Code Pink, And The Timidity Of The Dems

[WillyT]

Gotta admit, I'm a tad conflicted here. When I first laid eyes on the pink protester over Valerie Plame's shoulder, I thought, "Aw geez." I believe part of that is just social conditioning. Being used to the usual "straight forward", and somewhat stuffy, congressional hearings (1970's - 2000). I was a bit uncomfortable seeing this individual on camera, and wondered what the rest of the country would think.

And therein lies the rub.

When I first posted here at DU, I wondered what others might think of some of the posts here at DU. Would I, would we, turn people off to our points of view by being brutally honest, and many times over-the-top? Should we allow theories on 9\11 conspiracies? Should DUers use the comparisons to the Nazi's, or tone it down to fascists, if even that? After a while I realized that, not only is it my\our constitutionally given right to express our feelings and views, but it is exactly the nature of political discourse, and it generates discussion that leads to change in many instances.

As the testimony in Waxman's hearing went on, I noticed that the pink person wasn't bothering me anymore. I went from not noticing that person, to total focus on what was being asked and answered, to kind of admiring not only the pink tiared(sp?) spectator, but the other folks in the room who were kind of enjoying the whole thing. That person in fact, was a reminder to all, that there are millions of Americans who are fundamentally committed to not only witnessing history, but to changing it as well.

When MLK decided to follow the path of Gandhi, and use non-violent protest to move the Civil Rights cause forward, there were many (including many Blacks) that worried immensely that this might backfire and make their conditions worse, and cripple their cause.

When the first Vietnam War protesters and draft card burners struck out to change the direction of our policies in Southeast Asia, and end that terrible mistake of a war, there were similar cautions from their own side.

A friend of mine uses the analogy of tugboats to mammoth ships. It takes several small but powerful tugs, to push into the harbor a mighty lumbering behemoth. The large ship is heavy and pretty much helpless until pushed into a position where it can get underway, and sail under its own speed.

Code Pink, and us, and many other organizations, are those tugs right now. And it takes the power of all of us together, in many different ways, to effect and move the behemoth that is the American People, and the Democratic Party as well. The Dems seem to be floundering slightly, and they are not sure of the depth of the tide (polls), so we have to keep on pushing until they can get under their own speed. We've been tied up to a dock, in a hostile port for a long six years now, and we are trying to get to sea while making repairs at the same time. I intend to continue to push.

So I guess I ain't that conflicted after all. I stand with Code Pink, and look forward to marching with them again soon. I hope to see you all there.

WillyT

[niyad]

1. k & r--you said it beautifully, there is nothing I could add.

[cali]

2. Oh, please

Bringing in MLK is just sooo ridiculous. If anyone ever embodied dignity it was he. Yesterday's little exhibition was a distraction from the main event. Timing, as is so oft said, is everything.

God, I get sick of DU sacred cows. Of course, being someone who doesn't tend to idolize anyone, it gets under my skin to see so much of it.

[WillyT]

6. Um... Were You Around During The Civil Rights Movement ???

I was.

:wtf:

[Cameron27]

109. Let me ask you a question.

Would you feel the same way if someone in a hot pink tiara stood behind MLK, and pantomimed shame, shame, and darted back and forth to stay in the same camera frame as him, during his "I've Got a Dream" speech?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

111. !

:applause:

[Cameron27]

123. I'm not getting an answer,

but if I only knew how to photoshop! At what point does anyone think that hot pink tiara woman's tactics are inappropriate. It would be interesting.

[Seldona]

160. Exactly!

Were they protesting congressional oversight of this administration? Because that is exactly what that hearing was. I watched all four hours of it, and that was NOT a republican lovefest. It was one of the most powerful hearings I have seen yet where the Democratic Party did WONDERS to expose this administraion what it is.

Don't get me wrong. I support Code Pink's right to protest, and have no problem when they are standing behind the likes of Bush, Cheney, Rummy, etc. I just don't see the point in THIS particular protest.

[blogslut]

3. What I noticed

Was the open atmosphere of the hearing. An atmosphere that was squelched when the other party was in charge. What a relief it was, funny hats and all. :)

[EFerrari]

4. Exactly. What a relief.

:)

[WillyT]

8. Exactly !!! - We Don't Frog March People Out Of Our Hearings !!!

And I say kudos to Waxman for that!

[Morereason]

27. Then what will we do if the Freepers catch on and do the same?

[WillyT]

31. I Guess It Depends On How Much They Disrupt

Apparently the pinkster wasn't a threat.

Except to some on DU.

:evilgrin:

[Raven]

5. It was disrespectful. Period.

I stand with Code Pink too but yesterday's exhibition of grandstanding was really too much. Here was a true American hero, Valerie Plame Wilson, horribly wronged, getting her first chance to speak to Congress and the American people. She deserved everyone's attention and respect. I say shame on whoever concocted that stunt!

[SoCalDem]

7. In a perfect world, I agree wholeheartedly, but

The "left" has been vilified for THIRTY YEARS now by a media that is NOT on our side..even a little bit.

Every protest is viewed through a rightwing prism, and the pictures shown to "the rest of the people" are almost always the predictable ones.

the "dirty" hippie
the "sexy" scantily dressed "girls"
the ones chanting
the ones drumming
the ones with puppets
the ones performing street theatre
the scruffy (homeless?) people
the deliberately provocative ones with signs that have obscenities which tv will "blur"..(gotta show how naughty these folks are)

MLK took a page from what was the "norm". His protesters dressed up, wore suits & ties.. they sought to be "average/mainstream" in appearance.

The media we have (versus the one we should have) always zooms in on the "goofy" ones, and further enhances the myth that the lefties are loony, fringe people with way too many "causes' to be taken seriously.

Image is EVERYTHING.

That's why these protests get very little coverage, and what coverage they get, is skewed as "a bunch of goofballs out there trying to be mean to the president".

[WillyT]

11. True... But While Non-Racists In The North And South Saw The Dignity...

of MLK's protesters nicely dressed and standing up for their rights, the racists DID NOT!!!

I could repeat for you the epithets and derision that was hurled in the direction of those protesters, but I cannot bear to speak it.







Sometimes it doesn't matter how you're dressed.

[SoCalDem]

13. The way they were dressed was not the MOST important thing, but it DID

"play well" for the rest of the country who DID pressure government to do the right thing.

