Breaking: !!NEW E-MAILS!! Show BOTH - Rove & Gonzales Had Deeper Role In U.S. Attorney Firings

[kpete]

Unreleased E-Mails Contradict White House Assertions That the Firings Originated With Harriet Miers
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=2954988&page=2

Breaking: New E-Mails Show Rove, Gonzales Had Deeper Role In U.S. Attorney Firings

ABC News reports that new emails reveal that the plan for firing U.S. Attorneys originated in the White House. Both Karl Rove and Alberto Gonzales discussed the idea of firing all 93 U.S. attorneys in early January 2005. From the article:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=2954988&page=1

New unreleased e-mails from top administration officials show the idea of firing all 93 U.S. attorneys was raised by White House adviser Karl Rove in early January 2005, indicating Rove was more involved in the plan than previously acknowledged by the White House.

The e-mails also show Attorney General Alberto Gonzales discussed the idea of firing the attorneys en masse while he was still White House counsel — weeks before he was confirmed as attorney general.

The e-mails directly contradict White House assertions that the notion originated with recently departed White House counsel Harriet Miers and was her idea alone.

UPDATE: ABC notes notes that the “latest e-mails show that Gonzales and Rove were both involved in the discussion, and neither rejected it out of hand.” That contradicts what Gonzales said during his press conference on Friday:

more at:
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/03/15/roves-role-in-purge/

UPDATE II:Schumer also revealed that the emails leaked today came from a disgruntled Bush administration official. “One of the reasons everything is getting out here is that there are people, particularly in the Justice Department, who have been so disgusted with what’s happening that information is getting out,” Schumer said. “And I think the White House and the Justice Department know it’s gonna get out whether they release it or not.”

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/03/15/schumer-gonzales-2/



edit to add:

Two independent sources in a position to know have described the contents of the e-mail exchange, which could be released as early as Friday. They put Rove at the epicenter of the imbroglio and raise questions about Gonzales' explanations of the matter....

more at:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=2954988&page=1

[Rosa Luxemburg]

1. I think we knew that!!!

all roads lead to Rove as it has been said!

[Duer 157099]

12. Can't wait for the Fall of the Rovan Empire n/t

[WinkyDink]

60. Excellent!

[BOSSHOG]

2. Of course there was no politics involved in the plan

It was just routine housecleaning. Clinton did it. He cleaned his house.

[Don Claybrook]

6. r.e. Clinton

I haven't had much time to keep up with this fast-breaking story, but yesterday I saw something somewhere in these pages saying Clinton did this. Surely not; surely I would remember this. Surely Drudge et al would remember this. What's the Clinton backstory, other than the standard Clenis blame theory?

Thanks.

[Oreo]

7. He did it right after taking office

and didn't lie about the reasoning

[robinlynne]

16. not the same thing. bush did that too. What is so different here is that they

did NOT submit the new prosecutors to the senate for confirmation! (They wouldn't have passed.)

[tblue37]

40. And the US Attorneys fired by BushCo were fired for

delving into Republican corruption and not witch hunting Dems.

[BOSSHOG]

10. Clinton and Ray-Gun and Bush

replaced all prosecutors when their administrations began. A routine and accepted practice. I believe Clinton fired one prosecutor after that. In typical right wing noise machine fashion Clinton "did not" do what bush has done. He fired eight prosecutors for purely and easily proven political reasons. The prosecutors, under the direction of the AG were ordered fired by bush solely for the benefit of the grand old party. Clinton did not do that.

[sandnsea]

19. Agreed - but

How do you figure this email about considering firing all 93 at the beginning of a new term help making the case about the eight? I think it's a massive diversion, unless the emails specifically say this would be an effective way to dump the supposed bad apples.

