I've had some really racist feelings today and I don't like the feeling.

[Jamastiene]

I really do not want these feelings and thoughts. I realize that it's the person who has pissed me off and not the race. In other words, I see my racism for what it is, for which I am glad. I want this to be a positive thread. I'm not talking about generalizations and stereotypes. I'm talking about personal experience. I'm talking about something positive, totally positive, you can mention.

Instead of giving in to misplaced agressive feelings toward a race rather than the actions of an individual person, I'd like to turn these horrible feelings I am having today into a positive experience. So, instead of going into the lurid details and being all negative about the incidents that made me start thinking, I figured I'd start a thread asking DU'ers to think of something positive and likable about middle eastern men and post it if you will.

I'll start:
Quite a few middle eastern men have pretty shiny black hair well into their middle and elder age. I do love that shiny black hair. I had black hair like that when I was a kid, but started going gray at 20 years old. I sure miss having pretty hair like that. I wonder what the secret is to keeping that black hair so long.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. A lovely Middle Eastern man

gave us a great present - a huge discount on his delectible food which he served at our wedding. He was very excited about Universal Worship because he could see that honoring all spiritual traditions could help heal the troubles in that part of the world.

[burythehatchet]

2. As a man of Eastern descent (Indian)

I find this very creepy. Not judging, just expressing my feeling.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. Y eah.

Seems a tad patronizing.

Probably not the intent, but...

[Karenina]

10. I'm creeped out.

"Give me a reason NOT to lump them all into one category."

[Jamastiene]

30. Did not mean for it to be creepy.

I'm sorry if you are offended. It was not the intent. We hear so much negative on a daily basis. I only wanted something positive here because we hear so little positive. The hope for anything positive has been lost here it seems as well. I guess saying anything positive has become the real taboo, not the negative. That is uttered on a daily basis, but the positive is hit with more of the same hate that the negative caused in the beginning. That's sad if you ask me.

Again, I didn't mean the post as a bad thing. I meant it as a good thing. Too bad many are missing the hope and intention of the thread. I may ask that it be deleted just because so few are getting the point.

[Hatalles]

60. I think the "creepiness" some are feeling...

... is in that you still seem to be viewing "Middle Easterners" as a monolithic group, rather than as individuals. I know "Middle Easterners" you wouldn't even recognize as being from the Middle East. I personally know someone born and raised in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia who has absolutely no accent, blond hair, green eyes, who everyone takes as as a "white guy."

I do recognize what you're trying to do though. :hug:

BTW, here's a way of putting a face to the ME:

http://www.chattheplanet.com

[bananas]

73. I don't think you should delete the post

It's a taboo subject, but hopefully DU is a progressive place where these things can be discussed intelligently and with sensitivity. For example, the Religion/Theology is full of childish insults, the Israel/Palestine forum is so bad they don't let you recommend posts for the greatest page, and the 911 forum has to be hidden away because it makes DU look bad.

[pinto]

91. You've apparently got some concerns about DU administration.

We encourage you to contact the Administrators with your comments.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/contact.html

Thanks for your consideration.

[bananas]

102. No, my concern is with DUers

including myself, sometimes :evilgrin:
I think DU is adminstered very well, the mods do a great job.
My only real suggestion is for the "latest threads" page,
let us select which forums are included,
right now we only get to select the Lounge.

[SayWhatYo]

110. heh.. I think I would find it creepy too...

but hey, who am I to judge?

[WindRavenX]

3. A really cool guy from Morocco tried to sell me a cool hookah in Cambridge

But it was still too pricey--but he gave me some kick ass figs and tea and we smoked in the back :smoke:

He was kewl.

[DoBotherMe]

5. I've found that sterotypes are

usually cultural rather than racial ... at least in my experience. This observation has made it easier for me to understand and accept differences in actions by others. D ; )

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

6. I Still Find The Premise Disgusting, Regardless.

Issuing a question asking to say positive things about middle eastern men, as if you can't think of enough on your own, is still blatantly racist in my opinion.

If you truly had felt remorse towards your unwarranted feelings, and recognition that it was just simply one person, you wouldn't need any additional support from DU to solidify your notion that maybe, just maybe, middle eastern men are in fact people too or somethin.

I'm sorry that you may not be able to see why this thread is still absolutely filled with a spirit of racism.

[BuyingThyme]

7. All people are known to hug.

[Book Lover]

8. I realize you are trying to make it better, but

please consider that you are probably making it worse. Replace ethnicity with gender in your OP and I hope you would see what I mean.