Like it or not, the "mainstreet, USA" image is burned into our brains by movies, media.

Even small children, when shown pictures of people, make judgements of people by how they are presented and what they wear.

You see a guy in a fireman's get up and you are not surprised to find out he's a fireman.:)

MLK knew inherently that they needed every bit of acceptance they could muster, to get outsiders involved in caring about their plight.

[WillyT]

16. And Sometimes When You Protest, Feelings Get Ruffled

[blogslut]

23. That was a hell of a moment

From teh Wikipedia:

"Smith and Carlos were largely ostracised by the US sporting establishment in the following years and in addition were subject to criticism of their actions. The Los Angeles Times accused Smith and Carlos of a "Nazi-like salute." Time Magazine showed the five-ring Olympic logo with the words, "Angrier, Nastier, Uglier," instead of "Faster, Higher, Stronger". Back home they were subject to abuse and they and their families received death threats..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics_Black_Power_Salute

[WillyT]

25. Protest Isn't For The Timid

But man... did they get the establshment's panties in a wad with that one!!!

:evilgrin:

[blogslut]

28. Yep

:)

[Morgana LaFey]

84. "Sometimes it doesn't matter how you're dressed."

Thank you, Willy T. That was MOST poignant along with those photos.

The rightwing will seize on ANYthing to discredit us. The more we dance to their tune, the more we'll just be tap dancing in place, and the MORE they will control us. Catering to their prejudices against us, and their criticisms of us is a losing strategy, not a winning one. It can NEVER be a winning one.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

9. Hmmm. I Kept Thinking "What A Totally Ignorant Selfish Moron".

To each their own perception.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tanuki]

20. Did you know she was a veteran of the first Gulf War? Perhaps she (Midge Potts)

is not quite as ignorant and selfish as you would like to believe.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

26. I Fail To See The Relevance In Regards To Her Actions Yesterday.

I don't give a rat's fat ass if she's a nuclear scientist. Her actions yesterday were ignorant and disgraceful in my opinion.

[Tanuki]

42. Your opinion....you're certainly entitled to it.

I'm sure there were plenty who felt the same about the people who dressed up as Indians and dumped tea in Boston Harbor in 1773.

[WillyT]

48. Oooo... Great Point !!!

:bounce::yourock::bounce:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

52. So Are You Agreeing That Those That Took Part In The Boston Tea Party Are Comparable To The Few That

tried to distract and interrupt an extremely important congressional hearing in regards to Valerie Plame? For real? You think that's a great 'YOU ROCK!' comparison?

Please, indulge me. Just how is it that you find the two situations to be so comparable and the analogy to be worthy of such praise? Can you detail your logic for us please? It would be greatly appreciated, since you seem to believe in the comparison so much.

Thanks! :hi:

[WillyT]

57. No Crime, You Indulge Me !!! - You Are On Multiple Threads About This "Outrage"

Why haven't you shared your damage assessment with us here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x437173

I'm guessing you've at least thought about it... logically?

:shrug:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

58. Don't Change The Topic And Don't Deflect. If You Can't Back Up Your Declaration With Any Substance

than just say so. It'll be ok.

But you so confidently supported the analogy above and I issued a direct challenge for you to provide some insight into what made it such a great point worthy of bouncies and you rock smilies. If you simply don't have any logical reasoning for doing such and no substance to provide as to why it was a great point, or any point at all for that manner, then you should just say so without trying to deflect away from the challenge.

[WillyT]

65. And I Directed A Challenge Right Back Atcha !!!

Whaddya say... pistols at 20 paces, LOL???

HOW DEEP IS YOUR OUTRAGE???

:shrug:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

79. No, Ya Didn't. You Deflected Because You Couldn't Answer The Challenge. Why Not Just Admit Such?

Fact of the matter is you probably recognize that the only reason you praised the analogy above in such a confident fashion is because it had a tone of critique towards me even if it was nonsensical in premise. You applauded it based on that alone while not giving greater thought to the fact that the analogy you were applauding was actually quite silly and nonsensical. I called you out on it and now you realize that you were caught and can't defend your position. Rather than owning up to it you instead are attempting to deflect away with some counter-challenge that actually is ridiculously silly in its relevance. That's my take on what's goin on here anyway, and I'd say chances are it's accurate.

(and for the record, you're challenge is no challenge at all. You want me to click on your silly thread you started that attempts to twist our critique of the situation yesterday into something different just to show some point that doesn't exist? That's not a challenge, it's futility. For the record, the majority of us upset at what they pulled yesterday are not upset because we think there was some monumental damage done to the Democratic Party. Trying to minimize the critique by warping its argument is not relevant to anything. Fact is, we are upset because they completely disrespected the hearings on a monumentally important matter that deserved respect and attention. They sought to steal that attention for themselves by thinking in an extremely narrow minded and selfish fashion. To twist that into a sentiment of 'who cares, it didn't monumentally hurt our party!' is quite foolish to be honest with ya. That ain't the point. The point is that there is a time and place for such actions and this important hearing on Plame wasn't it. Their behavior was disgraceful and it is completely reasonable that Democrats here are upset with such behavior REGARDLESS of whether it is a 1 or 10 on your silly 'damage to the Democratic Party' scale.)

Nice try on your continued deflection though (no it wasn't). I await your defense of your strong position in support of the flawed and silly analogy or an acknowledgment that you did so in error. :hi:

OMC

[Morgana LaFey]

85. Oh, my GOD. Are you fucking serious?

I was going to post, "quit harrassing him; he's simply not going to play your silly games," but I opened this post and my eyes glazed over about the 3rd line, if not the 2nd.

Get OVER yourself, dude! Lighten the hell UP. Breathe. Now again. You'll give yourself a cardiac arrest with all that stress.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

89. Oh My GOD Are You Fucking Serious? ROFLMAO!!!!

I issued a legitimate challenge in response to the premise. My responses since have been perfectly appropriate. You don't like it? Poor you. Not my problem.

