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FBI file links Kennedy to Monroe's death ( Robert .F)

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seriousstan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 09:04 PM
Original message
FBI file links Kennedy to Monroe's death ( Robert .F)
For four decades there have been rumours that Marilyn Monroe's death was not a simple suicide. Now a Los Angeles-based Australian writer and director, Philippe Mora, has uncovered an FBI document that throws up a chilling new scenario.

BOBBY KENNEDY'S affair with the screen idol Marilyn Monroe has been documented, but a secret FBI file suggests the late US attorney-general was aware of - and perhaps even a participant in - a plan "to induce" her suicide.

The detailed three-page report implicates the Hollywood actor Peter Lawford, Monroe's psychiatrist, staff and her publicist in the plot.

The allegations suggest the 36-year-old actress, who had a history of staging attention-seeking suicide attempts, was deliberately given the means to fake another suicide on August 4, 1962. But this time, it is suggested, she was allowed to die as she sought help.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/kennedy-link-to-death/2007/03/16/1173722744304.html
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Greeby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. aye carumba
:wow:
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Little Wing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. nice timing
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SaveOurDemocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. This is old news ...

and a 3 page FBI file that implicates someone of something is not proof of anything.

"...Despite a disclaimer that it could not be sourced or authenticated, it was considered important enough to immediately circulate to the FBI's five most senior officers, including director J. Edgar Hoover's right-hand man, Clyde Tolson. ..."

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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Wondering why if it's old news the paper is running it 3/17/07?
Is it some retrospective?
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
4. There was an LAPD motorcycle patrolman who for decades claimed
that he had pulled over a speeding Oldsmobile (iirc)in Brentwood the night Marilyn died.
In the car, allegedly, was Dr.Greenson, Peter Lawford, and Bobby Kennedy, who was supposed to be in San Francisco that night.
Hmmmmm....
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
5. Hoover obsessively collected every possible rumor in the hopes ...
... of having enough usable blackmail material to be able to protect himself against attempts to dislodge him from his position. Of course, it worked well enough for him, in the sense that he kept plenty of folk plenty scared. But that doesn't mean such files from the Hoover days are good historical sources: they're likely to contain lots of mere rumors gathered by Hoover's foot-soldiers in their fishing expeditions ...
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. Funny how a few years can affect 'news' like this.
I start making notes:

The claim is not new.
The players are not new (unless the participation of her staff is new - I never followed it).
We know more about J. Edgar Hoover.
We now are much more experienced in lies.
We understand much more clearly the intense hate that existed for the Kennedy's.


I'll even go one step further -

Two Australians.
Australia is a partner in Echelon with the U.S., U.K., Canada, New Zealand.
Echelon partners spy on each other's citizens and pass the information back to avoid laws about spying on their own. (In the case of the U.S.,Kg. Bush and PNAC decided to just go ahead and spy on us directly - a perk of 9-11).

So, the two Australians could be legit, but perhaps they were borrowed.

Then I go further.
Perhaps the release date on this 'document' might have coincided with an announcement that JFK, Jr was running for Pres around this time.

What I'm sure of is that this is not going to be a deflection and consume the press to distract us from the news of the WH manuevers.

It's a ho-hummer.


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glaeken777 Donating Member (334 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
7. from the man who brought you HOWLING III...
...and COMMUNION: A TRUE STORY....

Talk about a hard sell.
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Matilda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
8. If anyone was a candidate for suicide, it was Marilyn Monroe.
Her terrible childhood - abandonment by her parents, emotional abuse,
rape - made her a very fragile person. I don't believe she was the bimbo
she's often thought to be, but she was emotionally unbalanced, and I
think a lot of people used and manipulated her, to her further detriment.

She was 36 - a turning point in Hollywood that is so obsessed with the
image of youth, and her increasing unreliability had resulted in her
being fired from her latest movie. Unless she had the strength to make
huge changes in her life, and that's extremely doubtful, it was going to
be a downhill run from there. I don't find it at all strange that she
would consider making her exit at that time.

