No food, no water, no electricity in Houston area - another FAILURE of the * administration

[Hugabear]

Seriously, who didn't see this one coming? After all, it's only been a couple of years since Katrina. Did anyone honestly think that FEMA would have its shit together by now?

[EFerrari]

1. Where is the report from?

:(

[Hugabear]

3. Looking at some of the other posts in GD, and what I've heard on the news

People waiting in lines over 4 miles long, resupply hasn't been established yet, and reports that it might take over two weeks to get electricity restored.

[maddezmom]

5. We're looking at up to 3 weeksn for power in The Woodlands

north of Houston in Montgomery County

[TexasObserver]

30. parts of Huntsville have power and gasoline now

My sister and my niece both got gasoline there yesterday. West side of 45 at the main cross road there where the mall is located.

[maddezmom]

37. things are lookin up

hopefully 80% will have power by Friday and 100% by Sept 25.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/entergy-texas-estimates-power-restoration/story.aspx?guid=%7B9CF25C5A-789F-434F-A590-C39BCC9426E6%7D&dist=hppr

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

6. It takes a long time to restore electricity.

Lines get knocked down. Transformers explode. Substations can be damaged. There's a lot of infrastructure to replace. My mom's been without power for over 36 hours in Pennsylvania because of the remnants of Ike, and they're not scheduled to be turned back on until Thursday at the earliest.

[global1]

7. And So They Will Put Up Electric Poles & Generators Above Ground Only To Be .......

knocked out during the next Ike. I don't understand why they don't put the utilities underground. That is being done in many areas around the country.

Nothing like doing the same thing and expecting a different result.

We're better than this. I think?

[maddezmom]

11. our utilities are underground, but we still don't have power

because of sub-station or whatever they call it is down.

[Hugabear]

12. Thank you.

But even assuming they simply replace everything that's damaged, wouldn't it make sense to have the necessary items - extra poles, transformers, and labor - ready to go as soon as the storm clears out?

[Igel]

39. They have lots of parts. Ready to go.

But with 10k lineworkers and 2.1 million service points knocked out, it still takes time. Granted, the math works out to 210 customers per linesman, but that's bad arithmetic--it's probably more like 50-100 that each lineworker will help. Given 16 hour days, and the fact that many problems take hours to repair, you see the problem. They've even lost some lineworkers--they needed to go to their home territory to deal with the effects of Ike there.

You have to do damage assessment, compile reports and do triage; you get the major lines fixed, you replace transformers, you fix lines on individual streets, and then you hook them up to houses. 2.1 million customers. Not "people", but 2.1 names associated with electricity bills. But you get gas stations, grocery stores, etc., up and running first.

They've hooked up over 500k so far, in 3 days. It'll go slower, as they start having to take an hour or so per customer--hooking up individual houses or businesses. And in some areas the electricity poles are gone.

As for underground ... where we live, unless it hasn't rained for weeks, the water table is right near the surface. A week after it rains, low areas in the lawn still squish.

You want to watch the progress: http://centerpointenergy.com/staticfiles/ike/outages.html The page loads slowly at times.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

13. That doesn't work well in a lot of coastal areas.

A lot of these places, you dig two feet down, you hit the water table.

[Hugabear]

18. Yet we still manage to dig deep enough to lay down foundations for multi-story buildings

Somehow, we manage to find a way to do that. I guess it's a matter of priorities. Multi-story resort? We can do. More stable electrical grid? Somehow not so important.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

19. Do you have any idea how much that would cost?

And the power would still go out anyway.

[Hugabear]

21. I dunno. How much does it cost to replace the entire infrastructure every time a hurricane hits?

When Charley ripped through Florida a few years ago, they practically had to rebuild the entire electrical infrastructure in many places, just like I'm sure they'll have to in Texas. Yes, power would still go out if you had most of the electrical grid underground, but it wouldn't take so long or be as expensive to fix.

