Need help debunking the fact that Plame was not a covert agent

[BushOut06]

One of the RW talking points that I keep running into is that Valerie Plame was not a covert agent at the time her name was leaked, and therefore no crime was committed. They claim that she was working at Langley, that she was no longer a field operative, blah blah blah. They point to the fact that nobody has been charged with a crime as their proof. Nevermind the fact that the CIA requested an investigation into her outing, and that the investigation was ongoing when Scooter Libby lied through his teeth. Is there anything else I can use to point out that yes, in fact, she was a covert agent? I would think that just because one isn't actively working in the field, doesn't mean that one can't still be considered a covert agent.

[NewJeffCT]

1. Here you go

This is by Michael Isikoff of Newsweek, who is certainly no friend to Democrats and liberals.

The CIA Leak: Plame Was Still Covert

Newsweek
Feb. 13, 2006 issue - Newly released court papers could put holes in the defense of Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby, in the Valerie Plame leak case. Lawyers for Libby, and White House allies, have repeatedly questioned whether Plame, the wife of White House critic Joe Wilson, really had covert status when she was outed to the media in July 2003. But special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald found that Plame had indeed done "covert work overseas" on counterproliferation matters in the

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11179719/site/newsweek/

[BushOut06]

2. Thanks

n/t

[Igel]

15. The problem with the prosecutor's document is

that it's the prosecutor's document.

Everything in it needs to be proven to a jury; it's not taken as fact.

A second, unrelated, problem is the definition of 'covert'. For the law that Fitzgerald was most likely dealing with the word has a very precise meaning. Fitzgerald didn't prove that he used the word with that meaning, nor did he even claim he used the word with that meaning.

[lisa58]

3. It was in the Libby indictment...

Page 3 Paragraph f

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/osc/documents/libby_indictment_28102005.pdf

[BOSSHOG]

4. Probably not much help here but

- How do right wing yahoos know who is or is not covert?
- If she wasn't covert, why the NEED to expose her identity?
- If there were no underlying crime why did libby HAVE to lie?

I read a rather long, yet easily understood explanation of her undercover status; don't recall where. Maybe Wilson's book, The Politics of Truth.

The people you are dealing with have no desire to know the truth. They are too ignorant, too proud to admit they have been wrong and in fact their actions have enabled treasonous behavior. Don't expect a fake patriot flag waver to pony up with a confession. They are much happier living with a lie. Way deep in their heads, they know they are supporting the deaths of our kids based on a lie and being good conservatives they won't take responsibility for that dirty deed or any other. Just ask the above questions, then terminate the conversation.

Her covertness was not an issue in libby's trial. He committed perjury and obstruction of justice. He's a conservative, ergo a liar and a criminal.

[Mist]

9. Right, BOSS--no need to leak her name if she's not covert. Also, ask any still

putting this deranged "talking point" out there (that Plame wasn't covert) just why the CIA brought the lawsuit. The CIA was quite certain that she was covert.

[Robbien]

5. If a person is still using the meme Plame was not covert

then that person is a die-hard GOPer and will not hear anything anyone has to say to the contrary. Heck, we could put Cheney in jail for outing a covert agent and that person would say Cheney was falsely jailed because Plame was not covert.

[BOSSHOG]

6. Some of these same kind of humans

are starting to come around to the notion that the earth is round and revolves around the sun. They live in the land of the free and think they are free to believe whatever they want regardless of the consequences. Idiots, pure and simple.

[matt007]

7. Cover Status

Anyone who for the CIA overseas (OCONUS) is doing covert work. All countries have anti-espionage laws. By simply being a CIA officer overseas you are breaking another country's law. Therefore you must be covert. Either an official or non offical cover.

If you want more clarification email me

[BOSSHOG]

10. Hello Matt007 and welcome

We live about 50 miles from the Big Easy and get down every couple of weeks. Heading there this weekend for some OVERT St Patty's Dad Partying.

[blondie58]

11. welcome, Matt007!

[matt007]

17. Hi Blondie Hi Boss Hog

Yea Boss I'm pretty far away from there now. Dunno If I'll move back or not. The place has gone to hell. But hey, the big easy is definately a good place to spend a week partying.

[Virginian]

21. Matt007, Welcome to DU!

:hi:

:yourock:

[Ian David]

8. Vallerie Plame and "Non-Official Cover" (NOC)

Remember the movie "Mission: Impossible"?

Remember the little room with the computer surrounded by all the elaborate security measures?

Do you remember what was in that computer that Tom Cruise wanted to steal?

That computer contained "The NOC List." The list of agents under Non-Official Cover.

Dick Cheney handed over information to the press that Tom Cruise would have had to crawl through the ventilation shaft and hang from the ceiling to get out of the super-secret computer room.

Yes, I know such a room probably doesn't exist.

But using the fictional movie as a metaphor conveys the proper picture of just how serious a security breach Cheney's real-life actions were.


Ahh... here it is... Valerie Plame... Brewster Jennings... Chuck Barris? Oh, Robert Novak is gonna LOVE this!

[matt007]

19. Fortunately Tom Cruise isnt a case officer

Yea they use Non official cover now more often because of increacing international buisness ties, ect. Official cover usually involved a cover job at an embassy or acting as a DoD employee overseas.

[tanyev]

12. Don't forget it was also revealed that Brewster-Jennings was a CIA front.

An even more chilling aspect of the case that hasn't gotten anywhere near the attention it should.

[mod mom]

13. Best link I've found (Waxman's Committee):

Friday, July 22, 2005
Disclosure of CIA Agent Identity
Former Intelligence Officials Testify About Damage Caused by Outing of Covert CIA Agent
At a hearing co-chaired by Rep. Waxman and Senator Byron Dorgan, several former intelligence officials testify about the damage to national security caused by the White House outing of covert CIA official Valerie Plame Wilson.

Documents and Links
Rep. Waxman's Opening Statement
Rep. Waxman's Opening Statement


Rep. Holt's Opening Statement
Rep. Slaughter's Opening Statement
Sen. Dorgan's Opening Statement
Statement of James Marcinkowski
Statement of Larry C. Johnson
Statement of W. Patrick Lang
Witness Biographies
Fact Sheet: Administration Security Breaches Involving Valerie Plame Wilson
Fact Sheet: Karl Rove’s Nondisclosure Agreement
Hearing Transcript
C-SPAN Hearing Video

http://oversight.house.gov/story.asp?ID=898&Issue=Disclosure+of+CIA+Agent+Identity

[mod mom]

22. Jim Marcinkowski (from the link:)

Statement of Jim Marcinkowski
July 22, 2005

The undisputed fact is that we have irreparably damaged our capability to collect human intelligence and thereby
significantly diminished our capability to protect the American people.

[WinkyDink]

14. She was in the U.S., but her status had not been changed, IIRC.

Even James Bond returned to England.

[BushOut06]

16. Sometimes you just have to laugh at Right-Wing logic

I found this little gem that some *-backer posted on a blog:

Republicans want a closed session because the CIA is trying to restrict what Plame is allowed to answer. In other words, they will allow her to answer only that which will support the dems.

So in other words, the entire CIA is part of this left-wing conspiracy!

[alcibiades_mystery]

18. It is NOT a fact that Plame was not a covert agent

Your first step is to understand what YOU yourself are saying.

[MiniMe]

20. Why was the CIA so angry at her outing, and why did they demand

an investigation if she wasn't covert? IIRC, the CIA was livid over the outing. There would be no need to be that outraged if she wasn't covert.

[UTUSN]

23. A-hole Stuart TAYLOR surfaced on sL-IMUS, spouting the whole wingnut scenario

Rehashing the entire Niger thing, but with that special wingnut spin--that it was PLAME who sent WILSON, who was "not qualified" and only drank green tea with buddies, that Niger only has two products--"goats and there are plenty of goats in Iraq--and uranium,"---that there was a trade mission from Iraq in Niger TWO(2) years before.

At least sL-IMUS----who will say ANYTHING just for kicks, not that he has ANY conviction---brought up something from Roling Stone: "If it was just a nepotism thing, Niger is not exactly like vacationing at St Bart's..."

Anyway, this TAYLOR creep was chugging KoolAid.

[peacetalksforall]

24. Maybe it isn't worth it to try to convince anyone who can't use their

head. The Justice Dept approved the Special Investigation into the leak with full leeway to the Attorney assigned to go in any direction it led. The crime of leaking was the original and only motivating factor behind the investigation. The Justice Dept allowed the investigation to go forward. Testimony was taken from Pres, VP, and innumerable high officials. If all these people could prove that she was not an operative, they would never have testified or appeared in front of the Grand Jury (some many times). This administration would have fought like hell if she had not been covert.

If aperson's head has been turned around by propagandists to the point where they can't think for themselves, they may be hopeless.