But I do really get a kick out of your false and ignorantly conceived assertion that I'm like breathin heavy or stressed or something. I mean, that was just so willy nilly and cute for you to say! I'm gettin such a kick lately out of these personal attacks on me that carry no logic or intellect to them. They're just crackin me up! I mean, are YOU fucking serious? You are too much. So silly in this premise above. Just so so silly.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Morgana LaFey]

94. No, I was being euphemistic

I knew you weren't stressed, technically, but you certainly were taking yourself way too seriously, and by an order of magnitude. Here's a clue for ya: just because you DEMAND something of someone doesn't mean (a) it's going to happen (or should) or (b) you're not way out of line to start with. It was preposterous of you to DEMAND anything of him. But whatever. Glad you at least did lighten up a bit. Your attitude is a bit less obnoxious now.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

103. Here's A Clue For Ya Right Back: The Challenge Was Legitimate And I Was In The Right.

Not really my problem nor concern that you've chosen to stick your nose in and act all upset by it.

Of course the poster doesn't have to answer the challenge but I am of the opinion that a strong character and one of integrity would have done so. I also was not out of line in challenging to begin with. In fact, there was honor in my doing such. Obviously for some god only knows perplexing as shit reason that's rubbed you the wrong way. I don't really care.

Fact is, I bested the poster by calling out the bullshit. I did so tactfully and respectfully. Not sure I deserve your anger over it, but like I said, no biggie. :hi:

[Morgana LaFey]

107. Oh, yes, I'm quite sure you're entirely right about that.

And everything else. Always.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

108. Now You're Thinking Clearly! Feels Good Don't It? LOL

:hi:

[Morgana LaFey]

112. Well, my young friend, if THAT doesn't identify you for what you

are, I don't know what does.

Well done. I couldn't have exposed you better if I'd tried.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

117. Gee, Someone Needs To Lighten Up A Bit, Ya Think? ROFLMAO!

Not sure why you think you've exposed anything other than your illegitimate attempts at attacking me. But you do need to lighten up though if you think a lightheartedly wiseass comment in response to your attacking sarcasm means you've exposed anything LOL :rofl:

My god you're just being too silly here. :silly:

[Name removed]

100. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Morgana LaFey]

114. Nah, I don't use Ignore for gnat-size assholes who are more

amusing than anything else. But thanks for the reminder nonetheles.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

120. Hey, I Can Debate You Civilly Without Calling You A Bitch. But You Have To Resort To Calling Me An

'asshole'?

You act as if you think you take the high road when it is you who is using the low road tactics. Hope you realize that.

[Morgana LaFey]

125. Hey, I wasn't the one who called you an asshole

And I'm actually surprised you're offended. I thought you were amused, and laughing and waving and so forth. I thought you KNEW how you came across.

FWIW, I don't think of people, even you, as "assholes." Just not the way I think. I was just responding to the other poster, and probably shouldn't have echoed his terminology. But again: who knew you'd be offended by a characterization of your own behavior, which I was trying to warn you about? :shrug:

[Moochy]

136. An Extreme Lack of Self Awareness is A Hallmark of these Subthreads Don't You Know?

regarding your suprise: "And I'm actually surprised you're offended."

[Morgana LaFey]

140. Now I really AM in stitches

the hilarity of it all (yes, incl. my part) is just too much.

:rofl:

Thanks, Moochy, for playing the part of Greek Chorus. VERY valuable, and very appreciated.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

138. Actually You Were. But No, I'm Not Offended. I Can Absolutely Be An Asshole. Not The Point Though.

[omega minimo]

146. Well yeah. That IS the point.

And there must be some serious truthtelling here for you to be so focused on disputing it.

:think:

[Lil Red]

148. After over 2 years of reading and occasionally posting on

this site, I can't help but notice that you, OMC, are one of the most judgmental and closed minded "progressives" I've ever encountered. You always seem to be raining on somebody's parade...with a decidedly smug attitude. This will be my last response to you as I have decided you are mainly here to be disruptive.

[proud2BlibKansan]

154. Welcome to DU!!

belatedly, but welcome nonetheless!!

:hi:

[DancingBear]

81. "I'm guessing you've at least thought about it... logically?"

To quote the immortal Maynard G. Krebs - "surely you jest."

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

51. No Logic Whatsoever Can Be Found In That Comparison. In Fact, I Challenge Ya To Show Me What It Is.

[mondo joe]

66. Did Pink Tutu lead to a revolution? Did Pink Tutu even get the anti-war dems

charged up?

There ends the likeness.

She's more like the Terri Schiavo protest clowns.

[DancingBear]

80. So do I,

though I direct my thoughts at another target.

To each their own perception.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

86. Awwwww, That's So Cute How You Think You Veiled That Personal Attack. You So Silly Willy.

I mean, that attack was just so witty and original and everything. I know you must've had to try weally weally hard to come up with it. :hi:

[quiet.american]

10. I stand with them, too. Activism is not about staying inside a comfort zone.

My thoughts at the time were that the protesters displayed true grit in staging their solitary protests in a venue that is supposed to be for the people and by the people.

[MuseRider]

12. Well said WillyT

She is an American just like the rest of us and she has the right to appear as she chooses and fight the fight any way it suits her. She stood up. Nobody marched her out. When I saw it on the news last night I wondered why she had not been taken away and it did not occur to me for a little while that she was treated the way we all used to be treated. Man, 6 years has really taken it's tole.

Anyway, she has the right. What does it matter? I could care less that others think it was foolish, at least she was there.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

67. I thought it was great

and it was wonderful that she WASNT removed.

This "protest" or display or whatever NEVER would have happened
before this November 06.

Although the hearings were anything but boring, this did liven
it up some more.

Sorry it bothers some, but I don't think it hurt anything.

A better hair do (combed hair) would have been nice.

[northamericancitizen]

14. K & R

[TheConstantGardener]

15. The same coward dems who voted to murder Iraqis wont cut off funds

Or impeach.

But the good ones and there are plenty, will win if we keep fighting them and KEEP being a distraction, KEEP being civilly disobedient.

These same jokers who attack CODEPINK would've attacked Lewis and King for not being "Good Negros" and using the legal system to get rights.

[cali]

83. What tired rhetoric

you employ. And you couldn't get more simplistic about the dems if you tried. My Senators aren't interested in impeaching. So are you going to characterize Sanders and Leahy as coward dems?

As for your vile little accusation that those of us who didn't support the distraction provided by the CodePink member yesterday, would have attacked King and Lewis, that's a classic logical fallacy and ad hominem attack neatly rolled into one. Congrats.

