Flag, noose exhibit angers veterans group

[Judi Lynn]

Flag, noose exhibit angers veterans group

Some say the display at a Tallahassee art museum is offensive to Southern heritage.

Stephen Majors | the Associated Press
Posted March 17, 2007


TALLAHASSEE -- A Confederate flag hanging from a noose on a 13-foot gallows will remain on display, after a Tallahassee museum rebuffed requests Friday from the Sons of Confederate Veterans to take it down because of what the group feels is an offensive affront to Southern heritage.

The display, titled "The Proper Way to Hang a Confederate Flag," is among 14 pieces of artwork -- all by black artist John Sims -- that the group wanted removed from display at The Mary Brogan Museum of Art and Science.

The museum said it was standing by Sims' work, part of a larger exhibit called "AfroProvocations," because it wants to inspire dialogue in the community about a symbol that engenders a diversity of strong responses. It has been on display since Feb. 26.
(snip)

Hurst said he was unaware of the exhibit -- which also contains a painting of Sims and a noose in front of the flag, and the flag juxtaposed with voting booths from the contested 2000 election -- until a newspaper reporter contacted him earlier in the week. He then showed up at the museum to protest the display and asked for it to be removed.
(snip/...)

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/state/orl-flag1707mar17,0,3997778.story?coll=orl-news-headlines-state

[saigon68]

1. Its not a Veteran's Group

Its a Racist Front for Discrimination and Intolerance

[w4rma]

5. Yup. I highly doubt there are any Civil War veterans in it. (nt)

[cgrindley]

10. Ditto "Daughters" of the American Revolution

None of those old biddies are anywhere near 230 years old.

[sutz12]

7. First thing I noticed, too....

Sounds like an attempt to legitimize them beyond who they really are. As a veteran, I resent that.

At best, they are a "historical society." One with a decidedly racial and subversive agenda.

[mcg]

20. A photo of the exhibit...

from 'A Confederacy of Controversy'
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=2957418&page=1&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

[mcg]

21. self delete

[TahitiNut]

35. It's now "in" to claim veteran status.

Too bad it's not "in" to actually earn it or support the real veterans trying to get healthy again. :shrug:

[tblue]

2. So they're offended. Too bad. And the 2000 election showed that part of 'Southern heritage'

is still current. If they're so offended, they should work on restoring the unlawfully purged people's voting rights.

[Neoma]

3. Haha.

That's awesome.

[HuffleClaw]

4. a 'veteran's group' ???!!!!

'sons of confederate veterans' ????

and we KNOW what they mean when they say 'confederate HERITAGE'


fucking loons.

[Skittles]

6. I despise that "we are proud of our heritage" bullshit

it is one sickening heritage

[The Wizard]

8. For some people

slavery is a traditional value. Just because something is traditional doesn't make it right or moral.
Sons of Confederate Veterans sounds like a euphamism for the Klan or the Konservative Kristian Kouncil.

[cgrindley]

9. The Confederate Flag is Inherently Racist

and if anyone's offended by the proper way to hang a Confederate flag, good. The thing is nothing but a symbol of evil. This artist sounds pretty cool to me. It's a great and simple statement. Obviously, it works.

[malaise]

11. Oh the irony

K & R.

[TreasonousBastard]

12. Oh, fuck 'em. I'll offend the sorry-assed redneck assholes by...

hanging swastika flag with it and pissing on them both.

Strange fruit, indeed.

[rasputin1952]

26. You beat me to it....

Might as well toss in the Imperial Japanese Rising Sun flag as well..


Great minds think alike.

[KG]

13. if the flag is about heritage, why haven't they complained when avowed hate groups have used it as

a symbol?

[petronius]

27. That is an excellent question - I'd certainly like to hear them answer (nt)

[Feron]

28. On the same token...

Why doesn't anyone complain when hate groups use the stars and stripes at their rallies or sew American flag patches onto their robes?!

People love to villianize the CF for being used at hate rallies, but conveniently overlook the fact that their own national flag is being used just as much by the bigots.

It's a shame that the flag is misused, but I wouldn't want legislation impeding upon free speech.

At any rate, I suspect that most Southerners fly the flag because it is the fastest way to get a Yankee's panties in a bunch.

Personally I think that the display is a pathetic attempt at attention whoring and had it been me I wouldn't have said anything that would give the artist any publicity.

[krispos42]

46. I am ashamed when I see my country's flag on white Klan robes

And see racist idiots waving it around.

But it's a free country. Grit your teeth.

Unlike the Confederate flag, the Stars and Stripes has stood FOR freedom, liberty, and justice for all. The Confederate flag specifically puts the rights of states above human rights, and explicitly gives some people more rights than others.

