Why Isn"T Plame GateE not on TV??? DemandD IT on TV

[lovuian]

WHY this is IMPORTANT to AMERICA

???
WATERGATE WAS IRAN CONTRA was

[MonkeyFunk]

1. but it IS not on TV

[Pharaoh]

2. If a democrat had done it

it would be on 24/7

they control the corporate media

thank God for the internet!!

[lovuian]

7. Thank God is right for the Internet

Thanks to the people giving us the information

but it DOES BURN me we can't see these people squirm
CMon Congresss I want a front row seat

[Catherine Vincent]

3. Not as titillating as blowjobgate.

n/t

[lovuian]

38. Clinton Nixon Reagan all were on TV this is TREASON

at highest levels and we hear it from the newspapers

[ms liberty]

4. Watergate and Iran Contra were Congressional hearings...

The Libby trial is a federal jury trial in a court of law. I don't want my courtrooms turned into a reality show. Justice isn't served by having it televised, IMO.

[lovuian]

8. we got to see OJ trial

this is as big OJ's trial right

[mentalsolstice]

20. OJ's trial was in state court, not federal...different rules n/t

[lovuian]

33. Judge Judy gets televised

this is unfair

[tammywammy]

40. Judge Judy is a television show

It's not a real courtroom. She's just a mediator that both parties agree to decide the case.

Judge Judy isn't an equivalent to a Federal courtroom.

[mentalsolstice]

42. Uhhh, Judge Judy is in State Court as well...

and she's in the lowest of lowly courts...really no comparison to federal courts.

[tammywammy]

44. Actually, she's not part of the court system

She's just an arbitrator. The people that go on shows like that sign a waiver to go by whatever the "judge" says. She used to be a judge, well I think most of the judges on those shows used to be actual judges.

[mentalsolstice]

82. You're correct, she's an arbitrator

There is a waiver, however, her decisions are more binding than most states' district courts (small claims), because the waiver precludes an appeal. Some people may say, well, the claimants aren't represented by attorneys in her court, but that's pretty par for the course in many state district courts where claimants have a choice to retain council (of course, we're talking civil v. criminal here as well). She definitely does not rise to the level of a federal district court, where each judge has a lot of say over what goes on in his or her court room, and the level of decorum is infinitely raised.

I have the feeling you're part of the legal profession in some way, as I have been. I've tried to explain it here without getting into much detail for those unfamiliar with the layers of state and federal courts...

[lovuian]

54. Saddam's trial was on TV and thats Iraq Court Justice

this is Big... Its too bad we couldn't start our own TV show about it
I just don't like getting information from Fox news or CNN

its got a pro Bush slant

[Pharaoh]

55. The Point is ....

Clinton had to go on camera on tape and swear on the bible to talk about a Blow Job!!

And we can't watch a Treason trial!@!

We'd be watching a treason trial if Libby was a Dem........

[tammywammy]

58. Clinton wasn't tried in a Federal Court either

It was a Congressional hearing. There's a difference.

[lovuian]

86. Your Dang Right on and I want to see more about the Trial

this is one of the Biggest Moments in our history

[ms liberty]

72. The OJ trial was a farce...

with the judge, the prosecutors, and the defense playing to the cameras instead of presenting the trial to the jury. The prosecutor put on a crappy case, as well. And look how well it turned out...a guilty man went free. The civil case was handled much better.

[StClone]

9. Good Point but

Why isn't there non-courtroom coverage 24/7 of this if-not-treason-what-is-it atrocity.

[lovuian]

51. I'll go for that 24/7 non courtroom coverage how about CSpan

doing a special or some other TV channel called the SpyGate trials
I definitely would get that channel

[ms liberty]

73. Good question...it's one I'd like answered myself...n/t

[peacebird]

13. normally I would agree, but this is a very unique case and should be on tv

This is about the VP declassifying sections of the NIE for *political purposes*.... Top Secret classified material is not something even the VP gets to toss around lightly.
This is about corruption at the highest levels - even reaching to the White House - in an attempt to lie us into a war that they did not have any *legitimate* justification for.
These acts are basically so vile as to be considered treasonous - especially considering the loss of life as a result.