[blonndee]

9. I can't generalize really, as I only know one Middle Eastern man, but my coworker from Jordan

who I consider a friend, but a "work friend," if you know what I mean, is one of the kindest, gentlest people I've met. He's very thoughtful and a great conversationalist, although I think one of his best qualities is that he really LISTENS and demonstrates genuine interest in whatever you're saying. His wife recently had twins, a boy and a girl, and he's crazy about them. I was honored and amused when he eagerly dug their pictures out to show off to me.

[blonndee]

12. I hope no one is offended that I responded to the OP.

My intent was not to generalize, but to share my pleasurable experience in getting to know someone from another country--specifically a ME country.

[Mandate My Ass]

11. You're probably still within the time window to self delete this post

Why not spare yourself and GD and do so?

[Rosemary2205]

15. I doubt the OP sees this as a bad post.

I think the effort is intended to be genuine - just more than a little misplaced.

[burythehatchet]

17. Correct n/t

[DemExpat]

13. Pretty hair is the positive likeable point you can think of?

I vote for disturbing post too....

DemEx

[Mandate My Ass]

33. Nice hair. It's like saying "nice picture frame"

when somebody wants you to admire a loved one in a photo but you find them totally repulsive....:shrug:

[Nimrod2005]

14. It is olive oil, soak your hair in it for about 1 hour every night, then shower with

as warm water as you can handle.

[angstlessk]

16. Ya know after 9/11 some people tend to think of middle easterners as the enemy

I recall at the Social Security office well after 9/11 there was a woman with the scarf and long dress and I could not help looking at her..I knew it was obvious, but it was as if I could not help myself. I tried to show a 'good vibe' face, I could not grin like an idiot. I held no animosity, just curiosity. She had the most beautiful pastel shade of green outfit on, including her scarf. She was beautiful and her husband handsome...but I could not help myself...I think that is prejudice also, though I had not a single bad thought, just curiosity.

[Jamastiene]

22. There are a couple of really beautiful ME women at my school

What a lot of people don't know is that, in fact, neither of them speak the same language, and neither of them is from the same country. They explained to me that they were having a hard time understanding the teacher. A lot of people assumed they were having a hard time understand the material, but it was the type of accent the teacher had that was throwing them. We spent many hours discussing how difference dialects and different accents and differences in general get in the way of real communication between people. I learned a lot from that. That's why I hated the bad feelings I had today. Hell, according to a lot of the people in this thread, I deserve to be hanged or stoned right now because of it. At least I recognized it for what it was and acknowledged it and looked for a way to make something positive of it instead of negative.

[Karenina]

29. I live in a neighborhood

that has LOTS of ME, African, Kölsch and Asian folks. I was SHOCKED at myself on the 12th of September 2001. The FEAR I felt about those who have been in my environs for a decade... IT IS CREEPY, Jamastiene, to confront our own predjudices. What's EVEN MORE CREEPY is recognizing how easily they are set off. :hug:

[Jamastiene]

95. All too easily.

You find yourself frustrated and using all the wrong reasons. A lot of people, IMHO, felt and still feel what you mention about 9/11. Much of the subsequent information dispensed by our MSM about the people of the middle east has been particularly nasty. It leaves little room for the positive. Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I really appreciate it. I think this is an issue that does need some discussion and some brainstorming to change or remedy the current feelings, not only my own, but also the country as a whole.

[StClone]

18. Let me shook you up

To a brain scan and see if it's just that good hair.

http://in.news.yahoo.com/031125/43/29rb7.html

Can brain scans prove racist attitudes?
By Prasun Sonwalkar, Indo-Asian News Service

London, Nov 25 (IANS) Is it possible to scientifically determine whether a person is racist or casteist? Researchers say brain scans can provide proof of a person's attitude towards race.

Researchers in the U.S. claim a person's views about race can be spotted through close brain scans, but British Asian lawyers dealing with race cases are not convinced.

The research, led by Jennifer Richeson of Dartmouth College, New Hampshire, hogged headlines in the British press after the recent BBC sting operation in which police recruits were shown making overtly racist statements about Asians and Afro-Caribbeans.

Trevor Phillips, chairman of the Commission of Racial Equality, cautiously welcomed the research, but said using brain scans as a test for racism would not be useful.

"We spend far too much time worried about trying to detect racism in people rather than circumscribing the behaviour that leads to bias.

