This Mexican-hating person I'm arguing with

[K8-EEE]

on a music board spouts off that "98.3 percent of violent crime in Riverside CA is perpetuated by Mexicans/Hispanics." WTF, that can't be right. Does anybody know where to look that stuff up? I asked for a source for that stat but none so far.

I just hate it when people MAKE SHIT UP!

[Poll_Blind]

1. 98.3? That number begs for a source, otherwise bah-bah-bullshit. n/t

PB

[leftofthedial]

2. 42.3% of all statistics

are made up on the spot

[donheld]

14. Did you just make that statistic up?

:evilgrin:

[illinoisprogressive]

3. I would google the state and country agencies of that area. It is not right

It is propaganda used to promote fear and hate of the brown skin.

[depakid]

4. This sort of thing must be getting passed around

via e-mails or on AM hate radio, because I just saw someone make a similar claim about a town in Indiana, of all places.

Obviously, it's a load of crap- and I'm not even sure that agencies keep or publish these sorts of demographics.

[w4rma]

5. Yup. I doubt anyone keeps statistics on crimes by ethnicity. Which would be a good thing. (nt)

[silverojo]

17. The Bureau of Justice does

They even keep statistics by gender, as well as race.

[w4rma]

18. I stand corrected. (nt)

[The Straight Story]

6. some base data

http://riversideca.areaconnect.com/crime1.htm

The racial makeup of the city was:

* 59.32% White
* 45.56% White-Non Hispanic
* 38.14% Hispanic or Latino of any race
* 21.00% from other races
* 7.41% African American
* 5.68% Asian
* 5.10% from two or more races.
* 1.09% Native American
* 0.39% Pacific Islander

Gangs and crime


Like many urban areas, Riverside has had its problems with street gangs though the problems are mainly localized to the Eastside and Casa Blanca neighborhoods. On the 2006 list of safest cities in America by Morgan Quinto Press, Riverside scored a middle-of-the-road 209th out of 371 ranked cities of over 75,000 population. Riverside ranked much better than comparable-sized California cities like Oakland (364th), San Bernardino (348th), Stockton (336th), Sacramento (322rd) and Bakersfield (236th).

According to the 2005 FBI crime statistics, there were just 10 murders in the city down from 17 in 2004. Like much of the country, Riverside's crime rate has been steadily dropping since reaching all-time high in the 1970s though the past two years has seen a slight increase in the overall violent crime rate (1,954 crimes in 2005 vs. 1,777 in 2004.) Car thefts and arson are well-above the national average with 2,770 car thefts and 208 arson incidents in 2005 alone.

http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Riverside,_California




and more here:
http://www.city-data.com/city/Riverside-California.html

[jgraz]

10. Those Pacific Islanders look like trouble...

:P

[progdonkey]

7. the extra ".3" is a nice touch...

It just screams "this is a real, precise measurement. Really!" :crazy:

On a serious note, violent crime is disproportionately caused by minorities. Why? Because the poor are disproportionately made up of minorities, and violent crime is disproportionately caused by poor people. And why is that? Because if a poor person wants to steal say a $200 stereo, he has to do it physically/violently, whereas if a rich person (who is most likely white) wants to steal $50 million, he just hires an accountant to engage in creative accounting or a politician to simply sign the money over to him and his friends.

That is, violent crime statistics by class are meaningless, since it's logical that the poor would engage in more violent crime, but what is a greater danger to society? A gang of five latinos who rob 10 people at gunpoint and end up with a sum of $1000, or a gang of 500 politicians and businessmen who rob 200 million people of $500 billion with the stroke of a pen?

[sce56]

13. Or a cabal of election stealing Politicians

Who say they wanna make good things while actually screwing things up and being responsible for the loss of over a TRILLION from the treasury the deaths of more than HALF A MILLION IRAQIS and the DEATH OF OVER THREE THOUSAND OF AMERICAS BEST VOLUNTEERS for the Bush Crime Families bank receipts. NOW THAT IS A MINORITY of the people doing the BIGGEST CRIMES!