[TheConstantGardener]

92. How many Iraqis died today for these tired truths?

Can you count them on one hand? Ten?

[cali]

95. What a surprise, you ducked my question.

Is Pat Leahy a coward dem because he doesn't support impeachment? Is Bernie a coward dem (affiliate) because he doesn't support impeachment?
Do you always take the Forrest Gump approach to complex issues?

[TheConstantGardener]

99. You didn't have anything to say relevant to a conscience and its crying out

[cali]

104. You can't answer a straight question

can you? For some reason you lack the guts.

[Morgana LaFey]

88. Amen

I notice a rather vehement disagreement with your post by some other DUer -- pay her no nevermind. I like your style. Lots. :evilgrin:

[ShortnFiery]

113. What Morgana LaFey said ...

:hi: ;)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

118. I'm Flat Out Stunned You Can Compare That Woman Yesterday To MLK. Stunned. In Awe. Flabbergasted.

I mean... holy cow...

[upi402]

18. I figure the American polity is kind of a

drunken 12 year old just dumped in front of a TV by a shortbus. So gimmicks work, and maybe the chain needs to be jerked at times to get their attention. That said, I'm still amazed Bush was elected the FIRST time, however.

[bobbolink]

21. Too bad they can't tell the difference between a rally and a hearing room.

Many times we who were active during the Vietnam era have been asked on DU what is different, and what our experience was like.

One HUGE difference is that we spent many hours planning actions, and deciding what it was that we wanted to accomplish, how BEST to accomplish that, and, perhaps most important, how to do it in a way that continually strove for peace, rather than dissention.

Then, we proceeded to spend hours AFTER actions, to discuss what happened, how we felt about it, and what worked and what didn't work.

It's very sad that all that discussion doesn't take place anymore--it's everyone for themselves, and do whatever feels good at the time. The sense of fitting action to situation has been lost, as was very well shown yesterday, and the concept of listening to voices who disagree with the action has also been lost.

PEACE is much more than shouting your displeasure, and your own opinions.

PEACE also means showing respect, and hearing other opinions.

PEACE.

[scarletwoman]

29. Bravo! Beautifully said! "PEACE also means showing respect..."

At the very least, show respect for those who are battling our common enemy.

sw

[bobbolink]

32. Yes! It was Valerie Plame's Day, not Code Pink's day.

They have their days, and bravo for them.

Valerie waited for FOUR FUCKING YEARS! for yesterday. It can't have been easy for her.

It was VALERIE who needed to be in the spotlight, and who deserved to have her time, without competing with someone who stood out like a sore thumb.

I can't imagine that Valerie would have treated that person in that way, were the tables turned. She doesn't seem to me to be the type to try to grab the spotlight away from someone else.

Thanks for your kind words. I was very trepidacious (hehehe) about clicking on your reply. For a "peace group", there are an awful lot of really rude and dismissing words.....

Peace to you!
:hippie: :hug: :hippie:

[scarletwoman]

44. Well, I feel exactly the same as you do about this.

We've waited YEARS to hear from Valarie Plame, this was an important event for ALL peace-loving Americans. It ought to have been enough all by itself for anyone concerned with ending the war and bringing down bushco -- it didn't require any embellishment.

Peace to you, too!
:hug: :hippie:
sw

[bobbolink]

34. To add... I guess I'm just unfortunate to remember Joan Baez and her Non-Violence

training.

Could we pleeeez dial back the time machine?

:(

[Morgana LaFey]

91. You're wrong that those discussions don't take place anymore

I've seen many references to them on the internet, usually in organizational areas and IndyMedia, etc. IOW: just because you're not privy to them doesn't mean they're not taking place. Edit: not just discussions but also training.

And you may also be wrong in your assumption that the Code Pink woman was firmly under the auspices (control or at least authorization) of Code Pink, as well.

Now, I don't there was any damage done. BUT, another thing I see missing that I think Vietnam era activists should be INCREDIBLY aware of is that to the extent that something/someone like this DID discredit "the movement," it could very easily have been (and probably was) an agent provocatuer aka: FBI agent or nowadays military psyops, etc.

[scarletwoman]

96. Actually, "agent provocatuer" was my first thought yesterday.

I wondered who in the hell would be so stupid as to be creating a distraction in the PLAME HEARING, for gawdsakes! A hearing we've been waiting for for YEARS! An unveiling of bushco crimes UNDER OATH! What could be more important? Why would anyone want to take attention away from THAT?

Alas, it really WAS a Code Pink person. On another thread there are a couple DUers who have vouched for who she is, and apparently know her well.

sw

[Morgana LaFey]

110. What I find disturbing, is that all of you who are so goddamned

disturbed by her appearance haven't given ANY credence at all to the possibility of her being an agent provocateur.

Now, I didn't think she was, and I'm not surprised others have vouched for her, but it's disturbing to me that given the HISTORY in this country from AT LEAST the 1960s on (and I'm sure that wasn't the first time our groups have been infiltrated), those of you so exercized didn't raise the possibility.

Because there WILL be and have been infiltrators in the recent past (at WTO and anti-globalization protests in Seattle, Genoa, Miami) and we on the left need to be able to sort it out and not get pulled apart as the various groups were in the 1960s, which IS exactly the goal OF that infilatration, or one of them.

So next time you have such a thought, you NEED to make it explicit instead of just keeping quiet about it.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

115. What Are You Talking About? The Poster Just Said They Had Given It Credence.

In fact, quite a few gave the thought credence yesterday but it was very quickly confirmed that it was not an 'agent provocateur' but was in fact a legitimate code pinker. After being confirmed why should those still have given credence and voice such? To do so would've been amazingly ignorant obviously. So I'm not sure what you're talking about here. Several absolutely questioned her legitimacy yesterday and raised the possibility. Guess you didn't see them. But regardless, it was still very quickly confirmed here that she was legitimate.

[scarletwoman]

124. Well, yesterday I didn't have time to post much.

And today, the first thread I read about this incident included posts from people who were vouching for her. Therefore, not wanting to get entangled in even MORE vehement arguments, I decided not to get into that angle.

Frankly, I was glad of the opportunity to revisit that first thought by responding to your post. And I DO know about the history of infiltrators into protest groups. So here, now, is me not "keeping quiet" about this thought.

sw

[Morgana LaFey]

126. Good. nt

[MazeRat7]

22. There will always be those who play chess and those who play whack-a-mole -nt

[tandot]

24. Who was her target audience? Who was she trying to reach?

People who think that this clowning around is a cool way to protest, are already on our side.