[Jamastiene]

23. Interesting study. I wonder if some people are predisposed to

it in reality no matter how much against it they may be in principle.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[burythehatchet]

20. Interesting counsel n/t

[Book Lover]

21. In fact, I think I shall not screw myself, thank you just the same

If the OP's original goal was to stop feeling racist feelings, perhaps s/he should listen to the points made here, particularly the one made by the DUer who is a man of the ethnicity the OP discusses.

[BuyingThyme]

24. Thank you for discounting my post based on race.

Truly amazing.

[Book Lover]

27. Let me return the gesture by thanking you for telling me to screw myself

How gracious of you to say such a thing. Thank you.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

31. Apparently...

he/she is still looking for those good words to replace the bad words.

I wonder if they looked under the couch.

[BuyingThyme]

37. Your support for the bad words is noted.

Anybody else?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

38. Which bad words?

Fuck you?

[BuyingThyme]

41. Oh, is that what hurt your sensibilities?

I was apparently giving you the benefit of doubt.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

44. It doesn't hurt my sensibilities, fuck no.

Why do you ask?

[BuyingThyme]

49. Because you just equated the F word with racial slurs.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

52. I equated the "fuck" with bad words.

Altough for the record, I will equate "they've got really nice hair" with "boy, they sure are cute when they're young."

[BuyingThyme]

54. Really? How so?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

57. It's "good words."

Now isn't that special?

[MonkeyFunk]

55. LOL

:thumbsup:

[BuyingThyme]

32. Too late.

[Jamastiene]

25. I'm confused as well as amused by this one.

Dunno what to say about it at all. But I would like to have a positive thread about something for a change. We hear on a daily basis how bad m.e. men and about all the bad that happens, but there is plenty of good out there too. Like it or not, all sorts of factors really do work their way into a person's perception of different people for all the wrong reasons. It's up to us whether we try to remedy the situation or just hate people for no good reason.

[BuyingThyme]

28. If you thought about calling him a bad name,

you may have been flirting with racism.

If you thought about shooting him in the face with a cannon, you were just pissed at what he did.

[Jamastiene]

42. That's to the point enough.

Maybe what I was thinking wasn't racism then. I didn't think of calling him any names as I don't really use those silly names. What I did think was that the reason he did not understand a simple question was because of the language barrier and it's incredibly frustrating when he's answering based on a misunderstanding of the original question. Now, I'm really confused, but that's the best way I can describe it. It is not an isolated incident with him. He just never does understand the simple questions many students ask him. This is some fairly tough material so I figured it would help if we could ask questions and get answers without him going off on a tangent. He doesn't really seem to be interested in understanding the questions no matter how frustrated we get. Then on top of it, he fusses at us for not understanding him. That's uncalled for. And yes, he has been breathing down our necks despite our confusion and fussing at us needlessly an awful lot lately. It's not just one or two of us who are having this problem, but the others are afraid of not being able to pass the class if we try the system to get some sort of resolution. There could be retaliation if we do try, so we are all in a losing battle.

[burythehatchet]

36. Let me try to explain

The way its perceived is that if a sufficient number of positive traits are submitted, then middle eastern people could achieve a high enough score for you not retain animosity towards them. I'm certain that's not your intent, but that's how it is perceived. You're intention is good but it doesn't come across that way. The reality is that there are assholes in every group of people. Each of us is reponsible for having the emotional maturity to recognize that on our own.

:)

[Jamastiene]

58. Obviously, it came across incredibly wrong, but I only wanted or intended

a positive thread to dispel those very hatreds that people have. This is the last time I post something serious on DU for that reason. People read an awful lot into something that meant well. I'm sorry for posting it to begin with. I guess the stereotypes will endure because I can't figure out how to ask a simple question when what I really wanted to do was ask a simple question to dispel those very feelings that I never wanted to have. I really think part of the problem, though, is that people want to keep things so surface oriented when discussing issues of race that they miss an opportunity to make things better by going deeper and getting to the bottom of the bad feelings many people have and working to recognize them for what they are and just be better in this world. Be the change you want to see, in some way. That's not going to happen though if people won't seriously discuss the issues. Maybe I should have worded it differently, but it would not have been answered, I am sure. I could have asked, "Say something nice about someone different than you." but that would have been met with trivial topical banter that would not have addressed the actual issue, IMHO.

[burythehatchet]

67. Don't feel bad, as I said above your intention was

good. And anyway, some of the posts are cracking me up. Don't take the criticism seriously. :)

[Jamastiene]

68. I guess GD has turned into the Lounge today.

I meant for it to be a serious post for something positive, but some of it is sort of funny, isn't it?

