The Democratic Party is DEAD to me

[itsmesgd]

I have put off writing this headline many times. I almost wrote it when the "non-binding resolution" mess started. I also wanted to write it when it came to the "impeachment is off the table" moment happened.

I finally wrote this headline when I heard (on my day old podcast of Mike Malloy) that the dems had pulled the clause from the upcoming military spending bill that would compel Bush to come to Congress to gain authorization for any action in Iran. I see this as the dems bending over and spreading for Bush (sorry for the mental pic). I don't mean to be anti-AIPAC or anything, but to see the way that the dems folded for AIPAC is shameful. I cannot believe that they stated that they did not want to tie Bushes hands should he need to defend Israel. This would not tie his hands, all he would have to do is come before Congress before starting the next war. I'm sure that Congress would be willing to bend over for AIPAC when and if something should ever happen to them. I cant believe it that the dems are just giving up. So I give up on them. Someone needs to remind the dems that they represent us and not AIPAC. I see where Pelosi is scheduled to speak to AIPAC today (3/13). Come on guys.

The democratic party has completely folded and written off this year, the next war, and their appeasement of Bush is more than shameful. I cant believe that they are giving Bush carte blanche to do whatever he wants.

If there is any good news in all of this, I hope that Bush will not feel the need to cause an attack to happen here to provide him the excuse to eventually nuke Iran for PNAC and AIPAC. Congress has bent over and Bush can now have his way with this bunch of bitches.

I have often criticized anarchists because I know that we need a government in some manner, but I think that a good cleansing may be in order. Simply electing democrats did not work this time and I think that electing a democratic president will help either, especially if they will continue the current trend of bending over for corporations and special interests.

Thank you for allowing me to rant.
Dave

[demrabble]

1. Ummm.. You DO Realize This is DEMOCRATIC Underground

You do realize, I hope, that this is Democratic Underground.

Some of us are unhappy with the way the Democrats are doing things.

But some of us also are committed to bring about change within the Democratic Party (and thereby within the country).

[itsmesgd]

18. I realise that this is the Democratic Underground

that is why I might be moving on sometime soon. I fought and worked for the Democrats to get into powet this past election and they have disappointed me by failing to do what they promised. So instead of overtly trashing them. I may just move on and move out. I like Belgium and The Netherlands and I am job hunting in Germany. I love this country, but often times I feel like I am in the minority when it comes to being willing to fight for my ideals.

[demrabble]

Well, Hope YOU Find Happiness

I hope you find happiness in Belgium or the Netherlands or Germany or where ever.

Some of us will remain here in the USA -- and in the Democratic Party -- to fight the good fight.

I don't see the choices as being "overtly trash them" or "move out".

I think a third option is to remain and fight for what you believe in -- even if, in so doing, you fell like you are in a minority.

But, as I said, I hope YOU find YOUR happiness.

[skipos]

41. I recommend moving on and moving out

if it bothers you so much.

[bobbolink]

172. Yup, more DLC ridding the party of actual Democrats.

It's been working so well.

:nuke:

[Parche]

124. DEMS

What month is this?

It is only March 13th, the Dems have had control for 2months now....

Do you know how many hearings they have had?
Do you know what they have done in the first '100' hours?

They have done more in 2months then the Repubes in 6-12years.....


Remember.............Rome wasnt built in a day..............

It takes time to figure out and investigate a complete and total mess of our Government

[bobbolink]

159. In other words, "Drink Up That Koolaid, Son....It's Getting Warm"

You're on the right track.

It's too bad you'll get nailed to a cross for it.

You called it for what it is.

Take good care of yourself! :hug:

[RiverStone]

170. 75 members of the Out Of Iraq Caucus are frustrated too!

I love this country, but often times I feel like I am in the minority when it comes to being willing to fight for my ideals.

And they also may feel in the minority, yet itsmesgd - as Congressional Representatives they will not (or should not) throw up their hands in frustration and walk away.

Many of us share your frustration (I certainly do) and am mystified by Nancy & Co.'s actions capitulating to Shrub so easily on this. Yet my hope is beyond your frustration, you will find that there are still many, many DEMS - both on The Hill and here on DU, who believe that the fight is still worth it.

Russ Feingold does. And if anyone could give assertiveness training to Nancy and Harry, it is Russ.

We need your passion and energy and my hope is months from now, when our core leaders finally are doing the work of We The People on limiting Shrub's executive authority - that you will be glad you stayed - because YOU itsmesgd were part of making that happen.

That is my hope :)

[Morgana LaFey]

27. Oh, please -- it's also open to everyone on the left, with the

exception (usually) that they can't try to advocate for their presidential candidate closer to election time.

[demrabble]

Oh, Please Yourself

It seems to me that anyone who announces that the Democratic Party is DEAD to her/him is sort of out of place here.

[itsmesgd]

45. how am I out of place??

I am an advocate of the Democratic party but their actions of late show a willingness to comply with Bushco's every whim and it also shows that they are OK with Bushco launching a war that will include a nuclear attack in Iran. Fucking Nukes??? and I'm out of place?? I want the Democrats to rage against this evil machine and not comply. I say that I am more democrat that the dems that willfully submit to the whims of the shrub. I'm willing to fight and die for my beliefs and will not roll over for the current admin or AIPAC

[MindBoggles]

51. Don't pay them any mind

If people can't be bothered to come up with a better response than a schoolyard taunt, their dogmatic opinions don't warrant your time and worry.

This reminds me very much of the charge against all liberals that we're the ones who are "anti-American" - even though we are in fact more appreciative of and willing to fight for the democratic values this nation was founded upon. If it's anti-American to be for free speech, freedom of (and from) religion, peace, etc., then I am proudly anti-American. And if it's anti-Democratic to be pissed off about the wholesale auction of the party to corporate interests, warmongering, etc., then I am also proudly anti-Democrat.

[brentspeak]

77. What are you doing on this site?

[itsmesgd]

81. thanks

[ccpup]

68. I can understand your impatience

and disappointment. But I also suspect that something much bigger is on the table if Pelosi is taking something off. Perhaps the resignation of Gonzales is in the offing? I don't know, but I do know I'd trust a vocal Democratic Majority looking over Bush's shoulder than a rubber-stamp Republican House and Senate.

If Germany looks good to you, I wish you luck. But they have their own HUGE problems their dealing with -- surprising resurgence of the Nazi Party and the unchecked violence of skin head groups against minorities and tourists -- and, as an American, you may find yourself surprisingly unwelcome and truly in the minority.