If we want to reach the average joe, this is not going to cut it. The average American is neither extreme left nor extreme right. If we want them to join the anti-war movement, we have to have people they don't mind being associated with.

As much as we all want people to accept us as for who we are, not how we look or behave, the reality is that society is prejudiced. That is the reason most of us don't go to a job interview in wrinkled sweat-pants and t-shirt (at least not if we really want to get hired).

Seeing the CNN headline "Ex-Sailor in pink steals Plame Wilson show" followed by a video showing the hearing and an interview with the Code Pink protester made me cringe.

It was the wrong place, the wrong time, and totally disrespectful to Valerie Plame. The media, stirred by right-wingers, will have a field day showing what anti-war protesters look like.

[WillyT]

33. And Most Serious People Will Go Right By It

And get to the substance of the hearing.

You got the substance of the hearing right???

DID ANYBODY HERE MISS THE SUBSTANCE OF THE HEARING???

:shrug:

[libnnc]

35. I didn't miss it.

Crystal clear to me.

[tandot]

37. thanks for not answering my question.

WE got the substance of the hearing because it was important to US. However, the average joe probably did not follow the hearings and right now seems to give a sh*t. A lot of people probably don't even know who Valerie Plame is.

Although a majority oppose the war, they are apparently not engaging in anti-war activities.

Again, what was the goal of her show?

People who did not follow the hearing will definitely remember her clownish behavior. You'll see her all over TV while the reason the hearing was held will be underplayed by the media.

[WillyT]

38. And You're Gonna Lay All Of That At The Feet Of This One Person ???

If it weren't for Midge, every American would now know the true facts in the Valerie Plame case???

Man... methinks you ascribe too much power here.

:wtf:

[tandot]

41. Don't put words in my mouth

They'll still give a sh*t about the Plame investigation. Lots of people just don't care - with or without Midge. However, they surely remember some pink anti-war clown from the left dancing around at some official hearing.

You and some other DUers think it is cool, me and other DUers don't.

I guess we just have differing opinions on what is an effective way to get people involved in ending this war. For most people I know, a pink clown disrupting a hearing just doesn't do it.

[WillyT]

43. It's Amazing What "Clowns" Can Do

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi



The British took him for a clown for quite a while.

Bad mistake.

[tandot]

47. Yes, that idiot is just like Mahatma Gandhi. You are completely right

:sarcasm:

There is no reason to discuss that issue any further. I found the show Midge put on unproductive, you didn't.

[ellisonz]

53. Totally different situation, period.

Talk about hiding behind other people...

There's a difference between dire protest when all other avenues are denied and simple distraction for self-serving purposes.

:eyes:

[WillyT]

60. OK... I'll Play In Your Court...

I wasn't trying to say that Midge is the next Gandhi, but then we don't know who the next Gandhi, or MLK is gonna be do we? Not enough time has passed to judge the effectiveness of current actions. That's the bitch about the present.

At the time Gahndi was widely dismissed as some annoying twerp in a diaper.

So give me your thoughts on what Gandhi or MLK would have said about Midge's protest yesterday. Do you think they would have been outraged???

Just wondering here.

:shrug:

[mondo joe]

63. MLK always conducted himself solemnly and seriously. Find me a pic of him in

a pink tutu.

[WillyT]

69. Don't You Remember...

the racists in this country made total fun of blacks dressing up to be taken seriously.

EVERYBODY trying to effect changes to the established order is taken as a clown until they actually win, and change the world.

:shrug:

[mondo joe]

71. Don't you remember the dignity of MLK? I guess not.

He didn't use clownish antics. He wasn't considered a clown.

[WillyT]

72. No... But Many Of His Contemporaries Told Him To Slow Down...

Don't make waves. Don't make thing worse with the white folk.

Thank god he didn't listen to that!!!

:shrug:

[mondo joe]

74. Not analogous at all. I'll wait for the pic of MLK in pink tutu, or clown costume,

mugging for the camera.

[Morgana LaFey]

97. DIGNITY?

Allowing his followers to get threatened by dogs, and beaten to a pulp was DIGNIFIED? Putting his followers in a position to get spray-cannoned was DIGNIFIED? Spending time in jail is DIGNIFIED?

Get real. Sure the good Reverend himself and many of his followers were DIGNIFIED, but protest and civil disobedience are NOT dignified. Probably never are. It's not about nice, decorous goddamned business meetings. It's about changing society.

Here, chew on this for a while:

"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never has, and never will.” -Frederick Douglass


And if YOU think those demands on power can be made SOLELY in nice, dignified ways, you don't know shit about activism. It takes both: the outrageous, the dangerous, the uncontrolled and uncontrollable; and those nice, "dignified" business suits with everyone wearing ties and (for the women) nylon stockings and heels. The first gets their attention and soften them up, the second does the negotiating. BOTH are needed.

[mondo joe]

147. As a matter of fact, yes. MLK always conducted himself with great dignity.

Going to jail didn't diminish his dignity - it removed dignity from his jailers.

[ellisonz]

143. Wow...a hypothetical and an excuse.

Except Gandhi didn't live in 2007 Amerika, he lived in different time under overtly brutal regimes. You are fooling yourself if you think the comparison is worth anything because it is not, it degrades the accomplishments of MLK and Gandhi without adding anything to the conversation.

The fact is that this is the 5th year of the war so don't give me let the amateurs end it shit, I have enough faith in my Democrats (the ones who voted against the war and the ones who have denounced their vote) to realize that CODE PINK just makes their job harder.

;-)

[proud2BlibKansan]

155. I didn't miss a thing

Good point, BTW!

[SalmonChantedEvening]

30. K&R! Well said WillyT!!

:pals: :hi:

[scarletwoman]

36. I'm sorry to disagree with you here, but I do. I thought it was a stupid & unhelpful antic.

Just take a look at how much discussion is being spent on that pink tiara person instead of on Valerie Plame's testimony. That's a clear measure right here on DU (not to mention the MSM) of how UNhelpful that little piece of tactfully idiotic "protest" was.

