Country's Toughest Smoking Ban - not even in own yard if it blows onto neighbor property

[The Straight Story]

Country's Toughest Smoking Ban May Become Law in Northern California City

The city of Belmont is about to consider the strictest non-smoking ordinance in the U.S.

The proposal before the city council would outlaw smoking almost everywhere in the city with the exception of detached single family homes. Even then it would only be allowed if smoke did not blow onto a neighbor's property.

"I get calls almost everyday from people living in multi-unit housing situations where they're being exposed to drifting second hand smoke," said Public Health Institute attorney Robin Salsburg who helped draft the Belmont ordinance. "There really are no good laws to help them."

The proposal is controversial because it would ban smoking in apartment and condominium complexes where secondhand smoke can spread from one unit to another. The proposed ban has divided the small community.

http://www.news10.net/display_story.aspx?storyid=25446

[orleans]

1. i couldn't live there. they'd all send me packing for sure. n/t

[illinoisprogressive]

2. why don't they either make it illegal or just jail anyone who thinks of a cigarette

[The Straight Story]

5. here's what one lady said about it:

"I think it's great," said Anna Ramos, a non-smoker. "I wish they would do it in all the United States, that's what I'm hoping for."

[karlrschneider]

16. Jesus, don't give them ideas!

:eyes:

[salin]

37. When living in houses (non attached) I have never

experienced 'second hand smoke'. How does one enforce this? Require two policemen/women to go to the place of the complaint - require one to be inside one house and light a cigarette, and have the other policeman to be inside the other house to see if the cigarette smoke infiltrates the second home? And if the wind shifts does the team of policemen/women have to keep testing the "scene of the crime"? Sorry, but this borders on the absurd. I take that back - to enforce this would go full fledge into the absurd.

Go bold. Go against tobacco companies and addicted smokers and make it illegal - or limit the degree to which one regulates smoking. (I have been both a smoker and a non-smoker and as a smoker tried to be considerate and not project my habit (smoke) on others.) There does come a point where if the restrictions (fines or worse) become so ridiculous, that the country has to decide whether or not tobacco should be outlawed out right.

[Marrah_G]

3. Oooo nifty we haven't had a smoking thread in a while!

Who's making the popcorn?

[DireStrike]

7. I can't believe we'll get many people supporting this move.

It's like a slippery slope argument gone bad.

[DireStrike]

4. um, smoking is addictive

is the city going to provide places within easy walking distance of... everywhere... for smokers to go and smoke? Or are they just going to hang smokers out to dry?

[Codeine]

76. Umm, maybe they should quit. nt

[LeftishBrit]

81. Not as easy as all that!

I'm a lifelong non-smoker who feels very physically uncomfortable in a smoky environment; but for many who smoke, it's a serious addiction and very hard to break.

This rule sounds far too draconian, and will only lead to people smoking more indoors around their children. It's one thing to ban smoking in an enclosed public place where lots of people have to go; another to ban it anywhere where the smoke MIGHT possibly waft, in very diluted form, to someone else.

[Clark2008]

6. Are they going to ban cars and bleach and hairspray?

Because, each of those emits fumes that are patently unhealthy.

This is ridiculous.

[Clintonista2]

19. People dont stand around spraying hairspray on my property for hours.

That's the difference.

[Mojorabbit]

36. I say if they are going to do this then ban perfume

I get absolutely sick from some scents but I deal. This is ridiculous.

[tsuki]

74. Oh please yes. And chemically scented candles, soap powders

and dryer sheets.

[B3Nut]

80. Oh hell....

the singer in my band wears a STRONG perfume...I've gotten headaches from it, it's so stinky.

TP

[Clark2008]

43. No - but they run their cars and use bleach to clean outside.

For hours.

Hell, warming up the car in winter runs longer than someone standing there smoking.

[Dorian Gray]

60. Do they stand around, smoking cigarettes

on your property for hours? Never, in my life, have I had people standing around, blowing smoke on my property for hours. Oh, once someone was smoking out on the sidewalk, and a gust of wind blew a little into my open window. Stinky for all of 32 seconds.

If smoking is so awful, the government should just make it illegal. Until then, these laws are absolutely ridiculous.

[bbgrunt]

95. nor do they drive constantly!! (sarcasm)

[jeffrey_X]

105. People don't use bleach and hairspray in public.

Cars are a necessary part of our transportation system.

