Hero of French Resistance in WWII dies - Nazis considered her a terrorist

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.suntimes.com/news/obituaries/300020,CST-NWS-xaubrac16.article

PARIS -- Lucie Aubrac, a hero of the French Resistance who helped free her husband from the Gestapo and whose dramatic life story became a hit film, has died. She was 94.

Ms. Aubrac, whose maiden name was Lucie Bernard, died Wednesday, said her daughter Catherine Vallade.

President Jacques Chirac called Ms. Aubrac an ''emblematic figure,'' saying ''a light of the Resistance has gone out.'' snip

''The word 'resistance' should always be conjugated in the present tense,'' Ms. Aubrac once said.

[cali]

1. A courageous woman. And one of principle.

And yes, of course the Nazis called her a terrorist, but unless she or her husband deliberately murdered civilians, she wasn't. Whereas people blowing up civilians in Iraq- ostensibly as a form of resistance against the Occupation- are terrorists.

[fudge stripe cookays]

2. I believe that she was the one...

who followed a Nazi convoy and while pregnant, managed to free her husband Raymond, who was being sent to the camps.

(sorry , didn't click on link..it's probably in there)

fsc

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

[cali]

4. And some people are terrorists

people who target civilians in an effort to terrorize, are terrorists.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. Does that include the ANC, the "Sons of Liberty" and John Brown?

Or, how about the U.S. Air Force?

Actually, I agree with you, in a way. Killing civilians (and, people in general) is wrong for whatever noble (or, ignoble) cause.

“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy.” - Gandhi

[cali]

8. Of course it includes state actors

And whoever else has deliberately attacked a civilian population in an effort to terrorize them and bend them to the will of the terrorists.

[bvar22]

11. How about the bombings of Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and Dresden?

None of these cities had military value.

Were those terrorist attacks?

[cali]

14. Of course.

What part of state actors can be terrorists as well, didn't you understand? Just out of curiosity. How many times must I say this? Those who target civilian populations, whether they be state actors or loosely organized groups, in order to terrorize, demoralize and diminish, are perpetrating terrorism.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

13. I think terrorism has implications of covertness.

I wouldn't describe putting to death citizens of a country you've occupied in order to cow them as "terrorism". I think it's worse than many things that are terrorism, but while there isn't a moral distinction I think there is a semantic one.

[rman]

20. UN and CIA think otherwise

UN definition of terrorism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism#Official_Definitions

"intended to cause death or serious bodily harm to civilians or non-combatants with the purpose of intimidating a population or compelling a government or an international organization to do or abstain from doing any act."



CIA definition of terrorism
https://www.cia.gov/terrorism/faqs.html

The Intelligence Community is guided by the definition of terrorism contained in Title 22 of the US Code, Section 2656f(d):

—The term “terrorism” means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience.

[Greeby]

5. Kick and salute nt

:kick:

[rockymountaindem]

7. Wow. Anybody who can match wits with that demon Klaus Barbie has my respect

Rest in peace.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

9. A true heroine

The article is a little confusing, as it might seem that her husband was Jean Moulin from the way it is written:

"...Ms. Aubrac led the armed commando that rescued her husband and Resistance leader Jean Moulin during their transfer to another prison..."

Jean Moulin, of course was the heroic leader of the French Resistance, who left France several times to receive instructions in England and was parachuted clandestinely back into France. Moulin was tortured and murdered by Klaus Barbie but never revealed the identities of the other leaders of the resistance. Ms. Aubrac's husband, one of the many Jews to fight in the French resistance, was also being held with Jean Moulin in the same prison. But he was not Jean Moulin, who unfortunately gave his life to the cause.

That this lady's husband was a Jew operating in the French Resistance under a manufactured and false identity, and that she met with Klaus Barbie to try to get him released, makes her all the more heroic for her daring and bravery.

[LeftishBrit]

10. A great person

RIP.

[WinkyDink]

12. Then again, the Nazis might very well have had clarity

about themselves as the real terrorists, and viewed this woman as the patriotic freedom-fighter she was.

[file83]

15. In 60 years I'm sure Iraqis will be mourning the deaths of their passing heros of their "Resistance"

So, what does that make America?

[cali]

16. Really? I doubt it.

So who would you identify as a hero of the Iraqi resistance? Sorry, the two scenarios are hardly analogous. And horrendous as this ill begotten war is, it's laughable to compare it to the Nazi instigation of world wide conflagration and genocide.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

17. I don't think the poster was comparing what the U.S. is doing to the Nazis

If he was, then I disagree with him. In my opinion, there never was a more sadistic and morally depraved occupying force than the Nazis. The Nazis not only practiced genocide of a people but they murdered millions of civilians of many ethnicities and crushed all resistance with barbaric force. To the Nazis, anyone who resisted was considered a terrorist, as that term was merely a catch-all term of propaganda. While some German civilians did go to work as support staff in the countries occupied by their military, most of the killings by the resistance among the Germans were of German soldiers, not German civilians. Among the Germans, resistance fighters killing their soldiers were called terrorists. The term had a different meaning to the Nazis. Terrorism meant resistance, armed or not. And often, quite ironically, they would then kill civilians in retaliation for these acts of "terror".

Sometimes, however, I believe terrorism is good. For example, the resistance to the Nazis often killed civilians who collaborated with the enemy. That collaboration enabled the military forces to keep their grip on the civilian population in occupied countries and continue murdering it. Therefore, I firmly believe that terrorism can be quite good and moral if for the right purpose. I applaud the killing of German civilians working in factories by the American and British bombing raids, as those civilians had a moral choice of continuing to support Nazi genocide and murder or to resist it themselves. To me, it's about morality, not tactics.

But to suggest that there can be no heroes of the Iraqis in the current illegal and immoral war of occupation by the U.S. is something I don't think you can possibly mean. And from the previous posts of yours I've seen condemning this war, the one above is perhaps one you would reconsider. After the death of at least 650,000 of their own, after Abu Ghraib, the sporadic murders of Iraqis by U.S. soldiers gone mad, after the myriad of accidental shootings of women and children at check-points, after the destruction of Fallujah and the use of white phosphorous, I truly think that it is possible that some Iraqis could find that opponents of the U.S. presence might be heroic. To me, it's within the realm of possibility.

[Vidar]

18. RIP Mme. Aubrac.

[malaise]

19. Great post

K & R