[lovuian]

43. This is a Historical moment and I don't like how its being

hidden from Americans... I watched on TV everyday when Nixon went down and I still remember it this is freakin 2007 and we can't see justice

at work... its very sad and shows how far America has been a closed society

maybe I'll take a trip to see it for myself

[peacebird]

47. Who can open it up to TV? Is there anyone we can contact?

[ms liberty]

74. You make excellent points, and I can't disagree with them...

but I think that if it were televised the whole climate and tenor of the courtroom would be changed, and the possiblity that some of the principals in the case would play to the camera and their constituency rather than focusing on the case itself would be a detriment to the case. This case is vitally important - this could possibly be one of the most important criminal cases in our history, IMHO. The facts decided in this case, the information learned, and the outcome are going to be on-the-record - and that record is going to help bring down these people. This isn't just for us, it's for history, for the Constitution, and the rule of law.

[BuyingThyme]

5. Because it's truth.

And truth is freedom.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

6. OJ was

more important than OJ

[lovuian]

12. Ya Bambino I agree this is about Treason

wasn't there a couple hanged for treason in WWII couldn't this be a HANGING offense???

[MonkeyFunk]

19. No

nobody's ever been executed for Treason against the United States.

and the charges against Libby don't come anywhere close to a capital offense. He's charged with obstruction of justice and perjury.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

25. I think today's hearings unearthed some 'worms'

Reading between the lines and the Washy Post headlines article that Cheney and Libby and others were conspiring to stop Plame in her tracks. The treason comes later.....:popcorn:

[MonkeyFunk]

27. the constitution

provides a very precise definition of treason. It will not come into play in this case.

[lovuian]

45. the trial just started how do we know where this will lead???

thats what makes the courtroom interesting ya never know

[MonkeyFunk]

48. because

they don't add charges during a trial.

And look up the definition of treason.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

69. no you're right

but that doesn't mean to say that this could open up more avenues in the future

[lovuian]

37. What sucks is that America has to read between the lines

In Nixon days we could see it this where Congress is failing Cheney should testify on TV

[Kagemusha]

10. The judge said no. That's why.

And please, no shouting. We hear you.

[goforit]

14. Skull n Bones believe all laws can be broken. We should demand it.

Nothing but whispers.

[lovuian]

16. whispering why didn't the Judge let us see???

american people should see this historic moment

[Kagemusha]

49. The judges have discretion to make trials less of a circus

so long as the official record - the official written transcript - is released to the public as required. The judge just doesn't want either video or audio recordings out in public because, well, that's how he prefers it.

And in reply to the other response above, the Executive Branch has no (censored) say in what the judge decides here. I actually like real rule of law and don't think treating the federal courts like Guantanamo Bay is going to be helpful.

[goforit]

11. March on Washington to demand coverage of these treasonists!!!

[H2O Man]

15. It's the law.

It's good that the judge is allowing bloggers to make it as open as possible.

[lovuian]

17. Its the law??? I am very glad we have Bloggers there

just wished TV coverage would be there too

[H2O Man]

21. Yeah.

I had hoped that there was going to be something more. But it simply wasn't allowed. Judge Walton has surprised many by allowing the progressive media -- bloggers -- in to give the grass roots information on what is happening.

[lovuian]

28. I;m glad Judge walton has allowed the Bloggers in

but it would have been great for American democracy to see these proceeding in real life

and I guess the Bloggers had to have special permission as well as other Media

H2OMAN can you tell me who the audience is Cheney's family is Wilson there whose in the audience what are they wearing
hows the jury looking??? are sleeping??? Hopefully NOT

[H2O Man]

34. Have you been

logging onto firedoglake? They have folks blogging, usually with updates every 15 minutes. It's worth reading through.

The testimony on Friday will be electric. It is going to be Ari Fleischer. Libby and Cheney have been exposed.

Also, watch the MSNBC Hardball show tonight. Matthews is playing the clips from 2003 that made Libby & Cheney furious, according to today's testimony.

[lovuian]

50. H2O Man ...I'll be there but pass this along to the Bloggers

List of want to knows
1. What does the jury look like
2. Is Scooter looking nervous or calm
3. Judge walton whats he look like
4. Is there lots of I objects

Is Fitz holding his own in there???

[H2O Man]

52. If this were

a boxing match, the ref would have stopped the fight by now to save Team Libby from further punishment. I can assure you that Mr. Fitzgerald is doing far more than merely holding his own. Of course, it is early in the trial .... but Libby is going to be convicted on all counts.

Today, for example, the defense attorneys ended the day by discussing plans to appeal.

[Tatiana]

81. Yep, he's going to get convicted. On all counts.

The more I read about the background of the jurors, the more I am convinced they will return a guilty verdict. I wonder who the foreman is.