[whistle]

8. That would pretty much make smoking tobacco illegal

[Clintonista2]

9. IMO, the tougher the better.

If somebody wants to do that to themselves, go ahead.But when that crap starts blowing over to me, it is now threatening MY health.

About 10 years ago I used to always sleep with the windows in my room open. The summer breeze was wonderful.Then one day new neighbors moved in (smokers), and would sit outside at night smoking right outside my window for hours, it was disguisting. If they want to do it, they can do it on their OWN property thanks.

[Redstone]

14. Ahem. They WERE doing it on their own property, weren't they?

Redstone

[Clintonista2]

25. And it found its way onto MY property.

I'm going to find out where you live, buy the property next to you, and then stand on my lawn pissing onto yours. It's done on MY property right?

[Redstone]

32. Be my guest. Our lawn could use the ammonia as fertilizer.

Redstone

[Toots]

79. What if I stood on my property and pissed on yours..on your rose bush..

I promise I will stay on my property.....:shrug:

[newsdude]

91. Reactionary

I just quit smoking about 3 months ago.

I hope I never become one of the judgmental, righteous non-smoking freaks.

A tiny bit of smoke wafting into your yard presents NO DANGER WHATSOEVER.

Anyone who thinks they need a law to protect themselves from outdoor cigarette smoke needs to get themselves some counseling.

[Richard Steele]

101. Ever occur to you to close the window?

[Redstone]

10. Oh, give me a fucking break.

Redstone

[rurallib]

11. during the summer my neighbor sits on his porch and chain smokes

and the smoke blows right into my bedroom window. So even in those beautiful cool spring evenings I have to close my windows and turn on the air conditioner. I am extremely sensitive to the smoke.
I've asked him about it and I got a "it's a free country." Wish he'd stink up his own room and keep his cancer to himself.

[Clintonista2]

15. Hey.. story copyer!

You stole my story lol!

[DireStrike]

29. I am sorry for you guys

If I were in your situation and ever decided for some reason I had nothing left to live for, I wouldn't leave this earth before committing great atrocities to those people. In fact, give me their names and I'll keep them in mind anyway.

But ultra-authoritarian laws are not the answer. You can't restrict thousands of people's freedom just to solve a handful of problems. Even if the problems happen to be quite bad for the people involved.

I think your problems are more that you have assholes for neighbors, rather than smokers. Too bad we can't outlaw that.

[Clintonista2]

31. My right to breath clean air is being restricted. nt.

[DireStrike]

35. then go outside or something

or move. Or harass the guy every single day until he leaves.

Seriously, if it's that big a problem I would be out there every day fucking with him in semi-illegal ways CONSTANTLY.

[Clintonista2]

40. Great idea, I'll go outside with 1000 other smokers hanging around.

Then I can step on the nice array of 10,000 ciggarette butts lying on the sidewalk, as I inhale fresh toxic fumes.

[DireStrike]

42. sounds to me like you're in the wrong neighborhood

I live in nyc and I've never seen any area remotely that bad.

[NashVegas]

87. Then You Maybe Should Move to the Arctic Circle

Where you're not likely to encounter many automobile fumes or factory pollution.

[dogday]

93. Bubble Boy

:rofl:

[Redstone]

18. "...my neighbor sits on HIS porch..." His porch. Not yours.

Redstone

[lvx35]

22. And polutes the the air in the POSTER's room. NOT HIS OWN. nt

[Redstone]

24. It's still HIS porch.

Redstone

[lvx35]

28. Its still HIS air. nt

[Redstone]

33. Invoking Redstone's Rule #3: Never argue with someone who has the same answer

for every question.

See ya.

Redstone

[Clintonista2]

52. You just broke Redstone rule#1

Never post anything other than "redstone" in the body of your post.

[Redstone]

53. No, Redstone's rule #1 is to never argue with a bitter person. Jealous, much?

Or do you have some kind of personal beef with me? If so, you are more than welcome to employ DU's "ignore" feature.

If not, snipe away. I've dealt with any number of people who haven't the guts to do anything but attempt to engage in illogical personal attacks on me, for whatever reason. I don't care what your reason is. Keep it up or don't, I don't care.

Redstone

[Redstone]

63. Well, well, here you wanted to turn this into a personal attack, and when I reply, what do you do?

You disappear. How many times have I seen THAT before?

Plus, you're wrong in your pissant assertion anyway: I always captialize the "R" in "Redstone."