I wish you luck whatever you choose.

[lastliberalintexas]

90. Did you seriously just write that?

"But I also suspect that something much bigger is on the table if Pelosi is taking something off. Perhaps the resignation of Gonzales is in the offing?"

Wtf? The resignation of an administration member in exchange for starting WWIII? Yep, sounds like a fair trade to me. :eyes:

Your faith in the party might be admirable, and hopefully you are right in hoping that something bigger is in the making. But it damn well better be more than the mere resignation of an AG.

[ccpup]

126. yeah, I did just write that.

and, although I appreciate your freedom to have -- and share -- your opinion, I also have the right to tell your condescending a** to shut the f*ck up. I was thinking off the cuff, trying to find a reason for the decision, but, with self-proclaimed watch dogs around, that's getting more and more difficult to do on DU.

[brentspeak]

138. s/del

[lastliberalintexas]

145. Okay

I'm glad to know that was an off the cuff remark, because I couldn't imagine any sane person being happy for such an exchange.

[ccpup]

158. No problem.

I was just trying to think of something that could have prompted the Dems to make this decision. No harm done.

[demrabble]

92. You Have Given Up

Your anger at the fact that the elected Democrats aren't doing exactly what YOU want them to has caused you to GIVE UP.

MY anger at the fact that the elected Democrats aren't doing exactly what I want is causing me to campaign for change within the Democratic Party.

YOU choose to run away to Europe.

I choose to stay and fight.

You have chosen to be out of place here.

[Ioo]

102. Everything is so Black or White to Dems, it is what keeps us down.

So many Dems are ALL or NOTHING. this comment is case in point. "You are 100% with me, or you can go to hell!!! 88.7% SCREW YOU!!!! 99.3 FORGET IT..."

We should make out tent more open to other.... the OP has a real point...

[Morgana LaFey]

129. Well, the truth of the matter is

they poster and Admin here are the ones who get to make that determination. YOU don't.

You CAN, however, weigh in, as you have. And reap the responses, as you're doing.

See how it works?

But you're wasting YOUR time being all upset about it.

[demrabble]

141. Or, For Goodness Sake!

OF COURSE I know that I am not the one who gets to determine who is welcome here and who isn't.

And I also think I am correct when I say that I am the one who gets to determine whether I am "wating my time" getting upset about something another poster has posted.

I won't tell you if you are wasting your time, and I'd appreciate it very much if you will refrain from lecturing me about the proper use of my time.

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[demrabble]

110. Green Goddess In A Bottle, NO!

Please.

I am not trying to suppress dissent at all.

I DISSENT from what the elected Democrats are doing.

But I do so as a DEMOCRAT -- NOT as someone who has "given up" -- NOT as someone who says "the Democratic Party is dead to me" -- and NOT as someone who says, "Because things aren't going my way, I'm going to Europe".

IF you are bright enough to be a Democrat, then you ought to be bright enough to see the difference.

[Liberal Dose]

140. The OP is upset and frustrated right now. IF you are humane enough to be an understanding individual

then you ought to be humane enough to see that. :hi:

[demrabble]

143. Poor Thing!

The OP posts a very inflammatory post to begin a thread.

People object to the contents of the OP's post.

This upsets the OP.

This also frustrates the OP.

Poor OP.

Maybe we should all just do a big group hug.

Except that many of us are Democrats.

And the Democratic Party is "DEAD" to the OP.

It would probably upset the OP to have all of us DEAD people hugging him.

Poor, poor OP.

[Liberal Dose]

147. I think you're wrong and you just don't get it. Poor poor you. I'd give you a hug, too but you're

just too mean. I'll just wave from a distance :hi:

[demrabble]

149. Am I Dead To You?

Oh dear.

Someone has said that I am "mean" -- actually, "too mean".

And that same person said that I "just don't get it".

Oh, my.

And that same person has said that I cannot have a hug -- because I am "too mean".

I guess I just must be dead to that person.

Whatever shall I do?

I think I shall survive -- somehow.

[Madspirit]

150. The OP is upset and frustrated right now. IF you are humane enough to be an understanding individual

Thank-you! Jeez...what has this become over here, a little nazi regime? The OP was stating valid frustration. A compassionate person should be able to see that. ...and they are welcome here.
Lee

[demrabble]

156. I Swoon!

OMG.

Someone has suggested that I am a part of a little nazi regime here -- and that I am not a compassionate person!

All because I noted that there are some of us who disagree with what the elected Democrats are doing, but who, instead of giving up and fleeing to Europe, are going to stay and fight the good fight.

These charges of being a person lacking in compassion and of being part of a little nazi regime are causing me to swoon!

But I think I will, somehow, survive.

[Madspirit]

162. Nope

It's for telling the person they don't belong here.
Lee

[demrabble]

167. Take Those Words Out of My Mouth!

I'll thank you to take those words out of my mouth!

If you insist upon putting words INTO my mouth, then I insist that you take them out!

Right NOW!

[Liberal Dose]

166. Apparantly, Bush being given permission to invade Iran any old time he wants for whatever reason is

A-OK with A LOT of posters here. I'm certainly not okay with it, and can't figure out how anyone else can defend it.
:hi:

[demrabble]

168. Gold Medal Winnner Here!

Even though NO ONE here is defending Bush being given permission to invade Iran, this poster has JUMPED to a startling conclusion:

"Apparantly, Bush being given permission to invade Iran any old time he wants for whatever reason is A-OK with A LOT of posters here."

If there were an Olympic Competition for JUMPING TO UNWARRANTED CONCLUSIONS, we'd have our Gold Medal Winner HERE!

[brentspeak]

115. Would quoting the rules be "Rovian" too?

Who We Are: Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office.

[Liberal Dose]

133. How exactly is the OP violating the rules? Is it against the rules to be frustrated with the

Democratic Party? Show me a rule stating that it is not okay to vent. Sheesh!

[BayCityProgressive]

131. I agree

with the original post. Democrats are next to useless.

[William769]

2. See ya, wouldn't want to be ya.

[itsmesgd]

21. are you proud of their defeatist attitude?

Are you happy that they will not pass, or fight for binding resolutions?

I wish that it were different, but I am being slapped with reality more and more.

I wish that Al Gore would run and convince me and others that there is hope for change.

