A foolish act by "Code Pink"

[Morereason]

I have to speak out on this. As much as I support "Code Pink" and many of the things they do, they are way off on their actions in the Plame investigation.
This activity distracts, makes the hearings look partisan, and alienates those who are naive and having their eyes opened. In addition, it sets the stage for FREEPERS to do the same! And because of that it could compromise the commission's ability to keep things on track.

Please "Code Pink", we appreciate you and what you have done, but please be wise about this. The public has had their eyes opened. Now we need to educate them. Your efforts in the Hearings are counterproductive.

We need "MoreReason"

PS. - If you agree please recommend.
Seems we need to have this debate as a grassroots group (DU) :)

[BulletproofLandshark]

1. Whatever

Wingnuts will think the hearings are partisan no matter what.

[Morereason]

2. I don't care about the "Wingnuts"...

I care about getting justice and ending the war. How exactly do you think this helps the hearings and helps to get to the truth and get the truth out?

[BulletproofLandshark]

6. If you don't care about them

Then why does it matter if it looks partisan to YOU? Enough of this "don't offend middle America" bullshit! Code Pink is doing the kind of work that can get our troops closer to being home. My only gripe is that there isn't more of this type of civil disobedience in Washington.

[Morereason]

8. I care about the other 30% of the country that is just catching on

There still is much work to be done. The public is already against the war "in theory". However, as they realize how corrupt the process was that brought us there, that will be what brings this administration down. This act by Code Pink distracts from this level of the process.
It is called Wisdom.

[femrap]

77. Have you read John Dean's latest book,

'Conservatives Without Conscience?' There is NO reaching that 25% of the population....they're incapable of wisdom.

I appreciate the efforts of Code Pink....my mother saw the 'Impeach Bush' t-shirt and loved it. I don't know why you're put off by a message of dissent...I believe a guy by the name of Thomas Jefferson said Dissent was Patriotic.

I'm not willing to have Wisdom at the expense of a Dictatorship.

[AZBlue]

112. Thank you for your wisdom and logic!!

In the OP and subsequent posts.

[EFerrari]

162. So, how many hours do you put in every week?

I'm on a Code Pink email list. I can't even keep up with all the projects these TIRELESS people have going. They have a commitment level that is unbelievable, they never stop working, and you are lecturing them over a SHIRT and a HAT?

Because Henry Waxman is going to be put off his game? That Henry Waxman or some other, idiot Henry Waxman?

Because the freep mind (if such a thing exists) would react better to a business suit?

Because you think, magically, that the 30%ers will ever do anything besides repeat the Republic Borg talking points?

That's not wisdom or reason or even, reality. Despite the Immense Pink Distraction, that hearing went extremely well for us and I haven't heard that Henry is throwing in the towel. lol

[niceypoo]

163. More, GOP lite, "if we do or say this, then the republicans will say that," BS

Our political system is irreparably broken, I am convinced of it when I read posts like this.

[ProudDad]

187. Be careful what you wish for

"The public is already against the war "in theory". However, as they realize how corrupt the process was that brought us there"

The Democrats and their timidity and own personal best (corporate) interests were a VERY important part of the "process".

In addition, most of that 30% you're so worried about "highly approve" of bush's performance. In other words, they're f*ckin' clueless and will follow anyone the TV or their bullshit 'minister' tells them to -- write 'em off...

[karlrschneider]

16. Closer to home? These nutballs have been carrying on for 4 years

and we're still losing 3 troops a day. Dubya is still in the W.H. If that's a success, I'd sure as fuck hate to think about failure.
:eyes:

[BulletproofLandshark]

20. Yeah, people of conscience should just sit back and do nothing

:eyes: right back at you

[MonkeyFunk]

26. How 'bout

doing something constructive, instead?

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BulletproofLandshark]

42. Maybe you should take your misdirected anger and focus on Bushco

instead of trying to show off your keyboard bravado. Oh well, one more for the list.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Donnachaidh]

45. Spare me the MTV generation variety of protest

show up, drop your pants at whatever camera is there, and then slap each other on the back for disrupting.

DON'T bother to CHECK WHAT or WHO you are disrupting.

DARE to be STUPID.

And then prove the MSM and the freeptards were right in the first place.

Yeah, I wanna do THAT. :sarcasm:

[PurpleChez]

191. I too am sick and tired of the idea that we must not offend

the bigots, klansmen, freepers, etc. After years of silently tolerating the "war on christmas" emails and related crap from my RW friends and relatives I started actually responding to them and sending out my own side of things. Maybe not the most monumental act of defiance ever, but it was amazing how quickly people stopped sending me their crap. There is never a call to be unnecessarily offensive, but I'm tired of being afraid to call a Nazi a Nazi.

And, if I'm not mistaken, this is my 1000th post. Hoo-ray.

[liberal hypnotist]

198. I'm with ya!

Let's stop making nice and say and do what we know is right. Code Pink stands for 'something". They are not against Plame or the Democrats. They are ladies with balls. Even Midge got her rights to demonstrate.

[PurpleChez]

221. Yeah. I'll admit that there are time when in-your-face activism

might do more harm than good. But, on the whole, I say 'screw 'em!'

[MonkeyFunk]

14. Many people

who are NOT wingnuts watched yesterday and determined it was a partisan circus, thanks to Code Pink.

They convince NOBODY. They encourage people who already agree with them 100%, and damage any chance to change the minds that aren't already made-up.

It was a foolish stunt.

[BulletproofLandshark]

17. Let people determine whatever they want.

Foolish stunts like this change history for the better.

[MonkeyFunk]

24. And I'm saying

"No, they don't".

Distracting from Plame's hearing was stupid. It makes YOU feel better because you already agree with Code Pink.

Nobody's mind was changed by their silly distraction, and they likely turned a lot of people AWAY from the important message of the hearings. It made the whole thing appear to be a partisan side-show. That may make YOU giggle, but it doesn't help the cause.

[Zhade]

52. Again, stop pretending you know things you can't possibly know.

NT!

[MonkeyFunk]

106. What did I pretend to know

that I couldn't possibly know?

Do you have evidence that the strange gestures of a supposed-transsexual over the shoulder of Valerie Plame would CONVINCE uncommitted people of.... well... er... something, I guess.

The whole charade was ridiculous.

[ellisonz]

120. And how do you know that he doesn't know what he knows?

Because you know better, right?

:puffpiece:

[hfojvt]

133. some claims are basically unwarranted

"Nobody's mind was changed by their silly distraction, and they likely turned a lot of people AWAY from the important message of the hearings. It made the whole thing appear to be a partisan side-show. That may make YOU giggle, but it doesn't help the cause."

"Nobody's mind was changed" NOBODY? Is that proveable without a survey? What if 3 people's minds were changed? Would it be worth it then? Doesn't every little bit help?

"they likely turned alot of people AWAY from the important message of the hearings" Again, is this speculation or is there evidence for that assertion? What is "a lot"? Hundreds? Thousands? Millions?

"It made the whole thing appear to be a partisan side-show" In whose eyes? The DUer's? Tucker Carlson's? Sean Hannity's? Chris Matthews'? Chris Rock's? Any objective non-partisan observer's? In the eyes of 4 out of 5 dentists surveyed?

Doubtless some people will want to play it that way, but the claim is kinda saying "I see it that way, and most people will see it the same way I do". I think that I cannot speak for 'most people', and I believe that neither can most people. Plus, public opinion does not just happen. It is guided and shaped by the M$M and spin-meisters. They will always find or create something to spin.

Hey, I am a guy who complained about anti-Bush signs at our anti-war protest and suggested that we dress up in suits and ties to protest Ann Coulter, but this fits their ideals, and having perused their site, I want to get myself a big pink button.

http://www.codepink4peace.org/article.php?id=347

"People* committed to creative protest against militarism and injustice are CODEPINK.

People who want to influence a shift in the focus of world society and governments from militarism to life-affirming endeavors are CODEPINK.

People who are not ashamed to wear a big pink button, and thereby encourage conversation are CODEPINK.

People who are not afraid to be unreasonable or to be called un-patriotic in the name of peace and social justice are CODEPINK. "

'Creative protest' and 'not afraid to be unreasonable'. Rock on, Codepink, rock on.