[Yavin4]

23. I Have To Disagree with You On One Thing

You said:

"Because if a poor person wants to steal say a $200 stereo, he has to do it physically/violently, whereas if a rich person (who is most likely white) wants to steal $50 million, he just hires an accountant to engage in creative accounting or a politician to simply sign the money over to him and his friends."

Bush and Cheney are rich White guys and they're stealing money in Iraq, and it's pretty violent.

[Bill McBlueState]

26. reminds me of some lyrics from a Woody Guthrie song

"Now as through this world I ramble
I see lots of funny men
Some will rob you with a Six gun
And some with a fountain pen.
But as through your life you travel
As through your life you roam
You won't never see an outlaw
Drive a family from their home."

http://www.geocities.com/Nashville/3448/pretty.html

[Psephos]

8. I doubt that even in Mexico 98.3% of violent crime is committed by Mexicans

Your pal on the music board is bagging and selling manure by the hundredweight.

I dismiss without further explanation any statistic used in a political argument that doesn't come with a citation to the original source. (That goes for arguments from people I agree with as well as for people I don't.)

Peace.

[LittleClarkie]

9. It's those damn illegal Americans

doncha know

[nosmokes]

11. 84.7% of all lies are made by bigoted ugly masturbating freaks that can't

win an argument based on facts.

[Divine Discontent]

12. that's bull

it's impossible that whites & blacks only make up less than 2% of the crime with that many people, if he is right at all, it may be a SPECIFIC sorta crime, like armed robbery. I don't doubt there's a huge amount of crime committed by those from Mexican descent, it's obvious there is, but the point I'd make to him, is get rid of the ignorance, obviously, the rich, well to do Mexicans are down there staying in Mexico, of course a majority of the people that come to the USA illegally (not the legals) are going to be more prone to commit high crimes, so it's bigoted to think "all Mexicans are criminals". It's a tough issue, but I'd just say, "look, I agree with you there's a lot of illegals committing crimes, but your facts are so influenced with hatred of the skin that they can't be taken seriously, and that's a shame".

peace!



www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<-- antibush prodem stickers/shirts

[GreenZoneLT]

15. Hmmm, let's see what we can find. Riverside is really wired.

:google, google:

Well, for one thing, Riverside's crime rate fell 8.5 percent in 2006 compared to 2005. They don't break out their crimes by racial background of the perpetrator, so let's check California.

::google::

Well, they don't break out offenders by racial or ethnic group, which figures, since they haven't been convicted. Let's check the prison population for California.

http://www.nicic.org/Features/StateStats/?State=CA

Middle of the pack in both crime and incarceration rates, there. California's serious crime rate is a gnat's hair higher than the national average at 3,971 incidents per 100,000 population. Three-quarters of a million people in prison, jail, or under court supervision. Wow. About 165k actually locked up.

No racial/ethnic demographics, though. Let's check elsewhere.

http://www.nicic.org/Features/StateStats/?State=CA

Latinos are the largest subgroup at 38 percent of the prison population in California, but blacks continue to have the highest incarceration rate, more than four times that of Latinos. Latinos have a higher incarceration rate than whites, but not significantly higher. White women have a higher incarceration rate than Latino women.

Let's look at Census data, http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06/06065.html.

Riverside County has a slightly higher Latino population than the state at 41 percent to 35 percent. So multiply 38 percent by 117 percent, and you might expect 44.5 percent of crime in Riverside to be committed by "Mexicans/Hispanics." Somewhat lower than the stated 98.3 percent.

So, unless these "Mexican/Hispanic" offenders in Riverside are criminal masterminds that never get caught, your sparring partner has his head up his xenophobic ass.

[silverojo]

16. I don't have the statistics offhand, but I'm sure it's on Google :-)

I don't know about that person's statistic, but it is true that the vast majority of crime committed in the border states IS by illegal aliens (not just Mexicans). I'm sorry, but it's too late and I'm too tired to Google this for you. :(

The reason is that Mexico's corrupt government is helping the Mexican mafia to send their criminals and gangbangers up here, to get even more dinero from the drug trade than they already do.

