Shootouts in pizza parlors, little boy found dead, severed dog head given as "gift"

[lebkuchen]

to a little girl making a valiant effort to find her lost pet. American culture has become so disgusting and degraded. No wonder the US is rated #20 of 21 on UNICEF's list of industrial countries--the second-to-the-last worst country to raise a child.

I'm so glad I live in Germany. Germans are, too, and fewer are visiting the U.S. Who can blame them.

On edit: RWers used to tell me, if I don't like living in the US, leave it. GLADLY!

[MLFerrell]

1. Any advice for an American who wants to emigrate to Europe?

Because I want to get the hell out of this madhouse.

[geardaddy]

2. Me too!

It's maddening here.

[Mr. Ected]

3. Trust Me, The Grass Is Not Necessarily Greener

Though the madness is diminished a thousand percent.

[geardaddy]

7. I dare say the grass literally IS

greener right now in Wales. ;)

To be honest, my interest in living overseas isn't because it's so maddening here, it's because I want to live in Wales, just for a few years. I enjoyed living there for three months, but I wasn't able to work.

Edited for typos

[lebkuchen]

47. Friends showed me pics of their hike in Wales

amazing scenary...not sure where they were, but the rolling hills went on and on...just gorgeous.

[geardaddy]

102. Yep. Mountains and sea where I lived...

In the Northwest of Wales.

[lebkuchen]

109. I hope I have time this summer

Last summer I was going to camp in England/Wales, but I never made it out of France...too much to see there.

[lebkuchen]

12. Trust me. It's greener.

It is so damn safe over here. and civil! That is the prime reason American military love it over here so much...they don't have to worry about their kids. Kidnappings are unheard of, murders likewise, and psychopaths dismembering pet dogs and giving them to little girls...that meanness is not part of the national psyche.

In Europe people are out in the streets, walking, riding bikes, walking their dogs (which are treated like gold), walking with their significant other, pushing baby carriages, walking w/their kids...it's a very safe outdoor environment.

Right now the trees are beginning to blossom. White and yellow blooms are coming out at the moment...beautiful tal thick-white flowery trees. After that will be the pink cherry tree blossoms, then the tulip trees, and on and on.

Now that the Germans are going to start making an attempt to go "green" with their cars, there's a chance that autobahn driving will become safer soon as well.

[lebkuchen]

4. Here's a tip I heard awhile back

Johnson & Johnson hire a lot of Americans to live in Inverness, Scotland, a small city considered the new "hot" place to live because of its wonderful lifestyle.

[Mr. Ected]

5. Ireland Is Rife With American Expats As Well

And the Irish English is a wee bit easier for a Yank to understand than the Scottish brogue, IMHO.

[lebkuchen]

14. Ireland is gorgeous country

and I enjoyed riding my bike there while touring.

Inverness has appeal to me because it has more of a cosmo atmosphere, yet is provincial. I will go there this summer, on the way to the Celtic Festival in the Hebrides, islands which are supposed to be absolutely pristine.

[Mr. Ected]

20. Shhh...Please Don't Tell Anyone

Northern Ireland is also gorgeous...and underpopulated. With all the bad press, foreigners ignore it. Not me. I'm buying a cottage on the North Sea, and retiring there someday.

[slackmaster]

24. Ireland has had a few cannibals too

http://www.irishpost.co.uk/news/story.asp?j=4973&cat=news

[Madspirit]

35. Bringing up exceptions doesn't mean a lot

Just look at the official crime stats. America is sick and twisted.
Lee

[City Lights]

26. Totally agree about NI. Absolutely gorgeous!

I'd love to go back someday and explore in more detail. :-) Ditto for Scotland.

[lebkuchen]

45. I rode my bike alone in Northern Ireland

and found it to be like Ireland w/the occasional "fuck the British" graffiti splashed here and there. The Giant's Causeway was amazing.

I want to get to know N. Ireland better. You've inspired me.

It will be easier for me to continue to live in Germany if I buy property, which is what I'm hoping to do eventually.

[Clark2008]

50. Especially if you're a "Rebel" and not a "Yank."

Our dulcet Appalachian tones came from the Irish (that's why Liam Neeson is about the only non-Southerner who actually sounds like one when he plays them in movies).