It's quite possible that Bobby Kennedy may have wished to remove from the
house any documents that might prove her connection to the Kennedys, but
if they were going to do away with anybody, they'd have arranged for it
to be done, not carried it out themselves. Bobby would have taken care
to be well away from Monroe's house at the time of her death, and even
his enemies should give him credit for that much intelligence.

And I'd take anything detrimental that J Edgar Hoover's FBI had to say
about the Kennedys with a very large pinch of salt.

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seriousstan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. easy victim
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 06:06 AM
Response to Original message
10. pathetic. n/t
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Psephos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
11. Whether this is valid or not, the real Kennedys bore little resemblance to their image
They are a study of how power corrodes once-high ideals. I like John much more than Robert, whose ruthlessness and perception management were legendary. John's weakness was self-indulgence; he reminds me of Oscar Wilde, who said, "I can resist anything, except temptation." It's sad, even tragic, that JFK could not bring himself to live more in accord with his own beautiful public oratory.

Reading an objective biography of the Kennedys reveals that Joseph Kennedy was the true author of this multi-generational catalog of dysfunction. The sins of the fathers....

Peace.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. You sound like Prescott Bush. The Kennedys were and are good people.
President John F. Kennedy worked to make life better for all Americans and to keep the world's peace. Read an objective analysis of his work to keep the United States out of Vietnam, say from John Newman or James Galbraith. Same for his brother, Senator Robert F. Kennedy, who worked to bring peace to Vietnam. The same for Senator Edward M. Kennedy, who today works to end yet another war started by lies.

Actions speak louder than words. The Kennedys were -- and are -- the real thing, Peacemakers. Bush, Bush, Reagan, Ford, Nixon, blah blah blah were -- and are -- warmongers.
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angstlessk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-18-07 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Ya know...MOST if not ALL presidents had lovers...and JFK suffered pain
for his entire presidency..I very much doubt he was jumping in bed with gorgeous women.. he is the least likely of presidents to have had affairs.

AND HE DID USE his presidency to influence policy for the lest among us...unlike your probable favorite...REAGAN!
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Psephos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-18-07 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. Have you honestly not read any biographies about the Kennedys?
How else to explain your blind spot regarding JFK's serial womanizing? The "least likely" president to have had affairs? Do you not realize how uninformed and naive you will sound saying that in public? Wingnuts will cut you to shreds. Instead, with command of the facts, you can disarm them. The choice is yours.

As I said in my post, I like JFK, and have taken a lot of inspiration from his public words. Publicly, he personified the kind of liberal politics I most admire, and hope to see return. Privately, like many great men, he had tremendous flaws and caused a lot of misery to those unfortunate enough to have been tangled up with him. But he was kinder by far than RFK.

I think it best we don't put our favorite politicians on a pedestal. The right does that a lot with Reagan, who, despite your mean-spirited comment, is not my "favorite president." Take a lesson from their deification of Reagan. I'd prefer we not follow in their footsteps.

Peace.


PS - Here's a quote from JFK's inaugural. I'd be interested in your opinion of it.

Man holds in his mortal hands the power to abolish all forms of human poverty and all forms of human life. And yet the same revolutionary beliefs for which our forebears fought are still at issue around the globe--the belief that the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state, but from the hand of God.

We dare not forget today that we are the heirs of that first revolution. Let the word go forth from this time and place, to friend and foe alike, that the torch has been passed to a new generation of Americans--born in this century, tempered by war, disciplined by a hard and bitter peace, proud of our ancient heritage--and unwilling to witness or permit the slow undoing of those human rights to which this Nation has always been committed, and to which we are committed today at home and around the world.

Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.

This much we pledge--and more.

-- John F. Kennedy, January 20, 1961
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Hidden Stillness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-18-07 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
14. A Short History, for the Gullible
This whole group of planted stories have been floating around, revived every now and then as needed, since the 1970s, plaguing Marilyn Monroe fans and, sadly, shockingly, continues now, despite the fact that the website spewing the latest version of the tale, is one of the cheesiest, lying things I have ever seen. Is it really this easy to trick people?