[burythehatchet]

69. and there is no finer instrument

for bringing people together than laughter. See? Your original intent has been accomplished, albeit along a most circuitous path.

[Jamastiene]

80. All the way around my elbow, I tend to travel.

I guess it might just work on some of the more serious subthreads if we keep it up and enjoy the hysterical laughter in the other parts. That might just save my original intention in some way. Maybe people will come together after all. Thanks for your input.

[Blue-Jay]

26. Fine, but how do you feel about cavemen?

[burythehatchet]

39. Best ad campaign EVER.

The airport one cracks me up every time. It never gets old.

[Blue-Jay]

59. That's my favorite one as well.

The background music really sells it.

[Lord Byron]

34. What the fuck does "Middle Eastern" mean?

Arab? Turk? Kurd? Persian? Afghan? Uzbek? Not that far eastward? ok...Berbers? Maghreb Arabs? Sephardi? Mizrahi?

Stupid term.

This is ridiculous, stupid, and very demeaning.

Coming from someone who is half *Middle Eastern*

[jobycom]

48. I thought it meant Virginia, and in that region. No?

:shrug:

[sundog]

35. funny, some silly broad posted a ridiculous thread today, so i wanted

to think of something nice to say about women

some of them have nice tits

[Mandate My Ass]

40. .

:applause:

[crispini]

63. point very well made. nt

[nam78_two]

70. !

:thumbsup:

[fujiyama]

117. Were they sugar tits?

Why am I all of a sudden reminded of Mel Gibson?

Them Jews...not all of them are cheap and start wars...ummm, they're really good with money! Not all Arab men are mysoginistic, religiously fanatical terrorists...They have nice hair!

I have to say this is one of the most bizarre threads I've seen on DU in a while....

[TorchTheWitch]

122. BRAVO!

Excellent way to make the point. I was trying to do the same but just couldn't come up with the right wording. You did it perfectly.

Thanks! :applause:

[jobycom]

43. That's not the right approach to ending racism.

Trying to replace negative stereotypes with positive stereotypes is like trying to drown in spring water instead of creek water. The problem is the stereotyping. Looking for "something positive and likable about middle eastern men" is not much different than looking for something negative. The problem is the judging of people you don't know by qualities you assume all or many of them within an arbitrar grouping have, using your own cultural and personal indoctrinations as a standard.

Look for historical or current figures in your artificial grouping you do like. Learn more about the culture you are denigrating. That will be complicated, since "Middle Eastern" is about as unified a culture as "North American" or "female," and that in itself is something you should realize. Try to understand that your perceptions are based on what you have been taught, just as are everyone else's.

Without knowing more about what makes you angry, that's the most I can say, really.

[Lurking Dem]

45. Let me attempt to offer some advice.

"Back in the day" as my son would say, I was kidnapped and nearly killed by an African American college basketball player.

Because he was a college basketball player, justice would never be mine even though I gave a very good description of him (they knew who it was when I described him) and later ID'd him to an officer.

For awhile, as I healed from my injuries, I suffered.....animosity.....toward black men. This bothered me a great deal and I wondered if some part of me had been irretrievably stolen.

Finally I asked myself, "what if I had been attacked by a pipe smoker?" Would I have held animosity toward pipe smokers? What if I had been kidnapped by a bearded man? Would I have crossed the street if I saw a man with a beard coming toward me? My answer was an emphatic, "yes!"

That "yes" enabled me to see my feelings for what they truly were and not as a basis for some kind of deep seated racism. Because I was able to be up front with myself about my feelings, I could address them (as you seem to be trying to do) head on.

In no time at all I was back to myself (in that regard anyway) but with new perspectives and maybe a little insight.

[Jamastiene]

51. Thank you.

This is the best reply yet. I appreciate you sharing what appears to be a very painful experience and sharing your method of coping. I guess it all goes back to an old saying about once bitten, twice shy. Sometimes our minds play tricks on us in an effort to protect us from something that was traumatizing. I really appreciate your observation here. I think it may be just what I was looking for. I will try to ask myself those same questions and think more that way to solve this problem.

[Lurking Dem]

56. Think of it as a journey.

Sometimes you will stray off the path. But if you keep the final destination in mind, you will find your way there.

I'm glad I could help.