[Marrah_G]

40. Defeatist would be someone running away

to some European country where they are convinced they will find the utopia they are unwilling to fight for here.

[BuyingThyme]

3. Blame Pelosi.

[JNelson6563]

4. We're doomed now

Buh bye now.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

5. Have fun in general ignorance and irrelevance.

You are clearly one of the people Mr. Obey was talking about last week.

[brentspeak]

6. If I wanted to read posts advocating not voting for Democrats, I'd register for Freerepublic.com

Have you thought about doing that?

[bryant69]

7. Good luck in your future endevors

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[jail_them]

You're Right

It's time to start jailing the old ones and getting some new ones. What they have allowed is downright criminal.

[brentspeak]

10. Thank you for your "concern"

[Laurab]

108. You're talking about the republicans, right?

Since Democrats were in the minority up until 2 months ago, and all three branches were controlled by the republics. I surely hope you don't think the DEMS should be jailed?

[rockymountaindem]

8. People assume that this is *only* because of AIPAC lobbying

I'm not saying that AIPAC is not a factor, but blaming this exclusively on them and not, oh, I don't know, Republican and Blue Dog opposition to such a plan, the lobbying of Iranian exile groups etc. seems a little narrow to me.

[cmd]

9. Have fun on the other side.

I'm stick with the Dems.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

11. If Dems don't end this war soon....or if they're only waiting to end

the war so the timing is prior to an election.....They'll be dead to me too.

[brentspeak]

Your "concern" is duly noted

[Dawgs]

36. How do you expect them to end this war?

You do realize that they are BARELY a majority.

[Tesha]

48. Strangely enough, it takes a *MAJORITY* to fund the war.

> How do you expect them to end this war?
> You do realize that they are BARELY a majority.

Strangely enough, it takes a *MAJORITY* to fund the war.

If the Democrats wanted the war ended, it would end the
very next time an appropriations bill was needed because
there wouldn't be the needed majorityto pass the funding
bill.

They obviously don't think it's "political" to end the
war.

Tesha

[Dawgs]

67. Uh, do they have enough votes in the Senate?

Think about it, you might realize something.

[Tesha]

84. Actually, if *YOU* think about it, *YOU* might realize something.

> Uh, do they have enough votes in the Senate?
> Think about it, you might realize something.

Actually, if *YOU* think about it, *YOU* might realize something.

Here are three hints:

1. Appropriations bills originate in the House

2. They actually need to be voted "yes" to pass.

3. With control of even a one-vote majority of the voters,
you can assure a "no" vote on a bill.

Tesha

[lastliberalintexas]

97. Unfortunately far too few

understand exactly how Congress works. That was one of the reasons that Reagan and his group got away with Iran Contra- it was far too complicated for Joe Sicpack to understand why it was a bad thing for an executive to violate a spending prohibition which had been passed by Congress.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

53. Stop the funding...expose the truth about how the money doesn't go to the troops anyway.

Show the world that we don't support Bush/Cheney and that we want to impeach the whole lot of them. Chuck Schulmer was on TV the other day saying Bush didn't do anything impeachable.

We are the majority and we have the power.

There are republicans who would be willing to cross over to end the war. The problem is that we have too many corporate dems... we have to take back our party from the likes of the DLC.

It sickens me when I hear dems will end the war by the fall of '08. Why can we end it then and not now?

[havocmom]

12. after reading many posts...

not surprised :boring:

Hasta la vista...

[Richard Steele]

13. Obviously, our only rational option is to abandon all hope, and stop working to make things better.

:sarcasm:

[Fresh_Start]

14. That worked so well in 2000 and 2004 elections, didn't it?

I'm not saying that the people that protest voted in those elections meant to empower the GOP neocons, but thats exactly what their protest votes accomplished.

[EFerrari]

39. Well, no. 2000 was handled by the Supreme Court and 2004

was stolen. Protest votes had nothing to do with it.

[Fresh_Start]

104. without naderite vote in 2000, it would never have gone to SC

without low voting rate for dem-leaning voters in general, the GOP would never have gotten into power to begin with.

Disillusionment with the political process is a significant reason for non-voting
"no candidate speaks for me",
"they're discussing issues are meaningless to my life",
don't want to participate in a corrupt political process,
lobbying and campaign financing make us politically powerless
70 percent of young Americans don't vote because they're turned off by politics
they're all crooks so what difference does it make

[MindBoggles]

130. without Gore fucking up his campaign by not speaking truth to power, it would never have gone to SC

nt

[katsy]

139. It could have been the buchanan votes, not Nader votes.

http://arts.bev.net/roperldavid/politics/FL2000.htm

http://cagreens.org/alameda/city/0803myth/myth.html

[corkhead]

You should consider helping take back the Democratic party from the corporatists

Why not run for office at the local level, or find some way to help shape the direction of the party instead of sit back and complain about it.
If you aren't willing to help be part of the solution, you are part of the problem imho.

peace

[bigtree]

15. the emergence of the 'Dave' party should be interesting

first on the Dave party agenda: an endless argument on Iran which will doom the Iraq withdrawal effort to failure if included in the compromise legislation. But dooming the Iraq bill to failure, somehow, won't be viewed by the Dave party constituency as bending over for Bush, even though it will effectively allow him to continue his occupation with impunity.

[maddezmom]

16. okay

:hi:

[Tormenta]

17. I totally agree with you.

But I haven't given up. Have you mailed your thoughts to your reps?

I have no problem with being anti-AIPAC, though.

[tanyev]

19. Because they haven't fixed everything in 2 months?

I'm willing to give them more time and see what happens.

[HereSince1628]

20. Um, guys, Part of being UNDERGROUND is being non-mainstream

Being pissed with the DCDems is pretty standard fare around here.

We don't have to simply follow the DCDems or agree with them. And when I joined the board in the way-back it was for Democrats & Other Progressives.

The Progressive movement inside the Democratic Party certainly disagrees with most of what the DLC is trying to sell.

There's no real reason to run someone off because they are disgusted with the DCDems who claim because they are elected they are the party. Accountability to the base is still part of the political game.

It's still OK to be disappointed in elected Dems.

[Beelzebud]

23. Some would be happy if we just blindly followed.

[HereSince1628]

37. Yes, lest we forget, Only DEAD fish always seem to swim with the current.

And after 3 days no one wants to be around a dead fish.