[JanusAscending]

28. Hi S&S !!

Ya know what I think? They figured if they got rid of all of them, they couldn't be accused of wanting any "certain" one of them out! Knowing what laws they broke, and all of the potential cases coming up against them, they wanted to stack the deck with their people. Think about the Plame case, Cunningham, Halliburton, and K Street dirt! :hi: DC

[sandnsea]

36. If the emails said this was their strategy

this was how they were going to get rid of the supposed bad apples, then I could see the benefit of making a big deal of the emails. If they say the emails are just a routine discussion, the replacement that every administration does, then I don't see their usefulness.

It's like with Plame. You give people any reason whatsoever to dismiss a claim of a crime, they will. I don't want us to get lost on this particular 93 attorney deal if people will just end up thinking that's what all Presidents do and Democrats tried to play politics. The story of the 8 prosecutors is HUGE and I don't want to lose it.

[blogslut]

51. The urgent issue

...is that Gonzo lied big-time. These emails prove that apparently. He said the idea to fire all the USAs was Harriet's. The White House (KKKarl) also said the idea was Harriet's. Gonzo said that when Harriet introduced the idea, he immediately rejected it. Well, he lied again.

Gonzo lies. The White House lies and well, when you got a bunch of liars, it's subpoena time. :)

[OnyxCollie]

79. Agreed. Some of the emails suggest having candidates lined up & ready to go.

I also believe I read that some resignations would be accepted and some would not.

[cascadiance]

33. The difference is that the Patriot Act gave Bushco NEW privileges in naming their replacements!

Had they done the all 93 replacement strategy, I'm sure that would have provided earlier scrutiny to the Patriot Act modifications that happened, and perhaps put more pressure on the congress at that time to reverse it (which Republican congress critters might not have wanted to deal with). By trying to just sneak the replacements of the ones they really wanted to get rid of, they probably had counted on the complacent MSM allowing it to go under the radar.

[DarkmoonIkonoklast]

61. More frightening: with the new Supreme Court...

   ... WTP (We, The People) will have a much more difficult time getting Patriot declared unConstitutional, and we MUST at least gain that... merely repealing Patriot is not enough as any law can be re-submitted... the very CONCEPT of Patriot must be declared the unConstitutional monster it is!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

11. Did Clinton fire the judges mid term or in the 2nd term like Bush?

Only at the beginning? Am I right?

[Seabiscuit]

70. Yes. You're right. Every new president from a new party does it when they first enter office.

That's part of forming his new cabinet and new team.

Bush is the first I know of to allow his attorney general to fire U.S. Attorneys that he himself appointed, and in the middle of his second term, and for obvious political reasons that had nothing to do with job performance.

The reasons behind the firings were blatantly political in the basest sense: these U.S. Attorneys were busy prosecuting corrupt Republicans like Duke Cunningham in 2003 and 2004. Rove didn't like the fact that this made Republicans look bad, so he got a bunch of Republican Congressmen to lean on them to prosecute Democrats before the 2004 election. The U.S. Attorneys didn't do it because there was absolutely no evidence to support such prosecutions. So Rove retaliated through the Attorney General's office against 8 selected U.S. Attorneys (even Carol Lam in San Diego who successfully prosecuted Cunningham and put him behind bars).

For all we know, the probe may uncover even more scurrilous reasons behind these firings.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

74. Thanks, the reason isn't coming through in the media

The Rove spin is now "Clinton did it" and it sounds lame.

There will be a time when we won't hear from Rove again I think.

[wake.up.america]

80. as usual. they bounce around in their attempts to minimize the damage,...

Harriet M. was responsible.

Then its, "Clinton did the same."

[Rosa Luxemburg]

93. their friends in the media are helping them

[Breeze54]

25. Clinton FIRED ONE US Attorney

The others were replaced, which IS standard operation.

What these fucktards did was way beyond that!

-------------

Context: How U.S. Attorneys Are Hired and Fired

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=8356415

March 14, 2007 ·

Several U.S. attorneys fired in December testified on Capitol Hill last week that their dismissals were tied to political pressure from members of Congress and Department of Justice officials.

