Just Got Back From D.C.!!

[BayCityProgressive]

Bring the troops home now! :patriot:

my favorite: "George Bush is a terrorist, people of the world have the right to resist!"

[BayCityProgressive]

1. Anyone know how many

people were estimated to be in attendance? It definately wasn't as big as the one in January. I think several factors were involved in this. Many people didn't or couldn't take the time off so shortly after the last march, or couldn't afford it, many people got stuck in the weather, and it was really really cold so many locals who may normally come out, probably didn't...along with the fact everyone would rather get drunk for St Patty's day. There still had to have been tens of thousands though..I would say about 20,000-30,000 maybe? I was surpised by all the pro-war nuts..I would say they had about 2,000 people! They had loveley signs like "peace sucks" and "make peace, kill an Arab". I noticed at the UFPJ protest in January the crowd was for the most part, middle aged or older and lots of religious groups. This was mostly college age people and people under 30 and much more Left leaning.

[NI4NI]

2. Haven't heard a number on Peace marchers yet,

But a PRO-WAR caller on C-Span tried to say that there were 3O,000 demonstrators against the "communists and socialists" peace marchers over at Constitution Park. She was quite aggravated that C-Span didn't cover it.
The C-Span host did not appear to believe her number total in the slightest.
The caller got really upset at the term "PRO-WAR"! She wants herself called "Pro-America"!

"PRO WAR" is what she supports, and when the shoe fits, she has to wear it.

[Smarmie Doofus]

3. No offense... thanks for marching. But.....

... it mystifies me why the organized antiwar movement thinks that marching on Washington is an effective tactic.

How many times do we have to march and see nothing happen before the realization comes: 'This doesn't work; time for another tactic.'

Not to mention the planning ineptitude: mid March ( do the organizers have any idea how *cold* it is in much of the country in mid March?) On St Patrick's Day??

Plus the fact that,no matter what the size of the crowd, the money media will misreport it ( if they report it at all)and give equal play to the prowar nuts on the mall.

I know, it's easy to complain.... but there's gotta be a better way.

[BayCityProgressive]

5. street protests are a way to energize the base

and people in Washington and some news outlets do see us. I agree that Bush doesn't care..and that marches have small effects BUT if it weren't for marches, civil rights never would have passed and Vietnam wouldn't have ended. They DO work..I think some people who are too lazy to go to marches use this to clear their concience. Are there better things we can do? Unfortunately, besides civil disobedience and hitting the vulture capitalists in the pockets where it hurts no. Only throwing a wrench into their profits causes them to change. NOTHING ELSE. Marches on their own can't make huge changes but they are a start and a piece of the movement. Just sending e-mails to representatives who delete them without even reading them doesn't do much good either..but combined with other actions can be effective. I think our biggest flaw is that we think by throwing one party or the other out, the system will change. If we keep the system how it is now, we will have more wars..even if we manage to end this one.

** on edit- If people would rather party and get drunk on St Patty's day than March agaainst the erosion of civil liberties, death of the middle class, illegal occupation and mass murder..that says more about them than about the protest organizers. Americans really are for the most part, vapid creatures. I don't thinkw e can use the excuse that people "just dont understand whats going on" anymore. If people still haven't bothered to educate themselves they never will. They will be happy as long as they have American Idol and their I-Pods. Dead children and homeless people do not matter to them.

[Smarmie Doofus]

6. Interesting points. Here's my take:

>>>street protests are a way to energize the base
Posted by BayCityProgressive


and people in Washington and some news outlets do see us.>>>


Energizing?.... Hard to say. I'll take your word for it.

News outlets: How many will say something like 'the march wasn't as large as some recent.... blah blah blah..."? Suggesting the 'steam' is running out of the antiwar movement when in fact the opposite is true. Whatever news coverage the march gets can cut both ways. Esp if they give "equal time" to a dozen or so homicidal prowar nutniks.

In my experience ( more GLBT marches than antiwar), Washington natives clear out of *town* on nat'l march days. Essentially, NO Washingtonians see or participate in the march. One of the problems of scheduling these things on the weekends.

>>>BUT if it weren't for marches, civil rights never would have passed and Vietnam wouldn't have ended. They DO work..I think some people who are too lazy to go to marches use this to clear their concience.>>>


That was then this is now. It is a completely different world. In those days there were sympathetic media. People were frankly, better educated than they are now. With some help, most people could find Viet Nam on the map. Today, people can't distinguish between EYE-rack and EYE-ran, much less locate the countries geographically.

Lazy: there's a fine line between 'lazy' and "prioritizing". If we thought it would matter, most of us sympathetic non-participants would be down there (DC) lickety split, I suspect. There's other things to consider, however: children,other obligations, logistics,health, age, the fact that one's already participated in three demonstrations against the war, etc.