[brentspeak]

28. It's "ok" to advocate abandoning the Democrats b/c the world hasn't been saved in two months????????

Uh, yeah.

[HereSince1628]

46. Are you sure that is what the OP wrote? I'm not.

I'll have to go back and read it again more carefully. The part that struck me was that there is a need to do a purge of what I'd call weak kneed invertebrates.

[lastliberalintexas]

111. Elementary school lawsuit

If that's what you got from the OP, you really should sue your school for its failure to teach you reading comprehension.

[brentspeak]

127. An "elementary school lawsuit"? What's that?

Something you just made up?

This is what I "got" from the OP:

"The democratic party has completely folded and written off this year, the next war, and their appeasement of Bush is more than shameful. I cant believe that they are giving Bush carte blanche to do whatever he wants."

His evidence? Nancy Pelosi is scheduled to speak in front of AIPAC. That's his evidence.

I understand the OP's motivation for posting that misleading little bit of logical fallacy, but what's your excuse?

[lastliberalintexas]

144. A snide remark, that's what

The OP didn't mention that Pelosi was to speak before AIPAC that I remember, so I'll re-read it and see if that's there. However, I do plainly recall this being noted:

Democrats back off on effort to limit Bush's Iran options
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2764897


Apparently some of the posters on this thread are either unaware of the latest crawfish by our party or else just don't care. But what I (and seemingly many others) understood from the OP was that s/he was upset about the Dems lessening the anti-Iran war pressure on this administration. S/he didn't say that we should be living in the Walgreens town of Perfect by now, but s/he did note that the Dems are continuing their patterns from minority status- raise a little hell, get some media attention, then cave to Bush's wishes anyway. A perfectly legitimate criticism of our party, unless of course one is a blind party loyalist more interested in "winning" than actually supporting the ideals of the party. (though I disagree with her/his apparent move to leave the party)

But you're free to believe that this rant was entirely based on Pelosi speaking before a pro-war group and the fact that we're not living in Perfect if you wish. :shrug:

[itsmesgd]

146. thanks for understanding. I'm a "he" btw

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[itsmesgd]

86. thanks, this is not the DLC webpage, but "underground"

[brentspeak]

93. You're still here?

[itsmesgd]

109. I defend my opinion. I dont drop bombs then run away

[Name removed]

118. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[itsmesgd]

not a troll

just tired of defending the dems who roll over for Bushco at every turn

[Name removed]

155. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[itsmesgd]

163. I'm a nutcase now, ok

[Aviation Pro]

22. I respectfully disagree....

...the Democratic party has been back in power all of two months. I'm sure as they were organizing their 50-state strategy they were also concurrently planning a systematic effort to expose the criminal cabal that is the Bush administration without allowing the Republican-Conservative party any room to break the fickle and tenuous thread to the Democratic majority by using the "soft on national security" meme. Yes, it tears me to pieces that the soldiers that I trained are still in harms way, but the complexity of the situation requires care in order to extricate from their hell.

[mmonk]

24. Here you go.

You may need one of these.

[itsmesgd]

32. thanks

[RandomKoolzip]

25. Oh, I'll go tell the Democratic Party. I'm sure they'll be devastated.

:eyes:

[huskerlaw]

26. Tis far better than complain

than to actually do anything about it, right?

This complaint is tired. Don't like who's running your party? Work to elect someone else.

Oh, but...that's work. Complaining is so much easier.

:hi:

[itsmesgd]

49. I worked to elect people that said that they would fight for us

I volunteered for people who promised that they would make a change and not people who would roll over for AIPAC and Bushco. They changed, not me.

[lukasahero]

112. Who, specifically, did you work for and what, specifically, did they promise you?

Perhaps, if this is true, you should take your concern to the person for whom you volunteered? That would be productive. That would be the democratic process.

[huskerlaw]

137. Exactly.

Rather than writing off the entire party, holding your elected officials accountable seems like a better tactic. Particularly if you volunteered for them.

[Sapphire Blue]

55. Just in case anyone wants to DO something...

"Shall we have phones implanted, to make it easier?: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x401190

[Just-plain-Kathy]

95. Maybe people work and complain...how do you know?

Complaining in a place where dems gather does help to change things.

It's shameful when you see people belittled when they go against the flow.

[huskerlaw]

134. I'm not belittling anyone

but "The Democratic Party is DEAD to me" is a little melodramatic, don't you think?

Meanwhile, I wish the person good luck finding a political group that represents his/her views more effectively.

Complaining is fine, but not when you then turn and walk away. How is that at all constructive?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

29. Politicians indulging in "politics as usual". Nothing new.

[Sequoia]

30. Let Israel take care of itself.

I guess we have to make sure it's okay with them first.

[Geek_Girl]

31. I know how you feel but look how things are unraveling for the Bush admin

I'm disappointed too. But look at how quickly things are unraveling for the untouchables. First Libby, now Gonzales and his mess. I'd stick around for a little while longer and see how things play out.

[meganmonkey]

33. Hi Dave

I just want you to know that you speak for many here but given the purpose and rules of this site, very few will speak up in your thread.

It really is 'later than we think' and the shit keeps getting deeper and deeper.

Good luck to you in finding new avenues for change. One thing I know for sure is that 'party-over-principle' is not the way.

Solidarity.

[brentspeak]

35. Yes, it is true that many here aren't actually Democrats, and would like to cause division

They don't want to "speak up" for obvious reasons.

[Cameron27]

38. I think you might be right about that.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

43. Here's what your avatar had to say about "party loyalty".

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." --Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.

But, he was probably a freeper, right?

[brentspeak]

Thomas Jefferson would have laughed at you

for suggesting that a site that calls itself "Democraticunderground" is obliged somehow to allow blatantly counter-productive and possibly deliberately underminding postings that run against the stated rules of the website. Nice try, though.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

69. I think you underestimate Thomas Jefferson's integrity.

But, you might try reading his statements again and try to fathom what he said.

[EFerrari]

52. And then there are those of us who aren't Democrats and speak up

all time time.

Slamming people who are obviously not trolls doesn't seem to be to me a productive way to deal with these threads. If they get of of hand, they get locked. If they manage not to, they're an opportunity to talk in a constructive way about being a Democrat or working with Democrats. :shrug:

[ryanmuegge]

34. Hate to say it, but I saw it coming...

I didn't think much would change. In all fairness, though, we don't have enough of a majority to really do much. Really, the Senate is a tie if you're honest with yourself and count Lieberman as a Republican. We need tenacious, liberal Democrats, rather than the elephants in donkey clothing that we have now. We need more guys like Bernie Sanders in the Senate.