[ellisonz]

136. Spam.

:silly:

[Zhade]

51. When did you gain these amazing mind-reading skills?

Oh, that's right - you're just pulling your conclusions out of thin air.

[MonkeyFunk]

107. I think it's reasonable

to say that turning it into a spectacle was counter-productive to the serious business being done.

[bentley]

117. If that's the case

Then they are not looking for the truth. If a chick in pink sways their decision about being partisan then they are not really paying attention. The truth shined though loud and clear with the QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.

Facts are much more important then what someone in the crowd is wearing, maybe the hearing should be closed to the public if a slight attraction is able to sway them away from the facts. IMHO, these are the same 25% who can't see pass the wedge issues and are unable to think for themselves, if they didn't have Fox, Rush and Ann they wouldn't have an opinion.

[ellisonz]

119. Welcome to DU!

:toast:

[Madspirit]

200. Right-On Bentley and Welcome! n/t

[Donnachaidh]

3. which activity? They've done a few things that have given me pause.

Could you clarify?

[Morereason]

4. They have stood up for what they believe and been arrested in the process

They are brave and I think overall helpful, but this act was not helpful.

[Donnachaidh]

7. Do you mean the offices they have *sat* in, or the meetings they try to protest?

Which? Or do you disagree with both?

For myself, I only have one question. WHERE was this *courage* when Congress was controlled by the Republicans? It seems to me that Code Pink is targeting Democrats unfairly. I cannot get behind a group that seems to draw courage from protesting a side that has been fighting for our rights.

If the same *fervor* had been applied when we REALLY needed it - when Republicans were rubberstamping EVERYTHING, then perhaps I wouldn't feel that these protersts are nothing more than another group looking for a photo op.

flame away.

[NYC]

10. Did you miss them standing up when Rumsfeld was

testifying?

[Donnachaidh]

18. one instance - and how many democratic offices have they sat in?

I think the numbers prove out my point.

[Morgana LaFey]

78. there were several incidents, actually

including appearances by Bush at a fundraiser in CA. Several of them there, removed one or a few at a time. It was masterful.

It takes time to build a movement, to have enough volunteers, to get the logistics right, etc.

[Donnachaidh]

91. doesn't seem to take much TIME

for Code Pink to target Democrats doing their jobs.

So, basically what was that first 4 years for -- the years the Republicans were in charge? Take that long for costume fittings? :sarcasm:

[roguevalley]

100. it could also be for the first time in six years that people can get into

meetings. in case you don't remember, most protest places were miles away and in the past, no one was allowed inside meetings.

[Donnachaidh]

152. then WHY are Democrats being targeted?

If everything is SUDDENLY open -- why isn't Code Pink being found in Republican offices?

Does NOT fly. Not at ALL.

[Morgana LaFey]

103. I don't think I understand your point

You DO have one, don't you?

Are you saying that you think Medea Benjamin and all the other Code Pink ladies are infiltrators on the left and really doing the business of Republicans, which would be discrediting Democrats?

Or what, exactly?

[Donnachaidh]

148. the point being that Code Pink is taking the easier route

And going after Democrats that a) won't have the Capitol police come in and clear them out, and 2) actively LOOKING for photo-ops that will promote CODE PINK.

Just as there seems to be a really large proportion of NEW posters here that are rabid Code Pink promoters.

[wryter2000]

93. This is it in a nutshell

As fascinated as I was by the hearings, I kept getting distracted by the code pink person in the back. There must be better places to put the message than in a hearing that was finally getting the truth of Bushco's total lack of concern for national security.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

5. HEAR HEAR!!!! Agree With Your Sentiment COMPLETELY!

:toast:

[Cha]

54. Hi,OMC ,,that other thread got locked

where I slammed your post and I want to apologize for overreacting. Sorry. I shouldn't have gotten into the personal attack zone...mea culpa, my bad. :(

I like Code Pink and I think they love their country as much as we do but there are definetly different ways to view this.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

69. I Respect The Heck Out Of Ya For That.

Thanks for the apology and I agree with you; there are definitely different perspectives on this.

I do want you to know that I overall have held Code Pink in high regards in the past and know full well they have done many things of which they've earned my respect. But it really did get to me yesterday seeing what a few of them did in the hearing, as I think there is a time and a place for such protest and didn't consider the Plame hearing; which is monumentally important in and of itself; to be such a place.

But I understand if you hold a different opinion on it and appreciate fully your civil engagement.

Peace,

OMC

[Gman]

9. What the hell...

the hippies and yippies among the other freaks brought the Vietnam War to an end despite their looks. Let Code Pink do their thing I guess.

Note to those under 45: Don't take exception to the word "freak". We wore the title "freak" with honor back then.

[cgrindley]

12. In your dreams

Hippies and yippies did squat. The Vietnam war ended because the vast bulk of centrist to right wing middle America had finally grown tired of it. No one listens to hippies. Amnesty International is taken seriously nowadays because they wear suits and issue reports.

[Gman]

23. I don't remember seeing anyone in suits and ties at anti-war rallies in front of the

Washington Memorial in DC. The only ties were tie dyed t-shirts.

My point is that Code Pink does little harm to the cause just as the hippies, yippies and freaks did little harm. ONce the middle had a gut full of Vietnam it was over. Similarly, Code Pink opposing the war doesn't cause the middle to support it.

[cgrindley]

79. Those rallies didn't do anything

except stoke egos.

For the most part, and during the early years, I think yes, the counterculture actually prolonged the war.

Look at it this way: if Jerry Falwell advocated a certain position, a person like me would pretty much instantly oppose it, even if it was the correct course of action.

[Swamp Rat]

129. Look at all those egos being stoked!!!!!!!!

:wow:

Look at all those egos!!! x(






Damn! I think I see a few egos gathering THERE! :mad:






And little egos trying to be like big egos!






Jeebus! Soccer mom egos and even a baby ego! :eyes:






An ego in the making!!! :yoiks:






Invaded by Kyoto egos!






OMG! Military egos for peace!






I spotted some yellow-bellied pink balloon egos here!!!






This ego must really bother you!






Having to oppose all those ineffective counterculture, war-prolonging egos must drive you crazy cgrindley! What ever will you do!! :crazy: :silly: :dunce: :D

[The Count]

157. Outstandling reply to the most jaw dropping statement - ever!

[EFerrari]

158. Great pictures, Swampy. I guess I won't stay home today.

:)

This flap reminds of the night there were ten threads bashing Cindy Sheehan for wearing a t-shirt instead of bashing the thug Capitol police for baselessly arresting her.

[proud2BlibKansan]

172. You know I love you

Just thought it was time to remind you once again.

Thanks for the great photos. :hug:

[Morereason]

181. 3.8 Megabytes of pics. You weren't trying to sabatoge the topic I hope??????

I agree with your statement. But please edit, create your own post, or remove you pics. This is unfair to those on dialup. Also you need to add a warning if you post your own topic.

[Swamp Rat]

205. "remove you pics???" ... "sabatoge the topic???"

Please direct your energy toward the poster to whom I responded and others who express the same sentiment.

Since you are new here (I assume this since your profile is hidden), I think you are not yet accustomed to DU posting etiquette. Starting a thread is different than posting in a sub-thread, so your recommendation to start another post with large pix responding to someone in another thread is improper. Also, a post cannot be edited after 1 hour.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Warren Stupidity]

217. swamprat doesn't have to do diddlysquat.

Here is some free (and therefore worthless) advice: you are new and should perhaps get to know the regulars and their posting habits before you go hectoring them about proper behavior.

p.s. code pink rocks!

p.p.s. the dress code is there is no dress code.

[Spiffarino]

184. Yeeeaah!

:rofl:"Ministry of Truth":rofl:

[ProudDad]

190. Counterculture prolonged the war

Good Grief. What utter, complete right-wing bullshit!!!

Were you there? If you are old enough, how many times DID you vote for Goldwater and Nixon???

This is the right-wing talking point that nixon and the rest of the neo-cons at the time used!!!!!!

This is the right-wing talking point that bush is using right now.

Check you posts before trying out such drivel on us...