[Jamastiene]

62. Thank you again.

I really needed something concrete I could wrap my mind around to work with this. My family is one of those families in my hometown that is pretty much looked down on. I don't want to be the things I dislike in life. I want to be the good I want to see in life. Again, thanks.

[MonkeyFunk]

46. What a strange, eerie thread.

if only we could get the Israelis and Palestinians to sit down and discuss conditioners, we'd all be singing Kumbaya before the weekend.

[burythehatchet]

47. OK I just laughed up a lung

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Garbo 2004]

61. LOL!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

65. LOL.

No one could have possibly forseen this happening.

:rofl:

[WindRavenX]

72. oh. dear.

...

[burythehatchet]

77. This has turned into my favorite thread this month

I'm LMAO :rofl:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

78. Hey, at least it turned out productive.

We caught a live one.

[burythehatchet]

79. I'm bookmarking this bad boy

and adding the OP to my buddy list. I have an odd affinity for her.

[Hissyspit]

105. OP is woman, unlike what you automatically assumed. n/t

[Duncan Grant]

53. Today's lesson: Don't be vulnerable at DU lest you regret it.

I think many of us confront these bias more often than we would care to admit. It's culture bound, and I appreciate the fact that you're 'owning' your experience -- I can empathize. Good on ya.

Sorry to see so many exploit your truthfulness. It's plain to see that you're actively seeking ways to increase your capacity to embrace humanity.

Wouldn't it be interesting to engage straight white people in a conversation about privilege and entitlement? I ask it as a question because it would never happen here without some condescending a**hole crying about "PC!".

I appreciate your effort, J! I thought your honesty and self-awareness was a step in the right direction! :thumbsup:

edit: sp subject line

[Jamastiene]

66. Thank you. It's a shame that I may have to ask for a deletion

of a thread that is kind of a first of its kind effort to be positive and bring people together about real life experiences and doing something positive on the issue of race. I wonder how many people have stopped to think that a serious discussion could have taken place here while many just take potshots based on my admission that I may be falling into a trap of thinking that I never wanted to fall into. That kind of hate would only lead to more hate, you some people seem to want to make light of it in such a way that it leads someone with good intentions to give up on the issue. That would surely be an opportunity missed. I really appreciate your truth telling and your opinion on this issue. I appreciate that you understood me and replied in such a thoughtful way. I think you really nailed it when you said many of us confront biases more often than we care to admit. You said it right.

[jobycom]

71. I don't think people were upset about the OP's dilemma

It was the solution that put many people off. Asking "How should I handle this?" or "Does anyone else feel this way sometimes?" or something like that would help. Saying "Let's list things we like about 'x' people" comes across as condescending, at best, and dehumanizing, at worst, especially with the specific example of hair. I don't think the reactions here were out of bounds. I think the approach the OP suggested was out of bounds. How would you like your identity boiled down to the quality of your hair and a list of other trivial attributes.

I have no problem with the confessions of the OP, but the solution was highly offensive to me. Still, I tried to answer it seriously upthread. It took several total deletions to get the anger out of my response, though.

[burythehatchet]

74. Between stimulus and response

only man has the ability to choose.

[Duncan Grant]

97. Isn't the OP choosing to follow her better nature?

When someone chooses to ask for help in order to transcend culturally sanctioned biases, it is my duty to meet them half-way. The choice to ask for help was a good one.

[burythehatchet]

98. I was referring to joby's good choice not to respond in anger

[Duncan Grant]

99. Got it!

Thanks for that. :hi:

[Duncan Grant]

96. Not all of us enter these personal epiphanies with a fully formed resolution.

I think you make valid points but I'm choosing to give the OP the benefit of the doubt. What I read was an honest disclosure of a confusing and probably painful realization. My interpretation was: I recognized something disturbing in myself today and I need empathetic people to help me process it.

I'm willing to enter this sensitive area with others even when the presented "solution" is awkward or uninformed. I can remember my own tentative efforts to discuss my own internalized biases. It took more than one attempt to learn how to present it in a palatable manner.

That people are willing to disclose their internal dissonance regarding race, class, sexual orientation, etc. is remarkable. I'd like to see more people offer support to one another instead of the snarky superiority trip.

[jobycom]

106. Well

That is why I deleted my more snarky replies before posting. On the other hand, I don't agree that people were engaging in "superiority trips." I think people were genuinely offended. Maybe they should have tried to control their reactions, but you seem to be giving the OP the full benefit of the doubt, and those who were offended by her post none of that same benefit. In other words, you forgive her for not understanding her offense, but not others for not understanding theirs. Both sides erred on the same point--battling bias, in the way they saw fit.