[MLFerrell]

13. Any specific field of employment?

I've got a B.A. in History, and 12 hours of Masters credit in the same. Somehow I doubt that J&J are looking for someone with my area of expertise. :)

[Mr. Ected]

17. Shared Service Centers Abound

OK, maybe not your dream job, but it's fairly easy to get hired in shared service centers for American companies doing business in Europe. Many of them set up administrative SSC's to handle finance, payroll, etc. If living abroad is what you want, that's a plan. Trust me. I'm an attorney in Georgia who just returned after 8 years in Germany and Netherlands...and worked much of the time...in a SSC. Not glamorous, not great pay...but adequate. And no one can beat the standard of living in Europe. No one.

[lebkuchen]

18. If you can read and write, you'll be fine

an American friend of mine worked for them, and she has no degree and probably no college...but she's efficient.

She had to leave because J & J don't allow workers to bring their dogs to work, and her dog was chewing on its foot while she was away.

Now she's working for another company where dogs are allowed--here in Germany.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

The Humane Assoc. is offering a $2500 reward that leads to the arrest and successful prosecution

for this truly heinous crime.

As to violence in our country. We are a nation founded on violence and have had a violent past and that energy touches our society deeply. When we are a nation that says its ok to go to war and kill others, and have state sanctioned murder, we are saying that murder on some level is fine.
There was a thread yesterday that made my blood run cold, where the OP was whooping with delight that a man who committed a horrific crime would be sent to his death. And this is from a "Liberal". Isn't it about time that we became more evolved? I think it is.

[lebkuchen]

23. Look at the US attitude toward homosexuality--very backward

and discriminating.

Countries that allow homosexuals to serve openly:

Argentina
Australia
Austria
The Bahamas
Belgium
Bulgaria
Canada
Colombia
Croatia
Czech Republic
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Germany
Hungary
Ireland
Israel
Italy
Lithuania
Luxembourg
The Netherlands
New Zealand
Norway
Peru
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Slovenia
South Africa
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Taiwan
Thailand
United Kingdom

Countries that ban homosexuals from serving openly in the military:

Brazil
Cuba
Egypt
Iran
North Korea
Philippines<2>
Saudi Arabia
Syria
United States of America
Venezuela
Yemen

[slackmaster]

65. In Before Cuba Apologists

Countries that ban homosexuals from serving openly in the military:

Brazil
Cuba
Egypt
Iran
North Korea
Philippines<2>
Saudi Arabia
Syria
United States of America
Venezuela
Yemen

:hide:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

6. Hmm, things are always superior in Germany.

:hi:

[EFerrari]

11. What if it's true?

lol

[slackmaster]

15. Yeah, especially the food - just ask Armin Meiwes

German cannibal sentenced to 8 years in prison
Last Updated: Friday, January 30, 2004 | 1:32 PM ET
CBC News

A 42-year-old German man who confessed to killing, dismembering and eating another man who he said agreed to the grisly act was sentenced to eight and a half years in prison.
A German court convicted Armin Meiwes of manslaughter on Friday, ruling he had no "base motives" in the crime and sparing him a murder conviction.

The prosecution, who had been looking for a murder conviction and a life sentence, said they would appeal the verdict.

Prosecutors had argued that Meiwes, who met his victim over the internet, was satisfying a sexual impulse.

They said he filmed himself dismembering the victim before he ate him so he could "admire himself as a human butcher."...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2004/01/30/cannibal040130.html

[Madspirit]

40. And?

Just look at the official crime stats. America is a very sick country. Anything like this story, is an exception. In America, par for the course.
Lee

[slackmaster]

44. All the stories of horrible crimes in the USA are "exceptions" too

They're local stories. Most of the country is peaceful and safe all of the time.

[gulfcoastliberal]

63. It's the media focus on personal tragedy vs substantial issues...

Either due to ratings or more nefarious reasons, our "news" has been so dumbed down that "investigative journalists" are now creeps like BO and Nancy Grace. A fucking travesty.

One thing though: at least in Europe you don't have to wonder if you'll have to work until you drop dead; your pension, health care, and education are all guaranteed. Plus way better worker rights. The 401K is the biggest scam ever. Look what happened to the workers of Chile when their gov't decided to go down that path. A fucking disaster.