The war became impossible to maintain because of a number of factors. A primary factor was the Vietnamese PEOPLE. Another was Watergate. Another was the fact that the best of a whole generation of college students was opposing that war and by extension the system that sustained it, scaring the shit out of "the adults". etc. etc.

I started out by resigning from Annapolis in response to that war, I refused to murder Vietnamese for Lyndon Johnson. Then I was one of those "scruffy hippies" marching and working against that war (and all wars).

My ego didn't get stroked but I did know some guys who were killed and maimed in that fucking war. I work against all war as a waste of humanity to no good purpose.

[cgrindley]

215. Okay, ignore reality

protests, rock concerts, none of this crap does anything. It didn't then and it doesn't now. All those protests in the 60's were totally in vain. Pointless. It's worthless and useless. It had no effect on the end of the Vietnam war and all the protests in the world are not going to change Bush's mind on this war. Removing him from power won't even immediately stop the war. No matter which Democrat is president next, they will still have to do a slow reduction. No one will ever take a firm stand against the war. No one. Mark my words. We're wasting our breath.

PS I hate the war. I think it's an illegal war. I think Bush etc should be sent to the Hague to stand trial. But I'm not delusional.

[ProudDad]

224. Ok, we know you're good at throwing

flame bombs.

What's your solution?

[cgrindley]

225. The Amnesty Internation Solution

Sober lobbying attempts to increase the awareness of the center and center right. Once they are on our side, we win easily. Keep the pressure up and then change happens. With this war, we're almost done, but we have to maintain our message and keep our flakier elements under control. We also need to support our more pragmatic democratic candidates--Clinton and Obama. People with the necessary star power to get things done more quickly than even more polarizing voices.

People in suits change things. We have to work with that.

[Zhade]

53. Uh, one problem with your argument - most Americans hold liberal positions.

NT!

[cgrindley]

80. What are you defining as liberal?

If you're suggesting moderately progressive values, then you're right, and some of them fall into the political center and even right wing.

[Morgana LaFey]

81. Oh, my goodness

Spoken like ONLY someone NOT THERE at the time could speak.

The Vietnam war ended because the vast bulk of centrist to right wing middle America had finally grown tired of it.

Uh, not quite. Horrified by it, AND that was helped along considerably by the fact of all those Hippies and yippies whom you think did squat.

[cgrindley]

156. Go ahead, keep fooling yourself

the Vietnam war ended because a) Ward and June Cleaver stopped supporting it, b) Nixon wanted to get out, and c) the asskicking the US recieved became too obvious to ignore.

Burning draft cards did nothing.

[Le Taz Hot]

159. Spoken like a true Gen Xer

You know nothing of what you speak, grasshopper but you are obviously not interested in learning anything from THE PEOPLE WHO WERE ACTUALLY THERE, so, relax and have another glass of Kool-Aid.

LTH

[cgrindley]

160. I'm only drinking Kool-Aid

if I can manage to get my hands on one of those awesome glass pitchers... perhaps if I get ebay... I can keep it on the shelf beside my Stretch Armstrong...

[Warren Stupidity]

161. Uh wait, let me see, yes....

that would be

Total Bullshit

The failure of the draft, a direct result of the antiwar movement, forced Washington to abandon its war in southeast asia.

It was all of those awful hippies and yippies creatively getting their message onto tv anyway they could that create the climate of resistance at home that wrecked the war machine's ability to conscript enough bodies to keep the occupation of south vietnam going. The antiwar movement forced and end to the draft and forced Washington into its policy of 'vietnamization' and withdrawal of our forces from the region.

The fear of rekindling that movement has kept the draft off the table ever since.

[bvar22]

171. "Centrists" and "Moderates" have NEVER lead this country anywhere!

"The Centrists" would have NEVER gotten us out of Viet Nam! They are NOTHING without leadership.
Only AFTER leaving Viet Nam became popular did the valueless "Centrists" follow the crowd!

By definition, "Centrists" are followers.
They are sheep seeking the security of the middle of the herd, ruled by FEAR of attracting any attention. They are perfectly happy to let OTHERS define their VALUES as long as they can escape the danger of STANDING FOR SOMETHING.

What line do "Centrists" say can never be crossed?

*Imperial Wars of Agression?
The Centrists of the Democratic Party went along with this.

*Civil Rights?
The Centrists were happy with the status quo. The activists lead this charge.

*Dismantling RIGHTS protectd by the Constitution?
The Centrists in the Democratic Party helped (and continue to help) with their support of the Patriot Act because it seemed like a popular thing to do.


Where DO "The Centrists" STAND?
As The Center moves every rightward will the Centrists compliantly move along with the herd, lead by the CorpoMedia? Will a Centrist EVER stop and scream, "THIS IS WRONG! I can no longer follow you!"?

If they do stop and scream, they stop being Centrists.

[westerebus]

197. Been there,done that.

I joined the Marines in 1968 after graduating high school. After twelve years of a good catholic education and with a dad who served in WW TWO and Korea what was the choice? Communist were going to destroy us if we didn't fight them over there. Those long haired hippies were all pinko commies who hated our country anyway. Didn't President Kennedy say, "ask not what your country can do for you,ask what you can do for your country"?
The northern most part of south VN is a lot like the southern most part of north VN and that is where I had my 19th birthday. I'm no hero. I was just a grunt. Like the thousands of grunts who served because for the most part that's what we did.
My first anti war demonstration was in 1972 in DC. I couldn't believe the number of people there. It was amazing. The number of Nam vets, the moms, the freaks, the nuns, it was america coming to end the war.
The reason I oppose the Iraq war is that it is a criminal unjust attack on another people by "our" industrial corporate war machine. I've got no problem with self defense and the war in Afghanistan. The patriot act and Gitmo and the rest of the war crimes are an insult to anyone who ever wore the uniform of this nation. And yeah, I'm a moderate. Go figure.
Get the TROOPS out. OUT NOW !!

[ProudDad]

188. Don't re-write history

the Vietnam war ended because of Watergate.

The "suits" were still making big bucks on it right up till then.

right-wing "middle america" NEVER got tired of Vietnam. That's one of the reasons that there's still so much revisionist bullshit floating around. They're still embarrassed about being so wrong right up until the last helicopter flew off the embassy roof in Saigon.

If you want to credit someone, credit Walter Cronkite. When he announced against the war, it was inevitable that it would end -- although it took 7 more years and Watergate to do it.

[cgrindley]

207. But

Kissinger was attempting to negotiate a way out much earlier than Watergate.

[Madspirit]

203. Bull!

HIPPIES WERE THE HEART OF THE ANTI_WAR MOVEMENT. I was there. Were you? The anti war movement was extremely important. It influenced the American people's attitudes and THAT is important to any president. It wasn't just a few nut case hippies. It was everyone we nut-case hippies influenced. The didn't shoot the students at Kent State because we were no threat.

...and what the right says..."all those commie professors helping shape kid's minds toward leftist politics..."...HELL YES!! ....and we had that too. ...and it was good.

...and also something of a United Front with the black movement and the feminists and early gay movement...environmentalists...Earth Day used to be big...and SDS was an offshoot of the Democratic Party, just fyi...and Yippies and Hippies... ...and most of us worked TOGETHER when it came to the Viet Nam war.

We had a draft then. Young men and those who care for them, didn't really have the luxury of the choice of whether to become politically involved or not. The Vote Movement. 21 was the voting age and it was suddenly Awful to Think...they can draft young boys...who weren't even old enough to vote.

We affected EVERYTHING. There really were tons and tons of us...mega tons...large weight amounts...of us...unless you believe the Right-Wing-Asshole Spin.

We influenced OTHERS. That's how the anti war movement affected Nixon.

Issues are complex and you can NEVER just point to one thing and say..."that's it". Lots of things affect change.

...and I think that some times you have to break laws and I remember how the police could use crimes against you too. I have been tear gassed and hauled in, etc. It was par for the course. ...and sometimes you have to go through that if the cause is sufficient.

People who downplay the Great Influence and Total Social Revolution of the 60s and 70s are entirely buying The Spin of the Right...

...and need to go listen to some Grateful Dead, Dylan or Zappa...maybe even The Moody Blues and smoke one...or more. ...and I'm not kidding.