But the Justice Department said most of the attorneys were asked to resign because of poor job performance.

David Burnham co-directs the Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse, an organization that collects and analyzes information from the federal government. He is also the author of Above the Law: Secret Deals, Political Fixes, and Other Misadventures of the U.S. Department of Justice.

Burnham discussed the prosecutors' dismissals with Renee Montagne. Their conversation is excerpted below:

How unusual is it for a U.S. attorney to be fired?

It's very unusual. Richard Nixon fired one when he was in office. Carter fired a U.S. attorney who was making an investigation of a Democratic House member that he wanted to keep in office. Bill Clinton fired one. But it's really very rare for this to happen.

In this case it was eight attorneys.

That is close to unprecedented. … I did a book on the Justice Department, and I just have never seen something like this.

Now, that being said, when a president comes into office, historically, all the U.S. attorneys leave. And he appoints a new set of these individuals — there are about 90 of them. And… they are sort of in charge of federal enforcement in each of these districts. And they can be very powerful and influential in deciding which cases are prosecuted and which kinds of cases are not.

What seems odd to the outside observer is that these attorneys were Bush administration appointees, and they were fired mid-term.

It's very odd. And what makes it even odder is that with the data we have, you can see that the U.S. attorney in San Diego was not following the party line.

more.........

Edited to say I already :kick: & R'd! ;)

[thereismore]

38. what's the dif between firing and replacing? nt

[tanyev]

71. They serve for four year terms.

An administration often chooses to replace with someone else when an attorney's four years are up.

[gratuitous]

17. Clinton also sent all of the Bush I's cabinet packing, too!

Can you imagine? Wanting to install his own people in his cabinet, appointing his own ambassadors, naming his own U.S. Attorneys? Didn't Clinton know that those privileges are strictly reserved to the Republicans, as is the White House? The arrogance of it all.

[TwilightGardener]

3. F'in awesome...hopefully, the end for both Rove and Gonzales.

[Supersedeas]

4. we need to be ready to identify the date and subject matter of the email

[spanone]

5. Karl tried to throw Harriet Miers under a train...SOB

[kskiska]

37. Maybe Harriet volunteered to jump under the train

for the "Best President - EVER!!"

[Eric J in MN]

49. Blame the little old lady.

Americans vote for Republicans because of their fine character (sarcasm.)

[spanone]

8. Good God Almighty, How Much Will The People TAKE??????

[Rosa Luxemburg]

14. The Bush administration has been hard to get rid off

how many more scandals does it take?

[Lord Balto]

94. Well...

Some folks like it up the old wazoo. This goes hand in hand
with the authoritarian personality structure John Dean has
recently identified with the neocons. 

[senseandsensibility]

9. The story's been that Gonzalez rejected the plan

Now he didn't? You mean he flat out lied about it?

[eddy51]

20. Keep pulling the thread

Will any of the other 85 Attorneys that were approached by the admin. about a case but didn't get fired come forward? Certainly every attorney that was approached wasn't fired. How likely is that? Were these the only ones with cases against Repubs? It is almost certain that they had approached other of their appointees if they felt they could. Are there any honest Repub. appointed Attorneys out there other than the ones that were fired.

[glitch]

42. Good question and welcome to DU!

"Are there any honest Repub. appointed Attorneys out there other than the ones that were fired?"

[PinkyisBlue]

78. I think more of the US Attorneys should be subpoenaed.

They will likely not come forward of their own free will, but if forced to testify, under oath, they will hopefully be honest about how they were pressured to bring charges against Democrats and not Republicans.

[fooj]

44. Oh my. Gonzales actually LIED?

Whodathunk? :grr:

[Marnieworld]

13. Ok now my heart's all aflutter!

Gonzo too? Super. If only Bush ever did any work at all or cared enough to stay in the loop we'd have him too.

