Kentucky School district eliminates "D"s from grading, may now eliminate "C"s.

[TheMightyFavog]

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007703141366

EMINENCE, Ky. -- Four years ago, administrators, faculty and parents in this small, independent school district decided that a D just wasn't good enough to pass -- so they got rid of the grade.

"Getting a D is like doing the bare minimum," said Carter Martin, a middle and high school business teacher. "Life isn't like that."

It worked so well that now the district in Henry County is talking about doing away with C's too.

If the school board agrees next month, the district's roughly 300 middle and high school students will have to get at least a B to pass a class by 2009-10 -- scoring no lower than 80 percent.

I don't know about you, but I personally think this is a good thing. It's a great way to give students a real motivation to work hard.

This coming from a guy who graduated High School 57th out a a class of 72 with a 2.7 GPA (4.0 scale) because I hated homework so much.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Hey, if their grading system works, why not.

It doesn't really matter what you call things.

[Initech]

2. Sounds like the motivational school from Arrested Development:

"We don't have grades here, a student either learns and gets an "L" or they fluctuate."

"What do we get for that?"

"An F."

[etherealtruth]

17. It always warms my heart ...

... to see Arrested Development references.
:hi:

[Initech]

50. Always great to see other AD fans out there!

[The2ndWheel]

58. Children should be neither seen nor heard

[JCMach1]

3. Why not just pass/fail, or get this-- written formal evaluation (eliminate grades)

This is BS from the same people who would give you 11 on the Amp!

Changing the scale, changes the scale and the mindset... a B would no longer be a B. Instead it would be barely passing


These people are delusional!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. ZOMG! The horrors!

If they change grading systems, how will they confirm my biased opinion that Kidzdeesdays © are inferior to previous generations?

[DRoseDARs]

8. They should go all the way and just hand out stickers to everyone.

I agree, all they did was change the grading scale to the disadvantage of and fairness to the students. :thumbsdown:

[Mike Daniels]

4. When I went to Jr High/High School 1980 to 1985 (public school in Va. Beach)

Our grade scale was such that an 80 was effectively a C- and nowhere near a B.

I think it was 100 to 95 was an A

95 to 88 was a B

87 to 80 a C

79 to 75 a D

Below 75 a E/F



Given that scale I don't have too much of a problem with this concept.

[gravity]

18. 87 is a C?

Thats insane. The teachers must curve the grades a lot.

[ComerPerro]

23. I find that highly suspect. Most people see their own past through a distorted lense.

"kids these days" always have it easier.

[Mike Daniels]

48. Think what you want.

I and everyone else who went to junior high and high school in Virginia Beach during 1979 to 1985 (at minimum) worked under that grade scale.

I had some teachers in college who worked off something other than a 10 point scale.

[Mike Daniels]

47. Some may, mine didn't.

No partial credit on math work - if you got the answer wrong you lost all credit.

Words spelling incorrectly in English classes = points off the grade. My parents has a "history" teacher who took full credit off if you didn't spell the answer correctly (Moops vs. Moors?)

[Bill McBlueState]

30. it's all arbitrary

On an essay for English class, what does "80" even mean? You spelled 80 percent of the words right? Grading subjective work on a scale from zero to 100 implies a level of precision in evaluating it that doesn't exist.

For a math test, a teacher can write the questions to be difficult enough that getting half of them right really does represent outstanding work. Or the questions can be simpler, so that 90% represents outstanding work.

My point is that bin sizes for letter grades don't really tell us much about the academic rigor of an institution.

[karlrschneider]

37. When I was in junior high (I think they call it something else now), they experimented

with a new grading system:

E - excellent
G -good
M - medium (we called it mediocre)
L - little progress
U - Unsatisfactory

I think it lasted one year...

[uppityperson]

44. I had a class once that had a very odd grading scale

55-60 C
61-65 B
66-70 A
Anything over 70 and you flunked because you cheated. Scared the crap out of us at the first test but the teacher wanted to really test and see what we knew.