Even non-violent illegals are frequently guilty of participating in identity-theft crimes, in order to secure employment.

I pity anyone living in Riverside right now. The whole L.A. area is a hotbed of American-hating illegals who believe in "Aztlan" and want to force us "illegal pilgrims" to "go back to Europe". These aren't just the people who come here looking for work...they're the radicals who come here to take back "their" country. Even the most open-minded person can become racist, facing people like that every day, and having their children harrassed in school by Hispanic kids who have been brainwashed into hating Americans of ANY other race. Anyone living in that mess deserves your pity, not an argument. :)

These radicals also make it bad for the people who DO just come here for a better life. That's why Hispanics themselves have started speaking out against them. Here's just one of the organizations of people who have had enough.

Hispanics against illegals
http://www.dontspeakforme.org/

[earth mom]

27. I used to live in So Cal and the gangbanger issue is rarely brought up around DU.

I have no idea why, but I tell ya, they are a HUGE problem and as scary as hell! :scared:

BTW, there are also asian and black gangs too in So Cal and yes, white ones too. The gangbangers are in poor areas and maybe someone could look up the statistics about how it all breaks down racially.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. Until he proves it,

call him on it. I did that and got a guy kicked off a board. He got so mad at me. I just kept bringing it up. Every time he tried to state any 'facts' I asked if he got them from the same source. After a week, he got so mad he railed on me and got kicked off.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

20. That's the PNOOMA tactic. Same thing as in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DniQl4h4ifw

The number-spouting begins rather late in the video. EDIT: it begins around 5:00.

[seabeyond]

21. here it is the rw email be mailed around. dont know if that is in it, didnt read

From the L.A. Times
1. 40% of all workers in L.A. County ( L.A. County has 10.2 million people)
are working for cash and not paying taxes. This was because they are
predominantly illegal immigrants, working without a green card.

2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.
4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien
Mexicans on Medi-Cal, whose births were paid for by taxpayers.

5. Nearly 25% of all inmates in California detention centers
are Mexican nationals here illegally.
6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.
7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles
are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.
8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.
9. 21 radio stations in L.A. are Spanish speaking.
10. In L.A. County 5.1 million people speak English.
3.9 million speak Spanish.
(There are 10.2 million people in L.A. County).
(All the above from the Los Angeles Times)
Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops,
but 29% are on welfare.
Over 70% of the United States' annual population growth
(and over 90% of California , Florida , and New York )
results from immigration.
The cost of immigration to the American taxpayer in 1997 was,
(after subtracting taxes immigrants pay), a NET $70 BILLION/
year, . The lifetime
fiscal impact (taxes paid minus services used) for the average
adult Mexican immigrant is a NEGATIVE number.
29% of inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens.
If they can come to this country to raise Hell and demonstrate by
the thousands, WHY can't they take charge over the corruption
in their own country?
We are a bunch of fools for letting this continue.