Here's what I posted in another (now 240 posts long) thread on this same subject:

No matter whether you are a partisan Dem, or a progressive, or an independent; isn't the bush junta our common enemy? And when our common enemy is under fire and their perfidy is being exposed; shouldn't you support that?

If you want to end the war, and/or impeach bush/cheney; is it not just plain tactical good sense to NOT impede or disrupt or distract from the efforts of others who are already in the process of firing on the enemy?

That protestor clowning around at the Plame hearing was worse than useless. We've waited years for Ms. Plame to be able to speak out, we've waited years for the truth about her outing to be exposed -- this was finally ONE small victory to be had in the course of a long battle.

And some idiot thinks that what Ms. Plame has to say isn't important enough in itself in the long battle against the bush junta, and takes it upon herself to cause a useless distraction. How very UNhelpful.

sw

[WillyT]

40. It Really Didn't Bother Me That Much In The End

I got totally into the testimony, and Midge disappeared for me.

:shrug:

[scarletwoman]

46. But that's not the point. The point is, instead of attention staying on the substance of Plame's

testimony, it's gone to the pink tiara person. How is that useful or good for our collective efforts to bring down bushco?

sw

[Mojorabbit]

56. Actually both Plame and the code pinker

made the news. I loved the contrast. Her testimony and behind her the word Impeach. Subliminal, ie her testimony should lead to impeachment. Win, Win in my opinion.

[WillyT]

73. Great Point... Hadn't Thought Of That !!!

:hi:

[Morgana LaFey]

98. Frankly, DUers argue about worse things

And they spent PLENTY of time and effort and attention on Plame's testimony and all things related to it. Think of these discussions as practice, or a diversion, or a break from the real action. There's no real harm here.

[scarletwoman]

102. I understand your point. However, DU is one thing, the corporate media is another.

Pink Tiara was apparently featured on CNN today -- as reported on another thread (I don't have cable). Was the substance of Valarie Plame's testimony featured? (not a rhetorical question -- not having cable I honestly don't know)

I'm all for guerrilla theatre and civil disobedience. I'm fine with wild costumes. I just think that tactically, the Plame hearing was a pisspoor choice of venue. Why create a distraction at an event that is actually HELPING bring down bushco?

sw

[Morgana LaFey]

106. WHY?

Why do that?

Why to garner more publicity and awareness for your cause, of course.

[scarletwoman]

119. Yes, I understand that also. I'm not disagreeing with the principle behind the action,

just the choice of venue.

Maybe it's my (modest) theatre background -- you don't upstage the principal character during their soliloquy. All the actors are there to move the story along, and you support whoever has the lead role by making sure that when the spotlight is supposed to be on the lead, you aren't doing any business in the background that might take the audience's attention away from the lead player.

Valarie Plame was there in the spotlight moving the story of bushco malfeasence along. It should have been enough in itself, it did not require any business in the background. If the goal is impeachment (as per the pink tiara woman's message on her t-shirt), then why not let Valarie's testimony move the case along without distraction?

sw

[NYCGirl]

121. Thank you, thank you, thank you, scarletwoman, for saying that!

Ever since I saw the hearings that was also in my mind. I've been an actor and I kept thinking, "Damn you! Don't upstage Valerie Plame!"

Boy, if that had been a play, Midge (sorry, I forgot her last name) would have gotten her ass fired so fast. Whoever thought up that action should be kicked out of the organization.

[scarletwoman]

127. Oh thank you for your thanks! I've been arguing this issue all day & feeling so frustrated that

so few people "get it". The theatre analogy finally just came to me and I realized that THAT is what really bugged me from the very beginning yesterday. It was the self-centered attempts at upstaging, it just really made me cringe.

I'd have no problem with such an action if it had been a situation of some idiot politician bloviating away about nonsense -- yeah, guerilla theatre, go for it!

But a star player, a victim of bushco, given the opportunity after all these years to testify about what was done to her -- and some idiot wants to mug for the cameras during THAT?!?!

It was just plain wrong and stupid -- and nothing will convince me otherwise.

sw

[NYCGirl]

130. While I was watching it, I just wanted to scream.

Thank you again.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

122. Exactly. Very Well Said.

If I recall we don't agree all the time, but I'm 100% with ya here.

[scarletwoman]

131. Heh. Well, I do appreciate your support.

Actually, it's a bit of a humbling experience to be on the same side of an argument as you -- who'd have thought? ;-)

Thanks,
sw

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

137. It's All Good. I've Said It Before And It Bears Repeating:

On the issues that matter we (as in any DU'er vs any DU'er) probably agree on 95% of all of them. The majority of us are in fact here with the same goals and same spirit in mind. Problem is we all too often focus on the 5% or whatever that we don't agree on.

In my case, I don't help my personal situation much because a lot of times I don't really post in threads that I know fall into the 95%, since I feel like there's nothing additional I can really bring to them. I find myself then only posting challenges or debateful words in the remaining 5% that is in disagreement. I do so because those are the things I feel are open to debate on here, ya know? I might restrict my posts to those sort of topics more than others, but I have a feeling many others still do post in similar ways. It's more exciting to debate the 5% then to agree with the hundred others with the default 95% right? But we need to remember at the end of the day that each of us more than likely still holds that 95% within us and undoubtedly agree on far more things than we disagree on.

This, however, was just a case where each of our 5%'s aligned with each other LOL

But it's all good. I don't ever hold a grudge or any real hard feelings towards anyone here and take each thread and each post by any poster within any given thread, on its own merits.

Cheers!

:toast:

[Morgana LaFey]

128. Well, that makes sense

I don't agree with it, but I understand your concern about "upstaging" Plame a little better.

But from my perspective, this is exactly what happened: All the actors are there to move the story along, and you support whoever has the lead role It's just that that "support" was in a much broader context than what you'd have liked.

For the record, I wasn't bothered by the Code Pink event, nor am I that adamant about defending it. I DO, however, think that those who are aghast at it don't properly understand the nature of protest and direct action. It's NOT for the squeamish (as I'm sure you do understand), and it's NOT for those who want tea parties or appointments with Congressmen. It's just a different animal and aside from illegal activities (other than non-violent civil disobedience, as taught by Ghandi and MLK, which is basically a spiritual practice), almost anything goes.

[NYCGirl]

132. You know, if Midge had wanted to jump up and down behind Toensing,

I wouldn't have cared in the least; in fact, I probably would have applauded her. I realize that's a double standard, but we'd waited just so damned long to hear from Valerie Plame.