I can't write worth a darn tonight. I hope I explained that adequately.

[Duncan Grant]

121. Having a laugh at the OP's expense is the "superiority trip".

I can empathize with both the OP and those who take genuine offense.

The "superiority trip" is evidenced by the snarky humor aimed at the OP. It contributes nothing to the thread but ridicule. If the OP is guilty of anything it's an unpolished (and obviously unrehearsed) statement at the end of their post. The entertaining quips offered by some here were malevolent -- something I don't think we can attribute to the OP, imho.

I appreciate that you're not on a superiority trip but willing to engage with others in a vulnerable way, too. I respect your point of view and obvious desire to have an exchange of ideas. It's nice to bump into a DUer who's willing to share the experience instead of 'win' it. :thumbsup:

edit: forgot the apostrophe...

[mdmc]

75. I was once mugged

I hear you...

[mmonk]

76. One of the best friends I have had is of Persian descent (Iran)

who became an American citizen years ago. I sometimes wonder if he's ok through all this stuff. I guess I should check in on him sometime soon to ease my mind.

[nam78_two]

81. I don't want to doubt your good intentions

and I appreciate the honesty, but the post really isn't quite achieving its purpose if something appearance-related is all you can find to appreciate about ME men :shrug:.

I mean this doesn't really work does it " I really have a problem with white men, but white skin is very pretty to look at"? I think serious discussion on such issues would be a good thing, rather than people suppressing their racist feelings, lying to themselves and have it come out some other way...But when trying to exorcise such feelings, care should be taken on how you structure such arguments.

There are ME people/peopleME origin reading this post and I doubt that they would feel better about this post because it praised their hair...

I am of East Indian origin, but I have often been told I look Iranian/Persian and I am living in the south now. Whenever someone is rude to me for some reason, I immediately wonder if its because of my race or what they perceive as my race...specially nowadays when there is so much hostility towards "brown people". Its a very shitty feeling. I mean the girl at the shop could have been rude just because she is having a bad day-but I will never know.
And those feelings are exacerbated by things one reads or sees, so anyone who is liberal/tolerant making such points should try to consider that while you may feel bad about having racist feelings, overall its worse to live with the idea that everyone hates you.

[Mandate My Ass]

84. I work with several Iranian people in my department

as well as people of Near and Far Eastern descent. These people are the first to throw open their homes to Americans than any other co-workers I've ever worked with in my entire life. They take pride in their heritage and provide culinary expertise in a manner that is meant to enhance our own palate, not usurp it.

Their beliefs are kept under the surface unless you actively engage them and seek their opionions, which are respectful and well thought out. Their opinions on Western culture are always couched in the most positive light and they express gratitude for being able to make a contribution here as opportunities in their native land may not be available. The language barrier, which the OP laments is annoying when when use it but attractive when women do so, is very telling IMHO.

[nam78_two]

87. Very true.nt

[burythehatchet]

89. In Hindu culture when someone visits your home

whether they are a friend, relative or stranger, the visitor is always given the best bed in the house. It kind of freaks out my American friends when they are asked to stay in my master bedroom.

[slj0101]

82. Gee, my black roommate sure had a big weiner!

:eyes:

[burythehatchet]

83. STOP

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[SayWhatYo]

112. They have nice goats...

after all, all middle easterners own goats, right?

*oops, that was supposed to be a reply to root.

[Blue-Jay]

85. !

[The Straight Story]

86. My Iranian friend has a nice prayer rug, and a black guy I know has a sweet grill :) (nt)

[Susang]

93. I know an Asian guy with a huge mechanical pencil!

He could write forever with that thing! :D

[burythehatchet]

94. Susan, is that you?

[AspenRose]

111. Oh, you are going straight to hell for that one!

:rofl:

[SmokingJacket]

88. I think racist feelings are pretty common.

What you have to do is recognize that they are racist, and make damn sure you don't act on them.

People aren't responsible for their feelings, but they are responsible for their actions.

[ecstatic]

90. Just try not to prejudge individuals that you meet

And treat everyone who you meet with respect.

Though I can't personally relate to your beef with middle easterners... Negative feelings towards any group for whatever reasons are a pretty normal occurence, based on some conflict between what you believe that group stands for and how you feel it affects your own life and livelihood. The important thing to remember is that 1) hating takes up way too much energy and is bad for your own health, 2) if you were to pick out any random person from the "group" you are having issues with, you might find that you really have a lot in common and that s/he does not fit the stereotypical profile that you initially presumed. Just try to, at the very least, keep your impression of a group separate from how you deal with people on a one on one basis.