First, about the Australian website: after a dreary recitation of the now-familiar lie/story, with the odd, sensationalized claim that these stories are "never before mentioned," the website refers to, quote, "the then Democrat governor of California," quote--hey wait a minute, that sounds like Repub-speak, what's that doing there!--and claims that an FBI "special agent" was working for the "Democrat" governor, which is ridiculous; they work for the FBI. They then claim that the second-rate drug-addled Peter Lawford that many of us remember, kicked out of the Rat Pack anf bitter about it, "made 'special arrangements' " with Monroe's psychiatrist Greenson to inject her--with Bobby Kennedy don'cha know, and they all drove over there in the middle of the afternoon and did it! Unbelievable! The kicker, though, is at the end, where they refer to J. Edgar Hoover as the "keeper of America's secrets"--does your "bullshit detector" just never go off anymore? I actually clicked on the "FBI files" link from this site, which no doubt most people will not bother with, and read through all this hugely impressive "evidence."

About halfway through, there is a document called "Robert F. Kennedy," which they claim is "secret," even though it tells you right on it, that it was declassified on 12/6/84. It is slanderous and unproved, and is treated as such by the FBI, with a note that it "does not know the source and cannot evaluate the authenticity of this information." Hey--good enough for me! Unfortunately, the following is an actual quote from this thing. It refers to the movie executive of that time, George Stevens, Jr., and mentions Stevens's great director father. "His father, George Stevens, Sr., is a left-wing Hollywood director, who is well-know (sic) for specializing in the making of slanted and left-wing pictures. One of these was the "Diary of Anne Frank." " This is the hugely impressive document that accuses Robert Kennedy. Unfortunately, Monroe's close friend and assistant Pat Newcomb's last name is NEVER spelled correctly, but is always "Newcombe." I cannot tell you how shocking and unexpected that all was.

The whole FBI file from this website's link is a mish-mash of often unrelated things, much of it about Arthur Miller during the '50s, much of it from that archcon hysteric Walter Winchell's newspaper column, and almost none of it even on the supposed topic. There are pages from incomplete reports, things all mixed up, etc.--all the hallmarks of brilliant investigative work. Still, a lot of it is interesting, especially some interviews from the FBI during the '50s, where people describe why they became Communists, and why they left. Some of it was very perceptive, and even haunting, to be immersed in some of these documents. Had nothing to do with Monroe and Kennedys, however.

If you want to read someone who goes over all of this crap and wonderfully takes it all apart, read Donald Spoto's great biography "Marilyn Monroe: The Biography." This was somebody who really had access to files, even Milton Greene's private papers, and talking to Amy Greene. Spoto also destroyed the "Kennedys did it" filth. As eveyone knows, Pres. Kennedy's affairs with both Judith Campbell Exxner, connected to Mob figures, and Angie Dickenson, were both revealed during the 1970s. Why didn't "the Kennedys" murder both of them, to "keep the horrible secret quiet"? All of Monroe's actual friends have always maintained that she did not really even like the serious and tense Robert, but preferred John Kennedy; no one who knows anything has ever said anything different. The phony, shifting anti-Kennedy slander traces back to that prick Norman Mailer, (remember when Mailer tried to stab a divorcing ex-wife to death? no? interesting), who invented it for a best-selling coffee table book then. Arthur Miller always believed that the spiteful Mailer invented all the slander against Monroe and the Kennedys because Mailer was always trying to get a date with Monroe, and she correctly knew what Mailer was, and always said no. Spoto uncovered a "60 Minutes" from that time, where Mike Wallace asks Mailer, why did you make up a lie about an affair with Bobby Kennedy? "I needed money very badly," and that was a surefire way to punch up the sales. (I remember, by the way, when this shit went from hardcover to paperback, and a lying, slanderous story where Elizabeth Taylor is supposedly at a restaurant, Monroe tries to come up to her and say Hi, and Mailer has Elizabeth Taylor saying, "Get that dyke away from me!" Yes, this lie was not in the paperback--somebody threaten to sue?)