[lebkuchen]

15. I think it's past time for reasonable republicans to make their pilgrimage to the WH

to tell Bush that either he goes, or the GOP is toast.

[TwilightGardener]

23. Find some reasonable republicans...go on...I dare ya!

[lebkuchen]

29. When the time comes, I think Hagel will play Goldwater's role

Hagel is IN. McCain is OUT.

[TwilightGardener]

34. Agree with you there--Hagel is the only sane one.

[Octafish]

18. Where's monkey?

[Catherine Vincent]

21. "But Clinton did it too!"

So sayeth idiot republicans.

[JanusAscending]

22. If Gonzo" resigns"

or is fired tomorrow, or any time soon, I think Rove deserves the same thing!! They were in on it together, to cover their boss's ass. So I think we deserve a "two fer" What say you all?????:bounce: :bounce:

[bunny planet]

24. Now this is what I call a Thursday night news dump.

[jannyk]

26. I'm holding my breath

[Jack Rabbit]

27. That contradicts what Gonzales said during his press conference

. . . and that, in turn, contradicts what he told the Senate Judiciary Committee last month.

This is the operative statement. The others are inoperative,
. . . . . . . . . -- Ron Zigler, White House press secretary, April 17, 1973

[kath]

59. the old "that statement is inoperative" line (and related ones) - a real Blast From the Past!!

[Raksha]

81. "Inoperative"....ah, does that EVER bring back memories!

I was telling my son last night that he was a "Watergate baby." There I was, VERY pregnant with my first child and trying to figure out how you distinguish "false labor" from the real thing. Did it actually feel any different? Every night in those days I would watch the Watergate hearings, and I distinctly remember Ron Ziegler using the word "inoperative." I thought to myself: "Inoperative" - what a GREAT euphemism for "untrue"!

P.S. The only way you can tell false labor from the real thing is that the real thing doesn't stop. And "inoperative" is still one of the more creative euphemisms for "untrue" I've ever heard in my life.

[Major Hogwash]

30. Indict, convict, impeach!!

These guys were trying to interfere with US Justice department attorneys investigating crimes committed by REPUBLICANS!!

[thereismore]

31. I didn't think the first batch was all there was. I don't think this one is. nt

[Disturbed]

32. Calls for Gonzo resigning are not enough.

Will the Dems Impeach this AG as they should?

[Lord Balto]

95. You're right

Apparently there are folks at the Justice Dept who are so
flaming pissed off at this criminal administration that they
are going to dump all the dirt right in front of the editorial
offices of the Washington Post and dare them not to publish
it.

In short, George is cooked, plame and simple.

[cascadiance]

35. It would be interesting to know when Carol Lam switched to become an independent voter

... from being a registered Republican earlier when Bush nominated her to start with.

It would be interesting to see if that was a completely independent effort on her part for just personal reasons that was used later by Bushco as another reason for wanting to get rid of her, or if it came after she felt pressure from the bastards above and that she switched from being a Republican BECAUSE of this looming firing coming down on her!

[rateyes]

39. I just heard Rove and Gonzales whisper

oops.

[Disturbed]

41. They lie to the world even when emails exist that prove

that they are lying. Amazing!

[rateyes]

48. That's makes them pathological liars. nt

[Kingofalldems]

43. Freepers checking the fonts and such on the emails

:rofl:

[rateyes]

50. You've gotta be kidding me! What

dumbasses.

[DeadElephant_ORG]

45. "at the President's pleasure" ?!

So the Republican "talking-point" attempting to stem the tide of public outrage about the political firings of the Attorneys General is that they "serve at the pleasure of the President". Not only is that incorrect, it is treasonous.

The Attorneys General, like all constitutional officers, are sworn to defend the constitution - not to defend the President, or Karl Rove, or Alberto Gonzales, or Randall Duke Cunningham, or Tom Delay, or "Kenny boy" Lay, or Mark Foley, or Jack Abramoff, or the Republican Party. In other words, they serve us - the people - not the President. This is precisely what is meant by "a government of laws, not of men". And no man is above the law.