[slackmaster]

76. OMG! I just heard that Anna Nicole Smith is DEAD!

Gottago, bye.

[Madspirit]

66. That is HILARIOUS.

Our crime rates are off the map. We're so nasty and violent.
Go compare our murder rates to any other country.
Lee

[slackmaster]

73. The country's overall murder rate doesn't paint an accurate picture

Murder rates in most geographic areas of the USA are on a par with England and Wales. Averaging in the cities with high crime rates (e.g. Washington, DC) makes the whole place look much worse than it really is.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The_Casual_Observer]

9. Can't blame anybody for leaving this shit hole.

If I were a little younger & less encumbered I'd leave too. It's all about SUV's, football, gated communities and spending money.

[melody]

16. In which America do you people live?

Clearly not in mine. The people I know are focused on saving the planet, helping people, and putting an end to war. I don't even know of any "gated communities" in my parts.

My home is not a "shit hole" -- it is the only ethnicity I have. My people came here 350 years ago from Great Britain. I prefer to stay and fight for the people here, not abandon them.

[geardaddy]

25. I believe you mean nationality.

"American" is not an ethnicity.

And I do agree with some of what you said as far as the "the same shit happens there." Though, I don't think some of the people here who want to move to Europe are doing so because they want to "abandon the people."

[melody]

29. I'm an anthropologist -- "American" is as much an ethnicity as any other

Ethnicity isn't a matter of melanin in skin or cultural variation. We are our
own ethnicity -- particularly people like me whose people have lived here for 350
years. We are one ethnic group through cultural ties.

I think the people who want to move to Europe are wanting to move to Europe. I
think the people who are saying "I'm leaving this shithole" are abandoning their
people.

[geardaddy]

62. Wow! You're 350 years old?

Amazing.

Right, one ethnic group. That's why get along with each other so well, because we all have the same cultural ties.

[melody]

69. My ancestral line is, yes -- now try addressing my arguments and not throwing spit wads?

We are one ethnic group -- and we get along about as well as any one ethnic group.

[geardaddy]

90. Whatever.

Enjoy yourself and your outrage.

[melody]

106. I'm always outraged by bigots

Be they right-wing Francophobes who hate the French or the left-wing American haters,
or those in between.

[geardaddy]

92. What arguments?

You argue that we're one ethnicity. I argue that we're not, based on the fact that we're a nation of IMMIGRANTS. I know the majority were born here, but you tell that to the German here who has never been to Germany and hates the Norgwegian here who has never been to Norway, just because he's different.

IS that a spit wad?

[melody]

You can't change the definition of a word

Yes, we are one ethnicity. You may not like that fact, but we are.
Native Americans are seen as one ethnicity and we actually are many
different nations. You can draw a line anywhere you like.

We are regarded as one ethnicity.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

108. The definition of the word...

ethnicity <(eth-nis-uh-tee)>

Identity with or membership in a particular racial, national, or cultural group and observance of that group's customs, beliefs, and language.

Note: Many minority groups in the United States maintain strong ethnic identity; especially in cities, immigrants are often attracted to ethnic communities established by people from their own country, communities in which many traditional cultural features are maintained. (See melting pot.)

Well, look at that. Not only does america have many ethnicities, it's used as a textbook example.

(Unless, I suppose, you consider that those people aren't really Americans.)

:shrug:

[melody]

112. Oh, please ...

Just can't take it that I revealed to you that hatred of Americans is bigotry.

You're trying to see bigotry in my comments through a disingenuous attempt to get
around your own.

Read your own definition -- *national*, or cultural group and observance of that group's customs, beliefs, and language.

You can have more than one ethnicity. We aren't confined to one. You're not compelled to be
German because you want to see it that way. You are also American (perish the thought!).

Incidentally, here's a quote from the deeply bigoted Fred Phelps -- the way you see the ignorance
of an assertion is to mirror it in another form. Take Fred Phelps' moronic quote and replace it
with "Americans" ... it sounds like every other post in this thread. YOU guys think like Fred does.

