourists call the San Francisco Peaks of Flagstaff, Arizona. These peaks mark the west boundary of the Four Corners."

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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
24. Odd. Treated wastewater is biologically inert.
In fact, there are areas in this country where it is recycled back into the drinking water. If you've ever been to LA and drank water that originated in the California Aqueduct, you've drank water that was partially comprised of treated wastewater. From an environmental standpoint, I don't see the argument against the water itself.

Now, the ecological impacts of snowmaking are a slightly different story (increased erosion and huge power requirements being among the greatest issues), but the water? We humans need to get over our sense of "icky". Every drop of water on this planet has been swallowed and pissed back out of a living creature at some point in the Earth's history. In a closed system, all water gets recycled.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
27. Blessed be!
:hi:

This is great news, for a change.

Hekate

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Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
28. Bush will have the Supreme Court overturn the 9th
if the company makes a significant contribution to the republican party.
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judaspriestess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
29. wtf
"Signed,
Chief Doubledown"


gotta read the post, what a fucking poor excuse of a human being. this bottomfeeder is making a comment of how its ok to "rape" grandma at the blackjack table but its wrong to make shit flavored snow. People are so stupid. This is about sacred land not about making money.
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Jcrowley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
31. Fabulous
K&R
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azndndude Donating Member (484 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
32. pic of peaks
Edited on Tue Mar-13-07 09:29 PM by azndndude
still in shock! here is the sacred western mountain of the Navajo. One of 4 mountains sacred to the Navajo and other tribes in the southwest.
for more info visit www.savethepeaks.org

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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-14-07 02:10 AM
Response to Original message
33. Smile ...
Yesss! Wonderful.Something going right in this mess.

But you know the history of bouncing "treaties" with the 'government...I hope the tribe keeps the mountain safe & sacred forever!
Happy!
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Broken_Hero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-14-07 03:14 AM
Response to Original message
35. Great news,
and those comments at the end of the article....

:wtf: :argh:
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-14-07 03:34 AM
Response to Original message
36. "In the Light of Reverance"
Edited on Wed Mar-14-07 03:53 AM by Pachamama
It's a movie my friend Toby Mcleod did six years ago that shows several sacred sites in the US and the significance and meaning to the native american tribes. It's a must see movie and it also shows the insensitivity and lack of respect for their religion and beliefs by non-natives.

http://www.sacredland.org/reverence.html

http://www.nativetelecom.org/realmedia/video/ilor/index.html

I am really happy about this ruling....sadly, for a case like this, there are 100's of ones that didn't turn out so happy for the tribe.

Can you imagine how the fundies would feel if some site that Jesus walked was used for a sewage treatment plant? That's how the tribe feels about what was being proposed....And while Christian Fundies would say that you can't equate with the experience of Jesus, that isn't the case for the natives who worship differently.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-14-07 04:02 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. Your screen-name is appropos to this discussion! n/t
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-14-07 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. And as you may have guessed, there is a reason for my screen name...
I've been actively involved in protecting Pachamama for over a decade....its why I chose her as my screen name.... :hi:
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