On no other issue - not even the policies of torture, and rampant spying - have the neoconservatives made their contempt for the rule of law, and for the citizens of this democracy, more overt than this. Unless you are among the very few who are glad to see the entire apparatus of American Justice subverted and used as a weapon against "enemies" of the Ruling Party, the time to resist is NOW.

Impeach!

[spanone]

46. How about losing Rove & Gonzo in One Fell Swoop!!! WHOPPEEE!!!!

[Eric J in MN]

47. I was skeptical that Harriet Miers came up with the idea...

...to fire all 93 assistant attorney generals, and I was right to be skeptical.

It seems to have been Karl Rove's idea.

[tanyev]

72. She was far too busy working on her George Bush scrapbook.

Me & 43 at the ranch!!! (He was so cute that day. He hardly listened to anything I told him.)

[malaise]

52. They're discussing on Hardball now n/t

Another Rethug has called for Gonz to go.

[DarkmoonIkonoklast]

53. Big shock...yeah, right!

   Since I first laid eyes on him back in '98 (during "*"'s last gubernatorial campaign), I've not been able to look at that grinning grinch without seeing horns and a tail... If ever there was a real, physical Face of Evil, it is Karl Christian Rove.
     ("Christian"! THERE's an obscene joke! Also, he was born December 25, 1950... could HE be the Anti-Christ?)
   Of course, all of the above could be no more than the maunderings of a political paranoid conspiracy geek... or the after-effects of some partially digested roast beef!

[opihimoimoi]

54. The Bells are RRRRRRinging for their resignations / jail time...

[DarkmoonIkonoklast]

57. If we can get proof against Stepford Condi...

:) :D :9

   Next item of business: does anyone here know of any additional members of the Armageddonite cabal besides Rove and Rice? I refer, of course, to the members of the Puppetmaster Cadre -- those officials, elected, appointed, or Civil Service, charged with handling "*" -- who follow the "Sacred Teachings" of the Rev John Hagee. Such need to be identified and removed from power -- either impeached, or prosecuted and fired -- and, where possible, imprisoned -- as soon as possible: preferably, beFORE they can "cleanse the World in Jay-bus' Name!"

[OnyxCollie]

82. Haven't seen Condi in a while.

Time to turn over some rocks...

[opihimoimoi]

83. George, Leave Trail Behind, Bush will soon be falling on the Sword.

He has to protect his Pub Masters.

The Pub Party is Larger than the Bush Party/////Its simple as that///

He had his opportunity only to blow it big time....

Couldn't convert a chip shot PAT...What a loser.....

They needed 4 more mega sized shredders in the East Wing.....Hmmmmmm

[BootinUp]

55. Would love a picture of Rove or Gonzalez when hearing this report. n/t

[Qutzupalotl]

56. kpete, your threads are one of the best things about DU.

You, H20man, and a few others who provide substantive posts make it worth our time to wade through all the naysayers and hit pieces. Thanks for all that you do. It does make a difference.

[bdamomma]

58. all those old sayings are coming true

every dog has its day, what goes around comes around!!

It's about time, now, let's see if Rove can weasel his way out of this.

[Blackhatjack]

62. Well this is quite a dilemma for Rove considering Fitz 'owns' him....

The agreement that Rove likely cut with Fitgerald which stopped his indictment would have a provision in it that he tell the truth about everything, and if he lies under oath in any proceeding that deal is null and void.

Rove is going to have to testify under oath if subpoenoed, and he will have to tell the truth. Boy that must be hard for him. But the consequences for telling a lie under oath are too great.

I think Rove will refuse to testify and allege he is covered by 'executive privilege' just to buy some time.

Things are moving quickly toward the 'constitutional crisis' we all expected.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

86. Thanks for that juicy detail about copping pleas.

I have a J.D., but having never practiced, I'm not hip on these details of plea bargains & Federal & Congressional things.