[MindBoggles]

42. I find the typical responses to this post shocking/amusing/sad

I have been a lurker for a LONG time, and every time someone posts something like this, the majority of responders say juvenile things like "see ya, wouldn't wanna be ya" without bothering to discuss or even refute the OP.

This attitude is shockingly similar to the RWers DUers love to hate. "If you're not with us, you're against us."

This OP raises some - lamentably - valid points.

To the people who say things like, "How did that work out in 2000 and 2004 for ya?", I could ask the same thing. You voted for - and, perhaps canvassed, campaigned, and donated! - Democratic candidates. Democratic candidates did, in fact, make significant gains in 2006. Rejoicing all around. But in light of the behavoir of Pelosi and the others, such as the information referred to in this OP - how's that working out for you? Keep working for the Dems if you want; but don't be so fundamentalist and delusional. The Democratic partly is largely (I am thinking specifically of DLCers, here, but, others, too) owned by the corporatocracy.

Putting your fingers in your ears and chanting "Nah-nah-nah-nah" at someone who is really on your side is naive, shortsighted, and - ultimately - suicidal.

[katsy]

50. Excellent post.

I agree with you.

[demrabble]

58. Look At Possible Alternatives

Some of us prefer to live in the REAL WORLD -- and to deal with the ACTUAL alternatives.

No, I am not happy with what the elected Democrats are doing now.

I wish they would fight harded to end the war.

But do I regret voting for Democrats in 2006?

NOT FOR A MINUTE.

Because the alternative -- a REPUBLICAN HOUSE and a REPUBLICAN SENATE -- would be far worse than what we have now.

And, I could act on my displeasure by behaving like a child and saying, "Well, since the Democrats are doing exactly what I want, I am leaving the country".

Or, I could take a more mature approach and say, "Change begins with people like me, and I'm sticking around to fight and to change the party and this country".

Choosing to leave seems to me to be immature and really self-centered.

[itsmesgd]

71. The "I'm leaving" was probably a bit much

I will stay because I am too dumb to leave. I am ready to fight as an "insurgent" when my time comes. I have volunteered for movements that are far greater than myself. These movements keep me here in the states fighting for my people. I want to fight and make a difference, but fighting for dems feels like wasted action. I will fight along side those and for those that will make a difference and stand up for what they believe.

[MindBoggles]

76. Criticizing Democrats and their INCREDIBLY bad moves (as above) does not equal

"cutting and running" from the fight for this country.

And, what did the American revolutionaries do in their day? Did they just keep sending their taxes to King George because there wasn't a better alternative? NO! They made their own alternative reality. And - at least until recently - we're all living in it.

[demrabble]

99. Criticizng and Saying that the Democratic Party is DEAD are NOT the Same

Criticizing the elected Democrats is NOT the same thing as saying that the Democratic Party is dead to someone.

Many of us criticize the Democratic Party -- but we do so as DEMOCRATS -- NOT as people who have simply given up and say "Oh, the Democratic Party is dead to me, so I am moving to Europe".

[MindBoggles]

117. He is just saying that because of the party policy - which is, apparently, to roll over

that he feels he is no longer represented by said party. Logical and reasonable enough to me.

[demrabble]

128. No, He Is Saying MORE THAN THAT

No, he is saying much more than that.

I disagree with what many of the elected Democrats are doing.

But you do not see me delcaring that I am giving up on the Democratic Party.

You do not see me declaring that I am off to Europe because the elected Democrats are not doing things my way.

You do not, in short, see me declaring that the Democratic Party is DEAD to me.

To me, the Democratic Party is VERY MUCH ALIVE -- with people like Cindy Sheehan and others who are COMMITTED to CHANGING the party to be truly the party that is anti-war and pro-people.

Abandonning the party (and the country) does NOT accomplish that - it only give victory to those who are regressive and accpeting of the status quo.

The Democratic Party WILL BECOME DEAD if progressive anti-war people leave it.

[HereSince1628]

152. Even Cindy Sheehan has protested in front of the Dems

http://wpherald.com/articles/2886/1/Cindy-Sheehan-protests-the-Democrats/Breaks-up-press-conference.html

I do think the Democratic party is alive. It's not as aggressive or progressive as I'd like. And I've had moments where I wondered what they were giving back to me for my canvassing efforts in hostile Republican precincts.

I think many of us have had our moments when disappointment overwhelms us.

[itsmesgd]

60. thanks for reading and not name calling

I am not a defeatist, but I feel like I'm in the Alamo

[HereSince1628]

79. Hang in there, this too will pass. Unlike the Alamo no one has real bullets

Remember the Alamo! Remember Goliad! And, remember during both of those seiges, and their attendant post battle massacres, the Texican gov't over at Washington on the Brazos wasn't exactly in agreement over the way the hostilities should be conducted either.

[Cameron27]

72. Some of us have been

working like hell to finally get a majority Democratic Congress elected, so it's pretty hard to pat someone on the back for saying the party is dead to them after they've been in office less than 3 months.

[MindBoggles]

98. Some of us have been

working like hell to really fundamentally change things and cannot morally equivocate on issues of nuclear attack.

[Cameron27]

125. Try the link in my sig line...

I've been supporting a Democrat who's been warning about a possible invasion of Iran for a long time. I'm sending out petitions, writing letters to both the Whitehouse (for all the good that's done) and to members of Congress.

We've got a bare minimum majority right now, investigations are finally being held, there's movement to right wrongs that have been shoved down our throats for a decade. Am I satisfied? No Am I giving up? Hell no.

[brentspeak]

82. "This OP raises some - lamentably - valid points."

"Valid points" which you can't even cite.

[MindBoggles]

sigh

He already said them.

Namely, that the new Democratic majority are still cow-towing to the war machine by refusing to strip W of his kingly ability to wage war without explicit approval by Congress.

D'oh.

[brentspeak]

114. You sure have the art of the Big Lie down well. "Refusing to strip W..."

If I was one of the more gullible readers, I also might not notice the blatant untruthiness of your claim. (Hint: Congress can't do a whole hell of a lot to prevent a President from declaring war when war hasn't actually been officially declared in the first place.)

[MindBoggles]

121. "Impeachment is off the table"

That kinda sums it up.