[Bill McBlueState]

51. interesting

That sounds a lot like the way some of my grad classes in astronomy worked. You didn't *actually* fail if you broke 70, but the exams were written in such a way that 60% was pretty good.

edit:typo

[uppityperson]

52. He figured if anyone got more than about 80%, the test was too easy

Of course he didn't tell us that first. And it was a class needed to graduate.

[deepthought42]

5. Yikes. I got good grades for the most part,

but those classes that I struggled with, and got C's...well if it were me I'd be screwed.

I'm so glad I graduated high school...lol I don't miss it. College has been much better for me. :)

[ProfessorGAC]

9. Oh That'll Happen

I was one of the brainiacs. I got out of high school a year early and went to college at 16. I liked it better there too. Much easier to control your own pace of learning. More relaxed atmosphere in the hallways and study rooms. (I went to small schools, so the lounges were study rooms.) I liked it better too.

In grad school, those were all part time, so i just went to class and then went home. No social interaction necessary.
The Professor

[deepthought42]

16. Nice. I'm starting grad school in the fall.

I'm hoping it will go well. After that...who knows?

The thought of getting an 'E' or even a 'D' was enough to motivate me, that and my parents' (lol), but everyone is different... I don't miss public school.

[ProfessorGAC]

27. Oh. I Was A Preppy

My dad was a milkman, so i'm no silverspooner, but i went to a Catholic Academy. But, religion wasn't a big thing. In fact, in my third year, the whole "religion" class was social service. Some people went to nursing homes to keep company with the elderly, some went to small grade schools to entertain the smart kids (taught them chess, or played word games) so the teacher could focus the lesson to the rest without boring the high achievers. That sort of thing.

Still couldn't wait to get out of there. I was no nerdlinger. I played in a rock band, played hoops for the school team. Still liked college better.

The Professor

[deepthought42]

32. Ah. Cool. Yes, college can be better. I got straight A's

for the first (and so far only) time in college. First two years (a community college, and a pretty good one) I got all A's and B's, because for the first time I enjoyed going to class, I looked forward to it.

There's something to be said for motivating kids to want to learn. :)

[not_a_robot]

6. haha

"I don't know about you, but I personally think this is a good thing. It's a great way to give students a real motivation to work hard."

No doubt, a kids response to obsessive authoritative assholes is always to feel motivated and work harder for them. I wonder what is being done with the staff to motivate them to 'teach better'? will they be fired if one kid flunks? People with real jobs are fired for failure you know.

[Sammy Pepys]

10. I think this is a pretty good idea overall, but....

I'm not sure I would eliminate C grades.

[RaleighNCDUer]

11. Gee, if we'd had this back when * was in school, he would have

graduated as a B student!

[majorjohn]

12. WTF?

So if a teacher doesn't want to fail a student because he thinks the student tried hard enough, that student would get a B? How's that fair?

[teenagebambam]

14. I think you need to re-read the article

As I read it, a student either gets an 80 percent, or they DO fail

[majorjohn]

28. Exactly

So what if a teacher does not think the student deserves to fail because the student "tried so hard", assuming the student initially got a 60. Then the teacher would have to change it to an 80?

[damntexdem]

13. It's total B.S.

It will either:
1) result in failing many students who otherwise would have passed without distinguishing themselves; or
2) result in downgrading Bs (and likely As), so more can get them.

It fits with the bogus "get tough" mentality so common in our society: it either victimizes many or makes any rigor impossible -- and it often does both.

Any college evaluating a graduate from the high school with a GPA of a little over 3.0 will have no way at all to gauge how good the student actually is; and I wouldn't trust a 4.0 GPA from any of their graduates.

Even a D has its place in grading.

[deepthought42]

25. It amazes me how much school has changed since I graduated..

and that was in 2000. Kids certainly have a lot more responsibility and harder requirements to graduate. My little sister goes to my high school now and she takes 8 classes a semester. When I was there it was 6. I took Geometry in 11th grade, my sister is repeating it in the 9th grade! 9th grade, and she is taking it a 2nd time??? I'm proud of her, but sometimes I wonder if it's too much sometimes... And then there's all the tests they have to take...oy! I'm glad I'm done with high school.


