Iraq is a Failure, not a Defeat

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

We went to war with Iraq. I am going to put aside all the questions about should we have gone to war with Iraq. We should not have, but for the purposes of this discussion I will stipulate to all, the stupid right wing talking points: Saddam was a bad man, Saddam had WMD, Saddam gassed his own people, Saddam was a threat to us, Saddam helped Al- Qaida, etc.

Ok, we go to war. We make every mistake it is possible to make. We don't listen to the generals about manpower, we allow looting and all internal security to disintegrate, we don't have a plan for the peace, we don't arm our own people adequately, we torture the citizens of the country we are occupying, we alienate the world, and the end result is we find ourselves in a living hell on earth of our own creation.

In the beginning, IF W and his administration had been even marginally competent, we probably could have actually won this war militarily. But they weren't and we didn't. They tried to fight a war on the cheap. Now, most sane people will tell you we are far beyond the point where Iraq can be settled with a military solution.

So, what does it matter if we get out tomorrow, or next year or the year after that or the year after that? We have FAILED in the original mission due to our own internal hubris and malfeasance. We were not "defeated" by some external enemy we engaged in a legitimate war.

To all those who cannot accept the concept of an American military defeat - could you accept the concept of an American failure of execution?

Because that's what it is. Let's admit that we failed and move forward and try to correct as far as we can the mistakes that this miserable excuse of a President and Congress have made.


(edited to clarify underlying premise)

[mrcheerful]

1. Gates is on face the nation toting the we are a success right now, Iraq is stepping up to the

plate and providing everything they promised. The troops are "buying time" for diplomacy to take place between Iraq government and the US government. Gates is a lying sack of repuke shit.

[npincus]

2. could it be

setting the stage for a declaration of victory? And then we get the f*ck out? (though it won't ever happen on Chimpy's watch).

[mrcheerful]

3. Not sure, sound on my TV cut out right after he said that and didn't come back on until after Gates

left.

[iamahaingttta]

4. "To all those who cannot accept American defeat..."

The problem here is that all of those people are failures. They are failures as men and husbands, failures as parents and people. They are failures as decent human beings and they are aware of this intuitively. They will not accept defeat but they demand failure, because that is all they know. They need to be victims, even if... no, especially if it is of their own hubris. It's a viscious cycle that I do not understand, because I tend to be successful at whatever I choose to do. Of course, I choose to do things that I understand and am qualified to do, and/or I figure out the right way to do it. Those losers just blunder blindly into things assuming that they know it all. They are NOT going to admit failure and the only way to get them out of there is going to be by force.

[MasonJar]

5. Why does anyone watch Face the Nation?

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

6. I made some edits

I think my post now says better what I was trying to say. This kind of came to me today when I was watching DeLay and Perle on MTP and saw how they were trying so hard to sell the same old talking points and pressing for us to stay in Iraq. I kept thinking, why would we? We have screwed it up beyond fixing (at least I think so).

There comes a point when an alcoholic has to admit they are alcoholic, a bankrupt has to admit they are bankrupt, a failure has to be recognized as a failure. Only recognition brings redemption and a future hope of success.