Fred:
"I hate the fag culture. It is rife with pedophilia, it is
the seat of all cultural failures, it has debased and
demoralized us all." Fred Phelps

This thread:
"I hate the American culture. It is rife with violence, it is
the seat of all cultural failures, it has debased and
demoralized us all."

You all have more in common with Fred Phelps than I do.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

119. I thought you said you'd put me on ignore?

Anyway...

"Just can't take it that I revealed to you that hatred of Americans is bigotry."

What hatred? Since when did valid complaints about America's out of control crime problems, and low quality of life equate to hating Americans? In fact, I'm pretty sure that everybody in here is an American. Is this just the rehashing of the classic "why do you hate America?" argument that freepers use when they lose arguments?

"You're trying to see bigotry in my comments through a disingenuous attempt to get
around your own. "

I'm not trying to see bigotry, just innanity. And I haven't got to look hard.

"Read your own definition -- *national*, or cultural group and observance of that group's customs, beliefs, and language."

Referring to "nation: an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family, often speaking the same language or cognate languages"

as opposed to "state: the territory, or one of the territories, of a government."

[melody]

125. Thanks for the reminder :)

I'm not going to reiterate all the points I've already made. Go re-read posts and
rethink ideas. If you come to a point where you hate everyone of any type, you are
always logically incorrect. Sorry, but you are.

Now, to the ignore list with you.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

127. You haven't made any points.

:shrug:

[lebkuchen]

128. "Why do you hate America?"

Because it's so self-possessed? :)

I don't have you on my ignore.

Thanks for the posts.

Good night.

[geardaddy]

117. OK maybe you can see why we can't agree on the definition of ethnicity here.

From Merriam-Webster
Ethnic - of or relating to large groups of people classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background <ethnic minorities> <ethnic enclaves> b: being a member of a specified ethnic group <an ethnic German> c: of, relating to, or characteristic of ethnics <ethnic neighborhoods> <ethnic foods>.

bold emphasis mine to show your definition.

It looks like a pretty wide open definition.

[melody]

121. You are not reading your own posts

It is a wide open definition ... therefore, Americans are one ethnic group. I'm English,
Irish, Scots-Irish, Cherokee, and American.

[geardaddy]

123. No, you're not reading your posts.

Agreed. I'm writing my posts.

[melody]

126. Okay, at this point, we've lapsed into childish banter

Welcome to my ignore list also.

I don't like bigots of any kind.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

LOL

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=5944894

[geardaddy]

130. And by my reasoning

I'm English and Welsh, BUT also am American.

Talk about alpha primate shit.

[lebkuchen]

36. The quality of life is better, so the move is based on self-preservation

peace of mind, constant festivals, eating at long tables with strangers and becoming friends after the meal, just the general protocol of greeting everyone when entering a building and saying goodbye when leaving. Civility is what I love about Europe.

[MLFerrell]

31. The America I live in is the one...

That refuses to collectively have the courage and fortitude to do what's right and divest the traitors in charge from their seats of power.

It's the one that has a lapdog media and a corporate culture that encourages greed and ignorance.

It's the one that has a ~33% minority of utterly hateful bigots.

It's the one filled with a populace who can't point out the countries that we destroy (Iraq, Afghanistan) on a map of the world.

It's the one... you get the idea.

[melody]

38. Then you should move to my America

We have lots of problems, but we're trying to change things.

Oh, and did you know Bush is MORE popular in Europe than he is in the US?

[MLFerrell]

43. No offense, but...

"Oh, and did you know Bush is MORE popular in Europe than he is in the US?"

Bullshit. Let's see some numbers. RECENT numbers from reputable sources, please.

See, I'd be glad to move to "your" America, but it doesn't exist. If this were ANY other country in the entire goddamned world, Bush, Cheney and all of the rest of the murderous cabal would have been driven out of the country long ago.

Case in point: Ukraine in 2004.

If what I see around me today is America, then I want NO part of it.

[melody]

48. Absolutely -- I'm on break, give me two hours, I'll give you good, sound reputable sources

Then you can weep at the illusion that you have that the Godlike Europe will save us all. lol

We're ALL in the doghouse on this one, my friend.