Becaue the Kennedy-haters have to present the impression of "research," they sometimes slip up and give "details" that a real writer will use to try to verify, and this was what Donald Spoto did. For these "clandestine meetings" between Robert Kennedy and Monroe, several "authors" gave dates--yet when Spoto followed it up, it was verifiable that Kennedy was actually in a meeting, witnessed, in the Justice Dept., giving a speech, or etc. As a matter of fact, if all you do is read the "Afterword" of Spoto's biography, you will get a lot of things cleared up. The "police officer" who always expressed such reservations about the crime scene, Kennedys, etc., was Jack Clemmons, a rabid, archcon, anti-Kennedy, who had collaborated on anti-Kennedy, anti-liberal tracts for creepy little publishers since before Monroe's death. Much of the "murder" publishing has come from extremist California Republicans who hate the Kennedys, such as this Frank Capell, etc. Of course, the highly exciting "audio tape" with Kennedy asking if Monroe is dead yet--no one has ever been able to locate it anywhere and it, along with the "Monroe diary," has never been found or even verified by anyone other than the anti-Kennedy crowd. I hate it when that happens!

This is not the first time people have been "imported" to do this "work"--(I guess this is another job Americans won't do). Remember that phony Anthony Summers, "from the BBC," who talked to a Jeanne Carmen, who actually never knew Marilyn Monroe and admitted it later, after none of Monroe's friends had ever heard of her; Summers' classy "investigation" distinguished itself by printing a picture of the dead Monroe, stolen from the morgue. Many FBI files are full of silly reports from liars with an axe to grind, and although they are taken and are in the file, no one at the FBI takes them seriously, knowing that every public figure has nut cases from the other side, trying to destroy their careers--you never heard that "the Clintons murdered Vince Foster," and further, that "everybody knows how ambitious and ruthless they are"? Also, California Republicans specifically, are known for being totally corrupt, planting fake documents in files and censoring real ones, etc. Once, about 20-25 years ago, I went on a kick where I was trying to learn all about Jean Harlow and the murder or suicide of Paul Bern. I ordered the hugely-overpriced Los Angeles County coroners' report, paying for it page by page. When it got to, I can't remember now but about page 9 or 10, they cut a part from an earlier page, put it over the new page, and covered up almost all of the page I wanted, so you could not read what was there. I photocopied it, sent it back, and asked for the complete page. They never answered me! What they could possibly have been covering up all those years later, when everybody immediately connected with the case was already dead, I don't know. Never underestimate California Republican corrupt nuts, however.

Spoto, by the way, makes a brilliant case for considering the psychiatrist Greenson guilty of malpractice, for several high-handed abuses for Monroe, and that the cause of the overdosing was that Greenson and her physician, Hyman Engelberg, were prescribing all these different sleeping pills, etc., etc., and not communicating with each other. Not as interesting as parlaying that to an attack on the Kennedys though, is it, DU "sheeple"? Marilyn Monroe does not deserve this,and Robert Kennedy does not deserve this. Why are there never stories flying around, about Republicans and their evil; you can't even get the facts about Newt Gingrich's cruelty to women to be covered by their media, yet they give us this, for the thousandth time. This is what we call "a clue."
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Graybeard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-18-07 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. Great post Hidden Stillness.
More DUers should be able to read it but I don't want to rec this thread. Please consider posting it as an OP.
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La_Fourmi_Rouge Donating Member (878 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-18-07 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
15. TAKE THIS OP AND SHOVE IT!!!
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-18-07 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Agreed -- useless drivel that pushes real stories downward
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-18-07 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
18. THIS SAYS IT ALL: "could not be sourced or authenticated" + J. Edgar Hoover
from the article:

Despite a disclaimer that it could not be sourced or authenticated, it was considered important enough to immediately circulate to the FBI's five most senior officers, including director J. Edgar Hoover's right-hand man, Clyde Tolson.

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Graybeard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-18-07 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
19. Give me a break. This is pure crap.
People talk about FBI files and FBI documents as if they are sacred texts. There is so much garbage in a lot of FBI files they rival the supermarket tabloids for unreliable information. This is the Marilyn conspiracy equivalent of the Jesus grave hoax.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-18-07 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
20. Rory Kennedy's " Ghosts of Abu Ghraib" VICIOUS PAY BACK!
I believe this smear is about this release:

The daughter of RFK discusses her new documentary, Ghosts of Abu Ghraib.

http://nymag.com/movies/filmfestivals/sundance/26528/
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