I need some clarification...re Plame.

[ourbluenation]

If she was in fact covert, which I have always believed to be the case, why didn't Fitz pursue prosecutions against the people who outed her?

How are they getting away with this?

[Duer 157099]

1. He would have to prove intent

that they *knew* what they were doing

(and we all can admit that *we* know they don't know what they're doing, much less try to prove it!)

[rainy]

2. my understanding is that Libby's obstruction kept Fitz from getting to the

truth. He knew it was Cheney but could not get close to him because of Libby's lies.

[rodeodance]

7. and nothing new came out of the trial (Fritz knew all before he went in)

[davidwparker]

8. that was why. Fitz said Libby was "kicking sand." He couldn't get to the

root of things because of it.

The chart the Dems had today was terrific. Who is that black box who told Rove and Cheney?

[tiptoe]

16. Bolton? (just a guess)

[Virginia Dare]

19. That black box is the key imo...

it is the anonymous source who originally told Cheney that Wilson's wife worked at the CIA. I tend to think the black box is Cheney himself, or possibly Tenet? Not too many people could have known that information, and Cheney was known to have been slinking around the CIA on a regular basis bullying and intimidating people there.

[Buzz Clik]

12. bingo.

[POAS]

14. Yep, that's why he was charged

with obstruction of justice. He kept Fitz from getting evidence he needed.

[unblock]

3. sometimes coverups work.

at least in the legal sense. in his closing statement against libby, fitz made it clear that libby's lying put a cloud over cheney, i.e., fitz was unable to mount a legally compelling case against cheney without libby's cooperation.

[emulatorloo]

4. Because Scooter Libby threw sand in Fitz's face by lying, for one thing

That's why Libby was up for Obstruction of Justice.

Because Justice was Obstructed . . .

[sutz12]

5. The guy who actually did it, Armitage, got immunity before he turned. nt

[swag]

6. Fitz himself said that Libby's obstruction left a "cloud" over the White House

The obfuscation and obstruction of justice was successful.

As for your "if", it's important to understand that CIA Director Hayden acknowledges that she was covert. There is no "if" about it:

from Waxman's opening remarks:

"But General Hayden and the CIA have cleared these following comments for today's hearing.

During her employment at the CIA, Ms. Wilson was undercover. Her employment status with the CIA was classified information, prohibited from disclosure under Executive Order 12958.

At the time of the publication of Robert Novak's column on July 14, 2003, Ms. Wilson's CIA employment status was covert. This was classified information.

Ms. Wilson served in senior management positions at the CIA, in which she oversaw the work for other CIA employees and she attained the level of GS-14, Step 6, under the federal pay scale.

Ms. Wilson worked on some of the most sensitive and highly secretive matters handled by the CIA.

Ms. Wilson served at various times overseas for the CIA."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/16/AR2007031600811.html

[poverlay]

9. The law was written so tightly that you'd have to confess to the crime to actually

be indicted under it.

Thanks to Vicky Toensig.

[leftofthedial]

10. fitz did his job

he kept Cheney and Rove out of court.

[bluedog]

11. what is going to happen next?

this case can't be closed.is it?.........do they have to charge someone with the leak now and bring it to the courts for outing a covert...which is considered treason?

[ourbluenation]

13. thanks mucho for all the answers. Just what I was looking for. n/t

[Disturbed]

17. Rove and Cheney got away with Treason.

The both exposed a covert CIA Agent and a Covert Operation called Brewster Jennings.

[Virginia Dare]

20. with the chimp's blessing and encouragement no doubt..n/t

[Warpy]

15. My guess it's a lack of evidence

because Libby didn't turn on his lords and masters. That's why Libby was convicted of perjury and obstruction of justice.

All I know that Fitzgerald had were emails and a couple of scribbled-over memos. Both are too easy to fake.

They made it into the news, though, so Cheney's name is at least out there as being responsible for this mess.

It's now up to Congress to put the squeeze on these pimples we call an executive branch until they pop.

[Spazito]

18. Fitzgerald has made it VERY clear the case is "inactive" NOT

closed. He stated if further evidence were to surface the investigation would be re-activated. This means other charges could still be laid were further evidence, say from a Congressional hearing, come to light. If I were the bush cabal, I would NOT be relaxing yet.

[ourbluenation]

21. that's right. he said that in his response to waxman to appear today.

that it wouldn't be appropriate because the investigation is ongoing. hot damn! thx

[merh]

22. I know I have replied to this question several times.

Armitage, Libby, Fleishcer, Rove were not the "leakers" as they did not have the security clearance necessary to know that Plame was covert CIA.

They were fed the information by person(s) that had the clearance and thus access to the information. The person(s) that fed them the information that they gave to the media was the leaker(s). The gray areas that come into play are whether or not the prez has the power to declassify the information pertaining to any intelligence officer. Libby obstructed justice long enough, lied often enough, that the WH was able to scramble for cover. There may well exist a Executive Order that declassifies Plame's identity. Whether it is binding is a legal issue that would take years of litigation. Fitz was able to determine that Libby lied to interfere with the investigation and charged him accordingly. The investigation was legitimate thus the lies and the obstruction were crimes. There are classified documents that the CIA has, that the Court and probably some members of Congress with appropriate clearance, have reviewed that establish or prove that Plame was covert.

[ourbluenation]

24. but what if someone doesn't have the clearance, but still knows, and leaks?

[merh]

25. It is hard to prove that they "know" or had access to the classified

information. John Doe steals classified documents and gives them to the other side, outing Spy X. If it can be proven that he stole the document and gave it to the other side, it is easy to establish he leaked the information.

Let's say the VPOTUS tells Libby she is covet CIA. Libby tells the media. Without the testimony of the VPOTUS that he leaked the covert status to Libby (who did not have the clearance to have the information), it is hard to prove that Libby knew she was covert.

[PhilipShore]

23. Rove is CIA n/t

[goodhue]

26. Intent is an essential element of the crime

To which the claim that they didn't know she was covert is a pretty good defense.

[fladonkey]

27. Let's put it this way.....

if Ms. Plame was only a file clerk at the CIA they wouldn't have leaked it.