[MLFerrell]

52. Two hours it is.

Oh, and if you can manage, ALL of Europe. This should be interesting. :)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

54. Bush is more popular in Europe?

:spray:

[melody]

64. True -- vastly more popular, in fact n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

75. Are you sure you haven't got the polls upside down?

You know, in Europe they read left to right and top to bottom, just like we do here.

http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?PageID=825

[melody]

79. Oh, now there was a mature rejoinder lol

Yet again, you go to my troll ignore list -- this thread is really helping to thin out the troll
posts.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

81. I left the wit for the actual scientific information in the link.

I agree, my rejoinder was a bit sophomoric. But then again...

[lebkuchen]

113. In Europe Bush is often compared to Hitler

"Wie aus einem holz geschnitzt"

Tourism is down nearly 20% in the heavily visited areas in the US due to Bush and the Europeans who can't tolerate him.

[melody]

118. Bush is compared to Hitler here

>Tourism is down nearly 20% in the heavily visited areas in the US due

Then they're bigots. They're in the *same* category as the idiots on Capitol Hill
renaming "Freedom Fries".

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

133. Yeah, but over there they consider it a bad thing.

:rofl:

[lebkuchen]

137. Actually, they're concerned about being turned back at the gate

because of a document snaffu (and they dislike Bush). I guess you're not aware of the hurdles the Bush administration expects tourists to clear when attempting to enter a "free" country.

The tourism industry in FL, NY, NV and CA probably isn't concerned about foreigners' attitudes/cultural mores, as long as they come, and bring a fat wallet with them. However, they're not coming, and the tourism industry and its trickle-down is losing billions of dollars.

I suppose your attitude is, "They're bigots--who needs 'em?"

[Madspirit]

53. Blech

"My people came here 350 years ago from Great Britain."


My mother was a member of Daughters of the Mayflower and women on both sides of my family are members of DAR...(blech)... My family has been here for 100s and 100s of years. THIS is my old country. ...and I am so ashamed.

Good for you and your community but go look at the PER CAPITA crime stats, compared to the countries people on this thread are bragging about and come back and tell me America isn't sinking into a roiling, filthy, stinky cesspool.

I'm ashamed of our country. ...and I'm 52. I've been fighting to change things since I was an anti Viet Nam war activist. ..and things still suck. I can give the rest of my life to me and my family. If my girlfriend and I had the money, we would relocate our whole family, two lesbians, two dogs, three cats, to Europe so fast your head would spin.
Lee

[melody]

59. Then you don't know the actual data on Europe

You only know the spin their less-than-open press gives you.

[Madspirit]

70. Haha

Go look at OUR GOVERNMENT'S crime stats. Go to the CIA Worldbook. It covers all the countries and is available to the public. Europe's spin, indeed. Jeez, this info isn't a secret.

We are stinky filth.
Lee

[melody]

74. You may be stinky filth

My people aren't.

As for -- Haha -- is that the best you can do for an argument? Yeesh. Welcome to
my ignore list, chiefly because you seem to be a troll.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

78. You think so?

Because it doesn't seem to be Madspirit that's going around calling names, starting flame wars, then putting people on ignore.

Who's the one being disruptive?

[melody]

84. Disruptive = someone who disagrees with you

I'm not calling names. I am stating that anyone who hates ALL of any group is a bigot.
It's a matter of logic. You're all acting like typical Alpha primate groups, throwing
feces about. LOL That's not a "name" -- that's an evolutionary fact.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

86. "bigots and traitors and trolls" isn't name calling?

:spray:

[melody]

87. Not if you are bigots and trolls n/t

[City Lights]

91. You forgot "traitors."

:rofl:

[Madspirit]

83. Wow, my heart is broken

I gave some pretty good replies actually. Go look at the CIA Worldbook.

Bury your head all you want. Apologists NEVER change a thing.
Lee

[geardaddy]

95. Why because your ancestors came from GB?

That's a bigoted phrase if I ever heard it.

[melody]

105. How is saying my ancestors came from Great Britain "bigoted"?

That has nothing whatsoever to do with anyone else, just me.

I'm saying my ancestral ties are more distant than someone whose people came from GB
twenty years ago.

[geardaddy]

122. Look at your response.

You may be stinky filth

My people aren't.