Got my Popcorn and Iced Tea ready and waiting!!!

:popcorn: :beer:

:bounce:

[Divine Discontent]

63. kpete you hopefully are a journalist

cause you are so good with getting this stuff put together. God bless you, again.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

75. I agree, kpete

thank you for all you do kpete

[Maestro]

64. Watch them squirm.

I wonder what they are going to say to deflect culpability.

[TankLV]

65. It takes a lot of energy to maintain a liem, or as in this case,multiple lies.

This Criminal misadministration has been nothing but one big lie from the get-go.

From the STOLEN election, to the ILLEGAL bush*/REPUKE WAR OF CHOICE BASED ON LIES, and everyting else in between.

The war is "unwinnable" because THEY started it on a lie in the first place.

The house of cards is beginning to crumble - just wish this all happened BEFORE 2004.

I will never forgive these TRAITOROUS REPUKE FUCKERS for what they have hidden and abetted...

[Sabien]

66. judicial activism

This sounds like something the right loves to accuse others of...judicial activism...that is if you don't act in our interests - you're gone. After all, you serve "at the pleasure of the president."

Apparently, "legislating from the bench" is OK if you totally control who sits there.

[Seabiscuit]

67. Rove: But...but... Clinton's penis made me do it!!!

[Seabiscuit]

68. Gonzales: But..but..Hillary twisted my arm!!!

[kath]

69. Ahhh, the Clenis. Never doubt the awesome power of the Clenis!

:-)

[Lord Balto]

97. Contradiction Junction

First they blame all their mistakes on Clinton. Then they
justify their actions by pointing to Bill Clinton, whom they
claim did the same thing, even though he didn't. So which is
it, idiots? Clinton good or Clinton bad? 

And when are you folks going to start taking responsibility
for your own actions? In short, when are you neoloons going to
grow up?

[Maddy McCall]

73. K/R

[blueseas]

76. kick

read, read, read.

[KingBob]

77. Just Waiting for the Show

I've got my popcorn and soda and recliner and waiting for the show (hearings) to begin.

[Lochloosa]

92. Welcome to DU KingBob

:toast:

[OnyxCollie]

84. "...are loyal Bushies..."

Bushies. Nazis.

Just a coincidence, I'm sure.

[Divine Discontent]

85. freudien is more like it

""Judge and I discussed briefly a couple of weeks ago," Sampson wrote, referring to Gonzales, a former Texas state Supreme Court justice. He said the Justice Department was looking at replacing "underperforming" prosecutors. "The vast majority of U.S. Attorneys, 80-85 percent, I would guess, are doing a great job, are loyal Bushies, etc., etc.," he said."

I just crack up hearing this Kyle Sampson fella tell Al Gonzo that the majority of the Atty. aren't doing a damn thing against their corporate owners, oh, sorry, I mean, are being "loyal Bushies" ------------- TOO RICH!
www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<-- top 08 designs!

[ourvoicescount]

87. Where's the flaming pants icon... ALL LIARS!

[IWantAChange]

88. Sign the DNC's FOIA request to help get to the bottom of this....

<http://www.democrats.org/page/petition/DOJFOIA>

[OnyxCollie]

89. Done. nt

[Eurobabe]

90. did yesterday, kick

[LiberalFighter]

91. Links to Email Documents

3 different sources

From House Judiciary Committee
Committee on the Judiciary 1
Committee on the Judiciary 2
Committee on the Judiciary 3
Committee on the Judiciary 4

From NY Times
NY Times 1
NY Times 2
NY Times 3
NY Times 4

From International Herald Tribune Americas
Herald Tribune 1
Herald Tribune 2
Herald Tribune 3
Herald Tribune 4

[Little Wing]

96. Fitzmas just turned into the Hannukah version, because it ain't stoppin!