Big Lie? Sheesh. What is this, 1933? I have the right, as an American, to criticize whomever I want. Calling out Dems on their cowardice (or is it collusion?) is hardly tantamount to the Orwellian thought policing going on in this thread.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

161. Let's see, they can refuse to fund the war, they can impeach Bush and Cheney...

They are not powerless, even though they would like people to think they are.

Their corporate contributors don't want them to rock the boat, and so they're not.

All the whining about procedural matters is bullshit. When the Republicans won their majority, did you see them namby-pambying around? They launched right into trying to pass their Contract on America, even though they KNEW that much of it would fail to pass or be vetoed. Their aggressiveness and unity actually worked for them for 12 years.

[paulk]

136. well, this may seem pretty basic, but....

when someone says they've given up on the Democratic Party - which still remains the only viable alternative to the Republican Party - then the phrase, "If you're not with us, you're against us." is pretty damn applicable.

And I really have to question whether someone who is not working for the Democrats is on my side.

Believing that is what I would call naive...

[liberal hypnotist]

44. Welcome Free Speech Democrats!

Question Authority! It is time that we all pull our heads out of the sand and start asking the tough questions. Who are our elected officials serving? Insurance Companies, Credit Card Companies, Big Oil, The Military Complex? It is a crumbling society that does not allow dissent. It is a crumbling member of society who will not keep civil disobedience on the table.

I may disagree or agree with you but speak freely or forever give up your liberty.

[sinkingfeeling]

62. I think one of the prime masters is Israel. I'll stand with Jimmy Carter on that one.

Every politican in the country except Carter is afraid to 'offend' Israel.

[dogday]

47. Blind Faith in Bad Leaders is Not Patriotism

Rocky Anderson said this in August 2006 and it still holds true today.

[demrabble]

But NOT Fighting Against Bad Leaders is Cowardice

Not sticking around to fight for what you believe in -- to try to change the leadership -- is just plain self-centered cowardice.

[dogday]

74. Seems a shame we have to fight our own leaders

does it not? Seems a shame our wishes, the people's needs, are not being looked after, does it not?

[demrabble]

116. Of Course it is a Shame

Of course it is a shame that we have to fight for our beliefs in order to have them prevail.

But if we don't -- if we just give up and move away -- then we accept our defeat.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

54. Didn't you sign the Loyalty Oath???

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789. ME 7:300

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." --Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.

[brentspeak]

91. Hey chuckles, maybe you didn't catch the name of this website:

"Democraticunderground". As in: "Who We Are: Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office."

There are two things apparent from this thread:

1) The OP does not support Democratic candidates for political office.

2) You have contempt for political parties. And being that the Democratic party is, in fact, a "party", you are definitely in the wrong place, don't you think?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

96. No.

Think again.

[helderheid]

56. May I suggest...

www.pdamerica.org

[John Q. Citizen]

57. it's not just AIPAC, it's also the Saudis.

[Dawgs]

59. Two months with a small majority and you're quitting.

Good bye!!

[itsmesgd]

75. I am disconnecting myself from a party that is bending over for AIPAC and Bush

[Perky]

61. see ya

[cassiepriam]

63. I am beginning to think that sadly you are correct :(

When are the dems going to get some B*lls???

[brentspeak]

70. I suggest reading the news.

The Democrats are currently running hearings and investigations on all kinds of matters, and even calling for Gonzalez to resign.

[cassiepriam]

94. Time will tell if they actually going to do something.

As we speak, men, women and children are being murdered, raped and tortured in Iraq.

And the dems drag their feet.

[brentspeak]

64. Are the moderators all on lunch break?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

73. You're confusing the moderators with the Thought Police.

[BuyingThyme]

80. Yours is the most revealing post of all.

Your blind support cannot be backed with words, thus words shall be taken off the table.

[thethinker]

65. Well

don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

There are many Democrats in congress that are trying hard to do something to stop this war. The problem is Pelosi is being blocked by some well organized democratic idiots that are pro-war. It is well past time to do something about them. It is also well past time to see who is taking money from AIPAC and other groups that no one should be taking money from or be beholden to. I agree with you that the house and senate need a good cleaning.

As long as there is one democrat left standing and fighting against this madness, they will have my support. I can remember back when this war started and no one spoke out against it. Now it is socially acceptable to be against the war. We have made progress. We just need to make more progress. Now is not the time to give up. The fight is just getting started. And in the end, I know we will win. The problem is we may not have much of country left when this is over.

[leftofthedial]

66. godddamned democrats are barely better than repukes

which is their plan.

[demrabble]

103. So You'd Be Just as Happy if the 2006 Elections Had Been Different?

So I guess that means that you would have been just as happy now if the 2006 elections had come out differently?

And you think it may no difference that the Rethugs "won" the White House in 2000 and 2004?

[leftofthedial]

157. nope. things are barely better

can't you read?

[demrabble]

160. I Dont Reed to Gud

I sure dont reed to gud.

caus it sure looked to me lik you wuz sayin that it didnt make no dffenance which party won.

I gott ta go clean me sum possums now.

goin hav me some possum stu.

[Cameron27]

171. I think I want you for my new best friend

:rofl:

[lazer47]

78. Me thinks he

doth protest to much,,, who you gonna back now? the Repugs or somebody else who has even less sayso?

[DancingBear]

83. Thank you Dave

There are many of here who at one time shared the view that the Democratic Party was indeed the vessel for change. We worked, we volunteered, we gave money, we made phone calls - we played the game.

Many now see the truth, but many more can not bear to let the false idol go, so they condemn you with silly catch phrases and call your "credentials" into question for not toeing the line and falling for the P.T. Barnum ruse yet again.

I commend you for your views, and to me (and countless others) you are the true progressive, for you realize the Three Card Monty game that is happening right before your eyes.

Today's Democratic Party, despite getting the MOTHER of all instruction lists last November, can not and will not remove itself from the teat of corporate milk and actually attempt to remake itself as a true alternative to the criminal behavior that surrounds it. It sits afraid of its own shadow, and its cowardice will be its demise.

They will bend over for AIPAC, just like they will bend over for K Street and every other group that puts pressure on them.

Not so long ago, I, too, would have attacked you.

Today, however, I know better.