I don't need 60s/70s bashers or apologists. I'm proud of the 60s/70s.
Madspirit

[cgrindley]

206. Nonsense

Like everything else from the 60's it was a bunch of over privileged gasbags who either a) were the wrong gender to die in Vietnam or b) safely in college or otherwise too rich to go to war. It didn't do anything.

The 60's were mostly stupid followed by a huge wave of hypocrisy and greed.

[Madspirit]

218. You're full of it and weren't even there and now on Ignore.

I come from poverty and have been homeless and lived in poverty all of my life. My friends went to Viet Nam or Canada...some died, many came home with PTSD and crazy...a lot of vets on the streets. You have no idea what you are talking about. NONE. ...but you are now out of my life.
Lee

[cgrindley]

220. Great, you're ignoring me

So I can't even refute the non-facts you don't give. Awesome way to debate.

[Morereason]

13. It is not about their "looks"....

[karlrschneider]

28. I was also a proud 'freak' in the late 1960s. We protested APPROPRIATELY

in the proper venues. We didn't create a circus in Congressional hearings that were beneficial to our own position!

Do it in the streets...outside...publically and loud but don't fuck up a procedure that's being done to HELP us!

Valerie's clear message was predictably lost in all the media furor over this idiot woman(?)s antics.

[Morereason]

39. Thank you for your experienced opinion.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Morereason]

75. Can the agressive posture please

I just think that someone who has been through 2 (60s and now) antiwar movements has a somewhat experienced opinion. Sorry if that offends you, gee....

[druidity33]

60. what the?

I must've missed this circus you're talking about. At one point during a break in the testimony i heard people chanting "Impeach, impeach, impeach...", but i didn't find it disruptive at all. Actually i thought i saw Waxman give a half-smile.

Actually i find the self-righteous indignation on this thread a little offensive. It seems to me, none of you paid any attention to CodePink until they did something that YOU DIDN'T LIKE.

If you don't like the way they're protesting, GO PROTEST YOUR OWN WAY... write them a letter, do a counter-protest, write an editorial, whatever...


now i'm gonna do this to you anti-Code Pinkers...

:eyes:

[scarletwoman]

68. "We didn't create a circus in Congressional hearings that were beneficial to our own position!"

EXACTLY! As another proud "freak" in the late 60s, I'm with you on this.

You don't go and disrupt something that's HELPING your side! I can't understand why so many folks here can't seem to grok that simple fact.

sw

[Lilith Velkor]

118. Thank you!

:cry: :hug:

People are being so childish about all this. It's embarassing.

[ProudDad]

192. I take umbrage at that remark

We were NOT appropriate!!!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-krassner/the-trial-of-abbie-hoffma_b_2334.html

[Gman]

227. Abbie Hoffman, Tom Hayden, et al not withstanding?

[Madspirit]

202. Flying my Freak Flag proudly. n/t

[bahrbearian]

11. With out civil disobedience nothing changes.

We must show that we are are not all Sheep and Cattle.

[Donnachaidh]

19. then show it in the APPROPRIATE places.

Like REPUBLICAN meetings.

[libnnc]

22. They're gonna go where the cameras are.

That's how it works.

[Donnachaidh]

27. a photo op at the expense of the reps who are working FOR us?

WOW.

That speaks volumes for the integrity of Code Pink. So where was this fervor when Congress was controlled by the Republicans?

[bahrbearian]

35. In the confines of Free Speech Zones where it is supposed to be.

[Zhade]

57. How about the integrity of the Dem leadership that won't even cut funding for an illegal war?

Maybe Code Pink has a reason to be angry at them too?

[Donnachaidh]

62. then WHY aren't they sitting in REPUBLICAN offices?

NOW and for the past FOUR YEARS?

Could it be that they not only faced prosecution but they also faced NO CAMERAS? :sarcasm:

[karlrschneider]

70. I guess you missed the Senate vote the other day.

:eyes:

[druidity33]

64. it was there...

you weren't paying attention, neither was the media...

[bahrbearian]

30. Its appropriate in any place,, I guess you must be thinking ,

it should just be kept in the Free Speech confines.

[Donnachaidh]

37. not at all. But where was this fervor when the REPUBLICANS controlled things?

Code Pink was around then -- WHY was there NO office sit-ins staged then?

Could it be that Code Pink members were reticent to do that because there would be NO cameras rolling?

This targeting of Democrats for a sound bite and photo op is shameful. We've fought long and hard to not be labeled crazies -- and Code Pink is wiping that out in a few short weeks. And they are targeting the people who LEAST deserve it.

No thinking person is proud of this selfish act.

[proud2BlibKansan]

127. There were tons of office sit-ins in republican offices before November

Code Pink has been doing these in your face protests and sit-ins for over 4 years now. They have gone into many reps' office in DC in BOTH parties. The media has ignored them so no, there aren't a lot of pictures and videos.

Code Pink is NOT sponsored by the Democratic party nor do they seek the approval of the party before they plan their actions. Their goal is to end the war. Period. They could give a shit which party finally is brave enough to do just that.

[Morereason]

21. "Blind" civil disobedience?

I agree, and if you read my replies you will see I support Code Pink generally. But it does us no good when extremeley constructive progress, the hearings, are interrupted. And looking foolish is not necessarily an act of civil disobedience.

Gandi's followers did not urinate on passerbys shoes, though that certainly would have got them noticed, but would not have been productive. Where do you decide what is best? You use wisdom. And they need a little more of it these days it seems.

[bahrbearian]

34. Talk about distractions from the hearings , its these kind of postings

"Hey look over there its code pink"

[MonkeyFunk]

38. Yesterday's sideshow

wasn't an act of civil disobedience. It was just gratuitous camera-hogging at the expense of Valerie Plame and Henry Waxman.

[Donnachaidh]

40. thank you!

exactly what it was all about.

[Morereason]

43. It was foolish. I think they probably meant well. But they need to rethink..

My thoughts anyway. But I agree with your sentiment.

[1932]

15. In a world where, everywhere you look, you see an advertisement or logo,

I'm not so worried that people will be distracted from their work by seeing a POLITICAL MESSAGE.

In fact, if, for example, every NHL ice rink around America replaced the commercial advertisements they put on the boards and under the ice with political messages, I bet fans and players would still be able to focus on the games.

[Morereason]

25. Hey, Why not streak in the courtroom? That will get attention too!

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

90. great idea - and would increase viewership of impt event! n/t

[dogday]

146. As long as you had impeach on one butt check

Bush on the other, I would say go for it...

[Old and In the Way]

216. Clowns Against Bush!

We could dress up as Bozo the Clown and wear "Impeach Bush" T-Shirts. Wouldn't that get our message across to those who might be less inclined to support our position?

[Botany]

29. It ranked up w/ having Fonda speak @ the last rally

Why let the other side have free bullets to shot @ us?

It was stupid .... there is a time and a place and that wasn't the
time or the place.

[Captain Hilts]

105. YES! Having Fonda speak the media reported only her. Mistake. nt

[rodeodance]

115. IT is a Media problem--------NOT the fact that Fonda spoke!!

[ellisonz]

121. It's called "messaging."

And it works, that's how you win elections, and how this war will ultimately end. The right message will get to the right people, and it won't be because of groups like CODEPINK and the revival of Jane Fonda, a very polarizing figure even yet in 2007. Sorry.

[Captain Hilts]

142. Code Pink has effectively used humor and stayed on message. nt

[ellisonz]

219. Oceania has always been at war with East Asia. nt

[Captain Hilts]

141. Fonda and Jesse Jackson were stale. I wanted someone new. nt

[bobbolink]

31. Happy to be a 5th recommend! So sad a "peace group" can't see

the difference between peace and forcing oneself inappropriately.

It was very disrespectful to Valerie, and it was HER DAY!

thanks for your words.... it's really depressing that Non-Violence training has been so forgotten.... :(

[Moochy]

61. A shame one can't unrecommend... n/t

[bobbolink]

211. Peace to you, too.

[liberalnurse]

32. I would love to see someone

start a " Letter of Discontent" to where we can send it to Code Pink and tell them to excommunicate Pinky Midge.