I only inferred that you thought your people (who came from GB 350 years ago) were not stinky filth.

[shield20]

51. You're bitching??? That actually sounds pretty good! nt

[Jacobin]

10. well, in fairness, among 300 million people, theres gonna be some shit

[melody]

22. Don't even try

Why even talk to bigots and traitors?

People who think Europeans are superior to Americans will think what they like. They're
just the European variant of freepers who sneer at France and "socialist Europe".

As for those who would abandon their own people at their time of greatest crisis? Well,
what can you say about that?

[slackmaster]

27. I can tell you why many Americans are superior to Europeans

A lot of us are decended from people who had the good sense to get the hell out of Europe because they were being persecuted.

[melody]

32. Don't play into their game -- Americans mainly came from Europe

We inherited all their problems and created a few of our own. We have an
open system (well, the remnants of one), so the press advertises our faults.
Anyone who reads that data knows that Europe is just as plagued with problems
as we are.

[slackmaster]

34. I am in complete agreement with you, melody, just a bit sarcastic

Bless you for having the fortitude to put up with the bullshit.

[melody]

46. I don't know why I bother, frankly

The self-hating Americans will bash us to suck up to Europeans and the
bigots in Europe will hate us because they want to see themselves as
superior.

One person in this thread said he/she hates ALL Americans, except for their family.
That person, by definition, is a bigot.

[Bucky]

61. Thank you for thinking, Melody.

If we're out to criticize America, I'll be first in line. But if it's just a contest to see who can criticize America the worst, I'm already bored.

[melody]

89. Same here, I hate my government, I love my country and my people

Thanks for your post.

[City Lights]

132. But our government is made up of our people.

How can you love your people but hate your government? If you hate your government, you must hate some Americans.

[melody]

135. I do hate some Americans, but not because they're American, -- because they are destroying my land

A government is not a people ... if Diebold didn't make that obvious, nothing will.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

33. Bigots and traitors?

People who point out that violent crime in Europe is far lower per capita than in the U.S. are bigots and traitors? Hmm.

[slackmaster]

37. Violent crime in the US is heavily concentrated in certain urban areas

Most of the country is quite safe. So are most areas of most large cities.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

41. And why is it concentrated in certain urban areas?

Has it got to do with endemic institutionalized racism?

[slackmaster]

42. Yes, that's certainly one factor

So is poverty. And some people are just assholes.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

49. So violent crime, institutionalized racism, poverty...

what else has the U.S. got going for it?

[slackmaster]

57. Natural beauty, abundant resources, variety of climates to choose from

Where I am there are plenty of good jobs, fascinating science and engineering going on all around me (literally), excellent higher education, and even (for most of us) good health care.

I live in a safe, comfortable area with many interesting people around - No institutionalized racism, violent crime, or poverty to speak of. In fact there are even poor and disabled people in my neighborhood living comfortably, entirely on public support. Openly gay people run successful businesses and are welcomed pretty much everywhere. Same with recent immigrants from everywhere. There's a huge variety of good fresh foods available to me, and hundreds of good local and regional beers.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

68. You know, I remember after 9-11.

There was this really crazy letter to the editor of a newspaper. This woman was highly confused as to why we were attacked, because here in America "beaches, rivers, valleys, purple mountains majesty, canyons" and other geological features they apparently don't have over seas.

:rofl:

[slackmaster]

71. No, they just hate us for our freedom

:toast:

[geardaddy]

98. But we're all one ethnicity!

:sarcasm:

[melody]

39. People who point out simplistic assessments and try to spin them

Are the same as the white supremists who bring up a handful of black-oriented crime
statistics and try to make their racist arguments.

The matter is MUCH more complex than that.

[lebkuchen]

80. As I recall, local news in any city spends the first 15 of 30 minutes on

who shot whom.

Am I right?

[slackmaster]

85. Local news?

Their motto is "If it bleeds, it leads".

[DaveJ]

19. I doubt that UNICEF rating will ever improve

A country (or community) that touts its freedom naturally is not going to be a great place to raise a child, whereas a country with more social guidelines and restrictions would be seen as more safe and stable for kids. I know that many would debate the idea that the U.S. is so free though.