[grassfed]

120. in agreement with Dancingbear

and Dave
better to accept it than live a lie

[EFerrari]

85. Hi there, Dave. My Code Pink friends are camped out in front of

Pelosi's house. They're Democrats and Indies and Greens and what else I don't know. :)

It's not easy to anchor the Left these days. But, the election has made it a little easier.

You're right that simply electing Democrats isn't enough. But, when has it ever been enough to elect anybody? If you're frustrated, well, that happens to most of us (when it isn't a constant condition, lol).

[PATRICK]

87. The majority changed. Party

makeup became more progressive with hard hitting signals to the GOP enabling wing. But...

As noted the chief benefits of GOP skulduggery was in keeping at least a dozen or two new more progressive candidates out. In candidate selection it had already been noted that caution veered to the very inaction type Representatives the leadership establishment wanted for its own sake- as well as supposedly being better to win. The progressives created a stronger perception for change that ironically fueled a bigger victory but a fatter establishment weaned on decades of leadership and progressive retreat. The ones trumpeting bi-partisanship and caution feel no such qualms about stiffing the ones who got them their recent return to power. Typical of the GOP thugs who have in a way become their modern role models.

Real progressives, fresh faces, non-pro non careerist are not yet arrived, in charge or in a position to throttle anyone. We knew this before a vote wa cast in 2006. And that impeachment, muscular opposition to Bush and anything more than sitting fearfully on the gains was going to be uphill by the party's own numbers and the "leadership" as with Joe L. is determined to play the patsy but puzzled at what was as predictable as the Iraq quagmire: new responsibility brings new expectations. Namely, get out of Iraq and hold Bush accountable. Oh yes and certainly stop another murderously criminal fiasco in Iran.

This was known during the primary season and in fact the seats lost due to GOP slime tactics were ones that could have made a difference- but not guaranteed. The party has a long, scary way to go to dump the losers, GOP lite, corporate cannibal alliance, hostile press fawning to make it the entity that COULD be expected to deal with the likes of Bush/Cheney and the crisis(es) at hand. If it were not for the crises that are being soft-balled in the public's perception there might be a fiercer fight for the democratization of the party itself. Maybe certain democrats like being held unaccountable hostages to gridlock(at least) and a hated tyrant. Irony costs lives I suppose.

The thing is though that people rarely change in the way some expectations presumed they would. Pols have been out of touch for many years on what people actually, simply want or need and as a self protective bi-partite clique don't feel the need to change unless it is within the private dealings of the club. It took decades of theft and deception, corruption and failure to get us this sorry state. The cure did not come overnight because the will of the people has simply not been allowed to burrow upward into candidate selection and election in the majority needed to reverse the tyranny of the few.

So when the newbies caucus and TRY to stir up the required action the media immediate result means "party disunity", "ineffectiveness". And we should start all over again with what? Third parties already infiltrated by GOP money or very easily beaten down by the establishment? Anarchy when the thugs have the killers and the guns and a privatized army of brutalized mercenaries.

The response is to encourage and kick the donkey, but get it moving, not shoot the d%^$ed thing. The long term is no satisfaction now. This longer war will be grim before hope is even restored. And then we have the REAL work of humanity to survive and thrive without butchery and barbarism and mass extinctions. And in no way accept the need to stoically praise this shame or accept the labels of the corporate lapdogs.

If the media doesn't like this Democratic Congress wait until the next one and the next and the next. And maybe a new party along the way and another sane one and another until the MSM itself is morphed into history book hell.

The people have a foothold in the democratic Party and in its very platform. We push. It moves. And as disappointing as that effort is, that's the only thing that is working to save us. We are still on the brink, pushing back. No more illusion that a Dem President or Congress will become some ideal to match the ugly abyss of the ruling GOP. So we can sleep and ignore once more. This is a desert to cross and who can expect human beings not to grumble and blame, not to risk their own survival in that weakness?
We cannot allow ourselves to become angrily, despairingly divided or to be "lead" to our destruction by anyone. That is what the Bush beasts want- and need. And there is the ample focus for just anger.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

88. I completely understand your frustration.

I have been a Democrat since I first voted in 1980. I am a true believer who feels that our values are intrinsically better, and that we should be better than the other side.

And when I see Democrats fail to live up to that and, worse, when I see too many of them actively collaborate with the the powers that would hurt my country and it's people, I wanna kick their damned asses for the fools/cowards/traitors they are.

The only answer to the solution is for an informed public to demand more/better of their representatives. We need more Waxmans, Wellstones, Kucinichs, Feingolds, Waters -- people who are fearless, and more interested in serving the people than in their own political careers. We also have to cultivate the next generation of politicians, through supporting groups like Wellstone Action, where they use Camp Wellstone to train young people for political activism.

The fight against Evil -- whether it be coming from the GOP or in the Democratic Party itself -- will be an ongoing battle we all ust fight for the rest of our lives.

[alcibiades_mystery]

100. Uh oh

[TreasonousBastard]

101. Rant on, but...

in this imperfect world putting faith in politicians, or anyone else, to act exactly as we think they should and get the results we expect is faith sadly misplaced.

I see the past too months as far from perfect, but an incredible change in the mood of Congress and the country as a whole.

There is a light at the end of the tunnel, and where there is light, there is hope. Not despair.

[peacetalksforall]

105. What you're saying about Iran has me tearing my hair - I didn't know - and

I am furious. Out of my mind furious. Since I didn't know, I'm going to go learn.

But about leaving - I suggest you break things down in to pieces.

I despise the Dems who bend as much as you do.
Ralph Nader is right (I give him that).
But it's not all of them.
To leave is to leave the good ones.
At the moment, I believer there are good ones.

If true about Iran - I would be screaming.
Imo - Pres Clinton should be yelling about the Iran threat and the influence of the Israel leaders in our business and what we have promised them. And I deeply resent the total direction we have taken to let rabid Israel first employees in the top level of our government.

I defend Pres Carter - and wish he could say more and often.

Stay for the good ones and their good fight for we (like you) who see this for what it is - a despicable act against our familes and all those people who are going to die if we don't stop this President.

Death, dismemberment, disease, and mental disorders everywhere - if people can't project out about what it's going to take to handle just these 50-60,ooo 'wounded' soldiers that we have after four years, then they are hopeless.

If true - I have no respect for Pelosi and any other supporters of this move.

Again - stay to help the good ones. Stay to fight the enemies in the party. They are our only hope even though they may come out any day and be truthful about there manuevers and positions.