[BlooInBloo]

92. ROFLMAO!!! As if they differ in any substantive way from other men....

... at least you called the racist bit right.

[AbbyR]

100. This is so strange...

I remember after 9/11, the first thing I did was call my college-age daughter and ask her to check on three of her friends, one from Pakistan and two from Iran, to see if they were safe. My first thought was "Some redneck idiot is going to shoot them." I knew the friends and was concerned - nice kids and they were fine, by the way.

On the other hand, if I were to get on a plane with men appearing to be Middle Eastern, I would be nervous. Nervous enough to get off the plane? No. And why wouldn't I be nervous if someone who looks like Timothy McVeigh (sp?) got on board? Racism? I hope not, but I really don't know.

I have white people I love and white people who drive me nuts. Same with black people and kids and dogs (Lord deliver me from a Peke). So what does that make me? I hope it makes me human and trying, every day, to do better.

[treestar]

101. Culturally speaking, among those who immigrate to the US

I have met several such persons and will generalize about them as follows - commenting that it is not meant so much as "stereotype" as observations on people from another culture. The Arabs have a work ethic that does not quit, and they do not run around on their wives at the rate Amercian or Euro men do - at least, some American women who have married middle eastern men have been very happy - it seems they will often follow the Muslim rules even if they marry a non-Muslim, and if they are Christian they will actually live that life.

I also find that the Arabic sense of humor is greatly in tune with the American. We laugh at similar things (other cultures do not laugh at the same things. Even the British sense of humor is not entirely the same as ours). English is relatively easy to Arabs to learn (it is more difficult, in general, for Orientals, for example, to get the pronunciation). Oddly enough, in spite of 911 and terra, people from the two cultures get along rather well in a day to day setting.

[uppityperson]

103. Middle eastern men are like anyone else. Some nice, some not so nice. This seems racist.

Now, how to generalize the positive stuff about middle eastern men? My first problem is that this also seems racist. Some are nice, some are not nice, some are cute, some are not cute, some play drums well, some not, some like to cook, some don't, etc etc etc etc etc. How about finding a near/middle eastern restaurant nearby and going to eat there, hang out, talk to owner, patrons, etc, if you can't find some another way? That can help.

[uppityperson]

104. The only people who have ever assaulted me have been "white" men.

[BlueStorm]

107. I think we all have a bit of racism in us, now matter how progressive we are...

I was raised in a predominately black neighborhood, had mostly black friends and I have a black stepdad yet there are times when the 'N' word or some other epithet or racial sterotype will cross my mind. I have done this with Hispanics as well.

I deal with it by telling myself that this is not who I am (racist) and that I was brought up better than that. I remind myself that we are all of the Divine and no race is better than another. I feel that these types of negative psychic attacks are just what it is and that we must replace them with positive thoughts and feelings.

Blue

[Lerkfish]

108. when in college, I was an attendant for a paralyzed man, he taught me that

disabled people are mostly perceived in two ways: as saints or ogres.
People either laud them as "heroic" and patronize them like children or abstract concepts, or they are frightened and repulsed by them and turn the other way or become antagonistic to them.
He made the point that BOTH perceptions are harmful because they prevent seeing the PERSON as they really are. They instead see their condition and then react to that.

Interestingly, he said that if you could not view the person as a sexual being, you could not view them as a whole person. Both the saint and ogre stereotypes preclude sexual connotations. Not sure I agree with that completely, but it did make me think a lot about it.

By the end of the summer I'd shed MY particular tendency (to view disabled people as saints). I instead saw him as a person that I could choose to like or dislike based on his behaviour or attitudes instead of his disability.

Race is not a disability, but I found the opening post reminded me of the dichotomy of either a bad racist stereotype or an unrealistic and surface postitive stereotype.

[spacelady]

109. My husband has pretty shiny black hair and great olive complexion

& many think he is of ME descent, even those from that area, but he is of Dutch ancestry. His hair is the envy of all but dead Elvis.

[Bucky]

113. Thank you for being tough enough to air your weakness here.

Society really reinforces ethnic stereotyping, which can easily lead to racist passions when one's anger gets aroused. It sucks when I see that in myself. Being honest about it, as you've done, is the first step toward growing beyond it.