[global1]

35. Sure The Power Would Go Out - But It Would Be Easier To Fix And/Or....

replace and the power would be up sooner - not 3 weeks to a month.

Yes - it would be expensive to put it in underground initially - but the savings would come during times like this where the massive manpower, equipment, materials would be needed to replace an above ground system.

Also - if power were restored faster with an underground system - commerce would begin sooner and people would be back to a normal lifestyle sooner - including the collecting of sales tax, etc.

I'm sorry - it just doesn't make sense to keep doing the same thing - replacing the electrical poles, lines, etc - only to have another storm come by and destroy them again.

And that is our money that they are using to do this.

But this is the American way.

[aquart]

14. How deep underground?

I'm not against it, I'm just asking how deep powerlines would have to be buried to escape flood damage.

We need another way to deliver energy. And I have no clue if there is or could be such a way...but we have to start looking NOW. And we should have started 8 years ago.

[DS1]

15. It's not only going to last longer, but it's safer for drivers and MUCH prettier

to live in a town where there aren't telephone/power poles every 70 feet. They destroy scenic landscapes all the time, but Americans just don't realize how much until they travel abroad.

Of course, hammering poles into the ground is the cheap option, and will be the option taken.

[pnutbutr]

34. reality check

people are going to have to wait in line to receive assistance. It's not like there are hundreds of grocery stores they can go to. There is a limited number of places they can receive help from especially without power or with limited power from portable generators. Electricity infrastructure cannot be fixed instantly. Many areas will need to be cleaned up before it can be repaired.

[Rainbowreflect]

22. I just heard from my sister, who is in Huntsville.

They have no power, no food, no gas.

[EFerrari]

28. FEMA strikes again. I'm so sorry!

[TexasObserver]

29. I've had three reports from Huntsville, Texas. They have some power and some gasoline.

Tell your sister they have power on the west side of 45 in places, and there is some gasoline available there.

My son teaches at the University, and they have minimal power and internet access now, but no school until at least next Monday.

My sister drove 40 miles with her husband to Huntsville (from rural area) yesterday and they bought gasoline for their generator and car. There was a $50 gasoline purchase limit and the line was a half mile long.

My niece came through there yesterday, and told me they got gasoline there.

There is gasoline in Centerville, which is on 45 about 70 miles north of Huntsville.

[Rainbowreflect]

36. My sister teaches at the University too.

She was in Austin for business and stayed with friends through the weekend. Had to go home to get more clothes and meds, but heading back to Austin until she has to go back to work.

[TexasObserver]

38. Cool.

My son is in Houston with his girlfriend. They just got their power back on, so they're happy campers! They had a generator and a water source, so they were doing OK, but nice to have real power back.

I've got a sister in Austin, who lives there with her partner, and I've got two nephews and a niece (all adults) who live there.

My son said the school told them they wouldn't be back before Monday, so he's officially on vacation now!

[aquart]

2. Seriously, this is going to be happening more and more.

We need to come up with an entirely new way to restore power to cities.

[sam sarrha]

4. well... with global warming many coastal areas will have to be abandoned

[aquart]

9. A silly, easy statement. Are you also ready to abandon shipping?

We have port cities because ports are where we do our commerce.

Here's a treat for you: NO civilization has lost its coastal cities and survived.

And if you think Kansas is waiting to welcome 8 million displaced New Yorkers, you need to do hefty rethinking.

BTW, global warming also means heartland flooding and drought. Early models, and we know things are moving much faster than originally projected, showed the American wheat belt moving up to Canada by 2050. Famine, anyone?

We can't abandon our coast and our center, can we? Get this now: It's stand or die.

And when I say "die," I mean by the millions.

[Hugabear]

16. Um, I don't think we're really going to have a choice in that matter

Why are you attacking the poster for simply stating what will happen once the sea levels rise? Nobody's arguing that it will be a good thing, but we know that it's an inevitable consequence of global warming.

We're going to HAVE to adapt if we're going to survive, there's no two ways around it.