The idea of a B being a barely passing grade just sounds...weird. Either it will succeed or fail miserably...

There have been a couple times when I was grateful to get a 'D', lol. Only a couple, thank goodness.

[ComerPerro]

29. each divison is now seen as prep for the next step.

High school is college prep (which, yeah, 11th and 12th grade should be).

Middle school is college prep.

Elementary school is middle school prep.

Preschool is prep for Elementary, even.


Want to screw a kid up for life? Tell a 12 year old that if he gets any Cs, he will not be placed in the right classes in high school, and therefore won't be able to get into a good college, and then won't be able to find a good job, and will die young, broke and hungry and homeless and alone.

[deepthought42]

36. It's insane. I remember being told in high school...

that if we didn't take a certain literature course in 11th grade, it would affect our chances of getting into college. Well, I didn't want to read Death of a Salesman nor The Grapes of Wrath...so I said 'fuck it' and took Contemporary Voices. We read I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings, The Joy Luck Club, and my fav, we got to pick a book to read in class. Any book! I loved that class... (I read A Song for Arbonne by Guy Gavriel Kay)


and it didn't hurt my chances of going to college.


What ever happened to enjoying ones childhood?


In middle school they told us we had to take 3 or 4 years of a foreign language for college. I didn't mind, but man, talk about pressure...

[ComerPerro]

42. Part of the reason I got Bs and Cs in high school

is becasue I didn't do a lot of homework. We would be given 3 or 4 hours (total, all classes) of homework a night. And I thought it was bullshit busywork. So I did what I felt I needed to in order to learn the material, and got A's on every test

[deepthought42]

45. Most of it probably is busywork. Grades are not always accurate, that's true. n/t

[ComerPerro]

46. basically I had that theory confirmed in 11th grade, American History

she was giving the same worksheets to the AP, Honors, and Regular classes. Basically, "find the name and write it in" kinda stuff. I felt this was annoying and didn't really serve anyone, since there is no point dividing the classes up if they all get the same busywork.

[KansDem]

53. Busywork...man, do I remember "busywork"

When I was in ninth grade, I was given the assignment of giving a speech before class on the California Supreme Court (I grew up in California). Anyway, this was a government class or a civics class of some kind--I don't remember--and we all had to stand before the class and give a 15-minute speech on some aspect of California government, and I drew the Supreme Court. I thought "It's bad enough I don't know a thing about the California Supreme Court, but how do I put that lack of knowledge into a 15-minute speech? In front of my peers???"

I now see what I could have done (court's history; influential court decisions; etc) but then I panicked. 15 minutes!!! And in front of my peers!!!

So I went to the library and copied the biographies of each of the court's justices, including the court clerk. Then when it was my turn, I got up before the class and started reading the bios...veeeerry sloooowly, watching the clock the whole time. When my 15 minutes were up, I stopped reading and sat down. Needless to say, I don't think I got a very good grade.

But the point is...emphasis should have been placed on how to do such a project. From gathering information, organizing the research and modeling the final draft, the teacher should have been in on the process, offering help and expertise. Instead we got this nebulous assignment that resulted in an ambiguous speech that netted nothing except wasted time and effort.

It wasn't my favorite class and teacher...

[deepthought42]

55. I was in "Honors" Chorus...

but everyone in the Concert Choir was in the same chorus class...still, it says honors on my transcript, lol...

[TheMightyFavog]

15. IIRC, the currens system is just like the graduate programs here at UWSP.

A,B,C, F

IIRC, a grad Student is only allowed 2 Cs before they're kicked out.

[ComerPerro]

20. you can't see even a sublte difference between middle/high school and fucking GRAD school?

[ComerPerro]

19. ultimately, this will teach students that there is no difference between a C student and a burnout

I mean, Christ...

Some kids, God love em, honestly struggle to get 80%. And if you are a kid who works hard but still fails because you get a 75%, what does that teach you? All you ultimately learn is that while you were working your ass off, other kids were goofing off and having fun and cutting class. And guess what? You're gonna end up with the same grade. Failing. F. Zero grade points.

