Peter Pace forgets the lessons of history.

[roguevalley]

One only has to study history to know that his opinions have no weight, that they are based on hatred and a lack of confidence in his own manhood and not the truth. History is dotted with the efforts of people of all persuasions to protect and defend their countries and families, including, always, gay people.

The Sacred Band of Thebes was ENORMOUSLY famous and feared as warriors and patriots of their country.
They were hand picked, numbered 150 couples and they were the elite of the Theban army. Their leadership felt that people with bonds would fight together, more fiecely and more dedicatedly if they were connected in some way:

"And if there were only some way of contriving that a state or an army should be made up of lovers and their loves, they would be the very best governors of their own city, abstaining from all dishonour, and emulating one another in honour; and when fighting at each other's side, although a mere handful, they would overcome the world. For what lover would not choose rather to be seen by all mankind than by his beloved, either when abandoning his post or throwing away his arms? He would be ready to die a thousand deaths rather than endure this. Or who would desert his beloved or fail him in the hour of danger?" (Plato, Symposium)

More:

"After the Theban general Pelopidas recaptured the acropolis of Thebes in 379 BC, he assumed command of the Sacred Band in which he fought alongside his good friend, Epaminondas. It was Pelopidas who formed these couples into a distinct unit: he “never separated or scattered them, but would stand the brunt of battle, using them as one body.” They became, in effect, the “crack” force of Greek soldiery, and the forty years of their known existence (378 – 338 BC) marked the pre-eminence of Thebes as a military and political power in late-classical Greece." (Wikipedia)

They defeated the Spartan Army and helped free Thebes to be an independent country.

King Philip and his son, Alexander (eventually 'The Great') defeated them and they died to the last man, surrounded. Philip said: "Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly."

Alexander wept and put a monument up for them where they fell that still stands.

The Greeks has no qualms about using the idea of bonds such as this to build their armies and drew upon Homer's Nestor to show why: "Homer's Nestor was not well skilled in ordering an army when he advised the Greeks to rank tribe and tribe ... he should have joined lovers and their beloved. For men of the same tribe little value one another when dangers press; but a band cemented by friendship grounded upon love is never to be broken." (Plutarch)

I am no expert on this but it seems to me that over the centuries people have stood up for their countries, often in spite of obstacles that in the end meant nothing in the breach. The graveyards of America and everywhere else in the world are filled with soldiers, men and women, who gave their lives for their country. It just so happens that some of them are gay. The bullets didn't differentiate. The hardships weren't less upon their backs. They stood up for their countries, often in spite of difficulty, like anyone else and they deserve FULL RESPECT and HONOR.

For Pace or anyone else to speak about them as if they were less a man or woman, less a patriot of their country, less deserving of respect is SHAMEFUL. For the men and women serving who JUST HAPPEN TO BE GAY, I salute you. For those who gave of the last full measure, I salute you too. You stand in a long line of honor dating from the past to the present and no one, not even some jumped up general can minimize nor subtract from that.

RV, also wishing all Irish and Irish-by-proxy a Happy St. Patty's Day.

[saltpoint]

1. Shame on West Point if it is no longer including Greek military history

in its regimen for preparing cadets for their future roles as commanders.

And shame on Peter Pace if West Point IS still including Greek history, since in that case he knows this history and chooses to block it out from public consideration while giving his own paltry bigotry top billing.

Excellent post.

[roguevalley]

2. Its sad, isn't it? All this wonderful, thrilling history. I imagine they

discuss the battles but leave out the personalities. Too bad. They could learn a lot from the way people interact.

[saltpoint]

3. Philip and Alexander's regard for the Theban Band was read to me

by a college prof. You can be certain it would have been too hot to handle for high school history.

Still, I remember the day I first came upon that information, and was asked to consider its emotional wallop.

Pace's comments made him sound ignorant of history. Not a good thing for a guy in his position.

[Captain Hilts]

4. Gays fought in and helped win WWII. He have a problem with that? nt

[msongs]

5. those ancient greeks were not.....christians :-) nt