[Virginia Dare]

24. There is really no point in continuing the denial..

the oceans ARE rising and we are facing dire consequences, but it seems few of us are willing to be honest about this. These storms just get bigger and more deadly, and that's the least of our problems.

[Virginia Dare]

23. It'll be stand AND die..

when the oceans start rising (and they already are), what choice will we have? Every major city on the east coast will be a memory within the next century or so if things go the way they appear to be headed. Florida is history. I guess we can start putting these cities on massive stilts, but at this point, yep we're looking at dying by the millions if we don't start doing something about it.

[sam sarrha]

43. low lying areas will have to be abandoned, moved to higher ground, and built of concrete, hardened

against storms.. with the economy in the tank from the ReThug Mafia looting the middle class no one will be able to afford to build survivable dwellings. they will be forced to leave because insurance companies wont provide insurance anymore

refineries that now are in danger will just be walled till new ones can be built on high ground.. as they are too old and out dated to make moving financially feasible.

inland alternate renewable power systems will have to replace oil ports, because...

we are interring a new cycle of mega hurricanes.. tree ring records using O2 isotopes indicate a cycle of class 5 hurricanes that occur all the way up to Maine, storms 600-700 miles in diameter- 200 mph sustained winds, one after the other. not in the very near future but the near future. New York will probably be transformed to life above 30 feet, and most likely partially abandoned till adapted. a class 5 would shut it down.. a country in chaos couldn't afford to rebuild the entire electrical infrastructure, as it stands, of new york every 3 to 5 years.. the storm surge would flood the subways and cable tunnels with salt water and it would take years to repair it as it stands which would be prohibitive with multiple storms..

it could get really nasty.. a string of 4- 5 - or 6 class 5's hitting the east coast, even over 5 years, likely at least 3 a year.. there aren't enough trees for lumber to fix it.. yearly. ever been in a hurricane..?? a couple degrees increase in ocean temp is all it takes.. the oceans are already heating up

[aquart]

44. And since there's no survivable way to move us inland...

When the coast gets caught, they will let us die. Because there will be no place to put us and nothing to feed us.

I look at Central Park and feel so sad.

[Richard Steele]

10. No, we don't need a new way, we need the OLD way.

The "old way" was to have material stockpiled for emergencies,
and to have plans in place for dealing with those emergencies,
and to have Administrators in place who could execute those plans
when the shit hit the fan.

What we've had for the last 8 years is an Administration that has
installed INCOMPETENT CRONIES at every level, and they've been
busily PROPPING UP THE ILLUSION that their agencies still function normally
while they've been stealing everything that wasn't nailed down.

[Virginia Dare]

25. We need community based organizers who are trained in disaster preparedness..

and recovery, to work in conjunction with first responders. The types of people that the repubs were laughing at last week.

[EFerrari]

31. Exactly. n/t

[Captiosus]

40. Agreed completely.

When Isabel came through and hit the southeastern VA area, it was only a category 1 storm but caused a lot of power outages and flooding. My wife and stepson evacuated but I rode out the storm because it I didn't think it was going to be severe enough to warrant taking all our pets.

Luckily I was right, but we were without power for 4 weeks.
We were one of the areas in the city that was the last to get power restored and for the two weeks that we had no access to stores (which had no electricity) to get non-perishable goods, the Red Cross came around twice daily and handed out food and water. And they had so much that they offered me extra for my pets.

Betcha that wouldn't happen now a days.

[misanthrope]

8. Not being callous...

...but this is what the aftermath of a hurricane typically is. It's one of the reasons I don't understand why so many flock to this area of the nation.

As people have overbuilt the Gulf Coast, this was an inevitability.

[Dreamer Tatum]

20. Today is Tuesday. The hurricane hit on Saturday.

People are working 24/7 to recover.

A giant storm hit a huge area, and it's an outrage that...what...the recovery isn't complete?

You mean it's hard to distribute emergency supplies to a flood-ridden, debris-strewn place with people spread out
across an area as big as most of New England?