Redstone

[Skittles]

77. hey R, I quit smoking some time ago

but I swear some of these rabids make me want to light up and blow smoke right in their face

[Clintonista2]

96. Oh christ, it was a joke

Sensitive much?

[Redstone]

100. Oops.

Redstone

[karlrschneider]

21. Does he have a car? Do YOU have one?

Some people really reach for something to bitch about.

[Redstone]

39. They WILL do that, won't they? My neighbor warms up his SUV for 10 minutes every

morning, NOT TO MENTION standing on his front steps and smoking an EVIL CIG while I'm taking the puppy out for her morning business across the street near the swamp.

But if I sue him for warming up his EVIL SUV and smoking his EVIL CIG, would he countersue me for letting my puppy take an EVIL SHIT across the street from his house?

It could happen.

Redstone

[DireStrike]

45. Your puppy? Aren't you just shifting the blame?

I'd bet you dollars to donuts that YOU have been to the john in the last day or two! It has to go somewhere, not to mention the chance that you are one of those members of the population who produces METHANE, a GREENHOUSE GAS in his intestines!

No, take responsibility, Redstone! It's people like you constantly muddying the waters who are helping the corporate overlords fill our planet with FILTH! When will you join us in creating a world without excretion?

[Redstone]

47. I would if I could, but I can't. In fact, I just contributed to the methane problem. Couldn't help

it; we had chili (with beans) for dinner tonight.

...Now I get it! let's BAN THOSE BEANS!

Redstone

[karlrschneider]

48. Well, "we" (Americans) are conditioned to sue for every little petty thing

that offends us. If your puppy shits on HIS castle's property, some ambulance-chasing lawyer will encourage him to sue you. Maybe even on contingency. With a nominal retainer, probably. Across the street is a little dicey but there's probably some barrister who'd be willing to give it a shot. :eyes:

[Redstone]

58. Fortunately, the guy next door and I drink beer together (though I suppose our belches

contributes to Global Warming in some way). So he lets the delicate scent of the Puppy Poop slide, and I allow him his noxious Tailpipe Emissions.

Good diplomacy, yes?

Redstone

[karlrschneider]

64. Diplomacy is the art of argument that ends with both parties thinking they won.

:D

[Redstone]

65. Hey, we both get to drink beer. If THAT ain't winning, I don't know what is.

Redstone

[karlrschneider]

66. It's the BEST!

:rofl: :D

[devilgrrl]

12. I wish they would do that with vehicle exhaust...

there's nothing more annoying that eating outside only to be interrupted by an idling bus or truck spewing exhaust fumes so toxic I think I'm about to pass out.

[karlrschneider]

13. And those SUVs that belch out the equivalent of 10000 smokers?

Do they get a free pass?

:grr: :mad: :puke:

[lvx35]

17. More punishing the victims of a disease.

That'll help. Hey, maybe we should ban breast cancer in public places in CA too... that'll bring the statewide numbers down. :sarcasm:

seriously, if the state did more to help smokers quit and less to punish them, things would be a lot better.

[LeftishBrit]

82. Great post!

[Occulus]

97. It's even worse in MI

Here, they fund some public programs with tobacco taxes. Yeah, that's brilliant- let's make the money for the needed programs off the sale of a product we'd really rather not see people use in the first place.

Sheesh.

[magellan]

20. Are they going to ban the neighbor's smoking grill, too?

How about those with fireplaces? Or enforcing the ban on fireworks -- they're going off all the time here, and the bottle rockets could land in my yard or on my roof and start a fire, never mind they put out a lot of offensive smoke.

[Greybnk48]

26. I was wondering about grills also, and lawnmowers

that spew blue smoke. This is ridiculous.

[magellan]

38. Oh yes, the lawnmowers! And the gas strimmers!

Not that I think banning those things isn't a good idea -- gas lawnmowers and strimmers undoubtedly affect many more people at a time than 2nd hand smoke and also contribute to global warming -- but if they're going to ban smoking on one's own property due to 'wafting' then they'd damn well better show they're serious about protecting people and ban everything that pollutes our air.

This ban is just cheap hypocrisy otherwise.

[Raksha]

23. That is just ridiculous.

My first EVER post on a smoking thread--that's one DU topic I tend to avoid!

[Kingshakabobo]

27. I think this should be handled by the condominium associations and landlords..

....not the government.