IMO, this is just as bad as "no child left behind", where grades appear to be higher on average because poor-performing students are either thrown under a bus or even encouraged to drop out.

[paparush]

21. No hil left behin

[treestar]

22. One of the teachers in my family once told of how parents

would get upset when their children got Cs.

She told them C meant average, and it meant they were learning what they were supposed to learn.

But here in the USA all children must be above average.

[ComerPerro]

26. you definately have a point

It all sounds like RW nonsense to me, the whole 79 is failing...

[Rosa Luxemburg]

54. if you compare with some other countries

we may not be that good?

[treestar]

24. They don't say in this article - do they fail or get a C?

The D has its uses. It tells you that you passed, but barely.

[ComerPerro]

31. they fail

If the school board agrees next month, the district's roughly 300 middle and high school students will have to get at least a B to pass a class by 2009-10 -- scoring no lower than 80 percent.

You get a 79, its an F, as in, not passing.

[AndreaCG]

33. I was basically an A/high B student

At a very prestigious HS, but when it came to trigonometry I barely passed. So did a lot of the kids in my class. My 78 on the Regents saved me. Some subjects are just difficult if you don't have a facility for it.

[Sapere aude]

34. Kids do not all come from the same mold. A "D" student is not necessarily some one who does not

work hard. I had trouble making C's and I worked as hard as any student. Einstein failed in school I am told.

[dsc]

35. This is just plain dumb

C means average. Average people ought to be able to pass high school. This will lead to one of two things, either massive grade inflation as teachers decide to pass people with low B's who aren't doing B work, or a massive number of failures. I guess we could also see a dumbing down of material. As a previous poster pointed out, it would be next to impossible for a college to determine who in that school was or wasn't a worthy candidate.

[dogday]

38. 2 Choices Great or Good

Can't be average or even poor at a subject.... Are we not subjecting students to impossible standards?

[ComerPerro]

49. you forgot the third choice: total failure

[Firespirit]

39. Life isn't like that... unless...

you go to work for Bushco. Then if you get 5% competence, you're beating the entire pack.

I was #1 in my class, but this really rubs me the wrong way. Motivation to work hard? Perhaps, but it could easily destroy kids who have been struggling to get the requisite C. In real life there's only so far that you can truly skew the statistical distribution of scores by means like this.

I see this as telling the kids that no matter how much they "work hard" and improve, it'll never be good enough to please TPTB. Very, very harmful.

[ComerPerro]

43. exactly right

[gatorboy]

40. Wow. What a horrible idea.

Some kids that score low in high school excel, when getting into a college atmosphere. I did LOUSE in HS but kept a steady 3.7 GPQ in college. This is going to doom kids that have potential. Not to mention, smother the school system classrooms with "flunkies".

[roamer65]

41. Great way to further drive students out of math and the sciences.

Why take hard classes when it's so much easier to get a B in "Underwater Basket Weaving 101"?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

56. Impossible to comment without knowing more.

In general, though, a more sensitive gradation system will enable you to separate the sheep from the goats more accurately.

[seabeyond]

57. sometimes a student NEEDS the "c". i hate it. i have a son, second

grade. he has a neurological issue that doctors have not been able to find out. he excels in iq, but a lot of stuff with school is his challenge. fine motor skills.... that he will work himself out of as he ages. he got a 74 in math. c... but in this school c is 75-80. i hated seeing son with a d on his report card at such a young age when he is simply learning to disconnect from hip and meet the high expectations of this school without beating himself up so much to lose all confidence that will effect the rest of his school years.

it was good enough for me as a kids growing up.... the occassional c is good enough for son. i think what we are doing with kids on the tak test and changing up the grade system is more damaging than can ever be seen as helpful. and i am all for high expectation of children. i fought to get kids in a tough tough school. two different sons, two different learning styles, two different needs. oldest..... i put more pressure on. youngest, at such a young age.... this isnt good healthy or right.