The most important part of this trial is the insight gained into implicated administration officials. The only question I have is whether Libby will truly fall on his sword. I get the feeling that he is not helping his defense team as much as they would like.

[Missy Vixen]

60. There are some descriptions of ages and professions of jurors

at Firedoglake. They are not giving much of any physical descriptions to protect the jurors.

The descriptions of what's been happening in the courtroom are riveting. They're doing a great job.

http://www.firedoglake.com

Julie
still president for life of the PFEB

[Missy Vixen]

59. Unfortunately, Ari Fleischer won't be taking the witness stand till Monday

Judge Walton is currently hearing the case from 9:30 a.m. - 5:00 p.m., Monday - Thursday. Cathie Martin will be on the stand on Monday morning, they'll finish up with her testimony, then it's Ari time.

Just so everyone on the thread knows, the jurors are also semi-sequestered as well. They're being picked up at an undisclosed location each morning, brought to the courthouse, fed breakfast and lunch, taken back to the location after the court day's over and it all starts again on Monday. The only news they are permitted at this point are redacted or altered newspapers from the judge's staff.

Julie

[H2O Man]

61. Unfair!

Everyone simply must demand the trial be heard daily!!!! What will I do with myself Friday through Sunday????

Thank you for reminding me. I hope that you are enjoying this important event in our nation's history.

[Missy Vixen]

62. H2OMan, I wondered that myself!

>What will I do with myself Friday through Sunday????<

I know exactly what you mean! I've been glued to firedoglake.com since voir dire started a week ago Tuesday. My husband is eagerly anticipating the laundry and dishes getting done, my actually cooking dinner, etcetera. He might have to wait awhile! :woohoo:

I'll be able to catch up on some of your excellent essays this weekend, too!

>I hope that you are enjoying this important event in our nation's history.<

I am. Even better than reading about Patrick Fitzgerald, (sigh) I'm enjoying watching the Bush administration getting handed their posteriors in court!

Julie

[lovuian]

66. ROFL

:rofl:

[H2O Man]

68. Well ....

we COULD start another Plame Thread, and discuss what has happened so far, and predict what will happen, pretty soon.

[Missy Vixen]

71. Would you do the honors, kind Sir?

You are the local expert on all things Plame. I'm content to bask in your brilliance!

:applause: :toast:
Julie

[ms liberty]

77. Well said! We all bask in the brilliance of the H20Man, don't we! We're lucky to have him! n/t

[lovuian]

63. Thanks Julie and Mega Thanks H2OMan

Julie you understand what I'm interested in ...so they are getting No news just like other jurors

Cathie is still on Monday and Ari on Monday too

I'll be there Keep it coming :)

[Rosa Luxemburg]

31. I don't see why there is no TV

if the bloggers are there so can TV

[napi21]

18. PLEASE STOP! The judge said NO TV! It's his court room and

his decision is law!

There are severalbloggers allowed inthe court, and at least one outsidebut can hear the proceedings. They do a fairly decent job of play by play.

[goforit]

22. Change the law!!! Democracy in action.

Don't take it personal.

[H2O Man]

24. Change the law.

Good idea. Every case might not be of great value. But some certainly are. This is one of them.

[napi21]

29. You don't understand. The courtroom is thejudges domaine,

and what he/she says rules. You can't change a law unless you change that one, and I doubt you really want to do that.

I can understand, as much as I would love to see the LIbby trial including all the emotions, body languageetc. ofeveryone there, why a judge wouldn't want his court turned into a soap opera, day time TV show! If you think about it, you can understand that too.

The OJ trial really ruinedit for many trials. That really wasa soap opera trial!!!

[lovuian]

46. Maybe someday we will see it during Congressional trial

for impeachment... I can only hope... Pelosi I want to see this trial

[H2O Man]

53. The civil case

could, in theory, be more open to the media.

[goforit]

57. like when Wilson sues?

[lovuian]

64. Oh Now that is a definite Must have ...Hope We get that

then it will make this less sad for not seeing history in the works

[H2O Man]

67. "history in the works"

Now that is EXACTLY what this is. And I think it is fair to say that the internet has played a far greater role in this episode than many people realize.