That said, I sure am glad we don't have any smokers in our building - specifically below me. I live in a 100 year old building with almost zero insulation between floors. My neighbor's brother was visiting a few weeks ago when it was freezing cold outside. He smoked inside and we could smell it. It would suck if we had an inside smoker below us but we could handle it without the government as our neighbors have always been cool.

[Diane R]

30. Fabulous. I hope this is copied in other cities...especially mine.

[karlrschneider]

50. It's interesting how some people will support this and ignore the tons of

CO2 and CO from all the cars that drive by every day.

[Diane R]

106. I hope you're not responding to me. I volunteered (full time) for 9 years on clean air issues.

[dysfunctional press]

34. what about people who barbeque or grill outside...?

or people who burn wood in their fireplace...?

or drive their fucking cars, for christ sake.

i am NOT a tobacco smoker- but this anti-smoking fascism is getting WAY out of hand.

[Redstone]

41. You and I have disagreed in the past, but we agree on this one.

Redstone

[Homer Wells]

44. I recommend that ALL the smokers

in that city and all who want to protest this asinine law IMMEDIATELY go to Belmont and light up. Forcing the local police to arrest so many people, while tying them up from fighting REAL crime, would surely open up the peoples eyes as to the downright SILLINESS of this legislation,(not to mention the fun we could have with it here at DU)!!!!

:evilgrin:

[Bake]

88. Let me know when that's gonna happen

I've got some, uh, "shopping" to do ...

Bake

[nookiemonster]

46. Nonsmokers, here's an easy solution:

WHY DON'T YOU JUST BAN IT!!!!! Quit bitching about smokers, and just have it banned. When it's banned, don't bitch about the missing sin taxes. Is that ok?

The habit will wane, and I assure you that I'm not going to wait for the call from my hookup to score some "Marlboros", LOL.

So many other real issues to bitch about, and it comes to this. Jeez............


;(

[Redstone]

49. Yes, and that would work about as well as the ban on Mairhoochie; you know my hippie neighbors

are always smokin that Evil Weed on their porch, and the smoke drifts by and I get STONED, officer, I really didn't mean to, but they MADE me do it with their secondhand illicit drugs...

Redstone

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

51. Some People Are Just Simply Batshit Insane And Should Never Be Allowed To Legislate.

This is the most pathetic, misguided and disgraceful attempted display at control I've ever seen within a state level. The level of ignorance is astounding. Absolutely astounding.

[BlackVelvet04]

56. And that's really what it is about for most non-smokers.....

CONTROL.

I had a now ex sister-in-law pull the "could you please not smoke in YOUR house when I'm here, I'm sensitive to it."

Not so sensitive she didn't want her free vacation at the beach.

I told her there was a hotel down the street with non-smoking rooms. She wasn't so worried about her health that she left. And she wasn't too sensitive to smoke to sit in a bar for hours while she carried on an affair.

[Occulus]

98. I've lost count completely of the number of "sensitive" or "asthmatic" non-smokers I've met who

seem to be able to spend hours in a smoke-filled bar.

It's happened so many times I generally take that line as a total cop-out. It's even funnier when they say they're "allergic", since smoke is an irritant, not an allergen.

If non-smokers just don't like it, I really think they need to just say so instead of making shit up. Lying about it only makes me want to blow it right on them.

[BlackVelvet04]

99. At one time I went to

Al-Anon meetings and after about 8 months one woman decided she was allergic to smoke and wanted the group to become a non-smoking group. There were 3 or 4 other non-smoking meetings available to her but NOOOOOO she wanted this group to also be non-smoking. The "group conscience" decided that she needed to find herself another group. It was all about her wanting control.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

103. I'm not lying. It makes me sick due to the snowball effect of the irritation.

And yes it is an irritant.

I have had to stop being friends with smokers. If I go to their house, and they are smoking, within 48 hours, without fail, the irritation will make a good environment for infectious germs, and I will get a sinus infection which will drain into bronchitis.

I've also been in houses stuffed with useless junk and dust that have made me sick, so I start barfing until I'm dehydrated, which means a trip to the ER for shots of cortisone, antibiotics and an anti-barf medication.

And I don't hang out in bars, either.

If I'm driving, and the person in front of me is smoking in their car, I can smell it as it is sucked into my car's A.C. system.

Why don't those people get a patch when they are around those of us that get sick? Or quit?

Both my parents were heavy smokers when I was little and they both quit cold turkey. This was long before they had nicotine patches or anything to help people. By the way, I have scar tissue in my lungs from their smoking and other assorted sources of pollution.