[proud2BlibKansan]

128. Excommunicate?

Good grief. How completely arrogant for you to think that any of us have the right to tell Code Pink or Midge Potts what to do, how to act, what to wear and where to be. What a completely ignorant suggestion.

Code Pink is inclusive, far more inclusive than DU is these days. They would even allow YOU to join, knowing that you made this ridiculous suggestion to excommunicate Midge.

[liberalnurse]

154. How completely ignorant...for you

to think that I and/or the many others, can not tell Code Pink that this Pinky Midge stunt has caused harm great to the movement.

If Midge worked independently on this clown act, without Code Pinks blessing, then absolutely yes, Pinky Midge needs to be identified as a fraud, be completely removed from their roster and abstain from pimping his/herself out as Code Pink. They need to post some sort of disclaimer if Pinky Midge went solo on that act. If Code Pink supported this shameful display of shame on Code Pink....they are a grave disappointment and lack any true message of protest.

[proud2BlibKansan]

169. And how many times do you have to be told she is definitely WITH Code Pink?

It amazes me that you refuse to believe this.

You can write them all the messages you want. I am just saying it is completely naive to think Code Pink somehow disapproves of what Midge did. You must not know much about the organization.

Aren't you one of the ones commenting on Midge's sexuality? Now you refer to her as 'Pinky Midge'. Hmm And to think I used to respect you.

[madrchsod]

33. the theatre of the absurb---i thought it was grand!

the fact that they did`t throw him out is a sure sign that things have changed in the house.

[MedleyMisty]

Eh

If someone is authoritarian enough to get all upset and get their underwear in a wad over this, they were never going to come over to our side in the first place.

[Donnachaidh]

58. your use of talking points deflects from other people's opinions

sounds exactly like the sort of argument Bill O'Reilly or Sean Hannity would do. Perhaps you should check a dictionary on the meaning of authoritarian, and then look up the freedom of speech clause in the Constitution.

Labeling others because they question your tactics is exactly what the RIGHT does. Time to go back to *protest school* -- you've failed. :sarcasm:

[LSK]

41. IT WAS NOT A DISTRACTION

1. Those who would view the hearings as partisan will do so with or without code pink there.

2. They were barely visible. Only once did they make any noise and that was during a recess and they stopped after Waxman asked them.

3. Any news agency that wants to make a story of this is competing with FOXNEWS for Bush Admin whoring prize. Yes I include CNN on this.

[MonkeyFunk]

48. I disagree

On point one, yes, there are people who would view the hearings as partisan. But that doesn't include EVERYONE. A number of people watching yesterday were not heavily partisan, but viewed the hearing as a partisan spectacle, thus diminishing its importance.

As to being 'barely visible' you weren't watching what I was watching. A man in women's clothing and pink hair kept standing up, just over Plame's shoulder, gesturing at times, and putting on a tiara. If you think that was barely visible, I don't know what to say.

[LSK]

49. I watched the hearing live the whole time

and I recorded it on DVD and I am watching it now.

I view it not as a distraction, but as a reminder that we have a war going on and people object to it.

[madrchsod]

65. "hey ------there`s a big pink guy in the room" !!!!!!

let`s see there`s some dope moving his head around to get in the same plane as plames head,the camera man in the top right hand corner fiddling around,and the weird girl staring at who knows what...

funny, i was more interesting in what plame was saying and of course, just how attractive she is.....you know lsk some people can`t focus at all

[dogday]

56. This is a moot point as it is the same people

who voted said Democrats in office to do just that..

Partisan, how quickly the mind forgets... Let's not forget meetings in the basement and having the mic and lights turned off on the Democrats during another meeting...

Worrying about what the public wants, they want impeachment, they want these criminals removed... That is what the American People want....

[LSK]

59. no kidding, what happened to the DU that supported Cindy in Crawford 2 years ago?

:shrug:

[Morereason]

63. I still appreciate Cindy. But I do not support this action

[mondo joe]

86. I support what Cindy did. I do not support this stupid selfish counterproductive

act.

[proud2BlibKansan]

130. That DU no longer exists

I no longer post Cindy's emails here because the last few have been ripped to shreds and Cindy has been criticized on this PROGRESSIVE discussion board.

It seems that DUers support whatever it takes to get the attention of Republicans who vote to support this war, but we are supposed to be hands off of Democrats who support this war.

I know, I don't get it either.

[dogday]

144. Once the Democrats took the Majority

that the idiot liberals helped them get, they now don't want the same protests... Can't have it both ways.... Remember the Culture of Corruption?

[madrchsod]

66. at least someone in the house has the balls to call

for bush`s impeachment..if it takes a guy dressed in pink so be it

[Morereason]

87. That is coming. This is part of the momentum we have been waiting for

[NYCGirl]

50. LSK, I disagree that they were "barely visible". Here's a clip:

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/03/16/plame-covert-testimony

That's not, in my opinion, barely visible.

[rosesaylavee]

44. All for civic disobedience

and understand they need to go where the cameras are - but co-opting ANY of the upcoming oversight hearings is counter-productive to our collective goal of getting this insanity turned around.

Surely, there are other venues with cameras in DC?

Would appreciate Code Pink putting a bit more thought behind their protests other than - 'Hey, there are some cameras! Let's go there!'.

[peacetalksforall]

47. I may get ripped. And I haven't followed this. But, it was obvious that

the guy we saw wearing pink and flaunting a tiara was not the reuglar Code Pink women we associate with Code Pink. I resented him flaunting a nightclub costume and pose in a hearing room of law, deflecting attention from the key witness who we have been waiting to hear from for several years and who needed all the attention possible to get the story out to the Congresspeople and in to Congreasional Record - under oath and with decorum. The event was about dialogue, not stage antics.

The Congressional Record is no longer just paper or microfilm. It is film.

Code Pink might say they are not affiliated with a Party - they have their cause. But their cause aligns with what most Democrats are promoting. Though they have drawn attention to themselves with their shout outs and the color they wear, they also come across as acting with certainty through devotion, decorum, and intellect.

They have never put on a stage show.

I'm willing to see some light that I may be missing. In general, I was left with a bad impression.

I'll have to eat my words, I guess, if the guy I saw is a card carrying member.

[goodhue]

82. Midge Potts is very active in Code Pink

She has spent the last several years as citizen activist musician.

[proud2BlibKansan]

131. Then eat your words

because "this guy" is a gal named Midge and she is most definitely a very active Code Pinker.

And Code Pink usually puts on side shows. That is their deal.

[peacetalksforall]

151. These people conducted themselves in a juvenile way. It was

totally orchestrated to grab all the attention, detract from the seriousness of the subject, and simply deflect the eye and mind of the listener who (if like myself was trying fo figure out who they were and what they were - male, female, pretend Code Pink, real Code Pink) - AND the distraction included wanting to know HOW THEY FOUND OUT WHERE TO SIT AND WHEN TO STAND TO TAKE THE CAMERA OFF OF PLAME WILSON.

I've read all the threads on this subject and have not been convinced that this was a wise or clever move. It was extremely unfortunate and selfish, imo.

[cwydro]

67. I missed this whole thing

is there a link or anything. Please

A close friend had a death in her family and I have been out of the loop.

Please if anyone reads this and can bring me up to speed. Thanks. Pm me or post here.

[Individualist]

73. See the following thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=434112&mesg_id=434112

Photos are included in some of the posts.

[cwydro]

116. Hey thanks.

:hi:

[NYCGirl]

76. Here's some film — people are discussing the person in pink:

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/03/16/plame-covert-testimony

[xchrom]

71. code pink -- i LOVE you! -- just keep on doing WHATEVER it is you do.

[madrchsod]

72. opps-my BIG mistake

midge potts was the code pink woman yesterday....

[The Doctor.]

74. These particular procedings should appear to be as sober as possible.

There is no need for code pink to put pressure where pressure is already being applied.

It's great when they are a presence at the SOTU, press conferences, and other appearances where the Neo-cons would be embarrased by the reminder that there is a human cost to the war and people that openly despise them.

The Plame hearings are NOT a place where they need to put pressure on anyone, the pressure is already there and they then become a distraction.