But that bit about the pretty hair... that's kinda icky. You might want to be proactive and practice not thinking of people primarily in terms of their categories.

[Bonobo]

114. GREAT PERSONAL STORY. PLEASE READ.

Background: I am Jewish, living in a very progressive town...

It was the day after Israel started bombing Beirut last year... I felt horrible, shamed...

I went to the park, I think it was a Saturday... a beautiful sunny day. I saw a large picnic of Middle Eastern people. The men were gathered around a hookah and seeing it, I felt myself wishing I could be there with them and somehow bridge the horrible gap that I felt between us and assuage some of my guilty feelings...

I approached them nervously, not knowing how they would react and I asked them if I could try the hookah. You see, I had watched how carefully they had drawn fresh water for it from the pump and it all looked so beautiful and interesting (I hadn't smoked a hookah since college -he he)

They were so friendly and soon passed the hookah to me in turn. I drew in the delicious, citrus flavored smoke as everyone asked me how it was. I felt very warmly accepted for the brief time, and asked them where they were from. They were all Lebanese...

I didn't want to risk spoiling the mood by telling them I was Jewish, but secretly and strongly wished that I could have and that right there, I could have bridged some distance...but I was afraid...afraid of their reaction and of making a scene (would they wipe down the pipe with alcohol or burn it now?)
Still, I apologized for the horrible thing that was happening to their homeland and wished them well and thanked them profusely for sharing.

Looking back, I am regretful that I felt I couldn't share with them my true identity as a Jew and I wished I could have apologized as a Jew to them.

Isn't that a beautiful, but sad story?

How easy it is for misunderstanding and dislike and distrust to fester, even among good folk...

[athena]

115. I think the solution is to avoid generalizations.

Your post is just replacing one type of generalization with another. I used to do this too, until one of my friends pointed out that saying something good about a race can be just as racist as saying something bad. (For example, while you may think shiny black hair is a good thing, others may not: shiny hair can look oily. Furthermore, some Middle-Eastern men have blond hair. Here is another example: saying that women are more capable of empathy suggests that they may not be tough enough in business or politics -- it's also probably false.) The way to combat one's possible discriminatory tendencies is to stop making generalizations altogether and remind oneself that each person is an individual. I think that most minorities want their color/race/gender, etc. to be a non-issue. (On the other hand, they may not want their minority status to be ignored altogether: many black people I know are offended by white people's tendency to act as though racism did not exist. I get annoyed when men act like sexism doesn't exist.)

[Zhade]

116. They're human, just like us, and deal with the same things we do in life.

There. Done. That's ALL you need.

[La_Fourmi_Rouge]

118. I like shiny hair, too!

My friend Yetto has really shiny, black hair. It is very curly, as often seen in the Mediterranean region... everyone loves her hair because it is a riot of curls and shiny black beauty, gleaming like polished obsidian. We all give Yetto a bad time, becuase people are always asking her if she is Nubian or Amizagh (Berber), or Spanish, or Brazilian, or maybe from Mexico, and we search for the word that describes the color of her skin. The word never comes. It does not exist. Yetto laughs when we ask her these questions: "I am French!" she cries.

My lovely Tomomi has long, luxurious, shiny black hair that drapes across her sweater-draped shoulders like a pile of the finest Lyonnaise silk, heavy as lead, moving like mercury as she flashes down the hallways of the engineering section, supple and fragrant, caressing the eyes.

My dearest Coco has shiny black hair, as well! It is not straight or curly, but forms into wave-like shapes that frame her oval face. I like to look at it - I want to touch her hair, to run my fingers through it and perhaps draw her lips close to mine...

Fatiha has shiny black hair, as well - at least, sometimes... and when she does, well, I am drawn into a reverie, until she catches me and upbraids me for my indulgence.

I have no bad thought about these fine black-haired beings! Only Good Things!

Frankly, though, their black-haired, swarthy and muscular brothers eye me with suspicion, which makes me a little uneasy - I don't know why... Am I racist?

[REP]

120. If You Knew an Angharad, She Might Have Beautiful Black Hair, Too

Many of the Welsh are noted for their fair complections, blue eyes and black hair. Me, I have Welsh ancestry with the fair, fair complection and black hair - but I got my father's brown eyes!

[JCMach1]

119. it's called HENNA, they dye their hair regularly

:)

it's great, natural, and looks good on American types too...

[GeorgeGist]

123. I'm sorry for you...

but you should think for yourself; if your sig line is to be believed.