[lebkuchen]

55. Germans told me last week that they won't go to the US

because of all the paperwork involved in trying to get through the border. They could possibly pay for the trip over only to be turned away at the airport and have to return home.

As a matter of fact, I have reason to believe I could be on a no-fly list as well.

Entry requirements into the US hardly "tout" America's freedom to foreign tourists.

Meanwhile, borders are open here between most countries. Don't even need to show a passport.

[Mr. Ected]

56. Germans Put Off By American Paperwork and Bureaucracy

Talk about ironic!

[lebkuchen]

60. That is funny

:)

They also said they wouldn't go over until Bush was gone.

I do find banking a lot easier here in Europe. Paying bills is very convenient.

[Mr. Ected]

67. Where Are You Living in Deutschland?

[lebkuchen]

72. well...

in wine country, and I'll leave it at that. :)

[Mr. Ected]

77. I Lived In Duesseldorf and Koeln

But made frequent journeys down the Mosel & Rhein. Loved Deidesheim. Loved almost everything about Germany. I miss it. But life goes on.

[lebkuchen]

116. wonderful areas to live in...

Mosel has excellent riesling. I'm not familiar with Deidesheim. I'm going to make note of that for a future visit. It sounds like a place that might still have its wall and fortress.

Damn, I need to get to sleep. Thanks for the good company.

[DaveJ]

94. I'm trying to find some statistics...

But can't. Just wondering what the break down is comparing the U.S. to other countries in terms of racial and religious diversity. It probably is easier to live in peace when people are more similar to one another.

At any rate, I personally have not been the victim of violence here in the U.S., just lucky I guess. But even if there were less violence in Europe, I don't think that fact alone would make me want to run there.

[rockymountaindem]

114. Borders are open once you get inside a country that's part of the open border system

It's just a passport union; like a customs union but for people. I certainly had to show my passport when I went to Austria, then again when I crossed into the Czech Republic, and once more when I crossed back into Austria.

[Pavulon]

131. I fly to Frankfurt for business and have Germans

flying here constantly. My company has offices there. The process it simple. Get you visa right and show your passport. Done.

Never had a problem in western Europe. None of my guests have had problems coming in to the us. Coming home (same in every country) they will on occasion have customs problems.

[slackmaster]

21. Things are still pretty nice in Southern California

It's hard to get into the housing market now, but that has to change sooner or later.

[Bosso 63]

28. I'm dug in, and I'll make my stand here.

The girl and her dog is a local story, I have a six year old son, and I like pizza.
I'm mad as hell, but I'm not going to let the bastards take MY country with out a fight.
If that sounds like bravado, its because I've had a few drinks, and I couldn't afford to leave if I
wanted to.

[lebkuchen]

58. Do you carry a gun?

I think I would be tempted to if I lived in the US again.

Guns in Europe are highly regulated, another reason why I like it here.

[Pavulon]

88. Except for the swiss

not to many mass killings there. Crime is more complex than the existence of the means to commit it. There is a market for illegal things in europe as well as in the us. Socio economic factors are at play.

Killing in Europe in the last 60 years dwarfs that here in the US. The two European wars brought death to a new level.

[lebkuchen]

99. Guns in Switzerland are highly regulated

as they are everywhere else in Europe. Every Swiss man who isn't yet retired has two professions: a military one and a civilian one. They are highly trained, professional soldiers, as opposed to the beer-bellied, BDU-busting, musket-toting, Michigan militia man who freelances in coon-skinning and squirrel stewing.

[Pavulon]

111. That means

he has a fully automatic rifle and tin of ammunition in his home. That means he can use it at his will. However not to many drive by shootings, gang killings, and general murder and mayhem taking place.

In england the people who could afford to get firearms license generally do not go around murdering each other.

It is all socio-economic.

[Bosso 63]

101. Funny you should ask.

I own a number of firearms, and I enjoy target shooting with my 9mm pistol. I work with "at risk youth" in the inner city, and yet I have never considered carrying a gun. For me it's more trouble than its worth. If I were a woman, maybe I would feel different, I don't know. For me I think a weapon would change my attitude, which in a weird way put me more at risk. Perhaps I'm naive, or as some of my buddies say, I need to up grade to a 1911. I don't know what the answer is. . . I just don't want to give in to fear.