The OP is right.

[AuntPatsy]

83. I still feel that the act did not cause anyone who was seriously

interested in the hearing any true distraction. Some people believe that the act somehow was a distraction from Valerie's testimony. I have to disagree, those that wish to find a distraction as in "Media" and those against her from the start would easily and have already found ways to downplay the importance of yesterday's hearings, I heard already some talking heads simply saying the hearings were a waste of time and tax payers money having little else to use some might use the Pink shirt but the point is, if you were against her yesterday, you remained so, there has been plenty of information and pretty much loads of proof that this adminstration was involved not only with attempting to discredit Valerie and her husband from the beginning as well as many others that have been critics to their schemes..

Enough already, if someone felt the pink shirted individual to be a distraction from such powerful testimony yesterday than in my mind they obviously have a problem with staying focused on what honestly matters..

By the way, it DOES matter what her or his shirt said, because what was done to Valerie as well as the many other things done by those in this adminstration concerning so many issues, those words "Impeach Bush" should be shouted and repeated daily as well as bill boarded in whatever manner it can be until justice can trully be served....

[Nite Owl]

84. I agree with you

Code Pink does some great things but hearings are not the place to act out. It was distracting, the hearing was saying what needed to be said and I felt it was inappropriate to be there. If this was last session and the cons were in charge then maybe but they would never have had this hearing. The message from the hearing was diluted by Code Pink acting like clowns. And yes we do need to please middle America, they are the ones that are just waking up, it's the message that needs to get out and it's serious.

[Divine Discontent]

99. WELL

They had their reasons they think it was cool...

I think it detracted from Valerie Plame's time in the spotlight, I totally agree with their shirt slogan however! :)

www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<--- get impeachwear!

[nosmokes]

85. keep on code pink!

radical times deserve radical measures.

[Morereason]

88. I don't see anything "radical" about this action.

[nosmokes]

96. more radical than what anyone else is doing, eh?n/t

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

89. I think what they did was ballsy as hell

And you can take that pun any way you want to! :rofl:

What you don't seem to realize is, until recently that person would have been arrested on sight before they got anywhere NEAR those cameras (that is to say, if the Republans were still in charge). That fact alone speaks volumes toward how much things are changing.

Suck it up. These things are needed if we're to survive the storm.

[LWolf]

92. I disagree.

I think that Code Pink, who has been publicly denouncing GWB and his administration all along, should keep right on doing so. I hold the president responsible for crimes committed by his administration. Do you?

How would the 1st decade of the 21st century have been different if Congress had done so from the beginning? If Congress had been doing their job all along, perhaps Code Pink wouldn't have to work so hard to point it out to them, would they?

Why suddenly become silent and invisible when the administration might finally be held accountable?

Of course, I thought that escorting Medea Benjamin out of the '04 Convention so that what I perceived to be a pro-war message thread throughout the proceedings wouldn't be opposed was disgraceful. I thought that the complicity shown by too many Democrats Congress in voting repeatedly for the Bush agenda to be dishonorable.

I want Code Pink to keep it up, to step up the pressure every day until the gang of criminals in the WH is finally gone.

[proud2BlibKansan]

132. Amen!

I completely agree and I admire everything Code Pink does.

[Tom Joad]

94. Democratic "Leaders" applaud Hillary, who promises to continue the Iraq occupation for years

to come, Code Pink will be protesting and making the political lives of such people very uncomfortable, and if possible, even miserable.

People like Hillary are not "timid". they are vicious supporters of war and mayhem in the Middle East who support empire, at the expense of working people, at the expense of millions of people in the Middle East whose lives will become more impossible because of the policies supported by politicians who listen only to corporate power, to those who lobby for war.

[nosmokes]

97. yeah, if that bone don't choke the hound dog then WTF will it take? and

it's no wonder she's not apologizing for her vote to go to war. she and billy must have some raytheon stock or sumpin.

[Lena inRI]

95. Stop squeezing a quarter between your cheeks, "Morereason". . .

as Loretta LaRoche says so well. . .the court jesters. . .the fools on the hill. . .the utterances of children have far, far more WISDOM in their SIMPLICITY than anything being said by that Plame hearing Friday from the likes of Georgia Congressman-my-ass Lyn Westmoreland who quibbled about Valerie Plame's political party affiliation as one of his "numerous questions". . .he's the FOOL, not the Code Pink protester. . .

Don't you get IT YET????
:nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

102. I Don't Believe There's Any Rhetorical Law That Says They Both Couldn't Be Fools.

And your attacks on the OP for merely holding a different perception on what happened than you do are completely inappropriate. Here's a bit of wisdom for ya: Just because someone holds a different opinion on something than you do does not mean they don't 'get it'. It is amazingly arrogant and short-sighted to put forth such a premise, in fact.

[BeFree]

111. Don't you get it?

Congress voted to spend billions more on the occupation of Iraq.

According to you, just because they have a different opinion about spending more money on Iraq we shouldn't criticize them. Following your premise we should never criticize anybody who holds a different opinion.

It's a mind crime to suggest as you do.

Besides, all this blather about code pink is just what rove ordered up. All code pink and nothing about the crimes that he has foisted upon us.

Oops, there I go criticizing someone for having a different opinion. Well, I get it, but most people here on this thread don't. Oops, there I go again.

[dogday]

143. Funny you should mention this..............

:rofl:

[gatorboy]

98. ...

[Kurovski]

101. Kick.

Previously recommended.

Not only foolish, but redundant. Waxman, et al, were moving to accomplish the goals of Code Pink.

[mike_c]

104. code pink are heroines of the progressive movement....

I disagree with you. The complacent American herd needs to see our anger.

[Morereason]

108. They need more exposure to the truth so they can join us in expressing that anger

I can't believe anyone can think that someone distracting a camera in a pink shirt is anywhere near as important as these hearings. The last week has been a landmark. It has been about scandels, Juries, and hearings, AND NOT ABOUT CODE PINK!

Those who hang onto the war do so because they hold on to some bit of trust that underneath it all Bush went to war for their good. They need to learn how far he has strayed and what he is willing to do.

[BeFree]

110. Distracted?

You seem to be wholly distracted. All you do is go on and on and on, about a code pink tee-shirt and not a word about the assholes in the room who would put people like us in the slammer the first chance they get.

You don't seem to get it. Well, get it! Then get back to us, eh?

[mb7588a]

109. and i can report,

their allies on the hill are friggin' tired of it too.

They often interrupt people trying to make a rational point. They need moe.... tact.

[Name removed]

113. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Morereason]

122. Well, obviously many others on DU agree as this is near top of greatest

Your post is offensive and doesn't convince anyone of anything.

[mondo joe]

123. If the activity doesn't draw attention, why do it?

And if it does draw attention, it is distracting.

[proud2BlibKansan]

135. So let's just do nothing

Gee, isn't that what bushco wants, for us to sit and do nothing??

[mondo joe]

153. False conclusion. "Don't distract from Plame's testimony" does not equal "do nothing".

Disrupt and distract away - but not from the people doing the right thing.

[proud2BlibKansan]

173. I wasn't distracted

This really blows my mind. Progressives on a progressive message board are actually speaking in favor of limiting free speech by those speaking out against the war and the bush administration.

It is truly mind-boggling. I am sure the right is just loving these long threads condemning Code Pink.

[mondo joe]

178. Bullshit. No one is in favor of limiting free speech. NO ONE has said Pink Tutu

should have been legally prevented from making an ass of herself.

It's just too bad she did it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

179. Since she brought attention to Code Pink and their work,

I am glad she made an ass of herself.

I am reminded of many women throughout history who were not afraid to make an ass of themselves for a cause.

GO MIDGE!!

[mondo joe]

180. Too bad she did so at the expense of the Plame testimony.

She's no better than the Fred Phelps gang or the Schiavo protesters.

[proud2BlibKansan]

186. Well since I have an adult level attention span,

I wasn't distracted in the least. :)

[mondo joe]

208. If she didn't attract attention, then she was ineffectual.

If she did attract attention, she was a distraction.

[sce56]

114. Why What did she do? Was she ejected as all who have dared to speak out in front of Shrub!

I see nothing wrong in fact it appears to me The lady was doing a fine job of just showing her message with out getting tossed from the hearing!