[mmonk]

54. I couldn't live there

and wouldn't want to. That's the definition of radical anal retentive.

[AlCzervik]

55. i don't want to live in a city that is that restrictive.

[burrowowl]

57. and don't let your car emmissions blow anywhere

and in New Mexico our polluting coal-fired power plants send electricity to California. I am sick and tired of California being a bit hypocritical. Your state's power plants can pollute your state and we buy from you because it doesn't pollute California. If they buy NM power, they should make sure our plants don't send mercury into the air posioning our lakes and rivers and doing in the Native Americans whose land is being raped!

:mad: :puke: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Redstone]

61. Not to mention all the Black Mesa coal that gets burned to supply California.

Redstone

[piedmont]

59. I have to say, if I had to smell my neighbors' smoke in MY yard, I'd be pissed off too.

One person's rights end where another's begin. My neighbors can't dump their trash on my lawn, so why should anyone be able to dump their second-hand smoke on my property?

[newsdude]

92. What if I don't like the way your barbecue smells?

Then what, smart guy?

[MazeRat7]

62. And they plan to enforce / prove violations how ? -nt

[Book Lover]

67. Here is my favorite SFGate comment

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/nwzchik/detail?blogid=32&entry_id=14366

It is amazing that some people think it would be ok for the government to ban smoking in PRIVATE residences, yet think it is totally unacceptable for the government to decide what should happen in a persons bedroom....

and the article itself is here
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/03/13/MNGRHOK7RS1.DTL

[piedmont]

71. Well, we ban all sorts of activities in private residences.

If it's a hazard or nuisance for people beyond the borders of you property, it's stepping on someone else's rights.

Although it seems like this would be better solved by an ordinance similar to noise ordinances, whereb you could smoke provided it doesn't cause a problem for neighbors.

[ComerPerro]

68. wonder how they feel about grilling. But there is something smokers can do about this

build a weather machine!

[LeftyMom]

69. Wonderful. My very sick aunt lives in a condo in Belmont.

If that passes there's one less thing to worry about with her health.

[Sin]

70. O If lived there.

The Very next day that law came into effect and I had Neighbors that reported me id go out and buy 2 or 4 yard torches empty them out and fill them with half dirty motor oil and half diesel fuel
light them up and click on a fan. :)

If the cops come again I'm just keeping the annoying pests away theres no laws against that. :)

[Norquist Nemesis]

84. I'd burn incense

The really stinky kind!

[Twist_U_Up]

72. What next BBQs ?

[The Straight Story]

73. Yep - especially if there is meat on the BBQ and not veggies

:rofl:

[Withywindle]

75. Oh no, no class bias HERE at all...

The proposal before the city council would outlaw smoking almost everywhere in the city with the exception of detached single family homes.

Hey y'all fellow smokers who can afford a detached single family home, can I come over and visit every two hours or so? :evilgrin:

[fed-up]

78. and cars don't pollute??-"Prohibits smoking in cars used in employment, including taxis." nt

[johnnie]

83. I would call and complain at every BBQ

Every time someone lit up their grill, I would call and have it shut down for having their carcinogens floating into my yard.

[ScreamingMeemie]

85. ...

:applause:

[Beelzebud]

86. But not a word about toxic emissions from big industry. Just fuck over the little people!

[gollygee]

89. If smoking is legal, they should be able to do it on their own property

I have a neighbor who heats his house with a wood stove. I hate this wood stove. It stinks. However, it's his property and it's legal.

Trust me, it creates more smoke than a cigarette.

[sakabatou]

90. That's extremely wrong

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY

[bbgrunt]

94. this law is total insanity and an indication of how irrational

people in this country have become. They are more fanatic than the hardest core neocon. I give up. People on both the right and left have lost their marbles.

[ends_dont_justify]

102. Sounds great

Let's start with our 'big' neighbors



Then by the time they're all cleaned up we can say "You know, if you don't like your neighbors then move" to all the smoking naysayers and gut the bill ;) My neighbors personally have raging bonfires in the summer. You know, I got used to the smell. Kinda like it now actually, it takes tolerance to survive on planet earth.

[The Straight Story]

104. I have fires almost nightly in the spring/summer

and i smoke.

damn me to hell anyway.

guess I am a 'Sinner' to some people and need to be saved.

And they bash christians. :rofl: