My Ex-White Supremacist Friend.

[skypilot]

I just found out that a guy I've known for years (and haven't seen in a few years) used to be a white supremacist. I ran into him last night at my favorite watering hole which is also where I first met him. He was showing me some of his new tattoos and he got to one that he said was covering up and old tattoo. At the moment I can't remember exactly what he said the old tattoo image was but I do remember him explaining that it was a white supremacist thing and that's why he had it covered up. Let me say right here that I am a black, gay man and I met this guy almost ten years ago in this same bar. He was sitting next to me tapping a quarter on the bar repeatedly. It was driving me crazy and even though I didn't know him from Adam I reached over and grabbed his hand with both of mine and jokingly said "Stop that!" He laughed and we struck up a conversation. He's always been the sweetest guy as long as I've known him and he even flirts with me in his playful way (he's straight). I just felt like sharing that with you all. I guess it's just good to know that there is hope for even some of the worst people sometimes.

[Dora]

1. Thank you for the reminder.

Grace is available to us all.

I'm glad you can accept your friend for who he is, not hate him for what he was.

[grace0418]

26. Well, not ALL of you. At least not all the time. I have a very busy schedule.

;)

[Dora]

28. While you're here...

Could you save a wretch like me?

[Gormy Cuss]

34. Now that would be amazing. ; ) n/t

[grace0418]

36. It depends.

Are you lost? Blind? There's only so much I can do.

[Breeze54]

2. Your title made me look twice...

My ex-white... lol

Glad to hear that he's turned his thinking around! Nice story. ;)

[Fridays Child]

3. It could happen.

Michael Jackson is an ex-African American. ;)

[AndyA]

7. I'm confused.

I always thought Michael Jackson was Diana Ross. :rofl:

And let me just say that I LOVE Diana Ross - she is truly fabulous!

Michael, well...he used to be, but not so much anymore. He is very talented, though.

[cascadiance]

24. I think he switched to becoming Elizabeth Taylor!

:)

[youthere]

4. My favorite uncle...

was a card carrying member of the KKK (whatever that means) throughout his twenties. I remember being completely shocked when he told me about his past, and feeling very conflicted about this man I respected and admired so much.

[skypilot]

8. What's he like these days?

Is he still your favorite uncle?

[youthere]

9. Well..

He passed away three years ago, but the man I knew was always a gentle, honest and decent man. Remarkably wise and intelligent. He was someone I admired a great deal and I still strive today to be like him. I guess I make peace with the KKK involvement by knowing that he was no longer the same man he was at twenty. That he never stopped learning or growing in his lifetime. I don't know what happened to change him from the path he was on when he was in his twenties...I regret never asking.
And yeah..he's still my favorite uncle. Always will be. :hi:

[JoDog]

12. Youthful mistakes

do happen. Wanting to fit in, not having the experience to know better, lack of confidence lead a lot of people to do things they later regret. The important thing is that your uncle and the friend of the man who started this thread grew up, wised up and worked to put that past behind them. Like Sen. Robert Byrd, who was a member of the KKK in his youth. There is passage in Barack Obama's book where Byrd hints at that as his one regret, which he owes to "the foolishness of youth."

"We all have regrets, senator," Obama said. "We just ask that in the end, God's grace shines upon us." And the love you have for you late uncle shows that this did happen in his life.

[youthere]

13. I'd hate to think the person I was at 20...

would be the standard I was held to the rest of my life.

I remember a quote I heard somewhere..don't remember who..that said "I weep for the woman I was when I was 25".

[TlalocW]

11. My brother-in-law is slowly waking up

When I was younger (and he's about 18 years older than I), he would hurl around a lot of racial epithets, as that's what he was taught growing up. He wasn't malicious about it, just his way of speaking. Then one day a few years back he helped an older black man who was stalled on the side of the road get his car running again good enough for him to get home and said, "Well, it's nigger-rigged, but it will get you where you're going." He realized what he had said, was totally embarrassed and apologize profusely to the man. Since then, I don't hear any racial epithets out of him.

He said the man was cool about it, replying, "Ain't the first time I've heard it. Won't be the last."

TlalocW

[BoneDaddy]

5. Like other gangs

most of the members get into it, not cause they buy into the rhetoric 100%, but because it meets some basic need of security, connection, belonging etc.

Good to see he was able to successfully get out and is now living his life as a human being.

[skypilot]

6. That's what he said.

I don't remember the entire conversation because I'd had one too many and I was still kinda really from this new thing I'd learned about him but I do remember him saying "That wasn't really me".

[nashville_brook]

10. EVERYONE's youthful affiliations evolve --

whether it's identifying with crappy music or getting involved in a local gang.

there's exceptions -- but few kids can find their ass with a map, much less a reasonable life philosophy.

disadvantaged kids look for affiliation and exclusivity, as THEY are excluded from much of life as a result of their social/economic status. they see a group that seems to have an identity and a MAP to life, rites of passage, and they're off.

with time and experience everyone's eyes open... and that's where regret comes from...

________


this is a wonderful anecdote!

[smoogatz]

14. George W Bush is living proof (as if we needed any) that white supremacy is bullshit.

[IronLionZion]

15. Oh you'd be surprised

at who currently is or used to be racist. It was good of him to change his ways and admit it.

You don't really feel strongly about anything until it affects you personally. Some "racists" in Appalachia have never seen a non-white person in their entire lives. And some are only white supremacists because they think their jobs are in trouble. Others are just bored or lonely and want to belong to a group of some kind.

There are some very nice racists. A white girl I know informed me that she can't date me because I'm East Indian but she wants to be friends.

[skypilot]

16. "There are some very nice racists."

That has got to be one of the stranger and funnier sentences I've read on DU.:)

[IronLionZion]

23. I know some very sweet and lovable people who loathe muslims

it's deep burning hatred that existed in their cultures for hundreds of years. But they are still pretty nice to me. I'm Christian.

[NewJeffCT]

17. I knew a woman like that

She was pretty liberal in most of her political views, except that she didn't believe in inter-racial dating and rarely found non-whites physically attractive (though, she was also picky about white attractiveness, too) No real reason to her dating policy, she that she felt it was wrong.

We had gone out for a while when I found out about this (I'm white), but it was because she almost dumped me because I had told her I had dated non-white women in the past... (my dating history is as diverse as Captain Kirk's!)

[Colobo]

42. I've had some female "friends" like that...

I'm a black Puerto Rican, and I've had female friends that are very nice to me but admit they wouldn't date me because of my skin color but that they "love" me as a friend.

I'm still "friends" with them, but I do think they are closet racists. My level of respect for them went down considerably.

[Ioo]

18. Your Black AND Gay?!?!?!

At the same time?

(Just kidding, I know you did not choose to be one of those two (I am kidding there too))

That is a good story, and thank you for sharing it with me...

[skypilot]

19. Yep, Black AND Gay.

I don't believe in doing anything halfway.:)

[Marnieworld]

38. But what about religion?

Now if you were atheist you'd hit the trifecta! :D

[Kurovski]

20. K&R.

It's true. There's always hope.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

21. Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black

From Alabama. He was a member of the KKK in his youth and turned out to be a very liberal member of the Supremes.

[Marnieworld]

22. Was he ever in prison?

If you know him that well. Just a thought that sometimes in prison people join groups to survive that may not really represent him. In any case it's interesting to hear that someone can evolve that much. I would not be able to resist asking a million questions about it to him because that's a big thing but if you can keep the friendship more power to ya.

[skypilot]

30. As far as I know...

...he has never been to prison. The both of us are from Pennsylvania though. And I'm sure you've heard the description of that state:
Philadelphia in the east Pittsburgh in the west and Alabama in between. (My apologies to DUers from Alabama and the South in general.) Pennsylvania is just one of those states with a large number of white supremacist groups. I'm from Philly. He hails from central PA.

[Marnieworld]

32. I've been living in PA for 10 years

And uh, yah, it's a bit different than the Jersey I grew up in. I didn't know about the White Supremacist Groups being prevalent. Yikes! I live in NEPA about 100 miles North of Philly and 100 miles east of NY. Lots of commuters so I guess I'm not quite in "Alabama" yet. Still though, I'd be shocked to meet a former Supremacist, or current for that matter. I think it's a good sign that he told you. Maybe he wants to talk about it. Who knows? It could help both of you? :hi:

[skypilot]

35. I don't think he was ever trying to hide it from me.

I think it is just a part of his life that he has put behind him. It really only came up in the context of his showing off his tattoos. I didn't really get the sense that it was anything he wanted to dwell on. I like him the way he is now.

[eridani]

39. A very singifcant point

People of all races join race-based gangs in prison simply for protection. Not possible to stay aloof from the system unless you are in protective custody.

[Aristus]

25. Funny you should mention that, skypilot. Just this morning, I was

thinking about an old episode of ER that I like. My wife insists that Christians are always portrayed negatively on TV. I thought of this episode as a response to that accusation. It was one in which a burly, buzz-cut guy is brought in, and the doctor played by Gloria Reuben is trying to help him with a chest wound. He keeps saying "Get away from me" when she tries to take off his shirt and keeps batting her hands away. Finally in frustration, she rips his shirt off, and there on his chest is a tattoo of the red and white Maltese cross of the KKK. She is shocked for a moment. The guy's eyes fill with tears and he says: "I didn't want you to see that. That's not who I am anymore. I've given my life to Jesus, and he healed the hatred in my soul." or something like that. Very moving moment, and it reminded me of your story. I do believe that there is hope for everyone. I wouldn't be a very good Christian, or liberal for that matter, if I didn't.

Thanks for sharing, my friend! B-)

[skypilot]

31. I've watched ER only a couple of times...

...but I think I actually got a glimpse at that scene while channel surfing. I also have a bunch of old issues of Details magazine from the earlier and mid-90s (back when Details was fun) and there is an article in one of them about this sort of conversion by a young white supremacist. I still haven't read it after all these years but I think I might have to find that issue and dust it off.

[Marnieworld]

33. Ever see American History X?

Edward Norton is brilliant in it and it is a well done movie. Perhaps that's what gave me the prison idea?

[grace0418]

37. I thought the same thing!

That was a hard movie to watch, but very well done. Edward Norton was fantastic.

[grace0418]

27. Wow, that is amazing to evolve THAT much.

I mean, I was an idiot when I was young (who isn't?) but I knew better than *that* at least. But I am glad he's grown up a lot, thank goodness people can, and do, change.

[ComerPerro]

29. People can change. Look at Senator Byrd. But its an extremely rare person

who can do a 180 turnaround like that.

Good for your friend.

[happydreams]

40. Somebody tapping a quarter drives you crazy?

You need a little depth in your life person. :eyes:

[BlooInBloo]

41. Ex-white, ex-supremecist, or ex-friend?

EDIT: Trust him at your own risk.

[TheBaldyMan]

43. I found out that an old ex-friend turned into a white supremacist

I guy I'd known for years (we were at school together) and used to be an extreme left winger has transformed into a neo-nazi in the last few years.

I keep hoping that he'll come back from the dark side. He was one of the few people I knew who didn't mind talking politics all night. Over the last decade he'd become more nutty and racist. Eventually he ended up voting for the BNP. (British National Party, British fascists and white supremacists)

The last straw came just after the US army had raised it's recruitment age to 41, he was ranting about 'abduls' in Iraq and how we should kill them all. I pointed out to him that he could enlist in the US Army if he was so Gung-ho.

Neo-Nazi:"Huh? I'm too old"
Me:"No, the US Army has just raised it's age limit to 40-odd"
Neo-Nazi:"I'm not a US citizen"
Me:"No problem, I checked it out on the net, you just need a postal address inside the US"

At this point I heard his anal sphincter give way over the phone,

Me:"Hey, I have an idea. Let's both of us go down to the US consulate and enlist, I'm not asking you to join up alone. We can both join up together."
Neo-Nazi:"Erm ... only if I can join as an NCO or an officer"
Me:"WTF, you don't have any military experience! You join up as a private just like everybody else. Anyway, you're such a brown-noser you'll be an NCO before you know it"
Neo-Nazi:"But ... but ..." (sound of anal sphincter ripping)

After this there was much backtracking and he tried to turn it into a joke. Disappointed I hung up and haven't been in touch since. A shame because I'd credited him with more sense and he had been a friend for more than 20 years.

The thing that really disappointed me was that he'd turned into the sort of right winger everybody despises. The chickenhawk that loves war as long as they don't have to fight it. If that spineless article had agreed I would have joined up with him, that's the thing that really pisses me off. I hate the war and have from the start so I would have had real reservations about serving in Iraq and I was the one with the balls to join up.