[lebkuchen]

107. Over here folks talk about upgrading to a better car

one w/better gas mileage and a good GPS.

The US has a gun culture, which was no doubt factored into the UNICEF study on the well-being of chidren in economically advanced nations--the US finished second to last.

[Pavulon]

120. Yep

don't worry, we will still bring our culture over with things like IFOR/SFOR. I got to carry a rifle around and miss a year and a half of college because Europeans could not clean that mess up. Took the US to move first fix that mess.

You may want to get off your soap box now. It is late, ein bier to many maybe?

Europe has set the gold standard for mass killing. Puts any American war to shame.

BTW the European cars are for shit these days. Mercedes breaks more than Ford. Wife has a sl sold it. piece of crap, $900 for something every three months. For 50,000 you would expect a bit more. Oh well Lexus makes a nice IS350.

Porsche is the only one left that is worth much.

[Bosso 63]

129. Good for them!

Send me some money, and I will be glad to move my family to Europe and leave the "gun culture" behind.
I have never lived in Europe, only traveled through. But I have lived in the "Third world", so to me, my neighborhood looks pretty good. At least good enough to fight for. In the mean time I hope you enjoy the wine.

[geardaddy]

103. Hello fellow Minneapolitan

:hi:

Dig the avatar. ;)

[Bosso 63]

115. Howdy neighbor

Thanks, I miss Paul, but I know a lot of us do.

[RB TexLa]

30. Horrible, one more for the list of reasons I'm glad I don't raise children

[chelaque liberal]

82. What part of Germany do you live in?

My daughter just spent a year in Frieburg on a Fulbright scholarship and wants to move there permanently.

[lebkuchen]

96. That's a beautiful city

I live in one similar, with a lovely skyline, and of course, the vineyards.

[Madspirit]

93. Repub thugs

Repug thugs also accuse anyone who criticizes America of being bigots and traitors. Hmmm
Lee

[slackmaster]

97. My World History teacher in 8th grade explained it to the class this way

If you go far enough to either the left or the right politically, you end up at the same place.

Or as my Chinese former coworker quipped: "A left jack boot up your ass feels no better than a right jack boot up your ass."

[geardaddy]

100. Brilliant!

I love the quote, and that's because it's not American.

:sarcasm:

:)

[Madspirit]

104. Your friend

Your Chinese friend is funny and has a point. ...but this IS my country and I don't think hiding one's head in the sand is particularly helpful. Some of us couldn't if we wanted to. I come to my conclusions not because I am on the far left, though I am. I come to my conclusions because I live here. I live here as someone who has been homeless, FOR YEARS AT A TIME. I live here as someone who has always been in poverty. I live here as someone with a mental illness but who cannot afford to go to a doctor and get meds. (bipolar, PTSD, depression) and I live here as someone with no insurance. I live here as someone who cannot be on the insurance of the woman I have spent 15 years of my life with, let alone marry her. I live my live as someone who has actually been marginalized by the politics of this country. I am not an armchair activist. I have suffered in this country. A lot.
...and personally, I don't think head in the sand is that patriotic because it protects the status quo.
Lee

[rug]

110. You left out the Olive Garden.

[Pavulon]

124. They have shitty restaurants

in Germany too. I have eaten at my fair share.

[brentspeak]

134. I take it you're not glad about the racism that goes on in Germany

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,409517,00.html

Leipzig's Nigerian midfielder Adebowale Ogungbure was walking off the pitch when hooligans ran up to him, spat at him and called him "Dirty Nigger," "Shit Nigger" and "Ape." He ignored it and walked on. Then, when he passed the main stand and heard fans making whooping monkey noises at him, he decided he'd had enough. He put two fingers above his mouth to symbolise a Hitler moustache and stuck out his right arm in a Nazi salute to the crowd.

When's the last time something like that happened at an American sporting event?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

136. Today.

Most certainly.

In fact, this is the first hit for "racist" on google news.

http://blog.oregonlive.com/breakingnews/2007/03/do_not_publish_1.html

[pinto]

138. Locking.

The thread appears to have gone off topic and is littered with a number of personal attacks among posters.

Thanks.