[scarletwoman]

134. Jumping up & down behind Toesing at least would have made some sense.

Act out around our enemies, not our allies. It's not a double standard, it's just common sense, imho.

sw

[Usrename]

161. Some folks are just too easily distracted.

Like shiny, shiny school busses that were submerged in the Katrina disaster. Somehow that image justified the shame and horror of the aftermath.

The media will always move the focus away from the issues. That is the nature of the fight we are in.

I watched her testimony twice and never even noticed the pink tiara woman in the background, but I'm more than glad to be on the same team with that person.

My advice, ignore the media shaking shiny objects in your face. They will not stop, no matter how anyone behaves. Remember the Swift-Boat Liars for Bush.

[scarletwoman]

162. Your reply does not address a single point I made in my post.

If you have a counter-argument to make based on what I actually wrote, then make it. I'm not interested in your "advice".

sw

[Usrename]

163. I thought I did.

It's stagecraft, just like what your post is about, only from the another side of the fence. I have seen the video clips that highlight this person who was in the background.

My counter-argument is that someone could always find something else to use as a distraction if this person were not there, or just make something up out of whole cloth like (insert made up story here). The CODE PINK presence at the hearing didn't bother me at all, and it shouldn't bother anyone else.

How the media behaves with it is bothersome, though.

[KG]

39. glad you get it.

some people still think going hat-in-hand to power and asking politely will change things.

[ellisonz]

45. Two can play the analogy game.

The Code Pink tug was in a rush and the oil tanker hit the seawall and now we have an environmental catastrophe. Just great...

:P

[WillyT]

50. LOL !!! - Good One !!!

We have a catstrophe!!! Were goin ta Code Pink!!!

:evilgrin:

[ellisonz]

55. Do you think wearing a pink shirt actually sends a message?

Please, CODEPINK just makes it harder for serious people to stop the war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._William_Fulbright#Vietnam_War_and_U.S._foreign_policy

May I dare say that this book and the Pentagon papers did more to end the war than the entire anti-war movement.:evilgrin:

[AuntPatsy]

61. I have a feeling those CODEPINK participants might have a bit

of a problem with you attempting to ridicule thier efforts as not being serious?

I believe that the work that have done, the time and money, much of at thier own expense lays claim to just how serious they do view thier actions as do I, they don't just use words which obviously hasn't seemed to help in any way shape or form considering seven years later those crooks are still controlling this country, to believe otherwise is simply naive.

[ellisonz]

144. I don't give a shuck what CODEPINK thinks.

You didn't address my historical argument about Vietnam, maybe there's a reason for that?

May I dare say that Howard Dean and the good folks at DeanFA and DFA have done more to turn popular and government opinion against the war than CODEPINK has done or ever will do. If you want to change the system, it's very often much more effective to work within the system, especially in a "democracy" like ours.

All CODEPINK does is encourage those who are already sympathetic to their cause and turn off the vast majority who are not sympathetic to their cause. Like it or not Medea Benjamin/Cindy Sheehan are not in the mainstream and thus are largely irrelevent besides being a disruption. And no I'm not saying there shouldn't be demonstrations against the war, I'm simply saying that orderly and popular demonstrations are much more effective. The comparison is basically Malcom X vs. MLK Jr, you don't change anything by being a radical. For example, see the March on Washington and count the white faces in the crowd, how many white people do you think would have been there if Malcom X was the key speaker?

;(

[Cameron27]

158. Nicely said

:applause:

[Individualist]

49. I support protestors EXCEPT

when the protestor's focus is self-centered. As others have pointed out, yesterday was Valerie Plame's day. As for Midge, it seemed to be all about "look at me". Her bobbing up and down, nodding, shaking her head, gesturing, etc. were distracting and disrespectful of Valerie.

[goodhue]

54. I'll be there

[TahitiNut]

59. Same ol', same ol', Willy. I've seen the same 'fashionista' sneers for decades.

Yes, the same sneering comments targeted school desegregationists in the 50s. (Sneer) "They're hurting more than helping." (Sneer.) "They're acting like wackos." (Sneer.) "They're embarassing to us 'real' liberals."

The funny thing is that all the sneering came from davenport activists ... sofa protesters ... people too comfortable to risk life, limb, or even a night's freedom from jail. At other times, they'd be called "checkbook liberals."

I only had one thing to say to them: "If you don't like it then get your own fat ass out there and show how it's done!"

Gandhi said "We must be the change we wish to see in the world."

Nielsen said "just sit back and watch TV."

I get really tired of the same ol' Nielsen inactivism. Cowards. Couch potatoE patriots.


Nothing will change unless and until our bodies lie bleeding in the streets. That's the lesson of history, not parade permits and approved signs.

[WillyT]

62. Bravo TahitiNut, Bravo !!!

Couldn't have said it better myself.

:hi::yourock::hi:

[TahitiNut]

70. (grin) It's the lesson of 'American Idol' ...

Sit behind a table and make snarky remarks instead of getting out and doing your best.

After all ... "those people" are weird, right? :eyes:

[AuntPatsy]

64. I seem to recall many people here at du up in arms over

Howard Dean as well saying he wasn't playing by the rules and embarressed those that were? Blows me away how these same people believe that playing by such a rigid and unrealistic set of rules will trully get you what you want in the political world.

I wish we had more Howard Deans and more pink shirted individuals, the media would be hard pressed to ignore larger numbers of such tactics being used if more people were aware of them other than counting on the nightly news to show one everything occuring in this country.

[cali]

87. LOL

Dean was my guv for 11 years, and I can't imagine anyone who would be angrier over the codepink stunt yesterday than the guv- and if someone had pulled that if he was in charge, not Waxman, I can assure you they would have incurred his wrath. Hate to burst your bubble there.

[ShortnFiery]

116. Oh yeah, Dean is a true fashion hound.

:eyes:

[judaspriestess]

68. another case of damned if you do/ damned if you don't

n/t

[LWolf]

75. Well stated!

K & R

[Madspirit]

76. k&r

I have been an activist since the 60s. I sure as hell never intend to turn tweed. I hate the straight, white and uptightness of people. Their heart and their words...that's what counts! Anybody who wouldn't listen to someone because of the way they are dressed is stupid as shit.
I hope I NEVER look "dignified" and I hope I NEVER have a corncob up my butt. The people uptight about this sound like a bunch of fundie RW Sunday school teachers.
...and a tiara goes with everything. : P
Lee *donning her love beads*

[Morgana LaFey]

105. LOL. I like your style

...and a tiara goes with everything.