[Clark2008]

31. Well, because this isn't the Confederate flag.

That's the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia - you know, that "blue" area in VA?

This is the Confederate Flag:



Sigh...

[krispos42]

45. Incorrect. It's really the Confederate Naval Jack

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_Flag

Actually, it lookes like the Confederate Battle Flag stretched to conventional flag dimensions, or the Confederate Naval Jack with a more conventional dark blue 'X'. It's probably idealized, really. The light blue looks kinda weird. I like the earthy reds and blues, myself.

[maine_raptor]

14. Ya know, this just horns-waggles me.

That is that the folks that get all teary-eyed over the Stars and Bars, are usually the ones most energetic in yelling "commie pinko hippie" at those of us the might be even the slightest bit opposed to Bush, his war or anything else to do with Far Right thingmies.

Yet they get all misty and "don't touch my flag" over something that is THE Symbol of a rebellion against the United States. They worship a Traitor's Flag and then say that WE are un-American?


It just horns-waggles me.

[July]

24. The article I read on this (NYT) said that display of the flag is

permitted there for "patriotic display." As you point out, what the hell is "patriotic" about displaying a flag representing an attempt to break up the U.S.? Are the "patriots" who display this flag Americans or Confederates?

[Tyler Durden]

15. I just call it "the symbol of the Klan" and leave it at that.

I don't dignify any symbols of racist pigs. The South should grow the conjones to disavow any more use of "the Third Confederate Naval Ensign" as "The Confederate Flag" and stop using the "Heritage Card" to justify the rebellion as anything more than a painful era of national peril.

[C_eh_N_eh_D_eh]

16. AfroProvocations?

Was that name Sims' idea, or the museum's? Because it sounds like code for "uppity n***er".

[in_cog_ni_to]

17. "The Proper Way to Hang a Confederate Flag" GREAT title.

"The ONLY way to hang a Confederate Flag" would work for me too.;)

This is an affront to Southern Heritage? Why? Where are the Sons of Confederate Veterans when the KKK flies their precious flag? Where are they when the Aryan Nation flies their flag? I recall the Minuteman members showing up at the AZ border with their precious Confedrate flag flying high. IMCPO, THOSE organizations should be an 'affront' they should address. ANY AA citizen has every right to be offended by that flag.

:thumbsup: to John Sims!

[Clark2008]

32. It's an affront to those of us who KNOW Southern heritage.

That ain't the Confederate flag.

:)

[kdpeters]

18. These nimrods can't it both ways. They wanted this. They got it. They can suck on it.

These people don't own the South. They share it with the rest of us, we have made it clear what the confederate battle emblem symbolizes to us. If they insist on keeping this emblem displayed as a public representation of all of us, on our flags and public grounds, dismissing the clear and vocal protests of their neighbors, then they can just STFU with their protests when we display this emblem as the symbol it represents to us in a freely expressed work of art.

I don't want to hear their hypocritical crap.

[WernhamHogg]

19. Good for the museum for standing it's ground

If these were Germans who insisted that a swastika represented their "German heritage" they would (correctly) be labeled as bigots.

[TahitiNut]

22. But, but, but ... I thought DU established that something is inherently 'offensive' ...

... if, in fact, self-proclaimed 'representatives' of a group stated they were offended?


:hide:

[Toots]

23. Sometimes being offensive is not a bad thing...

Especially if you offend with the truth. The truth is often quite offensive but still needs to be heard..

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Duncan Grant]

39. If that's the kind of friend you are to gay people, why bother?

Honestly, thanks for nothin'.

[NMMNG]

40. If you can't tell the difference between GLBT people

and a group of bigots, I really have no hope for you.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Duncan Grant]

49. Let me say this again but in a way that doesn't get deleted.

I think it's unfair to compare the gay people here who objected to the Super Bowl Snickers commercial with a bunch of confederate apologists. The "self-proclaimed 'representatives'" that you cite weren't arguing for gay superiority or some romanticized notion of gay heritage/history.

The difference is important. To say otherwise just trivializes gay lives; especially the gay people here at DU.

[Jonathan50]

25. That's not the flag of the Confederate States of America

The Confederate States of America had three separate national flags, none of which were the flag hanging from the gallows.

http://www.dixieresearch.com/confederate_flags.htm

The first National Confederate Flag: (the Stars and the Bars)



The second National Confederate Flag:



The third National Confederate Flag:



The flag that is on the gallows is a Confederate Battle Flag, not a flag of the Confederate States of America.