We're not sure if we have already been screwed completely.

[dogday]

106. The Blue Dogs and the New Dems sold us out on the Bankruptcy Bill.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/699



Things like this are not helping the people one bit, but it is being backed by Democrats....

[manic expression]

107. Your feelings are understandable

However, the fact is that the Democrats were ALWAYS a bourgeois party. They never cared about the interests of the vast majority of the people, because their interests are firmly set in the interests of the rich and powerful.

The system we live in is a bourgeois system, it is intricately tied to capitalism and the rule of the bourgeoisie. The trust you had in that system is now shown to be betrayed, as it always was. It is unfortunate and I know what it feels like, but there is a better way.

We need to reject this system of the bourgeoisie, a system which caters only to the ruling class and leaves all others out to dry. What we NEED to do is overthrow this travesty and replace it with a government that has the interests of the people at heart.

Don't trust a party that doesn't care about you, trust groups which promote a future without these putrid ills.

In short, we need to do away with capitalism, because by doing so we will remove the root cause.

[lazer47]

119. If you are going

to quote Ho Chi Mien, you need to learn a little more about the struggle and less of the platitudes

[manic expression]

151. It wasn't a quote

but I do respect Ho Chi Minh for both his ideas and his actions.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

113. Try to change the constituents and the media NOT the party....

WE here are in the minority and until we get more people to agree with us - we'll be getting crumbs.

[Liberal Dose]

122. I'm feeling the same level of frustration, and have been there for quite a while.

Time after time I am horrified by the actions of the Democratic leadership. I am ashamed for them and afraid for us each and every time they bend over for Bush. Every effort that I make towards change is ignored, making me feel as though all my letters, emails, phone calls and donations were and are for nothing. I wish I could convince myself that I'm "fighting the good fight," but the fact remains that I shouldn't have to fight my own team. They should already be on my side. When our representatives are elected because of strong anti-war sentiment, doesn't it make sense to believe that they will end the current conflict and fight against even more war? For crying out loud, we have the majority!
Anyway, your rant is my rant and I sure as hell can't judge or blame you for wanting to get while the getting's good. I fantasize about it myself every time my patience wears thin.

:hug:

[MindBoggles]

123. Methinks that the strong negative reaction is coming out, full teeth, because

deep down, these rah-rah-ers are disappointed, because they know the OP is right.

What will your final straw be?

And with that, I exit this fire.

[brentspeak]

132. Goodbye. The check in the mail for you.

[demrabble]

135. Bye-Bye

You are quite simply wrong in your analysis of why the negative reaction to the OP is so strong and so negative.

[Blue_Roses]

142. Bitch. Moan. Bitch. Moan.

Rinse and repeat. It's been two months. TWO MONTHS since the Dems took Congress. Your expecting six years of botched policies and lies to be eliminated in TWO MONTHS. Sorry, but that's the defeatist attitude at work. I really apologize for the grumpy cynical response, but after the damage Bush and his cronies have done to this country, it's gonna take more than TWO MONTHS to even get things looking to be on the right track, much less actually there. And don't forget, Bush pushes against everything we try to do.

I have faith, because I know karma is a bitch--depending on which side she was toyed with--and Bush toyed with the wrong side. I look at it like a bad perm. It's takes awhile to get the frizz out (or maybe the burned cut out), but once it's gone, look at that nice head of hair. Bad analogy I know, but my point is, things will turn around. This ship has been going in the wrong direction for so long that it's gonna take a hell of a lot to get it going in the right direction.

Don't give up. Breath. Go take a walk and look around at the spring flowers blooming. It does wonders for your soul.

Okay, I'll stop now. Hang in there. :)

[itsmesgd]

148. I'm not a defeatist

I just wish that the dems would have stood up to bushco. How do you explain the dems failing to hold bush accountable? What about the dems removing the Iran authorization from the military spending bill. They gave Bushco free reign to do whatever he wants without coming back to Congress. They have told bush that he can go right ahead and attack Iran without any interference from Congress. I think that this is shameful, What are they going to say when we eventually nuke Iran?

[qwlauren35]

153. A lonely voice among the crowd.

I understand what you're saying. It disappointed me too.

It probably disappointed many, many people.

And yes, sometimes it makes the distinctions between Democrats and Republicans seem a bit blurry in regards to this whole "war" bullsh*t.

You're not really saying anything that hasn't been said in other editorials already. It was just the title.

We have some rather reactionary people here on DU.

Ignore the comments about leaving the country. If you feel it's time to become unaffiliated, then that's what you need to do.

[mzmolly]

154. Get on the phone and let them know how you feel.

I did, felt good!

[Freddie Stubbs]

164. You are going to need to suck it up and get over it

The Democratic Party supports Israel. It always has.

[On the Road]

165. I Think It's Shameful, Too

but I don't blame the supporters of the measure for not putting it through if it was certain to fail.

A lot of DUers seem to support using Congress to "make statements" with their votes regardless of the outcome. Most congressmen and senators are more inclined towards getting something accomplished, and are more intimately familiar with the results of their actions.

A resolution voted down does not merely demonstrate the strength of support -- it also shows the limits of support and the strength of the opposition (which would have been in the majority in this case).

I reserve my scorn for the minority of Democrats who caused it to be pulled.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

169. I've been horrified by the Democrats for 25 years, because their one

consistent behavior pattern has been CAVING. That's been true from the Reagan administration, which saw the formation of the DLC, who cheered on the military-industrial complex as rousingly as any Republican, to the present day, when an upset electoral victory seems to lead only to further timidity. This behavior pattern has been so consistent that I long ago came to the conclusion that the majority of Democratic Congresscritters and Senators are either bought or blackmailed or threatened into complying with the military-industrial-corporate agenda over the interests of the ordinary citizen.

I had some great candidates to vote for in 2006, and my Congressman in particular seems to have retained his backbone, but what the Dems are going after the election is the equivalent of being on the football field playing offense. Someone throws you the ball. You are close to the goalposts with no one blocking you, so you... stroll aimlessly along, while the home crowd screams at you in frustration and the opposition regroups to tackle you.

All your party cheerleading can't change that fact.

Working on the Kucinich campaign gave me insight into why real populist candidates have such a tough time (neglect and/or attacks by the media, being dissed by their own party), so I don't hold out great hopes for any of the leftist parties, either.

I feel politically homeless.

[Moderator]

173. locking....

This is flamebait.