[shance]

124. THREE CHEERS FOR THE AMAZING MEN AND WOMEN OF CODE PINK!!!

The courage, commitment and care the individuals of CODEPINK continually show their country and other Americans is light years more significant than the armchair activists and naysayers who demean and diminish their successful and inspirational acts of true love and compassion.

[proud2BlibKansan]

125. You are completely missing the point

Code Pink disrupts. They don't just protest, they do actions. They do street theater and musical performances and dress wildly to get attention. That's their deal. No one is twisting your arm to force you to join them or to express approval of their activities.

If you don't realize this is how Code Pink is, then you don't know much about them.

It is also unrealistic to expect them to conform to anything people on a message board think they should be. That goes completely against the spirit of their organization. They are not the least bit concerned about being a distraction; in fact that is their point.

If you disapprove of the war and want to get involved working to end it, you need to realize Code Pink will do the in your face protests, like Midge did yesterday at the Plame hearing.


It's a big tent.

[mondo joe]

126. Wrong time and place.

Absolutely.

[proud2BlibKansan]

134. They don't care

Don't you get it? Of course it was the wrong time and the wrong place. That is the perfect venue for Code Pink.

The most fun I have had in years was with Code Pink last August when we disrupted a speech where Karl Rove was the headliner. Fancy hotel, $2500 a plate dinner and Code Pink was there to welcome KKKarl to Austin, TX. And the comments we heard from the republicans in black tie and fancy evening gowns at that event were oh so similar to the comments posted right here in this thread. See, that was the wrong time and wrong place too.





And this is Willie Nelson's wife Annie with the Code Pink police demanding Karl be placed under arrest.

[mondo joe]

155. And you see no difference between disrupting Rove's dinner and Plame's testimony?

That explains a lot.

[proud2BlibKansan]

170. No I don't

In fact, I see a Code Pink presence as more relevant at the Plame hearing, since her story is such a big part of how we were lied to about the reasons for the illegal invasion of Iraq.

[dogday]

145. Never a wrong place or time as long as people

are dying in an illegal war....

[Morereason]

175. So you are essentially saying they should distract for distractions sake?

Respectfully, no.
I don't go for that. I do support Code Pink overall. But they need to have strategy and be effective.
I think they do have a strategy.

The dialog on this board is so like the kind of dialog that Bush does. "You are either for us or against us!". No, I am not "against" code pink.

I appreciate many things they do. There are other things that I may not agree with that they do. But in this one case I feel they are actually being unhelpful.

I KNOW there are Code Pink on this board and they are hearing the dialog. This is an appropriate place to have it.

[The Wizard]

137. Pandering to the middle and

appealing to the middle are quite different.
The hearing chaired by Henry Waxman with Valerie Plame as the star witness may not have been the best place to draw attention from the proceedings. Everyone should have had a focused view of the hearing. I may agree with the message, but I disagree with the venue.

[The Wizard]

138. So everyone is assuming

the cross dresser in the pink shirt was affiliated with Code Pink. The question: Who would benefit by a distraction from Valerie Plame's sworn testimony?

[Kurovski]

139. Someone elsewhere claimed she's a republican

not that that automatically makes it a problem.

Anything's possible these days.

Edit: upthread it is claimed that she has been an active member of Code Pink for a while. That's no guarantee of anything, either.

[Senator]

140. On The Contrary -- Far Less "Reason" Is What We Need To Be More Effective

Code Pink managed to get the word "Impeach" viewed by perhaps millions of Americans. And to have that possibility associated with the Plame scandal. Even if it were only red meat for the new-left, net/grassroots base -- and it was far more -- that would be more valuable to our side than simply the testimony of Ms. Plame (great as that was), or rather the sound bites of it which is all most will ever view.

But beyond this single example, what you are suggesting is decidedly not based on reason. It is based on fear (of "look{ing} partisan") and on a desire to manipulate ("educate") the public.

(And let me say here that it is not my intent to single you out, as the attitude revealed by your post is far too pervasive on the left -- particularly among the Dem members of the DC/Euphemedia Aristocracy. It might not be going too far to say that this posture -- one of a fear-based desire to manipulate the public/electorate -- has defined the Democratic Party for decades now; directly contributing to the sorry state of affairs we see in our once-great nation.)

For far too long, we on the left have labored under the delusion that we can "teach our way out" of any problem or condidtion. That there is some magical amount of information, that once imparted, will open the floodgates of understanding, agreement, and support from the "naive" (i.e., stupid, ignorant) public/electorate. Even setting aside the obvious patronizing, insulting attitude that projects -- it simply has not worked and is not likely to now, or perhaps ever.

It has long been the case that the public has neither the time or inclination for such instruction. Sadly, a declining attention span and well-funded neofascist propaganda has trained the public to accept only the broad strokes, the shallow image, the slogans and buzzwords.

Reason (and sanity) demands that we recognize this and stop repeating the same behavior expecting a different result.

The same is true for our ingrained habit of fearing fear itself. This mythical "backlash beast" is another creation of the beltway babblers. The remarkable consistency with which every revelation of Repub atrocity is accompanied by a warning for "Dems to be careful"..."not to overreach"..."avoid being too partisan" (for a political party?!?) would be humorous if it were not so tragically effective.

Too "careful" to stand up to stolen elections or to filibuster radical appointees. It's now come to the point of putting impeachment "off the table" and becoming complicit with torture and war crimes. Bill Clinton has it right when he says "The public will opt for strong and wrong over weak and right every time." And too weak to even object to bushcheney is too weak to confront any problem, let alone terrorism.

It's the LieberDems in DC that are acting foolish and risking too much, not Code Pink.

---

[bvar22]

165. Kudos!

Well Said!
Wish I could rec individual posts!
:patriot:

[Phentex]

189. Exactly!

The days of being reasonable are long gone.

[dogday]

147. I believe in the Constitution of the USA and it

states the people shall have the right to redress their government for grievances. The people have a right to peaceful protest.

Now which law was broken here exactly?


Are we now deciding when others can exercise their constitution right to peaceful assembly and protest?

Not me, count me out of these posts that act like people can't exercise their right to protest, no matter who or what it is about....

[Hepburn]

149. IMO...

First, the conduct of one person does not taint an entire group.

Second, this was a serious Congressional hearing about serious issues.

Third, although the conduct did not offend me personally, IMO, it was out of place.

[kdpeters]

150. I'm stunned

How could you turn on your friends? For what? Democrats? Politics? Appearances? How could you?

[Morereason]

177. LOL, nobody is "turning on them" It is not "if you aren't for us you are against us" That is Bushway

This is a forum. Code Pink has representatives here. This fight is all of ours. We have a right, and need, to discuss.

[kdpeters]

183. If you're going to respond with pedantic silliness. Don't respond at all.

Capice. Serious responses please. And that means no lecturing me on the obvious.

This is a forum. I have a right and a need to set boundaries with what I will and will not put up with.

Thank you for respecting that.

[specimenfred1984]

164. Tell that to the dead soldier's families

Tell them just how upset a war protester made you.

[mondo joe]

166. Tell them how Pink Tutu distracted from the testimony of another Bush victim

whose life was endangered by the administration, and how Pink Tutu was mugging and clowning during testimony to Congress by that person.

[specimenfred1984]

167. I saw it on TV, why'd the camera person show it?

Why didn't they just zoom in on Plame Wilson? It's TV land, where fascists sell whatever they can sell and the more absurd the better. Six more people died yesterday, did you just talk about pink tutus all day or did you think of a way to get national attention for the anti-war message?

[mondo joe]

168. Because Pink Tutu kept shifting to get in the frame. It's a studied art.

And I think the Plame testimony is VERY important in terms of ending the war.

All the more reason to support full attention on her testimony.

[Skidmore]

174. After seeing this protest live and watching replays and interviews, I've

come to agree with you, mondo joe. Valerie Plame's testimony was protest itself and did not need additional theater. Her message is being obscured by some ill-conceived buffoonery on the side. I wholly support Code Pink and greatly appreciate their efforts, but this was one time to stand aside and let the event speak for itself. The subject of this hearing should have only been Valerie Plame and not Midge Potts.