Confederate Battle Flag:

[ohio2007]

29. Don't let facts get in the way of a hot button issue.

Most people would think the flags of Cuba and Puerto Rico are posted in your response.

LOL

[Clark2008]

33. THANK YOU!!!

:hug:

[in_cog_ni_to]

37. Actually, it's the The Confederate Navy Jack, 1863-1865.. The Battle flag is square.

The battle flag of the Confederacy is square, of various sizes for the different branches of the service: 48 inches square for the infantry, 36 inches for the artillery, and 30 inches for the cavalry. It was used in battle beginning in December 1861 until the fall of the Confederacy. The blue color on the Saltire in the battle flag was navy blue, as opposed to the much lighter blue of the Naval Jack.



The point IS...


it represents SLAVERY in the minds of AAs and rightly so. We all know that flag is used by the KKK, the Aryan Nation and the Minutemen racists. It was used during the Civil Rights Movement by the racists fighting against equal rights for blacks and you know very well what it means to the AA community. If it's not the 'official' Confederate flag, why are the Sons of the Confederate Vets so upset over this art? If it's not the 'official' Confederate flag, why did South Carolina choose to fly it over their State House?

Aryan Nations (AN) is an international anti-Semitic white supremacist, Neo-Nazi organization. It was founded in the 1970s by Richard Girnt Butler as an arm of the Christian Identity group Church of Jesus Christ-Christian.

Ku Klux Klan (KKK) is the name of several past and present fraternal organizations in the United States that have advocated white supremacy, antisemitism, racism, anti-Catholicism, homophobia, and nativism. These organizations have often used terrorism, violence and acts of intimidation such as cross burning to oppress African Americans and other groups.





The Confederate Navy Jack:


The Confederate Navy Jack, 1863-1865

What is usually called "The Confederate Flag" or "The Confederate Battle Flag" (actually the Navy Jack as explained above) is still a widely recognized symbol. The display of the flag is a controversial and very emotional issue, generally because of disagreement over exactly what it symbolizes. To many people in the US South it is a symbol of their heritage and pride in their ancestors who held out during years of war under terrible odds and sacrifice. Others see it as a symbol of the institution of slavery, or of the Jim Crow laws (1876-1965, after the Civil War) established by the many Southern states enforcing racial segregation within their borders for almost a century later, or even as a symbol of rebellion against the United States government. As a result, there have been numerous political fights over the use of the Confederate Navy Jack in Southern state flags, at sporting events at Southern universities, and on public buildings. According to Civil War historian and southerner Shelby Foote, the flag traditionally represented the south's resistance to northern political dominance generally; it became racially charged during the Civil Rights Movement, when protecting segregation suddenly became the focal point of that resistance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

edited bad link

[Clark2008]

30. For the millioneth time: this might be offensive if that was the

Confederate Flag.

But it's not.

All you people above and the "artist" need a good dose of history.

This is the battle flag of Northern Virginia.

The Confederate flag, and its ensuing heritage, aren't a part of this piece.

I, for one, don't let inantimate objects rile me up. It's a piece of cloth - and the wrong piece of cloth, at that.

[HRC_in_08]

44. its A confederate flag, and A symbol of hate...

that other flag you reference is too.

[BlooInBloo]

38. Anything that pisses off confederate flag bigots, and their defenders...

... in this thread, and elsewhere, is fine with me.

[in_cog_ni_to]

42. Me too.

It's sickening that it's being defended here. Paper tigers in the form of obscure Confederate flags that NO ONE uses are being tossed about like the Confederate Naval Jack isn't the flag used by the KKK and other RACIST organizations.

Simple question: What flag is used by the KKK, Aryan Nation and the Minutemen to further their racial hatred?

ANSWER: THE CONFEDERATE NAVAL JACK FLAG.

What was the flag the South Carolina legislature chose to fly over their State House?

ANSWER: THE CONFEDERATE NAVAL JACK FLAG.



That looks like the CONFEDERATE NAVAL JACK TO ME...the SAME flag used by the KKK and all the other racist organizations.

If it isn't that important to the South, why do they fight so vociferously against those who want it banned because it's OFFENSIVE????

[BlooInBloo]

43. My favorite bigots/bigot-defenders are the ones who say "it's your fault for...

... being offended by inanimate objects."

:rofl:

DUers slay me.

[Kingshakabobo]

47. Haha! Me too!

:thumbsup: Fuck 'em.

[porphyrian]

48. Waaaah. Tough fucking shit.

I'd like to rewrite history, too, but I don't have that power either. I guess organizations that are proud of having traitors for ancestors will just have to open their own museums so they can put whatever exhibits they want in them.

Edit: Plurality's a bitch.