>>>civil disobedience and hitting the vulture capitalists in the pockets where it hurts no. Only throwing a wrench into their profits causes them to change. NOTHING ELSE.>>>


Civil disobedience: no. It belongs to another time and place.

Economic warfare: Home run with the bases loaded! NOW, yer talkin'. This is something *eveyone* can do, Old, young, tired, not-so-tired, children, no children. Problems: getting national antiwar groups to think in these terms and and of course... the specifics: Who what when where how.

Other thing that occurs to me: adapting the old Anti-VN Mobilization tactic.. or a variation thereof: Local actions on a designated day *nationally*. No school, no work as usual, no buying ( see above). Teach ins... vigils, house parties ( that should go over well in this era), videao screenings,etc.. Moveon does some of this stuff on a small and staggered scale but the impact would be so much more if EVERYONE did it on the same day nationally.

Best things about it:
1. Everyone can participate, anywhere.
2. Impossible for media to ignore it.

[BayCityProgressive]

7. more thoughts

"News outlets: How many will say something like 'the march wasn't as large as some recent.... blah blah blah..."? Suggesting the 'steam' is running out of the antiwar movement when in fact the opposite is true. Whatever news coverage the march gets can cut both ways. Esp if they give "equal time" to a dozen or so homicidal prowar nutniks."

You are right..the media is propaganda at best. It is true that they marginalize the protests, but they marginalize any left-wing movement that becomes successful..they are now doing it to MoveOn.org. We now face what the people of other oppressed countries face..we must work despite the media...they will not give us positive coverage of any action. I agree with you that house parties and vigils are good ideas. I disagree on civil disobedience...sit down strikes for example in rmalls and such places..would hurt business and get our message out. Also, the sit ins at congressional offices got coverage and are a good way to keep their feet over the fire (considering most of them were spawned in hell, I am not sure fire hurts them though). Economic boycotts are also great ideas and the press will SLAM US for it or say they are not fair or successful once they start to catch on. My point is, we need to be active on all fronts because the media will find a way ti discredit them all. We must build our own media with Blogs and independant news sources.

This summer will be very interesting. On May 1st another massive national protest will take place that will eclipse the protests of last year. Businesses and schools will shut down, religious vigils will be held,, and marches will be taken into the streets. The anti-war movement is planning on teaming up with the immigrant rights movement this May 1st to make the protests even bigger. Last year these massive portests caused the GOP congress to shelve some of it's most reactionary bills. They are also organizing another encampment in front of the capitol building..which I think will be very successful in the summer time. In June UFPJ is having an "end apartheid in Palestine" rally in DC, along with many other developments. I have a feeling this is the summer to watch. I think we will be seeing some major people-led movements spring up, especially if the Democrats don't act.

[Smarmie Doofus]

8. Yes... and no.

>>>(considering most of them were spawned in hell, I am not sure fire hurts them though). ...>>>


Good one.


>>>>>Economic boycotts are also great ideas and the press will SLAM US for it or say they are not fair or successful once they start to catch on.>>>>


Cause they *hurt*, most likely.


>>> My point is, we need to be active on all fronts because the media will find a way ti discredit them all. We must build our own media with Blogs and independent news sources.>>>

Agree: we need independent media. Disagree: we need to be active in all ways. I say focus on areas that are likely to produce results.


>>The anti-war movement is planning on teaming up with the immigrant rights movement this May 1st to make the protests even bigger. Last year these massive protests caused the GOP congress to shelve some of it's most reactionary bills. They are also organizing another encampment in front of the capitol building..which I think will be very successful in the summer time. In June UFPJ is having an "end apartheid in Palestine" rally in DC, along with many other developments. I have a feeling this is the summer to watch. I think we will be seeing some major people-led movements spring up, especially if the Democrats don't act.>>>

I'm against this: appending laundry list of other issues ( most of which I agree with) to antiwar agenda. Antiwar should be *antiwar*; idea should be focus the message and attract as much support as possible. The minute you start adding Palestine/Israel, immigration, GLBT, you start to alienate potential supporters who have varied... and sometimes *nuanced* positions on these issues.

I say let's get them to stop them to stop killing people in Iraq, numero uno, then consider the rest of the stuff. (Yes, I know you're gonna say they're all related; in most peoples' minds they are NOT).

[RoBear]

4. In Wichita

We had maybe 100 people. Pro-War counter-protesters: one angry idiot with a sign that read "tree-huggers are gay (although it might have been queer rather than gay)."

How we got from peaceniks to tree-huggers is an interesting speculation, not to mention how the hell that ties in with sexual orientation.

Looks like they're grasping at anything they think might be an insult.

Also had someone who drove past yelling "communist."

What morans...