:hi:

[Irishonly]

77. I Watched The Hearing

I watched it live and then watched it again. I was so focused on what Plame was saying I didn't even see her. My observation must be bad because I didn't even know about it until I read about it here.

[riverdeep]

78. I support CodePink

in general, but not yesterday. Imagine someone wearing a shirt that said 'Plame is a liar', would that be okay? Or it just okay when it's a message that's agreeable?

Like others have said, what is your purpose? The message and tactics have to be tailored to match. If it is to show the world that there are people who don't support Bush and then hope that this allows them to feel freer to let their own unsupportive feelings out, then I guess it's effective. But if your goal is to convince, that's something else entirely. You have to understand how your audience will percieve you. It's like a salesperson, the ones that are most effective over the long haul, are the ones that are most likeable. We are selling our viewpoint here.

Also, we seem to stuck in the same tactics from 40 years ago, shock and protest. This isn't bad in and of itself, but other tactics have to be incorporated as well, for instance economic warfare, buying blue. It was something that went hand in hand with protests in the civil rights era and needs to be expanded and refined.

Personally, I think if you really want to freak people out-have two thousand people marching in business attire. They won't know who to hate as easily. The colorful attire thing is passe.

[Madspirit]

82. Not passe just because you want it to be.

I will NEVER be tweed. Pay attention to the message not the clothes. Don't judge a book, etc....etc....etc...
Don't be shallow, in other words.
Lee

[EFerrari]

129. Passe? Tell you what. You organize national actions and get back

to me with your fashion advice.

[piesRsquare]

142. Two thousand people marching in business attire...

...I think would be fantastic!

[mzmolly]

90. Boy did you sum up my thoughts.

Thanks. :hi:

[tnlefty]

93. The information coming out in the hearing and a woman wearing

a t-shirt bearing the words Impeach Bush Now was amusing to me and she didn't distract me at all.

[TheConstantGardener]

101. She distracted those who wanted to be distracted by it

Who wanted to make a story out of it. Show their true colors.

[tnlefty]

141. I suppose I thought of it more as a subliminal message.

Especially when Valerie Plame made the statement about agents being outed but never before by their own government.

I just don't understand what the outrage is all about. The testimony being given should jar those who watched it and weren't quite certain that Bush** and Cheney should be Impeached, for this and the myriad other outrages that have come from this administration.

I suppose people will be angry with Rachel Maddow for mentioning the Code Pink woman wearing a t-shirt stating Impeach Bush Now in the opening of her show. :shrug:

edit: typo :blush:

[Beelzebud]

133. Funny you use the word timidity here, just as the Dems were doing something important.

They were so fucking timid they brought Valerie Plame up and swore her under oath and took her testimony. Something the Republicans woudln't do in a MILLION years.

So because the rational people saw code pink protesting Plame's testimony as a selfish, narrow-minded, and idiotic thing to do, Democrats are labled 'timid'?

Code Pink does some great work. I've always enjoyed seeing them at the rallies. They need to choose their battles more wisely. There is no need protest Plame while she is finally getting HER day to speak. It was rude. It was inappropriate, and it was dumb.

[TheConstantGardener]

139. Valerie Plame =/= Ending the War

Plame is minor compared to this. And that's the truth. I know you want something to be excited about, but this is a minor scandal in the face of enormous crimes being committed in our names. Sad to say, but true.

[rman]

150. Plame = govt lying about Saddam having nukes - that's quite big

It's a much bigger lie than the one about the incubators that got the previous Iraq war started.

[Poll_Blind]

135. Willy, thanks for taking the time to write this. I, too, had similar feelings....

...that didn't quite bubble up to the level of being a conscious thought. I really aprpeciate that you enunciated that thought for me, and I agree.

PB

[omega minimo]

145. Thank you WillyT.

May I tweak the metaphor a bit?

"We've been tied up to a dock, in a hostile port for a long six years now, and we are trying to get to sea while making repairs at the same time. I intend to continue to push"


The misdirection of the ship of state was set with Ronald Reagan and contrary to popular mythology was not altered by the Clinton Era.

Will DU PLEASE face up to that?

THIS STARTED WITH REAGAN, NOT "6 YEARS AGO"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

:hi:



Don't take my word for it:
http://www.thomhartmann.com

[FogerRox]

149. And I stand with you. AND offer a rec.

[The Backlash Cometh]

151. I think the question should be, who are you trying to persuade?

If you're trying to preach to the choir, then, well done. Bully for her. If you're trying to convince someone on the Right, well, you've just underestimated the enemy.

Do you know, that in the late 90s, FoxNews was very careful to pick the most extreme looking liberals to sit on a panel against a clean-cut looking, traditionally dressed conservative opponent? Why do you think they did that?

I'll give FoxNews credit, because they showed some restraint in their picks.

[The Count]

152. Every significant change in history towards progress was made by committed people

(such as Code Pink). The Waxman commission was possible in part because Code Pink (they made it "safe" for the candidates in 2004 to mention the war and thus win). The word impeachment next to Plame was extremely appropriate - it provided the larger context.
I am sorry that so may on DU are still intimidated by the MSM memes to think that the only dignified discourse is the one kissing bush & GOP ass.(or at least not daring to challenge them)

[Warren Stupidity]

153. You have to be off color to get noticed.

Protests that do not make it on to television, that do not get into the living rooms, and from there into the soft sleepy brains of couch potato nation, did not happen. If it takes a transgendered tiara wearing pink tee shirted protester to get Impeach Bush into millions of living rooms: that is a good thing. Message delivered.

[robinlynne]

156. BEAUTIFUL OP. Thank-you willyt!

[mike_c]

157. Code Pink speaks for me....

I support their right to lampoon the war criminals at every opportunity.

[kdpeters]

159. THANK YOU!!!! I stand with anyone in the crosshairs of control queens

The idea that I should correct, scold, or concern myself with anyone who isn't my child is what I fight against.

There must be a reason. And by that, I mean a GOOD reason.