[lovuian]

23. How do Bloggers get permission to see proceedings and

not American people??? How did they get permission??? from the job who is allowed in
can anybody go in??? just curious

Can someone explain

[H2O Man]

30. If you "google"

Case 1:05-cr-00394-RBW Document 242

.... You can read Judge Walton's 5 page Order from January 10, 2007, that defines who gets in. If you are in that area, go. The public is allowed into Courtroom 16, Courtroom 17, and/or the First Floor Media Center.

[lovuian]

35. laptops have cameras right

some laptops have cameras???

[H2O Man]

36. No cameras.

You won't get in with a camera or any recording device.

[lovuian]

39. No cell phones either How about Radio???

whats wrong with radio

I asked about laptops because college kids tell me they can record professors lectures

[lovuian]

41. Ok maybe I should shut up before Cheney has a garage door

kill me...:rofl:

I know I'm whining but dang it I wish I could see it

[mentalsolstice]

83. As a retired lawyer, I wish I could see it too...

...but I understand the difference between Judge Judy, O.J., the congressional hearings in Watergate, Iran contra, Clinton's perjury issues, this trial, and why it's not viewable on TV. To explain it to someone not familiar with the whole concept of due process, and the many layers thereof, would take much more time than is possible in this forum. I'm not knocking you for your desire to see this trial play out, I'm just saying that this is something that is taken up in 3 years of law school, and isn't easily explained. And even then lawyers routinely argue the proper forum for certain issues.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

26. aren't we paying his salary?

[lovuian]

32. Thats a helluva point Bambino

Ya we pay there salary...

[Crabby Appleton]

56. Rule 53 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure

prohibits it in Federal Courts.

TITLE 18 App. > FEDERAL > TITLE > Rule 53 Prev | Next

Rule 53. Courtroom Photographing and Broadcasting Prohibited

Except as otherwise provided by a statute or these rules, the court must not permit the taking of photographs in the courtroom during judicial proceedings or the broadcasting of judicial proceedings from the courtroom.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18a/usc_sec_18a_03000053----000-.html

[lovuian]

65. No exceptions Dang List of traitors from history

John Brown, convicted of treason against the state of Virginia
Iva Toguri D'Aquino, who is frequently identified with "Tokyo Rose." Subsequently pardoned by President Ford.
Governor Thomas Dorr 1844, convicted of treason against the state of Rhode Island; see Dorr Rebellion
Mildred Gillars, "Axis Sally"
Hans Max Haupt, convicted of treason and sentenced to life in prison for aiding his son who was a spy for Germany during the Second World War
Tomoya Kawakita, sentenced to death for treason, but eventually pardoned by President Kennedy and deported to Japan
Martin James Monti, USAAF pilot, convicted of treason for defecting to the Waffen SS in 1944.

I'll add Benedict Arnold
and wasn't there Rosenburgs ???

[MonkeyFunk]

70. I believe

the Rosenbergs were tried for espionage, not treason.

Treason is a VERY difficult charge to bring, and probably can only occur during wartime.

[lovuian]

75. Aren't we at War???

like the Prez declared Iraq War and War on Terrorism???

Were they hung for espionage???

[Garbo 2004]

76. Electrocuted. n/t

[lovuian]

78. I don't know whats freakin worse Hangin or Electrocuted

if agents have died because Plame was outed don't they deserve justice for murder

???

[MonkeyFunk]

80. Technically

we are not at war. Haven't been since 1945.

But doing something that hurts the country isn't necessarily treason. It involves taking up arms against the country, or adhering to its enemies, giving them aid and comfort.

Even John Walker Lindh wasn't charged with treason.

[Pithy Cherub]

79. Would love to have seen it on My TV

and all I get are those charcoal drawings. Love emptywheel's descriptive narrative though down to water and puters not mixing followed by nervous habits to the sartorial splendor sported by the guys in their neckwear.

[Missy Vixen]

84. Pithy Cherub, I especially enjoyed her descriptions of

today's word war between Patrick Fitzgerald and Mr. Wells.

>Love emptywheel's descriptive narrative though down to water and puters not mixing followed by nervous habits to the sartorial splendor sported by the guys in their neckwear.<

She even went so far as a painstaking description of PF's pacing in front of the lectern, arms folded and looking down, as he donned his "game face" before making his opening statement.

Julie

[lovuian]

85. Thank goodness for Bloggers and the Guardian

or I'd be shut out of the news

TV coverage sucks

This is such a sad page in our history

[frogcycle]

87. wall to wall coverage of oj

was oh-so-much more critical to the national interest

and that nutcase nancy grace would rather harp on the duke rape case or whatever