THE U.S. VS MEXICO

On February 15, 1998, the U.S. and Mexican soccer teams met at the Los Angeles
Coliseum. The crowd was overwhelmingly pro-Mexican even though most lived
in this country. They booed during the National Anthem and U.S. flags were held
upside down. As the match progressed, supporters of the U.S. team were insulted,
pelted with projectiles, punched and spat upon. Beer and trash were thrown at
the U.S. players before and after the match. The coach of the U.S. team, Steve
Sampson said, "This was the most painful experience I have ever had in this
profession."
Did you know that immigrants from Mexico and other non-European countries
can come to this country and get preferences in jobs, education, and government
contracts. It's called affirmative action or racial privilege. The Emperor of Japan
or the President of Mexico could migrate here and immediately be eligible for
special rights unavailable for Americans of European descent.
Corporate America has signed on to the idea that minorities and third world
immigrants should get special, privileged status. Some examples are Exxon,
Texaco, Merrill Lynch, Boeing, Paine Weber, Starbucks and many more.
DID YOU KNOW?
Did you know .. that Mexico regularly intercedes on the side
of the defense in criminal cases involving Mexican nationals?
Did you know .. that Mexico has NEVER extradited a Mexican
national accused of murder in the U.S. in spite of agreements to do so?
According to the L.A. Times, Orange County , California is home to 275
gangs with 17,000 members, 98% of which are Mexican and Asian.
How's your county doing?
According to a New York Times article dated May 19, 1994, 20 years after
the great influx of legal immigrants from Southeast Asia, 30% are still on
welfare compared to 8% of households nationwide. A Wall Street Journal
editorial dated December 5, 1994 quotes law enforcement officials as stat-
ing that Asian mobsters are the "greatest criminal challenge the country
faces." Not bad for a group that is still under 5% of the population.
Is education important to you? Here are the words of a teacher who spent over 20 years in the Los Angeles School system. "Imagine teachers in classes
containing 30-40 students of widely varying attention spans and motivation,
many of whom aren't fluent in English. Educators seek learning materials
likely to reach the majority of students and that means fewer words and
math problems and more pictures and multicultural references."
WHEN I WAS YOUNG
I remember hearing about the immigrants that came through Ellis Island .
They wanted to learn English. They wanted to breathe free. They wanted
to become Americans. Now, far too many immigrants come here with de-
mands. They demand to be taught in their own language. They demand spe-
cial privileges ... affirmative action. They demand ethnic studies that glorify
their culture.
NOW ..
WHY CAN'T WE SEND THEM HOME
HOW CAN YOU HELP?
Send copies of this letter to at least two other people ...
100 would be even better.

[Bridget Burke]

24. Thanks! That particular bit of trash was posted & debunked--HERE.

Here's the link to DU archives: www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2852487

Here's what the LA times had to say.

Just the Facts--UPDATED
According to the search service Technorati, at least 130 weblogs have recently posted 10 "facts" about immigration, allegedly coming from the L.A. Times. As Readers' Representative Jamie Gold has pointed out, this list, which is being forwarded around the world at lightning speed, is a hoax.

We combed our archives to see whether the paper has indeed written anything like these facts, and found just one Op-ed column — by leading anti-immigration figure Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-Col.) — that comes close to stating what the e-mail hoax claims. Meanwhile, we've tried to assess the veracity of the various statistics from online sources as well as representatives of federal, state, county, and city officials. We'll continue to post more details as we receive them.

http://opinion.latimes.com/immigration/2006/05/according_to_th.html

How sad that these xenophobic fools are still posting rancid pieces of spam. You know how "off" meat gets that iridescent look? And the smell...

[seabeyond]

25. thanks bridget. i trashed, but was good to have your post. sent it to brother

generally i just dont read and delete. but it was good having this information.... really god if you knew my relationship with brother, lol lol.... really good, to be able to send to him. perfect. thanks

[nealmhughes]

22. E-mail him/her back: "Mentiras, mentira, mentira" or else the more blunt

"Chingate pendejon."

[Dora]

28. That's not a percentage, that's a radio station. n/t

[K8-EEE]

29. I Want To Thank EVERYBODY SO MUCH! VERY HELPFUL!

I was absolutely floored by that statement (it was on a message board) but couldn't think of where to look up the stats, this was very helpful!!

She seems to have backed down...not coming up with any source.

[EstimatedProphet]

30. Oh yeah? well 100% of crime on Easter Island is by Easter Islanders!

It's a meaningless statement, even if it were true - which I doubt. What if there were 1 crime? Then 100% of crime would be due to a specific ethnic group. What if an area were all of one ethnic group? Again, all crime would be from one ethnic group. It says nothing but gives people the willies.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

31. When someone quotes a statistic, ask them for proof

The first rule of online engagement is "always, always ask for evidence". It's the quickest way to get them to shut up.