You mean you can't hook up power to every single home, apartment complex, and business that had the lines ripped from the box by wind and debris in less than 72 hours?

You mean you can't immediately return to a place covered in a stew of receding floodwater, sewage, fire ants, and other potentially dangerous substances?

You mean you can't sit in your living room 1000 miles away and watch MSNBC news crews on a ghoulish hunt for floating, dead bodies that haven't even had the dignity of next-of-kin notification?

What an INCONVENIENT world we live in.

[B2G]

41. Word n/t

[juajen]

27. The answer is energy (oil and gas) and plentiful jobs. We do not

advertise it, but there is no lack of jobs in So. Louisiana and most of Texas. Of course, with the new natural gas fields discovered in No. Louisiana, they will soon join So. LA in plentiful jobs, and we will be crowded everywhere with people wanting to move here for jobs.

As stated above, port cities make our world go round. People should study a little before they post ignorantly. There was a lot of "Why rebuild New Orleans?" rhetoric after Katrina. Mind boggling! Without the port of New Orleans, historically, where would this nation be? The Mississippi River is more than mud you know?

One of my favorite memories is spending my honeymoon 44 years ago in New Orleans. Of course, then, I didn't live right next door, so it was more of an adventure. I remember my young self staring up and up and up at the huge ships on the Mississippi at the port. In particular, the ship I was staring at was a Brazilian ship that was full of Brazilian coffee. A sharp officer way up high saw us staring upward, and sent a crew member down to issue an invitation from the Captain of this great ship to come aboard and visit with him. We did. He served us wonderful coffee and gave us a supply. We did a short tour of the boat and were absolutely thrilled at seeing this monster that was so much a part of our rich economy.

How ignorant we are when we do not realize the importance of coastal cities to our country's past, present and future. Almost all great cities are port cities. I have a nephew that captains a big oil tanker for one of the big oil companies. He lives in the middle of our country, but spends a couple of months every year in New Orleans re-training on innovations in his industry.

I'm sure stories abound here about individual's connections to New Orleans. I heard it often after Katrina from my close relatives that are scattered all over the world. Perhaps global warming will do us in; however, after that there will just be new port cities. They are necessary to commerce and progress, not to mention ship building!

[misanthrope]

32. For your information...

...I happen to live in Mobile, Alabama so despite your bestowment of the "ignorant" label, I am quite familiar with the Gulf Coast, thank you.

New Orleans aside (and that city is not quite what it once was), this area of the country holds little appeal to me and is a major point of contention in my marriage. Meteorologically, socially, culturally, politically, you name it, it doesn't mesh well with my preferences. But different strokes for different folks...

And when I was referring to development on the coast, I was speaking very specifically to development within flood zones and on the beaches. I've seen the way humans have trampled the environment here to get as close to the water's edge as possible and most of it is an invitation for disaster.

[tannybogus]

17. I didn't. FEMAns are clueless. The administrators that is. nt

[Dukkha]

26. all the way up here in Ohio too!

2 million lost power Sunday and here on Tuesday most still have no power at home, myself included :mad:
It happens to the same neighborhoods every time and AEP has done nothing to do much needed upgrades to the power systems to prevent this. They estimate my county will not be fully restored until Sunday. So after throwing out a lot of spoiled food I'll be sitting at home again with nothing but a few candles, a couple flashlights, water, and a loaded rifle.

[bdamomma]

33. I hope all those people realize that again this miserable

government shows their negligence and incompetence.

[Regret My New Name]

42. How bad is the food and water issues?

Obviously FEMA should be able to organize the bringing and distribution of those items. If they are major shortfalls in food and water then FEMA fucked up and deserves blame for that...

However, I have a hard time blaming FEMA because some places are still without power and electricity. That's simply going to take time no matter what. It's still early too, so we can't really judge if they(whomever is in charge of that) completely fucked that up... Anyways, point being is that it seems too early to say that there was any major screw ups in that area...