[lazer47]

176. Absodamnlutly

That is called hitting the nail on the head

[Spiffarino]

182. I recommend, but I don't agree. Screw the Freeptards.

I'm recommending because this is a debate we should have.

First, a CP demonstrator looking cute in a pink tee isn't a distraction to old pros like Conyers and Waxman. They've seen all there is to see in Washington and probably didn't give a shit.

More to the point, Freepers and their enablers in the Crazy Right have been denying the truth about Plame-Wilson, her job and her mission for years. The Freeps are going to wail and bitch and lie and hatemonger no matter what happens because this scares them. It's doing damage to their dream of total political control. It's emboldening their enemies (that would be us). They believe politics is war and will do anything they can to win it, so yes, a protester in a pink tee shirt will become fodder for them. As for mainstream America, she'll come off as a bit of a nut. So what?

Think of the contrasts. Plame-Wilson was very conservative in her appearance. She was forthright, concise and righteously indignant. If anything, her appearance alongside the CP protester made her look more "normal" and credible.

[Neshanic]

185. The "educating the masses" gig. Yes, that's exactly how it works.

That person can do whatever they want.

As far as re-education, will there be cliff notes handed out to the "public?"

[verse18]

193. Morereason, please tell us what you have done

to draw attention to the anti-war movement besides posting judgments of other people's actions on an anonymous website.

[northofdenali]

194. Some folks just want the spotlight for their "15 minutes" -

I just don't see it as that big a deal. Fuck the wingnuts and the poor, probably abused, horse they rode in on. MoreReason, we are THE grassroots group - otherwise, we wouldn't be talking about this, because we'd all be in lockstep with the LEADER, right? :hug:

I'm off to look at some land - heck, it's only 18 below!!

Code Pink will do what it's designed to do - get attention, be "in your face", and maybe, maybe, change a few minds. Sometimes you screw up, sometimes you don't! :P

[jberryhill]

195. "The Democrats Are Worse Than The Republicans!"

That's a pretty clear message from this video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ME29Kcrm-jA

[RagingInMiami]

196. I disagree

It's about time that the people are getting involved with politics, proactively trying to change the system, rather than sitting at home and watching the system work itself.

The madness has gone on too long for groups like Code Pink to simply take a step back because the system finally appears to working. This whole attitude about not wanting to "alienate those who are naive" is the reason we're in this madness to begin with. If enough people raised hell in the beginning of this war, then maybe those naive people would have had their eyes open long ago.

So more power to Code Pink.

[Error]

199. What we really needed was the Spice Girls

to cause a ruckus and prove that Girl Power is for real!

[Madspirit]

201. NOT MTV

I am not of the MTV generation as someone above accused protesters of being. I protested the Viet Nam war and I did it in love beads and tie-dye. If there is someone out there who would be against the war but then upon seeing a Code Pink person, changed their minds...fuck 'em...they wouldn't have stuck with us anyway.

You go Code Pink! I am proud of you.
Lee

[Madspirit]

204. Hippies and Yippies....Oh My...

Yes, I am posting this twice in one thread it pisses me off so much. Especially coming from young puppy dunderheads who weren't even around during the Viet Nam war. Ewscray ouyay:


HIPPIES WERE THE HEART OF THE ANTI_WAR MOVEMENT. I was there. Were you? The anti war movement was extremely important. It influenced the American people's attitudes and THAT is important to any president. It wasn't just a few nut case hippies. It was everyone we nut-case hippies influenced. The didn't shoot the students at Kent State because we were no threat.

...and what the right says..."all those commie professors helping shape kid's minds toward leftist politics..."...HELL YES!! ....and we had that too. ...and it was good.

...and also something of a United Front with the black movement and the feminists and early gay movement...environmentalists...Earth Day used to be big...and SDS was an offshoot of the Democratic Party, just fyi...and Yippies and Hippies... ...and most of us worked TOGETHER when it came to the Viet Nam war.

We had a draft then. Young men and those who care for them, didn't really have the luxury of the choice of whether to become politically involved or not. The Vote Movement. 21 was the voting age and it was suddenly Awful to Think...they can draft young boys...who weren't even old enough to vote.

We affected EVERYTHING. There really were tons and tons of us...mega tons...large weight amounts...of us...unless you believe the Right-Wing-Asshole Spin.

We influenced OTHERS. That's how the anti war movement affected Nixon.

Issues are complex and you can NEVER just point to one thing and say..."that's it". Lots of things affect change.

...and I think that some times you have to break laws and I remember how the police could use crimes against you too. I have been tear gassed and hauled in, etc. It was par for the course. ...and sometimes you have to go through that if the cause is sufficient.

People who downplay the Great Influence and Total Social Revolution of the 60s and 70s are entirely buying The Spin of the Right...

...and need to go listen to some Grateful Dead, Dylan or Zappa...maybe even The Moody Blues and smoke one...or more. ...and I'm not kidding.

I don't need 60s/70s bashers or apologists. I'm proud of the 60s/70s. ...and I will wear what I want where I want to.
Madspirit...NEVER Seen in Tweed.

[Danger Mouse]

209. DU is tearing itself apart, and this toasty little flamewar is just another shot in the war.

It just gets uglier and uglier, folks...

In any case, I agree with the OP. Valerie Plame needs to be heard. I don't understand what was accomplished by distracting from the hearing. Yeah, I understand that they want publicity and everything, but this just seems like a counterproductive act in this case.
That's just my opinion, but feel free to belittle and insult me for it, since that seems to be the way of things in this thread.

[karlrschneider]

Well, in my poll, only 36% thought she accomplished something useful:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=437489&mesg_id=437489

[Danger Mouse]

223. I checked the poll and the numbers have gone down, even, from when you posted this.

Thank you, though :)

[Major Hogwash]

210. It was the testimony that was important - not the fact that it was televised!

Geezuz, get a grip!

If Valerie Plame Wilson had been uglier than a mud hen, would you have cared this much about the stupid television images?

Or doesn't that Code Pink person have a right to attend a hearing such as that Congressional hearing?

I think that if you were to ask Valerie Plame Wilson what her opinion is, she would say that she spent the last 20 years of her life working for the CIA in order to ALLOW people like that Code Pink person to attend Congressional subcommittee hearings and dress any damned way they want!!

This is America, after all.

Man, the next thing ya know, you guys will be telling the rest of us to all get our hair cut short just so Hannity won't refer to us as "longhairs" on his program - just so you can pretend that the 30% of the brainwashed Bush supporters may somehow have an epiphany and agree with us for a change.

Ain't gonna' happen, pal.

They are like cult members - they need deprogramming at this point.

[w4rma]

212. I'm glad she was there. I'm glad the C-Span cameraman included her in the frame. (nt)

[earth mom]

213. BULLSHIT! If the founding fathers cared what anyone said this country wouldn't exist!

This thread is a total joke and recommended by the 76 freepers online in the past 24 hours. :eyes:

Code Pink is working for the people-unlike the a$$holes on both sides of the political fence in D.C. who only serve their corporate masters! So quit with the meme that the self serving corporate media whores, the DLC/DINOS and rethuglicans are trying to feed everyone! :grr:

[trumad]

226. I agree a 1000 percent with you...

but I don't disagree with those who think the Plame hearing was not the right place for a protest.

mho

[Madspirit]

214. Emma Goldman

Emma Goldman would have been Pink and Proud:

"If I can't dance, I don't want to be a part of your Revolution."--Emma Goldman

How dare any of you diminish another person's efforts, especially you of the Armchair Preacher's Contingent. What war have you ended?

If there is someone out there who won't listen to important words because a protester is wearing a pink tiara, sounds like their problem, they would never REALLY listen, they certainly wouldn't "get" it and they could never be trusted anyway. The corncob up their ass will trip them up.

Eccentrics, weird-os, transvestites, freak flag flyers...not welcome? Sounds like you just want to BE a Republican.

Lee *Proudly NEVER a member of The Republican Dress Code Police wing of the Democratic Party*

[Danger Mouse]

222. Emma Goldman, eh?

I was just thinking of the musical 'Assassins'...ever see it?